A thread on politics- have some balls and post

[M Malice]

I fear Jason is being radicalised by the YouTube algorithm.

“I hope XXX wins just to see all the YYY cry...” is one of the known pivot points where people are losing sight of what it’s supposed to be about (I.e policy and leadership). Once you get to that point, it’s very easy to tip over the edge.

Left Right, Blue Red, Labor Liberal yada yada yada, all 2 sides of the same coin IMO HK, there are differences but mostly minor, politicians merely tinker around the periphery to entertain the masses, we will always end up where the real power players want us to be in the long run. Not trying to convince anyone of this BTW, it's just the conclusion I have come to after 60 years on this planet.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Left Right, Blue Red, Labor Liberal yada yada yada, all 2 sides of the same coin IMO HK, there are differences but mostly minor, politicians merely tinker around the periphery to entertain the masses, we will always end up where the real power players want us to be in the long run. Not trying to convince anyone of this BTW, it's just the conclusion I have come to after 60 years on this planet.

It’s an easy perception to hold for many people. But that’s not a universal truism.

Yes, Democrat or Republican, it will still be neoliberalism full speed ahead.

But I think there are many minority and socioeconomic groups in America who much more acutely feel the effects of the 2016 election than others.

Being entirely unaffected by an election result is a luxury not everyone is in a position to enjoy.

The votes of the middle class are essential for any party wanting to win office. That is why we feel like there is nothing but tinkering going on on the edges. We are largely left untouched. When you are actually living on those edges however,it feels like much more than tinkering.

 

[M Malice]

It’s an easy perception to hold for many people. But that’s not a universal truism.

Yes, Democrat or Republican, it will still be neoliberalism full speed ahead.

But I think there are many minority and socioeconomic groups in America who much more acutely feel the effects of the 2016 election than others.

Being entirely unaffected by an election result is a luxury not everyone is in a position to enjoy.

The votes of the middle class are essential for any party wanting to win office. That is why we feel like there is nothing but tinkering going on on the edges. We are largely left untouched. When you are actually living on those edges however,it feels like much more than tinkering.

I admit I have led a privileged existence and know little of a life of struggle, my experience here in Australia as a middle class white male is all I can go by.... as well as having empathy for those not so privileged. Add to this Australia being a minuscule guppy in a small pond in the ocean that is global affairs and I am not coming from the most informed first hand experience base to comment on world affairs. Suffice to say that I have almost zero confidence in politicians.

I should probably stick to footy critiquing.

 

[Jivlain]

I cannot understand not being interested in politics. Look to the coronavirus death toll in the US and UK for a case in point.

Australia would absolutely have a similar death toll if not for the fact that, early on in the piece, the collective Premiers and Chief Ministers hadn't clubbed the federal government on the head and taken over.

Anyway, we have escalating inequality, institutions which have pretty much completely rotten through, oligarchy media, an entire generation wiped out by the increasingly-frequent crises capitalism's death throes, the tidal wave of climate change coming at us like a freight train.

Go out and vote for the lesser of two evils. And then dedicate the next 3 years and 364 days afterwards to ruthlessly and relentlessly deselecting, primarying, and generally purging everyone standing in the way of a better option.

 

[pulpdriver]

Jason mp Watching something and forming your own opinion is radical. Be careful.

 

[M Malice]

Jason mp Watching something and forming your own opinion is radical. Be careful.

I'm fine pulp, just think in general politicians and their power is grossly overrated, some come in with good intentions no doubt but they get corrupted by the system, back room deals, benefactors etc. Australia one of the better places as we are relatively inconsequential on a global scale, globally the politicians that rise to the top are mostly mere puppets IMO.

 

[pulpdriver]

 

[Hollow Knight]

Imagine unironically falling for Trump’s incredibly predictable revival of 1968 Nixonian “law and order” dog whistling rhetoric.

 

[pulpdriver]

Imagine unironically condemning violence from the riots after remaing virtually silent or calling them nothing more than peaceful protests, whilst your opponent had constantly condemned them, then suddenly saying the violence has to stop and demanding the same of your opponent, despite him having said the same months ago.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Imagine unironically condemning violence from the riots after remaing virtually silent or calling them nothing more than peaceful protests, whilst your opponent had constantly condemned them, then suddenly saying the violence has to stop and demanding the same of your opponent, despite him having said the same months ago.

I don’t recall Joe Biden claiming that there was no violence happening alongside peaceful protests.

Perhaps some of the violence Joe Biden is also claiming needs to stop includes excessive police force on minorities as well as Trump’s unidentified paramilitary goon squads and radicalised 17 year old suburban ****bois who attend Trump rallies and then show up to protests with machine guns and killing people (collecting their kudos and free water from the police while they are at it).

Anyone with the slightest understanding of the last 60 or so years of American politics could see Trump has been gearing up to play the Nixon 1968 “law and order” dog whistling strategy.

-Push minority groups to breaking point using a militarised police force
- use the extreme actions of a very small section of protesters to brand the entire lot “thugs”
- convince the white middle class that said “thugs” are coming to murder them in their beds
- claim that the current disharmony is a glimpse at life if the other side wins, despite the fact the disharmony is happening under your watch
- campaign on quelling the disorder that you created
- win the election courtesy of the aforementioned scared white people along with the white supremacists who know enough about coded language to understand that when you say “law and order” you really mean “the black problem”.

It’s stunning to me (considering how widely understood and analysed the Nixon strategy has been over the last 50 years) that people are so easily misled into falling for it again. I saw it coming months ago and I am far from the most strategic thinker.

How convenient for Trump the events in Kenosha are, considering the role Wisconsin is set to play in November.

Fool me once... blah blah blah

 

[pulpdriver]

I don’t recall Joe Biden claiming that there was no violence happening alongside peaceful protests.

Perhaps some of the violence Joe Biden is also claiming needs to stop includes excessive police force on minorities as well as Trump’s unidentified paramilitary goon squads and radicalised 17 year old suburban fu**bois who attend Trump rallies and then show up to protests with machine guns and killing people (collecting their kudos and free water from the police while they are at it).

Anyone with the slightest understanding of the last 60 or so years of American politics could see Trump has been gearing up to play the Nixon 1968 “law and order” dog whistling strategy.

-Push minority groups to breaking point using a militarised police force
- use the extreme actions of a very small section of protesters to brand the entire lot “thugs”
- convince the white middle class that said “thugs” are coming to murder them in their beds
- claim that the current disharmony is a glimpse at life if the other side wins, despite the fact the disharmony is happening under your watch
- campaign on quelling the disorder that you created
- win the election courtesy of the aforementioned scared white people along with the white supremacists who know enough of your coded language to understand that when you say “law and order” you really mean “the black problem”.

It’s stunning to me (considering how widely understood and analysed the Nixon strategy has been over the last 50 years) that people are so easily misled into falling for it again. I saw it coming months ago and I am far from the most strategic thinker.

How convenient for Trump the events in Kenosha are, considering the role Wisconsin is set to play in November.

Fool me once... blah blah blah

I don’t recall Joe Biden claiming that there was no violence happening alongside peaceful protests.

Maybe you have selective memory. Here's his VP candidate


Maybe Joe and the party had different ideas?

The major issue is these have never been "peaceful protests". They are riots. And violent and have resulted in major destruction of property and numerous murders.

Perhaps some of the violence Joe Biden is also claiming needs to stop includes excessive police force on minorities as well as Trump’s unidentified paramilitary goon squads and radicalised 17 year old suburban fu**bois who attend Trump rallies and then show up to protests with machine guns and killing people (collecting their kudos and free water from the police while they are at it).

What excessive force against criminals? There hasn't been any demonstrated or shown in regards to the motives of these protests. Murder, violence and property destruction had occurred before that 17 year old kid showed up to a recent riot, and him shooting people in self defence isn't going to further your mission of lies and disinformation.
How do you feel about Michael Reinoehl executing a "Trumper" in cold blood in the last few days? Do the actions of one nullify the intentions of the many?

-Push minority groups to breaking point using a militarised police force
The police aren't pushing anyone. What will your scapegoat be for blue cities if they're defunded?
- use the extreme actions of a very small section of protesters to brand the entire lot “thugs”
The extreme actions are widespread and not at all remote and aren't you doing the same with a kid that shot some people in self defence?
- convince the white middle class that said “thugs” are coming to murder them in their beds
Twitter is obviously not a gauge for regular society, but the insinuation that hatred and violence won't or can't come for the middle class in the safe suburbs is dishonest.
- claim that the current disharmony is a glimpse at life if the other side wins, despite the fact the disharmony is happening under your watch
The disharmony is being pushed by the other side.
- campaign on quelling the disorder that you created
He didn't create it.
- win the election courtesy of the aforementioned scared white people along with the white supremacists who know enough of your coded language to understand that when you say “law and order” you really mean “the black problem”.
There is a black problem. To suggest there is not is dishonest or just plain racist. The reasons for why there is a black problem need to be discussed and rectified but neither party is interested in that.

It’s stunning to me (considering how widely understood and analysed the Nixon strategy has been over the last 50 years) that people are so easily misled into falling for it again. I saw it coming months ago and I am far from the most strategic thinker.

The "Nixon strategy" has historically been nothing than a response. How many times has it been utilised to win public favour or an election? If you think it's the sole reason Nixon won you're deluded or possibly ridicously misinformed.

Fool me once... blah blah blah

It really is that easy for people like yourself.

 

[Hollow Knight]

It seems we are both under the impression that the other is hopelessly indoctrinated.

Probably very little to gain from further dialogue.

Justice is a prerequisite for true “law and order”. Without it, it’s just another boot on the throat, this time with a government seal. I’ll leave it there.

 

[pulpdriver]

Usual response when someone finds it too difficult or confronting to answer.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Usual response when someone finds it too difficult or confronting to answer.

Okay mate.

 

[pulpdriver]

Okay mate.

Consider things. Please.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Consider things. Please.

All I got to my previous post was just subjective counter-opinions to my subjective opinions.

What to me was a deluded, radicalised kid showing up at a opposing protest with a gun and bad intentions is to you a innocent victim acting in self defence.

What I see as black victims of disproportionate police violence to you are criminals who deserve whatever they get.

What I see as groups of protesters, the overwhelming majority peaceful, being tainted by the violence destructiveness of a small minority, you see as vice versa.

What I see as a deliberate political strategy of creating a social disease so you can peddle the cure (as perfected by Nixon, Atwater et al) you see as a reasonable response to a problem you believe already exists.

I see Trump as fanning the flames, you see him as extinguishing then.

I don’t think at this point either of us are going to deliver some nugget of insight that is going to magically shatter the other person’s worldview.

If you need to think that the person who delivers the final diatribe without a response somehow wins the day, just have it.

 

[pulpdriver]

All I got to my previous post was just subjective counter-opinions to my subjective opinions.

What to me was a deluded, radicalised kid showing up at a opposing protest with a gun and bad intentions is to you a innocent victim acting in self defence.

What I see as black victims of disproportionate police violence to you are criminals who deserve whatever they get.

What I see as groups of protesters, the overwhelming majority peaceful, being tainted by the violence destructiveness of a small minority, you see as vice versa.

What I see as a deliberate political strategy of creating a social disease so you can peddle the cure (as perfected by Nixon, Atwater et al) you see as a reasonable response to a problem you believe already exists.

I don’t think at this point either of us are going to deliver some nugget of insight that is going to magically shatter the other person’s worldview.

If you need to think that the person who delivers the final diatribe without a response somehow wins the day, just have it.

All I got to my previous post was just subjective counter-opinions to my subjective opinions.
How were they subjective?

What to me was a deluded, radicalised kid showing up at a opposing protest with a gun and bad intentions is to you a innocent victim acting in self defence.
That's what it was.

What I see as black victims of disproportionate police violence to you are criminals who deserve whatever they get.
There is no statistical evidence to suggest African American criminals are treated worse than white. The statistics actually show the exact opposite.


What I see as groups of protesters, the overwhelming majority peaceful, being tainted by the violence destructiveness of a small minority, you see as vice versa.
Should I start posting video evidence of these "overwhelmingly majority peaceful" protestors?

What I see as a deliberate political strategy of creating a social disease so you can peddle the cure (as perfected by Nixon, Atwater et al) you see as a reasonable response to a problem you believe already exists.
What cure am I peddling? What cure is Trump peddling? There is no cure. Amicable relations are the thing being peddled and that is being shit on.

I don’t think at this point either of us are going to deliver some nugget of insight that is going to magically shatter the other person’s worldview.
I know. Yuri Bezmenov was right. It's still worthwhile debating for others.

If you need to think that the person who delivers the final diatribe without a response somehow wins the day, just have it.
I never suggested that. You just avoided the points I raised altogether and that was what I was noting.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Johnny Bananas]

What excessive force against criminals? There hasn't been any demonstrated or shown in regards to the motives of these protests.

I feel like you haven't been watching very closely.

There is a black problem. To suggest there is not is dishonest or just plain racist.

The people who criticise me for making sweeping statements about races are the real racists!

 

[pulpdriver]

I feel like you haven't been watching very closely.
What do you suggest I watch?

The people who criticise me for making sweeping statements about races are the real racists!
I didn't making a sweeping statement. There is a black problem in crime in the USA and I stand by my contention that anyone that avoids this issue is doing so because of political or racial motivations. To actually examine and rectify the issue it must first be acknowledged.

 

[Jivlain]

All I got to my previous post was just subjective counter-opinions to my subjective opinions.
How were they subjective?

What to me was a deluded, radicalised kid showing up at a opposing protest with a gun and bad intentions is to you a innocent victim acting in self defence.
That's what it was.

What I see as black victims of disproportionate police violence to you are criminals who deserve whatever they get.
There is no statistical evidence to suggest African American criminals are treated worse than white. The statistics actually show the exact opposite.


What I see as groups of protesters, the overwhelming majority peaceful, being tainted by the violence destructiveness of a small minority, you see as vice versa.
Should I start posting video evidence of these "overwhelmingly majority peaceful" protestors?

What I see as a deliberate political strategy of creating a social disease so you can peddle the cure (as perfected by Nixon, Atwater et al) you see as a reasonable response to a problem you believe already exists.
What cure am I peddling? What cure is Trump peddling? There is no cure. Amicable relations are the thing being peddled and that is being sh*t on.

I don’t think at this point either of us are going to deliver some nugget of insight that is going to magically shatter the other person’s worldview.
I know. Yuri Bezmenov was right. It's still worthwhile debating for others.

If you need to think that the person who delivers the final diatribe without a response somehow wins the day, just have it.
I never suggested that. You just avoided the points I raised altogether and that was what I was noting.

Here you go, a bunch of videos of violence at protests:

Hundreds long so far.

 

[pulpdriver]

Here you go, a bunch of videos of violence at protests:

Hundreds long so far.

Yeah, cool Here's some violence from a protest.



Are we legitimately going to post things from the riots until it gets deleted? cool

 

[Hollow Knight]

Andy Ngo and milkshakes are my kink.

 

[pulpdriver]

 

[Johnny Bananas]

What do you suggest I watch?

There are hundreds of such videos on Twitter, start by searching for police brutality there.

Here's a nice article by serious journalists that goes into detail about it:

Protests about police brutality are met with wave of police brutality across US

Use of teargas, batons, pepper spray, fists, feet and vehicles against protesters sparks lawsuits and international condemnation

www.theguardian.com

I didn't making a sweeping statement. There is a black problem in crime in the USA and I stand by my contention that anyone that avoids this issue is doing so because of political or racial motivations. To actually examine and rectify the issue it must first be acknowledged.

There's a poverty and deprivation problem first and foremost. I really doubt there's any crime problem amongst well-to-do black people living in well-to-do neighbourhoods.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yep, well that’s the hundreds of thousands of protesters well and truly covered in those couple of videos. I’m convinced, the overwhelming majority are clearly violent monsters.