A thread on politics- have some balls and post

[Elixuh]

 

[martinson]

The same people rule the US whoever gets elected. The Clinton's and Obama were at the core of it conservatives. As is Biden.

The rest is just a sideshow to churn up media hours and stir up either 'side' with fear and loathing.

Trump either has one neuron too many or one too few but I wouldn't think there's any hope of him getting re elected . And if by some miracle he did so what.

I was in California just after his last win and the gays there were genuinely fearful that they would be persecuted and that their lives had changed for the worse forever. As it turned out as the years have rolled by since there has been more achieved in terms of gay rights legally and socially than in the previous few decades.

And so it will be across many issues whoever gets elected in this total circus of a leadup in 2024.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Trump either has one neuron too many or one too few but I wouldn't think there's any hope of him getting re elected . And if by some miracle he did so what.

I reckon he's an absolute certainty to get elected. Doing much better in the polls now than he was this time in 2016, when he was a rank outsider.

Think American democracy is in a fair bit of strife if he gets in again.

 

[martinson]

I reckon he's an absolute certainty to get elected. Doing much better in the polls now than he was this time in 2016, when he was a rank outsider.

Think American democracy is in a fair bit of strife if he gets in again.

Just can't see it . The pile on didn't work in 2016 and even though they've doubled down on that this time he still has many hurdles to face. The conundrum is that as the GOP candidate his base is becoming the downtrodden ,displaced, farmers , low paid workers and blacks. The people the democrats have traditionally urged to come out and vote.

The whole thing is nuts. Anyone but Biden and he wouldn't have any hope.

I still don't see democracy in any strife. Remember it was the Russians last time who had apparently blown up democracy. They'll have him on a tight leash if he gets elected. The real strife is that in the greatest country in the world the 2 candidates out of 350 million people are Trump and Biden . This is puzzling.

 

[western royboy]

I still don't see democracy in any strife. Remember it was the Russians last time who had apparently blown up democracy. They'll have him on a tight leash if he gets elected. The real strife is that in the greatest country in the world the 2 candidates out of 350 million people are Trump and Biden . This is puzzling.

Isn’t the last bit confirmation that Democracy is stuffed?

 

[martinson]

Isn’t the last bit confirmation that Democracy is stuffed?

I don't see democracy in strife.

There have been many hurdles since the advent of Western Democratic Governments. Despite doom and gloom everywhere it still provides the most prosperity overall for its citizens.

Trump and Biden is a sideshow of grotesque proportions. There are still millions of people queuing up to get into the US . Democracy will survive this election like it has everything else. And the dire predictions and fear of what might happen will not eventuate.

I actually think we're entering a new golden age well within the next decade or two.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The conundrum is that as the GOP candidate his base is becoming the downtrodden ,displaced, farmers , low paid workers and blacks. The people the democrats have traditionally urged to come out and vote.

I think this notion is exaggerated. The divide is more urban vs suburban/rural and by level of education. There are downtrodden people in inner cities too and low paid college graduates, but I don't think either of those sub-groups are part of the Trump base.

 

[western royboy]

I don't see democracy in strife.

There have been many hurdles since the advent of Western Democratic Governments. Despite doom and gloom everywhere it still provides the most prosperity overall for its citizens.

Trump and Biden is a sideshow of grotesque proportions. There are still millions of people queuing up to get into the US . Democracy will survive this election like it has everything else. And the dire predictions and fear of what might happen will not eventuate.

I actually think we're entering a new golden age well within the next decade or two.

If pure $$ decides who gets to run…I think you’ve got a problem and a fairly major one

 

[martinson]

If pure $$ decides who gets to run…I think you’ve got a problem and a fairly major one

That's been the case since before Kennedy Snr paid off and cut deals with the mafia to get Jnr over the line.

It's an imperfect system , a complex country with the most powerful economy and likely the most diverse voter base.

Don't think people paying their way to get there has limited its progress but of course some people see it as evil.

Fortunately for a country as remote and vulnerable as we are they exist.

 

[notliondown]

I think democracy is actually in a fair bit of strife to be honest. There is the facade of democracy and then there is actual democracy.

Democracies around the world day by day are taken over by vested interests and lobby groups.

America is prime example. Poll after poll after poll shows voters overwhelmingly want action on gun law... seen either side do it? The religious right are embedded now in the Republican party in a way that would terrify those who wrote the constitution and wanted a separation of church and state. Every deal that is done is done with an eye to those who bankroll the candidate and the party. Why do you think Tik Tok was banned while American media giants like Facebook - the only company charged with selling data - actually dictate policy?

We're on the same path here. With a sensible taxation on oil, coal and gas we wouldn't pay income tax, medicare would be fully funded and education would be free. The people want it but do you see either side rushing to do the will of the voters? Our major parties are bought every day by lobbyists with agendas that more often than not don't line up with public interest. That isn't democracy.

Sure, we're not Russia or China. But every day the notion that "for the people by the people" holds true gets more and more diluted.

Trump broke Amercia's society in half during the first term. His manifesto for the second is worse. His drive for presidential immunity and absolution from the law is terrifying. I promise you he will change the rules if he wins this election. Presidential terms will be out the window. He has a vengeance and an agenda that will change the face of America.

The formation of BRICS and it's currency underline the vulnerability of the US to lead the world, and he's a part of that. The flow on affects of that destablisation could be catastrophic. Ignoring the risks of a Trump victory are the reason he might just win. Certainly thats how his supporters behave.


Oh... and the erosion of LGBTIQ rights across America is unheralded. The erosion of women's rights across America is unheralded. Maybe there had been progress until recently when compared to previous decades but those advances are being wound back at an alarming rate.

Dividing society and praying on difference - be it gender, race, sexuality or religion - is not democracy.

 

[Crimso]

Maybe have a look at this to get an understanding of the republican agenda if/ when re-elected.

Project 2025 | Presidential Transition Project

Presidential Transition Project The 2025 Presidential Transition Project paves the way for an effective conservative Administration based on four pillars.

www.project2025.org

There is also a good wiki article about this project as well, worth reading.

 

[M Malice]

The same people rule the US whoever gets elected. The Clinton's and Obama were at the core of it conservatives. As is Biden.

The rest is just a sideshow to churn up media hours and stir up either 'side' with fear and loathing.

Trump either has one neuron too many or one too few but I wouldn't think there's any hope of him getting re elected . And if by some miracle he did so what.

I was in California just after his last win and the gays there were genuinely fearful that they would be persecuted and that their lives had changed for the worse forever. As it turned out as the years have rolled by since there has been more achieved in terms of gay rights legally and socially than in the previous few decades.

And so it will be across many issues whoever gets elected in this total circus of a leadup in 2024.

Elite post... the bolded is precisely how I see global politics.

 

[M Malice]

It's about time a stop was put to the madness that is gender transition medical intervention for children.

The American College of Pediatricians statement >

We affirm:

1. Sex is a dimorphic, innate trait defined in relation to an organism’s biological role in reproduction. In humans, primary sex determination occurs at fertilization and is directed by a complement of sex determining genes on the X and Y chromosomes. This genetic signature is present in every nucleated somatic cell in the body and is not altered by drugs or surgical interventions.
2. Consideration of these innate differences is critical to the practice of good medicine and to the development of sound public policy for children and adults alike.
3. Gender ideology, the view that sex (male and female) is inadequate and that humans need to be further categorized based on an individual’s thoughts and feelings described as “gender identity” or “gender expression”, does not accommodate the reality of these innate sex differences. This leads to the inaccurate view that children can be born in the wrong body. Gender ideology seeks to affirm thoughts, feelings and beliefs, with puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries that harm healthy bodies, rather than affirm biological reality.
4. Medical decision making should not be based upon an individual’s thoughts and feelings, as in “gender identity” or “gender expression”, but rather should be based upon an individual’s biological sex. Medical decision making should respect biological reality and the dignity of the person by compassionately addressing the whole person.

 

[martinson]

Elite post... the bolded is precisely how I see global politics.

Remember 2016 when Trump was going to create nuclear war and the world would be in mortal danger when he got elected. Then the Russians did it , apparently they were ruling America. Trump was the first Pres in a long time never to drop a bomb on anybody unlike his predecessor who dropped the most.

Now it's a fight for 'democracy' because he bonked a pro and gave her some money to keep it quiet. Kennedy or Clinton anybody ?

Meanwhile from the other side Biden is apparently in diapers and can't remember what day it is.

Well the evidence is becoming reasonably clear that both of the above issues are strangely possible but in reality both of these grotesque candidates are merely convenient figureheads for either side and whoever wins the leading country of the free world will muddle along as it always has , albeit more powerful with the potential collapse of Europe into a smaller factional entity with a struggle between the far right and the far left becoming an evident feature in most jurisdictions.

America's geopolitical policies won't change whoever gets elected and that's the most important factor for Australia.

 

[M Malice]

Remember 2016 when Trump was going to create nuclear war and the world would be in mortal danger when he got elected. Then the Russians did it , apparently they were ruling America. Trump was the first Pres in a long time never to drop a bomb on anybody unlike his predecessor who dropped the most.

Now it's a fight for 'democracy' because he bonked a pro and gave her some money to keep it quiet. Kennedy or Clinton anybody ?

Meanwhile from the other side Biden is apparently in diapers and can't remember what day it is.

Well the evidence is becoming reasonably clear that both of the above issues are strangely possible but in reality both of these grotesque candidates are merely convenient figureheads for either side and whoever wins the leading country of the free world will muddle along as it always has , albeit more powerful with the potential collapse of Europe into a smaller factional entity with a struggle between the far right and the far left becoming an evident feature in most jurisdictions.

America's geopolitical policies won't change whoever gets elected and that's the most important factor for Australia.

Yep the cries of Armageddon and the end of Democracy if Trump gets another term are laughable IMO.... > “The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour”

The Orange man has already had 4 years.

The idea that dementia Joe or buffoon Trump are actually the ones pulling the global financial/military etc strings is nonsensical.

 

[ZoBlitz]

It's about time a stop was put to the madness that is gender transition medical intervention for children.

The American College of Pediatricians statement >

We affirm:

1. Sex is a dimorphic, innate trait defined in relation to an organism’s biological role in reproduction. In humans, primary sex determination occurs at fertilization and is directed by a complement of sex determining genes on the X and Y chromosomes. This genetic signature is present in every nucleated somatic cell in the body and is not altered by drugs or surgical interventions.
2. Consideration of these innate differences is critical to the practice of good medicine and to the development of sound public policy for children and adults alike.
3. Gender ideology, the view that sex (male and female) is inadequate and that humans need to be further categorized based on an individual’s thoughts and feelings described as “gender identity” or “gender expression”, does not accommodate the reality of these innate sex differences. This leads to the inaccurate view that children can be born in the wrong body. Gender ideology seeks to affirm thoughts, feelings and beliefs, with puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries that harm healthy bodies, rather than affirm biological reality.
4. Medical decision making should not be based upon an individual’s thoughts and feelings, as in “gender identity” or “gender expression”, but rather should be based upon an individual’s biological sex. Medical decision making should respect biological reality and the dignity of the person by compassionately addressing the whole person.

Yawn.

The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States, founded in 2002.[1][2] The group advocates against abortion rights and rights for LGBT people. ACPeds promotes conversion therapy. As of 2022, its membership has been reported at about 700 physicians.

The organization's view on the relevance of sexual orientation to parenting differs from the position of the American Academy of Pediatrics, which holds that there is no connection between orientation and the ability to be a good parent and to raise healthy and well-adjusted children. ACPeds has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center for pushing "anti-LGBTQ junk science".[3] A number of mainstream researchers, including the director of the US National Institutes of Health, have accused ACPeds of misusing or mischaracterizing their work to advance ACPeds' political agenda.

So for the non-rubes out there, this is a small anti-LGBT lobby group who try to confuse the marks that there are important by having a professional sounding name. Here's a news story about that particular statement.

 

[M Malice]

Yawn.



So for the non-rubes out there, this is a small anti-LGBT lobby group who try to confuse the marks that there are important by having a professional sounding name. Here's a news story about that particular statement.

So you attack the messenger because it is not from your side of politics and not the actual substance of the statement.

So what in their statement ie "We Affirm" do you disagree with?

I could not care less who the statement comes from, I'm purely looking at the messaging.

IMO there are 2 genders/sexes male and female... also gender affirming/transition medical intervention in children is abhorrent or in it's most extreme cases criminal mutilation.

If you are an adult go for it do whatever the F you like with your own body but leave the children alone.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It's about time a stop was put to the madness that is gender transition medical intervention for children.

I disagree completely. I know multiple people who realised they were transgender from a young age, and forcing them to go through puberty in the wrong body for them is cruel.

The American College of Pediatricians statement

Let's see what Wikipedia has to say about this group:

"The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States, founded in 2002. The group advocates against abortion rights and rights for LGBT people. ACPeds promotes conversion therapy. "

I do not trust any dinosaurs who believe in such a psychologically damaging practice as conversion therapy on what is actually best for the mental health of anyone, let alone children.

We affirm:

1. Sex is a dimorphic, innate trait defined in relation to an organism’s biological role in reproduction. In humans, primary sex determination occurs at fertilization and is directed by a complement of sex determining genes on the X and Y chromosomes. This genetic signature is present in every nucleated somatic cell in the body and is not altered by drugs or surgical interventions.

Chromosomes are much more complex than is being made out here and many anti-trans people want to make out. I recommend reading the following twitter thread as a starting point to learn some of the complexity.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So you attack the messenger because it is not from your side of politics and not the actual substance of the statement.

If they're known for having an inbuilt bias against an entire community, that does factor into pronouncements they make against affirming the identity of a subset of that community.

IMO there are 2 genders/sexes male and female...

You're entitled to your opinion, but not to force it upon others.

also gender affirming/transition medical intervention in children is abhorrent or in it's most extreme cases criminal mutilation.

Why is it abhorrent if the child genuinely wants it? As I said above I know people who realised from a very young age they were transgender, just as most gay people I've met knew or at least suspected they were gay by the time they hit puberty, unless they were so repressed by the homophobic influences around them that they were in denial.

If you are an adult go for it do whatever the F you like with your own body but leave the children alone.

Do you think this is being applied on children who aren't asking for it over a long period of time or something? Who are you to tell a child their feelings are not real? They are as human as any other and their feelings do matter if they continue for long enough.

 

[werdna78]

I don't see democracy in strife.

There have been many hurdles since the advent of Western Democratic Governments. Despite doom and gloom everywhere it still provides the most prosperity overall for its citizens.

Trump and Biden is a sideshow of grotesque proportions. There are still millions of people queuing up to get into the US . Democracy will survive this election like it has everything else. And the dire predictions and fear of what might happen will not eventuate.

I actually think we're entering a new golden age well within the next decade or two.

I believe we will enter a Golden Age shortly too, but IMO there will be first be a major crisis.

 

[ZoBlitz]

So you attack the messenger because it is not from your side of politics and not the actual substance of the statement.

So what in their statement ie "We Affirm" do you disagree with?

I could not care less who the statement comes from, I'm purely looking at the messaging.

IMO there are 2 genders/sexes male and female... also gender affirming/transition medical intervention in children is abhorrent or in it's most extreme cases criminal mutilation.

If you are an adult go for it do whatever the F you like with your own body but leave the children alone.

I know you don't care about who the statement comes from or whether it's scientifically rigorous or not because I can tell from your posting on here that you have no ability to critically analyse media so you just look for sources that back up your weird alt-right views.

At least you're keeping your transphobia to this forum this time rather than clogging up threads on the main board.

 

[martinson]

I know you don't care about who the statement comes from or whether it's scientifically rigorous or not because I can tell from your posting on here that you have no ability to critically analyse media so you just look for sources that back up your weird alt-right views.

At least you're keeping your transphobia to this forum this time rather than clogging up threads on the main board.

M Malice is weird but he's not alt -right I can assure you.

I take it from your post that you imagine yourself to have the ability to critically analyse media seeing you adjudge M Malice to have none but the link you sent seemed to be from a site with views lodged in cement and completely typical of its bias across the broad range of issues canvassed in the articles I read.

It's ridiculous talking about politics with anyone who disagrees with you because there is never any hope of moving them one inch . In fact it seems to infuriate them. This is the massive change I've observed in political discussions particularly over the last decade or so, a likely result of the way political parties and issue based apparatchiks conduct themselves to win media time. Something that's rubbed off on the public. Or at least the ones who voice themselves via SM and the like.

Pretty much an unpleasant experience all round.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I take it from your post that you imagine yourself to have the ability to critically analyse media seeing you adjudge M Malice to have none but the link you sent seemed to be from a site with views lodged in cement and completely typical of its bias across the broad range of issues canvassed in the articles I read.

What bias is that?

It's ridiculous talking about politics with anyone who disagrees with you because there is never any hope of moving them one inch . In fact it seems to infuriate them. This is the massive change I've observed in political discussions particularly over the last decade or so, a likely result of the way political parties and issue based apparatchiks conduct themselves to win media time. Something that's rubbed off on the public. Or at least the ones who voice themselves via SM and the like.

I've many good conversations on the Society, Politics and Religion board, sometimes I changed my mind, sometimes others changed theirs in response to me, sometimes nobody changed. But it happens, and even more common is influencing other people who read it but don't necessarily post. But then I also try not insult people unless they're being insulting, trolling or suffer from severe Dunning-Kruger syndrome. No chance of a good conversation with insults involved.

 

[ZoBlitz]

M Malice is weird but he's not alt -right I can assure you.

I take it from your post that you imagine yourself to have the ability to critically analyse media seeing you adjudge M Malice to have none but the link you sent seemed to be from a site with views lodged in cement and completely typical of its bias across the broad range of issues canvassed in the articles I read.

It's ridiculous talking about politics with anyone who disagrees with you because there is never any hope of moving them one inch . In fact it seems to infuriate them. This is the massive change I've observed in political discussions particularly over the last decade or so, a likely result of the way political parties and issue based apparatchiks conduct themselves to win media time. Something that's rubbed off on the public. Or at least the ones who voice themselves via SM and the like.

Pretty much an unpleasant experience all round.

Eh, I have issues with Wikipedia too but they do link to sources about that particular group that back up the position that there are basically just a hate group masquerading as a legitimate medical organisation.

And political discussions have always been this way just prior to social media there were less opportunities to do it publicly in a way where others can follow.

Anyway, I just wanted to provide some context about that group, I'll leave you all to it.

 

[M Malice]

I disagree completely. I know multiple people who realised they were transgender from a young age, and forcing them to go through puberty in the wrong body for them is cruel.


Let's see what Wikipedia has to say about this group:

"The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States, founded in 2002. The group advocates against abortion rights and rights for LGBT people. ACPeds promotes conversion therapy. "

I do not trust any dinosaurs who believe in such a psychologically damaging practice as conversion therapy on what is actually best for the mental health of anyone, let alone children.

Chromosomes are much more complex than is being made out here and many anti-trans people want to make out. I recommend reading the following twitter thread as a starting point to learn some of the complexity.

You know multiple transgender as in a feeling of being the opposite sex or true physical hermaphrodites?

Would you say the same about a left leaning advocacy groups?