A thread on politics- have some balls and post

[Johnny Bananas]

ir theorists cream over bipolar (post ww2) and unipolar (post soviet union) world orders because of how stable they are

Stability is one of the most overrated things in politics, and geopolitics. It benefits some people, usually those who are already at the top of the pile, be they corporate overlords under capitalism, or government higher-ups under communism. But it doesn't benefit all.

a return to a multipolar system will inevitably bring bring back balance of power politics, leading to blocs forming with serious tension points. early 20th century was the bloodiest period in history as the last true time a multipolar world existed.

Those powers were all very close to each other and couldn't conduct their own distinct spheres of influence. There's no reason a multipolar world would have to end in war these days, especially if they're spread out geographically.

Funnily enough, Trump basically acts this way. He wants to bully neighbours like Mexico into serving US interests, and doesn't give a shit about faraway places like Taiwan that depend greatly on US military power for their survival.

none of that is in australia's best interest. we do not have the capacity to have full autonomy in the international system - we were almost screwed in world war 2 when the british abandoned the pacific. our interests are best served by having a great power patron whose goals align with our own. america at the international level largely accomplishes this.

The world is bigger than just Australia. How has American hegemony worked out for Iraq or Libya?

the fewer great powers there are, the better the systems work

Yeah, if you become their client state and give them all the resources they want. Helps if you're white and English-speaking, too.

 

[martinson]

Stability is one of the most overrated things in politics, and geopolitics. It benefits some people, usually those who are already at the top of the pile, be they corporate overlords under capitalism, or government higher-ups under communism. But it doesn't benefit all.


Those powers were all very close to each other and couldn't conduct their own distinct spheres of influence. There's no reason a multipolar world would have to end in war these days, especially if they're spread out geographically.

Funnily enough, Trump basically acts this way. He wants to bully neighbours like Mexico into serving US interests, and doesn't give a shit about faraway places like Taiwan that depend greatly on US military power for their survival.


The world is bigger than just Australia. How has American hegemony worked out for Iraq or Libya?


Yeah, if you become their client state and give them all the resources they want. Helps if you're white and English-speaking, too.

Johnny Australia is at the end of the world with the best resources ,most space and arguably the best climate ,massively under populated in terms of its breadth and an inability to defend itself. I'm taken aback that anyone can't see the importance the US alliance is to us. Without them we'd face very dangerous consequences. Every AUS. Gov. of each persuasion since WW2 has been brought up to speed on that and acted on it.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Johnny Australia is at the end of the world with the best resources ,most space and arguably the best climate ,massively under populated in terms of its breadth and an inability to defend itself. I'm taken aback that anyone can't see the importance the US alliance is to us. Without them we'd face very dangerous consequences. Every AUS. Gov. of each persuasion since WW2 has been brought up to speed on that and acted on it.

NZ no longer has a US alliance and has an inability to defend itself, so why hasn't it been invaded yet? I'm not arguing for dissolving the US alliance by the way, just that the US being the global policeman and sole superpower has led it into horrible human rights abuses, and its power should not be unlimited.

 

[Elixuh]

NZ no longer has a US alliance and has an inability to defend itself, so why hasn't it been invaded yet? I'm not arguing for dissolving the US alliance by the way, just that the US being the global policeman and sole superpower has led it into horrible human rights abuses, and its power should not be unlimited.

Geographic location.

Land and export value might explain a thing or two as well.

Which country would you prefer be the global policeman? I don't think China or Russia has ever had any human rights issues, have they.

 

[martinson]

The US does a lot wrong I suppose in circumstances where it's hard to do a lot right.

Geopolitical tensions are more complex than they've ever been due to significant numbers of people in traditional Western democracies perceiving their countries to be enemies of the post 2000 values that have become more popular in those countries , and people in the more populated and likely despotically ruled countries having access to phones , information and the prospect of a better life by abandoning the principles on which they've been brought up.

So the major enemies in terms of power and dominance are all facing rebellion of some sort from within. That's before you get to how they grapple with the external pressure to maintain geopolitical footing.

China needs to feed its people. The West needs to maintain its people in the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed. The lesser powers are intricately intertwined in this struggle for power for the elites and enough benefits for their citizens to keep them in line.

Then you have political touchstone issues like the Israeli/Palestinian conflict where everyone has an opinion. But the potential to blow up into wider conflict.

To get to the point being it's just asking too much to expect anyone to have a high moral ground and enact high moral principles.

 

[M Malice]

Every country only considers it's own interests first and foremost in any decision, no country sits above it all with an altruistic global agenda, that is fairyland stuff.

There are no solutions only trade offs.

 

[McIvor]

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Every country only considers it's own interests first and foremost in any decision, no country sits above it all with an altruistic global agenda, that is fairyland stuff.

There are no solutions only trade offs.

Not true, the US puts Israel's interests above its own. Even Trump is not actually America First, he's Israel First, America Second.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Not true, the US puts Israel's interests above its own. Even Trump is not actually America First, he's Israel First, America Second.

Russia gets a podium finish.

 

[p4p1]

These days LBJ would've done it via Twitter DM attached to an impressive dick pic.

EFA

 

[martinson]

Not true, the US puts Israel's interests above its own. Even Trump is not actually America First, he's Israel First, America Second.

Whoa ,steady.

Israel falls and the West is looking at a disastrous scenario . A completely different world that you could not imagine.

That's without any insight or judgement into the current hostilities.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Whoa ,steady.

Israel falls and the West is looking at a disastrous scenario . A completely different world that you could not imagine.

That's without any insight or judgement into the current hostilities.

Please explain. And the serving of Israel's interests goes well beyond simply ensuring their survival. Israel has never faced consequences for its nuclear weapons program.

 

[martinson]

Please explain. And the serving of Israel's interests goes well beyond simply ensuring their survival. Israel has never faced consequences for its nuclear weapons program.

No.

Not going there ,except to say that Israel is crucial for the balance of power in the Middle East and Europe. In fact it's probably the most important patch of turf in the world.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

No.

Not going there ,except to say that Israel is crucial for the balance of power in the Middle East and Europe. In fact it's probably the most important patch of turf in the world.

If you refuse to explain, that's okay, but it isn't very convincing.

As for the long response I made to you last week, would it be something you'd respond to if I chopped it up into multiple posts?

 

[notliondown]

Clearly Occams Razor doesn't get much of a run in American politics (or here at times)...

Instead of looking for conspiracy theories how about looking at facts.

1. Trump is a divisive figure. Some people hate him. Some enough to try and shoot him. Problem solved.
2. The secret service and CIA screwed up. The head has resigned. Problem solved.
3. Despite number 1, it appeared the public were less enamored with a potential 85 year old being president, so the people around him convinced him to resign from his campaign for the good of the country - and of course themselves. Problem solved.
4. The Democratic delegates to the conference can vote for who ever they want. If they chose to they could have voted against Biden even if he was still in the race. Voting for someone else isn't against the rules. Problem solved.
5. Ultimately politicians will do whatever they can to retain or gain power. Why are any of the machinations of that surprising? Problem solved.
6. Harris made the most sense given the voting and fund raising factors - they knew she was already part of the ticket. Anything other than her nomination was going to be shit show. Problem solved.

The dismissal of Harris as a giggling fool has done much to rally the youth, women and independents to get involved. The sheer number of small donations (less than $2900US) to raise nearly $200 odd million in 48 hours should prove that.

TikTok is full of white women calling on other white women to support black women (their words not mine) and in particular Harris, regardless of what their husbands want. Gen Z are calling on others to register and act. Memes are rife with their support of Harris.

I'm not in anyway suggesting Harris is a shoe in, but the game has changed. Those who struggled to park their votes with Biden won't struggle nearly as much with Harris. And her appeal to those disenfranchised with what was the presidential race before shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[lionsrules]

You can check my history I have never been a fan of Trump, the standard of Politician all over the world is mostly atrocious from both sides. The President isn't really the ultimate seat of power anyway.

The only reason I would like to see Trump get back in is to see the laughable Atomic meltdowns from the mega TDS crew who think the world will explode just as it did in his first term.

Yep I want trump in this time.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Yep I want trump in this time.

Trump is also anti-war and pro-crypto/anti-CBDCs, which I like. Some other things not so much.

 

[McIvor]

 

[Johnny Bananas]

President of the US resigning via a SM account and not fronting personally to the nation or the press is up there as the weirdest thing to have occurred in the US democracy. Unheard of.

It's not Guatemala is it ?

Very dangerous precedent set right there.

Given he's come out and made a proper statement now, do you want to revisit this?

 

[lionsrules]

Given he's come out and made a proper statement now, do you want to revisit this?

I don’t think Martinson should. The argument here could be that the dems basically wrote that tweet and posted it with a gun to his head and now that all the news and the world have gone with his resignation he’s now just following orders.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don’t think Martinson should. The argument here could be that the dems basically wrote that tweet and posted it with a gun to his head and now that all the news and the world have gone with his resignation he’s now just following orders.

Maybe he's dead and they're manipulating his corpse like a marionette to make it looks like he's talking.

 

[dlanod]

Maybe he's dead and they're manipulating his corpse like a marionette to make it looks like he's talking.

Weekend at Biden's

 

[M Malice]

I don’t think Martinson should. The argument here could be that the dems basically wrote that tweet and posted it with a gun to his head and now that all the news and the world have gone with his resignation he’s now just following orders.

The Democrat machine spent a couple of years telling everyone that Biden was sharp as a tack/as good as he as ever been when anyone with any observation skills could tell he was cognitively declining, those who fought back on the all is good with Joe narrative were branded conspiracy theorists.

No doubt in the world that Dementia Joe was pushed, the rambling Dementia ridden debate performance meant his decline could not be denied any longer.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Along with the racists, the christo-fascists, the hillbillies and the ultra-rich, another group that Donnie has captured is the "I don't like or trust Trump, but I gotta pwn the libs" demographic.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Along with the racists, the christo-fascists, the hillbillies and the ultra-rich, another group that Donnie has captured is the "I don't like or trust Trump, but I gotta pwn the libs" demographic.

These people fascinate me more than any other group. If the culture war doesn't personally and directly affect them (e.g. they're LGBT+, may need an abortion one day), what do they actually gain from it? A sense of superiority?