A thread on politics- have some balls and post

[Jivlain]

I inferred that he thought he could solve it ,which was more a comment on his ego and the significant political capital he had at the time.

No one's had a stronger political backdrop since , Not Reagan, Clinton ,Obama ,both Bushes ,any of them. As for anyone after that no comment.

Israel's a democratic country surrounded by despots and terrorists whose major lot in life is to kill all Jews. The last time someone wanted to do that no one helped them.

So here we are.

On the sort of peace Kissinger was looking for, a book I would recommend is Vincent Bevin's exemplary The Jakarta Method.

 

[martinson]

On the sort of peace Kissinger was looking for, a book I would recommend is Vincent Bevin's exemplary The Jakarta Method.

I've read it. It's a perspective of complex geopolitical situations that has merit and a narrative. It is a perspective however and there hasn't been an Empire in the history of the world that hasn't looked upon its own needs first and foremost. Or still do.

Kissinger's major problem with the Middle East was that there was extreme pressure to look upon the economic outcomes as a priority and that was what overrode everything he could do. So all this time later we're back behind where we started.

 

[martinson]

But Kissinger aside how many 'peace processes' have we had since then. Literally dozens.

Every US Pres and even the Russians have for the most part genuinely tried.

They're now further apart than they've ever been.

 

[briztoon]

But Kissinger aside how many 'peace processes' have we had since then. Literally dozens.

Every US Pres and even the Russians have for the most part genuinely tried.

They're now further apart than they've ever been.

That’s what happens when they don’t listen to every US Pres and keep stealing more and more land from the Palestinians.

 

[Hollow Knight]

But Kissinger aside how many 'peace processes' have we had since then. Literally dozens.

Every US Pres and even the Russians have for the most part genuinely tried.

They're now further apart than they've ever been.

Just how Bibi likes it.

 

[martinson]

Just how Bibi likes it.

It's just too complex. Hamas is embedded in Palestine. Neighbouring countries on the other side run their own terror organisations in concert.

Netanyahu is tying to buy them another 20 years before he goes. I think the endgame for Israel is likely catastrophic without significant US support. Which could potentially be tenuous if China becomes a much bigger priority.

What happens between Israel and Palestine is just one part of the puzzle.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Israel's a democratic country surrounded by despots and terrorists whose major lot in life is to kill all Jews. The last time someone wanted to do that no one helped them.

So here we are.

Is this genuinely the full context with which you examine the situation… do you really not consider any of the following things relevant?

• the impact of European colonialism in the region
• the fact the Israel project was born out of western anti-semitism and a refusal to accept Jewish migrants before and after WW2
• the world not only standing by and allowing Israel to break agreement after agreement and continuing to expand illegal settlements, but then also arming the IDF to prevent the predictable Palestinian resistance
• Netanyahu’s continual and deliberate efforts to undermine every attempt from the world to push for a two state solution
• Netanyahu achieving the previous agenda by undermining a moderate and comparatively diplomatic Palestinian Authority, and deliberately radicalising the Palestinian people, particularly Gazans, into the arms of Hamas…
• The marriage of convenience between Zionism and American Christian fundamentalism

None of this is relevant? Or did Israel just magically appear out of thin air one day, surrounded by anti-Semitic hordes who want to unilaterally kill them “just because”?

 

[martinson]

Is this genuinely the full context with which you examine the situation… do you really not consider any of the following things relevant?

• the impact of European colonialism in the region
• the fact the Israel project was born out of western anti-semitism and a refusal to accept Jewish migrants after WW2
• the world not only standing by and allowing Israel to break agreement after agreement and continuing to expand illegal settlements, but then also arming the IDF to prevent the predictable Palestinian resistance
• Netanyahu’s continual and deliberate efforts to undermine every attempt from the world to push for a two state solution
• Netanyahu achieving the previous agenda by undermining a moderate and comparatively diplomatic Palestinian Authority, and deliberately radicalising the Palestinian people into the arms of Hamas…
• The marriage of convenience between Zionism and American Christian fundamentalism

None of this is relevant? Or did Israel just magically appear out of thin air one day, surrounded by anti-Semitic hordes who want to unilaterally kill them “just because”?

Yes it is for the most part the context of which I examine the situation because that's where we are now.

Likewise the failure of the Jewish state would be a complete disaster for the West.

As far as why anyone did anything is something historians can debate and I'm sure there are competing perspectives.

If you think colonialism and all the other failures are the overriding evil in all then it's not something I'm interested in arguing about.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yes it is for the most part the context of which I examine the situation because that's where we are now.

Likewise the failure of the Jewish state would be a complete disaster for the West.

As far as why anyone did anything is something historians can debate and I'm sure there are competing perspectives.

If you think colonialism and all the other failures are the overriding evil in all then it's not something I'm interested in arguing about.

I mean… you’re the one that said “it’s incredibly complex” and then in the same breath seemed to condense “where we are” down to a “Democratic country” surrounded by people who want them dead purely because of their religion.

Then you seem to largely dismiss all the other points I raised as mere matters of “historical debate” and that none of them are worth arguing… it’s all coming across as a bit disingenuous. It gives the impression that you have a very set position and that the “complexity” you refer to is convenient shorthand for not having to justify your position.

Do you honestly think Bibi scuttling attempts for a two state solution by undermining Palestinian moderates and empowering unsympathetic extremists like Hamas is just a “matter of perspectives”? Again, feels like a shrug of the shoulder and holding up the “it’s complicated” sign again. Meanwhile, children are dying.

 

[McIvor]

Is this genuinely the full context with which you examine the situation… do you really not consider any of the following things relevant?

• the impact of European colonialism in the region
• the fact the Israel project was born out of western anti-semitism and a refusal to accept Jewish migrants before and after WW2
• the world not only standing by and allowing Israel to break agreement after agreement and continuing to expand illegal settlements, but then also arming the IDF to prevent the predictable Palestinian resistance
• Netanyahu’s continual and deliberate efforts to undermine every attempt from the world to push for a two state solution
• Netanyahu achieving the previous agenda by undermining a moderate and comparatively diplomatic Palestinian Authority, and deliberately radicalising the Palestinian people, particularly Gazans, into the arms of Hamas…
• The marriage of convenience between Zionism and American Christian fundamentalism

None of this is relevant? Or did Israel just magically appear out of thin air one day, surrounded by anti-Semitic hordes who want to unilaterally kill them “just because”?

Great points.

Best people half way around the world then protest and aggressively stop some families looking at a free Xmas exhibit then.

I’ll be sure to make a similar video as this goose and the countless others in support because all of these antics will make a difference particularly stopping the kiddies seeing a Xmas exhibit.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Great points.

Best people half way around the world then protest and aggressively stop some families looking at a free Xmas exhibit then.

Adults are talking mate.

In case you didn’t realise, I staunchly remain a non-participant in discussions about your Quixotic crusade about Myer windows. I responded to a very different and specific point you made. A point that is rapidly appearing to be a throwaway one that you aren’t capable of backing up.