Academies

[Dewnior]

Look, the AFL can choose to change the rules for eligibility or priority access any time they want. The fact that they haven't probably speaks to there being greater complexities to the issue than I can come up with.

At the end of the day, the AFL has left the decision up to the kid.

They haven't changed the rule because they are a bunch of corrupt and lazy campaigners.

It's actually not complex at all. If the family has a football background then there should be no priority access to that kid. Draw a line and say if the father has played 1 AFL game then that player goes into the open pool.

Rather than administrate the academies themselves the AFL choose to delegate the responsibility to the northern academies. And the reason they don't do it themselves is because they know how shit they are at administering anything and that it will cost more if they did. And the northern clubs won't administer the academy if they don't get anything out of it.

 

[HedgeFund]

And in reply to the GWS part. Here is a list of their academy prospects over the years which are pretty much free hits with bids. They've done pretty well as they get these kids on top of their normal draft picks.

Josh Fahey

Canberra, ACT

Pick 42, 2021 National Draft – GIANTS Academy Selection

GIANTS

Tom Green

Canberra, ACT

Pick 10, 2019 National Draft – GIANTS Academy Selection

GIANTS

Nick Shipley

Campbelltown, NSW

Pick 64, 2017 National Draft - GIANTS Academy Selection

GIANTS

Lachlan Tiziani

Albury, NSW

Pick 54, 2016 National Draft - GIANTS Academy Selection

GIANTS

Jeremy Finlayson	Culcairn, NSW	Pick 85, 2014 National Draft - GIANTS Academy selection	GIANTS, Port Adelaide
Jacob Hopper	Leeton-Whitton, NSW	Pick 7, 2015 National Draft - GIANTS Academy Selection	GIANTS
Matthew Kennedy	Collingullie, NSW	Pick 13, 2015 National Draft - GIANTS Academy Selection	GIANTS, Carlton
Harry Himmelberg	Eastlake, ACT	Pick 16, 2015 National Draft - GIANTS Academy Selection	GIANTS
Matthew Flynn	Narrandera, NSW	Pick 41, 2015 National Draft - GIANTS Academy Selection	GIANTS

Jack Steele

Belconnen, ACT

Pick 24, 2014 National Draft - GIANTS Academy Selection

GIANTS, St Kilda

Zac Williams	Narrandera, NSW	Pick 55, 2013 Rookie Draft - GIANTS Academy selection	GIANTS, Carlton
Joe Redfern	Coolamon, NSW	Pick 51, 2013 Rookie Draft - GIANTS Academy Selection	GIANTS
Jake Barrett	Temora, NSW	Pick 97, 2013 National Darft - GIANTS Academy Selection	GIANTS, Brisbane Lions

Williams & Kennedy - Carlton
Flynn - West Coast
Steele - St Kilda
Hopper - Richmond
Finlayson - Port

So over half those Academy guys “gifted” to GWS are now playing for other (mainly Victorian) clubs.

 

[HedgeFund]

They haven't changed the rule because they are a bunch of corrupt and lazy campaigners.

It's actually not complex at all. If the family has a football background then there should be no priority access to that kid. Draw a line and say if the father has played 1 AFL game then that player goes into the open pool.

Rather than administrate the academies themselves the AFL choose to delegate the responsibility to the northern academies. And the reason they don't do it themselves is because they know how s**t they are at administering anything and that it will cost more if they did. And the northern clubs won't administer the academy if they don't get anything out of it.

The AFL is “corrupt and lazy”.

Okay - now I understand your thought process.

 

[TylerDurden]

Hopefully they all want to come through together. Ky Burgoyne has a decision to make. One of Crawf's boys.
Freddie Lewis is already a talent in the junior kids leagues and tracking on a similar trajectory.

 

[Dewnior]

The AFL is “corrupt and lazy”.

Okay - now I understand your thought process.

Sorry, should have said "corrupt and inept". Lazy means they actually have the capability to administer but choose not to.

 

[HedgeFund]

Sorry, should have said "corrupt and inept". Lazy means they actually have the capability to administer but choose not to.

Administer what?

Isn’t it the responsibility of the AFL to grow the game as best it can?

We get to play 12-14 games a year at our home grounds. Another 4 or 5 in our home city.

Is that fair compared to the interstate teams who have to fly every second week to play interstate?

 

[Sixpence]

Hopefully they all want to come through together. Ky Burgoyne has a decision to make. One of Crawf's boys.
Freddie Lewis is already a talent in the junior kids leagues and tracking on a similar trajectory.

At least, Freddie will only have the one choice!

 

[Dewnior]

Administer what?

Isn’t it the responsibility of the AFL to grow the game as best it can?

Administer the f$&king game and they can't even do that properly.

Growth is a secondary and impossible if kids don't want to play the game because of what it's becoming.

 

[HedgeFund]

Administer the f$&king game and they can't even do that properly.

Growth is a secondary and impossible if kids don't want to play the game because of what it's becoming.

I see. “What it’s becoming”

You seem to be pining for the good old VFL zone days of the 70’s and 80’s, and the quality of football that was produced.

There’s YouTube videos you can find to sate your appetite for the joys of 1970s football.

NB: from 2016 to 2023 registered QLD participants increased from 47.2k to 68.3k

In the past 7 years in NSW it was 51.2k up to 71.4k.

I guess that’s a product of what the game has become.

 

[briztoon]

Coopers choice at the end of the day. Wouldn’t be begging for him to choose Hawks, you’d want the kid desperate to play for the club his father is a legend of. When the time comes, we will be in GFs regularly.

Cooper is for the 2026 draft. I'm willing to make a bet you won't be close to making a GF then. Maybe, just maybe, squeaking in to the top 8.

 

[extractasam]

Cooper is for the 2026 draft. I'm willing to make a bet you won't be close to making a GF then. Maybe, just maybe, squeaking in to the top 8.

How about you guys just focus on holding onto 40 point leads and we’ll try make finals in the next couple years

 

[briztoon]

Just going with the players Giants have picked up not including the ones they’ve overlooked there is

Steele, Z. Williams, Finlayson, Hopper, Kennedy, Himmelberg, Flynn, Setterfield, Perryman, Cumming and Green all since 2013.

Plus numerous other academy players that didn’t quite make the cut.

That’s an incredible leg up on the competition. They had so many good players they couldn’t fit them all in. Plus they had their regular draft picks as well.

Non-academy clubs would be lucky to get a haul similar to that over 50 years from f/s.

The bolded is just not true. They either packaged multiple high picks up to get ahead of the academy bid/s, or they traded out multiple players (wanting to go home) to get extra picks to match bids.


As for the rest of the post, it's not that great a leg up when currently 9 of the 11 players you listed are playing for other clubs. Yes their academy is producing just over 1 AFL quality player a year, but multiple clubs in the competition are benefitting from that talent now.

 

[briztoon]

Rather than administrate the academies themselves the AFL choose to delegate the responsibility to the northern academies. And the reason they don't do it themselves is because they know how s**t they are at administering anything and that it will cost more if they did. And the northern clubs won't administer the academy if they don't get anything out of it.

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[briztoon]

I see. “What it’s becoming”

You seem to be pining for the good old VFL zone days of the 70’s and 80’s, and the quality of football that was produced.

There’s YouTube videos you can find to sate your appetite for the joys of 1970s football.

NB: from 2016 to 2023 registered QLD participants increased from 47.2k to 68.3k

In the past 7 years in NSW it was 51.2k up to 71.4k.

I guess that’s a product of what the game has become.

Yeah, AFLW is mostly responsible for the majority of that growth.

 

[extractasam]

The bolded is just not true. They either packaged multiple high picks up to get ahead of the academy bid/s, or they traded out multiple players (wanting to go home) to get extra picks to match bids.


As for the rest of the post, it's not that great a leg up when currently 9 of the 11 players you listed are playing for other clubs. Yes their academy is producing just over 1 AFL quality player a year, but multiple clubs in the competition are benefitting from that talent now.

People are just making rebuttal to your comment about GWS having a non existent talent pipeline. It definitely exists. Keep in mind they busted their own salary cap trying to keep their stars. Hardly the fault of the academy itself

 

[briztoon]

People are just making rebuttal to your comment about GWS having a non existent talent pipeline. It definitely exists. Keep in mind they busted their own salary cap trying to keep their stars. Hardly the fault of the academy itself

The comment was that the Northern academies have a veritable pipeline of top end talent. I said that's not true.

I pointed out that Sydney has had 3 first round draftees from their academies in the last 10 years. Before last years draft, Gold Coast has had 1. Brisbane has had 1 first round draftee. GWS had 3 first round draftees in 2015, then the AFL took the NSW Riverina away from them as a knee jerk reaction, otherwise they have had 1 other first round draftee.

I didn't say that the northern academies aren't producing talent, more pointing out there's more later draftees, than top draftees.

 

[kazzooka]

I know I’m biased but it’s very frustrating. Sons of AFL players players should not be allowed to fall under Academy selection. I love the father son tradition and I would hate seeing the son of a hawthorn legend play for another team it’s just wrong.

Add to that, the southern academies are so watered down that if the player is any good they can’t be drafted by the club whose academy they’ve come out of.

I think we’re going to see more of these situations in the future because afl footballers will inevitably coach at the northern teams. s**t, Northern clubs might even start targeting ex players with promising sons purely to get them into their academies

Not even X players. Couldn't just have a look at who are the best under 15s in Victoria now and hire their parents in some BS job to relocate and the player is theirs. I don't think it's being rigged like that yet. They don't need to with so much talent coming in. I also don't think that those clubs are necessarily doing any rorts for fs players it's just that the player lives there so is as able to join.

However there needs to be at minimum we can stop players that are from football backgrounds. They can join the academy but be ineligible for the bidding system.

 

[kazzooka]

If you play in a state outside of Victoria, you face multiple inherent disadvantages in the competition.

Swings and roundabouts.

Or we could restructure the league to be a truly national competition with a fair fixture, equal travel for all teams, and a rotating grand final location. Might mean the dissolution of 5 of the Victorian teams and the relocation of another.

If you play in a state outside Victoria you have home games. Victorian clubs other than Geelong get very few home games.

 

[briztoon]

If you play in a state outside Victoria you have home games. Victorian clubs other than Geelong get very few home games.

Man, I wish we got half a dozen non home games at the MCG every year.

I'd be even happier if we got an extra 6 non home games at the Gabba every year against other Gabba tennents.

 

[Val Keating]

M

Man, I wish we got half a dozen non home games at the MCG every year.

I'd be even happier if we got an extra 6 non home games at the Gabba every year against other Gabba tennents.

Mate, North play one or two games a year at the G.

 

[kazzooka]

lol at some of your language. Who's portraying the victim now.

Hawks aren't doing anything the hard way. That's the cycle of being a good team, bad team, etc. The better you are, the longer it takes for you to rebuild.

No team can stay at the top forever, and climbing off the bottom is bloody hard. That's the nature of a competition with a salary cap, draft system.

As for North. They CHOSE to go a scorched earth rebuild. And then went cap in hand to the AFL for draft concessions and priority picks.

The AFL is not truely an equitable national competition, with 60% of the competition based in one state, an unequal draw, the grand final locked in to one states major ground for the next 50 years, etc.

The AFL recognises this, and puts in to place systems to balance out the inequities. Otherwise Gold Coast and GWS would be perpetual feeder clubs to Victoria.

And recently we've seen some of the best talent from Victoria tell recruiters they don't want to be drafted out of Victoria. That wasn't fair on West Coast or GWS in 2022 when Harry Sheezel and George Wardlaw said they would prefer to stay in Victoria. Same with Bailey Smith, Archie Perkins and Ben Hobbs in previous drafts.

Haven't seen the AFL stamp down on this.

I've said multiple times on the draft board that I'd like to see a truely fair draft. No Father Sons. No Priority picks. No compensation picks.

But I'd also like to see a truely fair competition where one state's teams don't inherently have advantages over teams from every other state.

It is infuriating when supporters of the old VFL teams believe they have a divine right to every advantage they receive. But it's even more infuriating when they have a whinge about non VFL teams receiving a benefit to counter balance these.

We finished 16th and got pick 5. We should have had pick 3. That has happened every year we've finished low on the ladder due to academies.

Few years back, We had pick 4 pushed down to 5 and chose the best player in Campbell but Sydney who overlooked him matched the bid so we get pick 6 and they got 4 AND 5.

AFL need to force matching to be with a pick in the same round as the bid maximum 10 spots behind. If you don't have one you miss out or have to trade in. If you have made a 1st round selection and don't pick your academy players you lose your rights if they are bid on later in that round. No double dipping.

 

[Val Keating]

This must be weird for you lot, it’s weird for me. I rarely leave the North board, I can’t remember a time that a oppo supporter posted a thread on our board, add to that there’s lions supporters posting, **** knows how they got wind of it.

I probably should have minded my own business and stayed on the north board, but I love the father/son tradition.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

This must be weird for you lot, it’s weird for me. I rarely leave the North board, I can’t remember a time that a oppo supporter posted a thread on our board, add to that there’s lions supporters posting, * knows how they got wind of it.

I probably should have minded my own business and stayed on the north board, but I love the father/son tradition.

It was a good post… I think Briztoon searches for Cooper Hodge posts as he seems to be stuck in very one of them, being hard core.

 

[HedgeFund]

Not even X players. Couldn't just have a look at who are the best under 15s in Victoria now and hire their parents in some BS job to relocate and the player is theirs. I don't think it's being rigged like that yet. They don't need to with so much talent coming in. I also don't think that those clubs are necessarily doing any rorts for fs players it's just that the player lives there so is as able to join.

However there needs to be at minimum we can stop players that are from football backgrounds. They can join the academy but be ineligible for the bidding system.

The fact you’d even consider a club would pick a 14 year old kid and somehow convince that kid’s parents to relocate north…..and they’d be willing to move….and change jobs…..on the speculative notion that their kid might get drafted 4 years later….and…..

That’s some elite level weirdness.

No parent would ever do that, so no club would ever do that. It would be ridiculous.

So I agree - it’s not happening yet. It would never ever happen.

 

[fairdinks]

The comment was that the Northern academies have a veritable pipeline of top end talent. I said that's not true.

I pointed out that Sydney has had 3 first round draftees from their academies in the last 10 years. Before last years draft, Gold Coast has had 1. Brisbane has had 1 first round draftee. GWS had 3 first round draftees in 2015, then the AFL took the NSW Riverina away from them as a knee jerk reaction, otherwise they have had 1 other first round draftee.

I didn't say that the northern academies aren't producing talent, more pointing out there's more later draftees, than top draftees.

First round picks is semantics.
Sydney has 5 academy picks in their top 23 this year. Heaney, Mills, Gulden, Blakey and Campbell. That is a huge leg up in my eyes.
Particularly when they can package picks and get two top 5 picks in a year (Campbell and McDonald)