Nunez
Premium Platinum
I don't disagree, but he was very engaged in the academy. Definitely helped fast track him to become a best 22 player in his first year.
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Academy Watch
- Thread starter irel
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I don't disagree, but he was very engaged in the academy. Definitely helped fast track him to become a best 22 player in his first year.
You're right. Too much success will definitely result in less access. Maybe what's happening right now isn't all that bad.
Right now, the Lions don't really need it FOR THE LIONS.
However, the mandate of the academy is more than just producing draft picks for the Lions to get priority access, its to improve the standard of the local competition, and also to get more kids into the AFL system, whether playing at the Lions or not.
Samson Ryan Noah Cumberland, Oskar Baker, Will Martyn and a few others overlooked by the Lions have made their way into the system, but while the Lions are so strong right now, its a hard list to get onto and not much turnover either.
I question whether they are doing their bit to push the best QLD kids into the system elsewhere, and I wouldn't blame them if they weren't - its a competitive environment and why would they want competing clubs to get better players?
However, I reckon this year there will be several kids undrafted out of Lions academy, and possibly next year also - and all of them are good enough in my view - but they haven't had enough exposure, so if the Lions don't want them, they will be left at the altar. They were a very good u18 side this year, and out of the actual playing team, Gallop looks like he might be only one picked up.
However, the mandate of the academy is more than just producing draft picks for the Lions to get priority access, its to improve the standard of the local competition, and also to get more kids into the AFL system, whether playing at the Lions or not.
Samson Ryan Noah Cumberland, Oskar Baker, Will Martyn and a few others overlooked by the Lions have made their way into the system, but while the Lions are so strong right now, its a hard list to get onto and not much turnover either.
I question whether they are doing their bit to push the best QLD kids into the system elsewhere, and I wouldn't blame them if they weren't - its a competitive environment and why would they want competing clubs to get better players?
However, I reckon this year there will be several kids undrafted out of Lions academy, and possibly next year also - and all of them are good enough in my view - but they haven't had enough exposure, so if the Lions don't want them, they will be left at the altar. They were a very good u18 side this year, and out of the actual playing team, Gallop looks like he might be only one picked up.
The Flying Belgian
Third Tall
The first paragraph kind of answers the question coming out of the second: what more could be done? The Lions play these kids in their VFL side. Seems the age-old problem of Qld footy - out of sight out of mind.
The Flying Belgian
Third Tall
I've heard the Academy described as more of a finishing school. As it stands in Qld footy, no one system seems equipped to do the job on it's own and I think (from the outside looking in anyway) it's nearly impossible to pinpoint any one training institution as being THE reason an Academy kid gets drafted.
Miller1971
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they don't though.
Suns played as many as 10 kids aged 16-17 in their VFL team this year.
The Lions gave games to only 3 x 18 year olds.
Annable for example, is better than all those Suns kids - and he didn't get a VFL opportunity, so its not about quality. (though the Lions will definitely draft him anyway, so it won't matter for him)
The Flying Belgian
Third Tall
Is playing kids that young good for them at that level? Seems a little young.
How many overagers were the Lions playing? Isn't one of the arguments against the academy that they abandon the kids once past draft age?
I think you make a great point in that it is structurally harder for a kid in Qld to get into the AFL system than an equivalently-talented one in Victoria simply due to lack of exposure / lack of access. All 18 teams presumably would have on the ground recruiters in Victoria scouring that market for talent and it only takes one club to see draftable attributes in you to have a shot. Whereas in Qld you've got one shot - if your 'home' academy (Lions or Suns) don't see you as a genuine prospect (for whatever reason) then you're basically done. It's probably another reason why the Marshalls, Ashcrofts (to a lesser extent) and others of the world are also taking the Victorian private school route to double down (or even exponentially increase) their odds of being seen by the right people.
Furthermore, as you point out for competitive reasons it's hard to blame the Lions for not focusing on how to improve/increase the overall number of QLDers in the system as they've got no incentive (indeed possibly a disincentive) to do so. It does make me wonder whether an AFL-run system for all academies (including the spurious 'Next Gen' academies run by clubs in the traditional footy states) wouldn't be a better and fairer system for both the player-athletes and the clubs.
Miller1971
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they abandon the other 50, they keep the topliners around.
eg. this year they have 60-70 kids in the Level 3 program who have commenced training already, and they will train right through until late March together, some missing family holidays, some possibly skipping schoolies this week, and none of them attending their club training or playing for their schools. These training sessions will spread from Coorparoo, to Springfield, to Maroochydore, to Zillmere to Nudgee College and probably a few other places in between. The coaches will know what their best 25 looks like by mid Jan, but they will keep the kids coming for 2 more months just to really break them!
then in late march or early april, they will cut ~40 of them, have 3 minute exit interviews and then many of them will never hear from the academy again in their footy life.
I would argue 16 is too young for sure for the VFL (Lombard obviously an exception, and Annable and Uwland exceptions this year) but more just pointing out the difference. I guess the Lions also have a bunch of 22-26 year olds (invariably with some sort of family connection) like Jamison Shea, Euan McPherson, Tahj Abberley, Harry Arnold, Kyle Dunkley, Lochie Rayner and so on, which is what keeps the overage and under age academy kids out of the VFL
eg. this year they have 60-70 kids in the Level 3 program who have commenced training already, and they will train right through until late March together, some missing family holidays, some possibly skipping schoolies this week, and none of them attending their club training or playing for their schools. These training sessions will spread from Coorparoo, to Springfield, to Maroochydore, to Zillmere to Nudgee College and probably a few other places in between. The coaches will know what their best 25 looks like by mid Jan, but they will keep the kids coming for 2 more months just to really break them!
then in late march or early april, they will cut ~40 of them, have 3 minute exit interviews and then many of them will never hear from the academy again in their footy life.
I would argue 16 is too young for sure for the VFL (Lombard obviously an exception, and Annable and Uwland exceptions this year) but more just pointing out the difference. I guess the Lions also have a bunch of 22-26 year olds (invariably with some sort of family connection) like Jamison Shea, Euan McPherson, Tahj Abberley, Harry Arnold, Kyle Dunkley, Lochie Rayner and so on, which is what keeps the overage and under age academy kids out of the VFL
Miller1971
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Could be cause they don't rate you, but can also be (like the current case) that their list is incredibly strong, in the middle of a potential dynasty and not much incentive to take a punt on an 18 year old local.
The examples of Ryan, Martyn and Cumberland are also all from years when QLD was one of the only states playing footy, so there were more eyeballs watching them. Oskar Baker is probably the only genuine example from the last 10 years.
Saxon crozier is one that really should have got on an AFL list, Lions didn't quite find room for him and now at ~20 odd he doesn't even play footy.
What’s the difference between playing QAFL seniors or VFL?
All the top academy kids play QAFL seniors at 16/17.
Same thing happens in the SANFL, all the best kids are playing SANFL by 16/17.
The bolded is an extremely damning accusation on the Lions academy system and staff.... what do you mean by break them? Physically and/or mentally?
Miller1971
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Actually, many of them aren't until the last few years.
Plus the SANFL is a vastly superior competition to the QAFL, and probably stronger than VFL as well.
Only the absolute best kids like Sharp are playing SANFL senior footy, doubt there are any others currently.
Aish, Gibbs, Cooney etc were exceptions, not the norm.
Probably a bit of mayo on that. I just mean they keep them coming for a few months, even when they are no chance of making the final cut. They probably think they are doing them a favour, I would argue otherwise.
It can really break their confidence, and their enjoyment of footy.
Rankine, Rozee and Lukosius were all playing seniors at 17 (their bottom age year).
I know Sid Draper and Tyler Welsh played SANFL seniors this year.
There’s probably more that I haven’t heard of.
Just my view, the academy really should be run as a full time program for the Level 3 kids.
And by that I mean as a full season program as part of the CTL.
My belief is a big part of the issues stem from the boys split their season between academy games and their QAFL team.
This appears to be causing angst everywhere.
And by that I mean as a full season program as part of the CTL.
My belief is a big part of the issues stem from the boys split their season between academy games and their QAFL team.
This appears to be causing angst everywhere.
Which if combined with an increase in the draft age by a year would mean the kids aren't conflicted in terms of priorities between footy and school and could really focus on their football for that draft year...given the numbers are overwhelmingly against any single kid making it to the AFL/professional level then severely restricting their capacity to do their best at secondary school is not really in the best long-term interests of the majority of the kids going through this pathway process (even if they themselves don't see it that way).
Draft age is still 18.
Kids born January to June are finished school and can concentrate on the draft.
Kids born July to December are still at school and juggling both.
