Autopsy AFL 2024 Round 7 - Cats v Blues Sat April 27th 4:35pm AEST (MCG)

[carlton_99]

The McKay 50m was an absolute joke. Cripps was closer and chose to stand the mark and McKay was on the move already out of the “zone”. Just zero common sense or game awareness from the umpire especially in a stadium of 85,000 people.

It is unbelievable that there is even a need to debate it. The stand rule, “protected areas”, screaming at a random player who now can’t move a muscle and if he does it’s a certain 50m penalty, is just not footy. Half the time the player is a few metres off where the mark was taken and the player with the ball is allowed to waltz around them before the umpire even thinks about blowing play on.

I was a fan of the rule when it was brought in as it sped up the game but like every change they over umpire it and ruin it.

I make these comments with Hawkins 50m in mind too. Instinctively tries to stop a fast break and gets punished for it. What can you do.

I dislike how inconsistent umpires are with giving warnings about stepping over the mark. They call some players back but then others (i.e. Hewett yesterday) they pin immediately.

 

[Lethal09]

Feels like this year is looking more and more like 2022.

 

[carlton_99]

The McKay 50m was an absolute joke. Cripps was closer and chose to stand the mark and McKay was on the move already out of the “zone”. Just zero common sense or game awareness from the umpire especially in a stadium of 85,000 people.

It is unbelievable that there is even a need to debate it. The stand rule, “protected areas”, screaming at a random player who now can’t move a muscle and if he does it’s a certain 50m penalty, is just not footy. Half the time the player is a few metres off where the mark was taken and the player with the ball is allowed to waltz around them before the umpire even thinks about blowing play on.

I was a fan of the rule when it was brought in as it sped up the game but like every change they over umpire it and ruin it.

I make these comments with Hawkins 50m in mind too. Instinctively tries to stop a fast break and gets punished for it. What can you do.

Is there any evidence the stand rule actually improved scoring?

 

[Hinkley29]

Well you call it sooking I call it factual events. Like the 24 tackles inside 50 but no free kicks.

I didn’t realise holding the ball was a volume based free kick.

How many tackles do you have to lay to get a htb decision? 1 free kick for every 6 tackles sounds about right. They should keep the tackle counter on the scoreboard so the ump will know when it is time to call one.

 

[Hinkley29]

Is there any evidence the stand rule actually improved scoring?

It improved scoring yesterday.

 

[joe444]

Let's move this thread on.

I suggest we should
(a) debate about the umpiring
(b) list Carlton's injuries
(c) exchange personal back-and-forths that just makes the rest of us think, "these two posters seriously need to get out more".

 

[carlton_99]

It improved scoring yesterday.

Lol maybe but generally speaking I haven't seen much of an impact

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Is there any evidence the stand rule actually improved scoring?

I think it has, not by a lot. When it first came in the games certainly sped up.

 

[Hamingja]

Is there any evidence the stand rule actually improved scoring?

Dude. You've got this all wrong. It was brought in to destroy Richmond and it was very successful.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Let's move this thread on.

I suggest we should
(a) debate about the umpiring
(b) list Carlton's injuries
(c) exchange personal back-and-forths that just makes the rest of us think, "these two posters seriously need to get out more".

Man, if we just kicked straight or defended the transition better we win - can’t blame the umpires. Geelong the better side.

Even if we took the ball over the line when Jezza slapped it back in during the first, and Zac Williams went the ball instead of the body on Stengel (both of which resulted in free Geelong goals), we give ourselves a better chance

Lots of little errors, I won’t cop that the umpires had an influence. As a fan you’ve just got to accept when you get beaten by a better side on the day. No point crying about the result.

 

[joe444]

Man, if we just kicked straight or defended the transition better we win - can’t blame the umpires. Geelong the better side.

Even if we took the ball over the line when Jezza slapped it back in during the first, and Zac Williams went the ball instead of the body on Stengel (both of which resulted in free Geelong goals), we give ourselves a better chance

Lots of little errors, I won’t cop that the umpires had an influence. As a fan you’ve just got to accept when you get beaten by a better side on the day. No point crying about the result.

And, in turn, I was remined of (long ago) the game in 2009 when St Kilda and Geelong were 13-0 and they just beat us.

I left thinking, "We've got them covered when it matters." I can totally see how a Carlton fan may think that. The problem, actually, is the injuries. It killed our premiership defence in 2023, and it's making it hard for the Blues in the short term.

If Pittonet could have more influence around the ground, he could turn into a dominant ruckman. Reminded me of a game a decade ago where we were destroyed by this C-grade ruckman who'd been doing nothing for years. Geelong fans were furious that we'd let a hack like "Max Gawn" beat us.

With a bit of luck, these two teams will be measuring up again when it matters.

 

[Generalissimo]

I didn’t realise holding the ball was a volume based free kick.

How many tackles do you have to lay to get a htb decision? 1 free kick for every 6 tackles sounds about right. They should keep the tackle counter on the scoreboard so the ump will know when it is time to call one.

Ironic, given that this was 100% what happened when Blicavs got pinged.

 

[Bagger72]

We've had more than our share of hugely lopsided tackle to HTB ratios this year: we didn't get one from 75 tackles against the Crows IIRC. But that's the way it goes, unfortunately it isn't a rewards program: you don't get to claim a free kick for your fifth tackle. And of course, it only matters when you lose.

Believe what you want to believe. Geelong's only winning because they're kicking goals out of their arse and corrupt officiating. Nothing to do with the 18 premiership players from 2022 who lined up yesterday and handful of key additions that we've brought into the squad since 2022. What would a team like that know about finding a way to win in pressure situations?

Keep complaining about things out of your control. Don't look internally.

I have already stated the defence is disjointed as missing personnel is hampering defence. We have zero players to replace poor performers. I am not bagging the umpires - but the are facts. There were bewildering decisions that's pass of the parcel but some of the decisions were amazing like O Henry's two blatant push in the backs that resulted in goals.

 

[joe444]

I have already stated the defence is disjointed as missing personnel is hampering defence. We have zero players to replace poor performers. I am not bagging the umpires - but the are facts. There were bewildering decisions that's pass of the parcel but some of the decisions were amazing like O Henry's two blatant push in the backs that resulted in goals.

Can we create a new thread just for umpiring where people can write "I clearly stated", "What I said was", "But surely you agree", "You can't deny".
It's pointless.

 

[carlton_99]

And, in turn, I was remined of (long ago) the game in 2009 when St Kilda and Geelong were 13-0 and they just beat us.

I left thinking, "We've got them covered when it matters." I can totally see how a Carlton fan may think that. The problem, actually, is the injuries. It killed our premiership defence in 2023, and it's making it hard for the Blues in the short term.

If Pittonet could have more influence around the ground, he could turn into a dominant ruckman. Reminded me of a game a decade ago where we were destroyed by this C-grade ruckman who'd been doing nothing for years. Geelong fans were furious that we'd let a hack like "Max Gawn" beat us.

With a bit of luck, these two teams will be measuring up again when it matters.

Well both teams play against each other again in 8 weeks. Weird fixturing but by then hopefully both teams have gotten over some injury issues

 

[STPer18]

David King was just getting worked up that all the topics he wanted to rave about midweek, backed up by his Champion Data handbook, were being dismantled before his eyes. 'At source', 'at stoppage', 'at clearance', 'brutal Carlton' - his catch cries all amounted for nought and now he'll have to actually put some work in rather than being fed some arbitary numbers.

 

[carlton_99]

David King was just getting worked up that all the topics he wanted to rave about midweek, backed up by his Champion Data handbook, were being dismantled before his eyes. 'At source', 'at stoppage', 'at clearance', 'brutal Carlton' - his catch cries all amounted for nought and now he'll have to actually put some work in rather than being fed some arbitary numbers.

I have never rated King as an analyst for the same reason. Him and Hoyne from Champion Data make my ears bleed. We won 5 straight and then lost to Adelaide and they wheeled out Hoyne to say we have no turnover/transition game when Pittonet is in the team. Imagine being a so called expert and thinking that a single player being there destroys a team of 22's turnover game. We went on to beat GWS one of the stronger transition teams in the comp and Pitt was again great yesterday against another strong transition team.

 

[bourbons]

I’ll give it a go. Happy to be wrong and would be annoyed if it happened against my team but ump sees Harry stand mark, calls him there, then Cripps stands closer and further into centre - technically should be fifty already - McKay then moves after been told to stand. That’s what the ump saw and acted on. How’d I go?

Pretty solid. Only quibble I'd have is I only heard the 'stand' call once Harry was about 3 metres behind the mark. Possibly he was told to stand earlier and it just wasn't picked up on mic, on first viewing though it kinda seemed like he was punished purely coz the ump issued a very late instruction.

 

[bourbons]

you can't switch and have the new guy standing 5m in board cutting off the inside kick which is what cripps was doing.

True, but he paid the 50 against McKay not Cripps

 

[danster168]

True, but he paid the 50 against McKay not Cripps

yeah, because McKay left because McKay was deemed the player on the mark, not Cripps because Cripps wasn't remotely in the right spot to be considered the man on the mark.

 

[carlton_99]

yeah, because McKay left because McKay was deemed the player on the mark, not Cripps because Cripps wasn't remotely in the right spot to be considered the man on the mark.

All the umpire said was stand so Cripps stood and had his arms up. Then McKay runs away and the umpire starts saying Harry stand then pins him. How was anyone supposed to know who was deemed to be on the mark when all you say is stand. When you add a crowd of 87K umpire just needs to be more clear

 

[danster168]

All the umpire said was stand so Cripps stood and had his arms up. Then McKay runs away and the umpire starts saying Harry stand then pins him. How was anyone supposed to know who was deemed to be on the mark when all you say is stand. When you add a crowd of 87K umpire just needs to be more clear

In the umpires mind Cripps is simply irrelevant to this whole discussion as he simply wasn't remotely close to where the mark was. So whether cripps was standing still and had his arms up was irrelevant. McKay was in the right spot and ran away. its harsh but that's what I think the ump was thinking.

 

[carlton_99]

In the umpires mind Cripps is simply irrelevant to this whole discussion as he simply wasn't remotely close to where the mark was. So whether cripps was standing still and had his arms up was irrelevant. McKay was in the right spot and ran away. its harsh but that's what I think the ump was thinking.

My point is the communication was poor - just use the players name to avoid any confusion. Because if he thought it was McKay why didn't he tell Cripps to clear out. Because isn't there a rule that he can't be within 5m of the man on the mark or something? So he would be infringing himself.

 

[My Tilly]

We have like 13 players on the injury list. The VFL side is severely depleted. We had zero players with AFL games under their belts and maybe half a dozen AFL listed players.
You guys have like 4 on your injured list.
Ideally, we'd have Binns, Carroll, Young, Cowan, Sam Durdin, Fantasia, Cincotta, Cuningham, Marchbank and on some weeks Pitto, Silvagni, one or two of Motlop/Durdin/Owies playing in the VFL.

Binns, Carroll, Young, Cowan, Durdin and Owies were playing AFL. S. Durdin, Fantasia and Cincotta were emergencies.
Teams don't have infinite depth.

Cats still fielded a very young and inexperienced side.
Conway was up against two rucks, one of which is an AFL listed player who stands 7ft tall and they were both destroyed.

O'Sullivan marked everything that came his way in defense. He's played just 4 VFL matches and already looks like a steal at pick 11 in the national draft.
As close to another Harry Taylor as you can get.

 

[danster168]

My point is the communication was poor - just use the players name to avoid any confusion. Because if he thought it was McKay why didn't he tell Cripps to clear out. Because isn't there a rule that he can't be within 5m of the man on the mark or something? So he would be infringing himself.

true. the whole thing was messy. Cripps may not have been within 5m of Mckay? Either way you can't have Cripps standing 5m off the mark, protecting the inboard kick