AFL Conferences & Fixturing

[Stabby McGee]

If you want to do a conference style set up then conference a has teams the finished 1,3,5,7 etc and conference b has 2,4,6,8 etc

It's fair and it rotates. But the AFL will never do it. I mean (gasp!) what if Essendon and Collingwood are in different conferences! No Anzac day $'s

 

[flamingEMBERS]

If you want to do a conference style set up then conference a has teams the finished 1,3,5,7 etc and conference b has 2,4,6,8 etc

It's fair and it rotates. But the AFL will never do it. I mean (gasp!) what if Essendon and Collingwood are in different conferences! No Anzac day $'s

100% a conference only works if it changes each year

 

[GreaterWeStener]

How would you feel if your team made the finals having played double ups against 5 other finalist only to have a team finish above you that played the last 5 teams on the table? Is that fair? Reasonable? Acceptable? What if you finished on equal points? With less than 5% difference?

Sure, its not likely to happen. How about this actual recent scenario? Two finalists finish equal on points having played each other H&A for a home win each. The team with less than 5% better percentage, other double ups were against 11th, 14th, 16th & 18th while the other team doubled up against 2nd, 6th, 8th, 10th. How would you feel if the lower team was yours?

It doesn't matter, the best team will win anyway, is an often heard response. Why so many different finals formats, 5 since 1987, if where who plays when doesn't matter? Why should the top ranked team get an armchair ride? Why should all the top 4 be assured of making it passed the 1st week? In the above case it was the difference between a tough interstate final for your team and a home state one for the other, a team known to struggle interstate. The tighter the competition the less clear the 'best' team will be and when and where you play becomes even more important.

Less often mentioned is the affect of these inequities on rebuilding teams at the other end of the table. A team doubling up bottom half teams will likely finish above a slightly better team that double up against more to 8 teams, leading to draft picks less benefial to moving back up the table.

In the AFL your end of H&A season table posiion dictates your finals ranking and the draft position for non-finals teams. Yet, H&A scheduling is pecisely where the inequities exist, but a single table brining together teams with individual schedules continues to be used for ranking purposes for both finals and draft.

Playing everybody H&A is universally accepted because every team plays essentially the same schedule, so the resulting table can be reasonably bseen as an equitable ranking. VFL actually don't have a strong history of playing all teams H&A it took them 45 years to adjust to going to a 12 team competition playing a 22, rather than 18, game schedule. For most of those seasons only 4/11 (36%) opponents were missed, with the AFL its now 12/17 (70%). The further from the ideal the schedule becomes the more inequitable the schedule appears, and almost certainly is.

Playing a 34 game season isn't practically possible unless you're wanting AFLX, the modern professional game is simply too physically demanding.
Just play everyone once is a common response but that's only realy equitable if everybody has the same home ground. All 17+ suggestions are based on playing everyone once being equitable, but who you play home (GCS) or away (WCE) does make a difference, so the inequity of playing different schedules are still reflected in inacurate table positions, finals and draft rankings.

Only one solution fundamentally addresses 18 different playing schedules, dividing the competition into sections where each team in a section plays the same fixtures in their schedule and each section has its own table for ranking purposes.
- Its just conferences, no more Americanisation. Sections was the term used by the VFL for splitting the teams in two to decide grand finalists at the end of the 19th century, before conferences emerged in US sports.
- What if all the worst teams are in the same section? A Sectional table, combines the the performances of all teams within a section in inter-sectional games for comparing the relative performances of the sections based on the actual on field performances of the teams in each section. If a mathematically significant difference is found then sections, depending on the degree of difference, ranking, and even finals, positions could be lost.

With 18 teams playing 22 rounds, 3 sections with 6 teams in each makes perfect sense. Sectional teams play each other H&A (10 matches) and one half of each of the other sections H (6) and the other A (6), other section teams played alternate each season between H and A. A predetermined rotating sections can help to address some off field in equity, including every team playing every other team at least 5xH and 5xA every 8 seasons.

 

[JackFlash]

One word will kill the idea of "Conferences" MONEY! Conferences is just not the Australian way and will only end up creating more problems then they fix.
Who cares what they do in the rest of the world? Our problem is we have too many teams and it's complicated matters more than the AFL visulaised, they are still using a 12 team fixture structure for an 18 team competition. They will never just play 17 games, they certainly won't play 34 and they won't go conferences because they have certain fixtures set in stone to be played twice yearly. The AFL will more than likely expand to 20 teams rather than reduce and go to a "sustainbale and workable" 14 team competition which will risk losing fan base. The H&A season is just a qualifying period, it should place you in a good position for finals but as we saw last year and so many times before, it's who is healthiest and on a roll at the right time of year who ends up winning the Grand Final. It's hard winning premierships no matter where you finish.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

How would you feel if your team made the finals having played double ups against 5 other finalist only to have a team finish above you that played the last 5 teams on the table? Is that fair? Reasonable? Acceptable? What if you finished on equal points? With less than 5% difference?

Sure, its not likely to happen. How about this actual recent scenario? Two finalists finish equal on points having played each other H&A for a home win each. The team with less than 5% better percentage, other double ups were against 11th, 14th, 16th & 18th while the other team doubled up against 2nd, 6th, 8th, 10th. How would you feel if the lower team was yours?

It doesn't matter, the best team will win anyway, is an often heard response. Why so many different finals formats, 5 since 1987, if where who plays when doesn't matter? Why should the top ranked team get an armchair ride? Why should all the top 4 be assured of making it passed the 1st week? In the above case it was the difference between a tough interstate final for your team and a home state one for the other, a team known to struggle interstate. The tighter the competition the less clear the 'best' team will be and when and where you play becomes even more important.

Less often mentioned is the affect of these inequities on rebuilding teams at the other end of the table. A team doubling up bottom half teams will likely finish above a slightly better team that double up against more to 8 teams, leading to draft picks less benefial to moving back up the table.

In the AFL your end of H&A season table posiion dictates your finals ranking and the draft position for non-finals teams. Yet, H&A scheduling is pecisely where the inequities exist, but a single table brining together teams with individual schedules continues to be used for ranking purposes for both finals and draft.

Playing everybody H&A is universally accepted because every team plays essentially the same schedule, so the resulting table can be reasonably bseen as an equitable ranking. VFL actually don't have a strong history of playing all teams H&A it took them 45 years to adjust to going to a 12 team competition playing a 22, rather than 18, game schedule. For most of those seasons only 4/11 (36%) opponents were missed, with the AFL its now 12/17 (70%). The further from the ideal the schedule becomes the more inequitable the schedule appears, and almost certainly is.

Playing a 34 game season isn't practically possible unless you're wanting AFLX, the modern professional game is simply too physically demanding.
Just play everyone once is a common response but that's only realy equitable if everybody has the same home ground. All 17+ suggestions are based on playing everyone once being equitable, but who you play home (GCS) or away (WCE) does make a difference, so the inequity of playing different schedules are still reflected in inacurate table positions, finals and draft rankings.

Only one solution fundamentally addresses 18 different playing schedules, dividing the competition into sections where each team in a section plays the same fixtures in their schedule and each section has its own table for ranking purposes.
- Its just conferences, no more Americanisation. Sections was the term used by the VFL for splitting the teams in two to decide grand finalists at the end of the 19th century, before conferences emerged in US sports.
- What if all the worst teams are in the same section? A Sectional table, combines the the performances of all teams within a section in inter-sectional games for comparing the relative performances of the sections based on the actual on field performances of the teams in each section. If a mathematically significant difference is found then sections, depending on the degree of difference, ranking, and even finals, positions could be lost.

With 18 teams playing 22 rounds, 3 sections with 6 teams in each makes perfect sense. Sectional teams play each other H&A (10 matches) and one half of each of the other sections H (6) and the other A (6), other section teams played alternate each season between H and A. A predetermined rotating sections can help to address some off field in equity, including every team playing every other team at least 5xH and 5xA every 8 seasons.

I’m big on this idea of three “sections/conferences”, however I’d go about changing them each year based on the overall win loss ladder.

“Sections” to be named after three former AFL Players

1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16
2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17
3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18

As you’ve said play each team in your “section” home and away - 10 games +
3 home and 3 away from each of the other two
=
22 games.

Perfect, it’s kind of what they try and do now by it removes the afls/broadcasters attempt at manipulating the fixture. It’s set in stone. Something I like about the nfl is that You know who you play next season as soon as it’s over.

Finals I’d keep the exact same, by overall ladder position except that each winner of the sections should be in the finals. So 8th gets bumped if the winner of one of the sections finishes 9th. Could maybe extend that the lowest a section winner finishes is 6th so they’re guaranteed a home final.


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[GreaterWeStener]

I’m big on this idea of three “sections/conferences”, however I’d go about changing them each year based on the overall win loss ladder.

“Sections” to be named after three former AFL Players

1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16
2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17
3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18

As you’ve said play each team in your “section” home and away - 10 games +
3 home and 3 away from each of the other two
=
22 games.

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

This would make alternating non-sectional teams H then A across seasons much more difficult and doesn't ensure teams play each other at least 5xA and 5xH every eight seasons, and the off-field equity benefits that flow from doing so.

Something I like about the nfl is that You know who you play next season as soon as it’s over.
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Under the system I suggest you know years in advance.

Finals I’d keep the exact same, by overall ladder position except that each winner of the sections should be in the finals. So 8th gets bumped if the winner of one of the sections finishes 9th. Could maybe extend that the lowest a section winner finishes is 6th so they’re guaranteed a home final.
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Moving to multiple tables is fundamental to my suggestion, because the standard single table is precisely where inequity and the resulting in accurate rankings, finals match ups and draft order. Any suggestion of a need to ensure section winners are in finals is a result of this.

The suggested combined Sectional table is designed to assess differences in strength between sections based directly on inter-section on-field performances .

 

[FootyJunkie]

I like the 3 divisions of 6 teams each.

Victoria: VIC x 6
NorthEast: BRI, GCS, SYD, GWS, VIC x 2
SouthWest: ADE, PA, WCE, FRE, VIC x 2

Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney and GWS are permanently fixed into the NorthEast division.
Adelaide, Port Adelaide, West Coast and Fremantle are permanently fixed into the SouthWest division.
Victorian sides either compete in the Victoria division or in one of the two Non-Victorian divisions and are rotated in and out per season.

22 games = 10 division games + 12 inter-division games

Division Games:

Victoria Division:
- each side gets 10 division games in which all 10 are home state games
NorthEast and SouthWest Divisions:
- each side gets 10 division games in which 6 are home state games (5 home games plus 1 away game derby).

Inter-Division Games:

Victoria Division:

Victorian Tier-A
- 1st and 2nd sides in the Victoria division from the previous year stay in the Victoria division.
- They play ALL 12 inter-division games away, but 4 are home state games against the 4 Victorian Tier-C sides in the Non-Vic divisions.

Victorian Tier-B
- The 4 Victorian sides that were in the Non-Vic Divisions the previous year, come back to the Victoria division.
- They play 1 home state game against a Non-Victorian team from the division that they were NOT apart of the previous year that they had played
against away.
Ex. If Carlton and Collingwood were in the NorthEast division together last year and they both played West Coast and Adelaide away
(who are both in the SouthWest division), then they play one of those opponents as their home Inter-Division game.
Could determine which match ups take place by breaking the longest match-up drought out of the 4 possibilities between Victorian sides hosting the
Non-Victorian sides in question.
- They play 11 inter-division games away, but 4 are home state games against the 4 Victorian Tier-C sides in the Non-Vic divisions.
- They play a total of 5 home state games.

NorthEast and SouthWest Divisions

Non-Victorian Tier-A
- 1 side each from QLD, NSW, SA and WA.
- They all play the 2 Victorian Tier-A sides at home - 2 home state games
- They play all 4 Victorian Tier-B sides at home - 4 home state games
- They all play split home and away games against teams in the other Non-Victorian division - 3 home state games
- They play a total of 9 home state games.
- They switch to being Non-Victorian Tier-B the following season.

Non-Victorian Tier-B
- 1 side each from QLD, NSW, SA and WA.
- They all play the 2 Victorian Tier-A sides at home - 2 home state games
- They play 3 Victorian Tier-B sides at home, with 1 game away in Victoria - 3 home state games
- They all play split home and away games against teams in the other Non-Victorian division - 3 home state games
- They play a total of 8 home state games.
- They switch to being Non-Victorian Tier-A the following season.

Victorian Tier-C
- 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th sides in the Victoria division from the previous year are paired up and play in the Non-Victorian divisions.
The pairs can be determined by breaking the longest droughts of Victorian sides appearing in certain Non-Victorian division with big Victorian rivals
paired together to break any deadlocks.
- They play all teams in the Victoria division once for 6 home state games and 4 home state games against sides in the other Non-Victorian division,
which includes 1 away game against a Victorian side in that Non-Victorian division, for a total of 10 home state games.

Grand Totals

Victorian Tier-A (2): 10 home state Division games + 4 home state Inter-Division games = 14 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Victorian Tier-B (4): 10 home state Division games + 5 home state Inter-Division games = 15 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Victorian Tier-C (4): 6 home state Division games + 10 home state Inter-Division games = 16 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Non-Victorian Tier-A (4): 6 home state Division games + 9 home state Inter-Division games = 15 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Non-Victorian Tier-B (4): 6 home state Division games + 8 home state Inter-Division games = 14 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES

Finals

Division Winners are 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
Best Non-Division Winner is 4th.
Next best 4 regardless of divisions are Elimination Finalists.

Finals as we have now, except that 4th always plays away in a Prelim if it is against 2nd/3rd.

 

[telsor]

I like the 3 divisions of 6 teams each.

Victoria: VIC x 6
NorthEast: BRI, GCS, SYD, GWS, VIC x 2
SouthWest: ADE, PA, WCE, FRE, VIC x 2

Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney and GWS are permanently fixed into the NorthEast division.
Adelaide, Port Adelaide, West Coast and Fremantle are permanently fixed into the SouthWest division.
Victorian sides either compete in the Victoria division or in one of the two Non-Victorian divisions and are rotated in and out per season.

22 games = 10 division games + 12 inter-division games

Division Games:

Victoria Division:
- each side gets 10 division games in which all 10 are home state games
NorthEast and SouthWest Divisions:
- each side gets 10 division games in which 6 are home state games (5 home games plus 1 away game derby).

Inter-Division Games:

Victoria Division:

Victorian Tier-A
- 1st and 2nd sides in the Victoria division from the previous year stay in the Victoria division.
- They play ALL 12 inter-division games away, but 4 are home state games against the 4 Victorian Tier-C sides in the Non-Vic divisions.

Victorian Tier-B
- The 4 Victorian sides that were in the Non-Vic Divisions the previous year, come back to the Victoria division.
- They play 1 home state game against a Non-Victorian team from the division that they were NOT apart of the previous year that they had played
against away.
Ex. If Carlton and Collingwood were in the NorthEast division together last year and they both played West Coast and Adelaide away
(who are both in the SouthWest division), then they play one of those opponents as their home Inter-Division game.
Could determine which match ups take place by breaking the longest match-up drought out of the 4 possibilities between Victorian sides hosting the
Non-Victorian sides in question.
- They play 11 inter-division games away, but 4 are home state games against the 4 Victorian Tier-C sides in the Non-Vic divisions.
- They play a total of 5 home state games.

NorthEast and SouthWest Divisions

Non-Victorian Tier-A
- 1 side each from QLD, NSW, SA and WA.
- They all play the 2 Victorian Tier-A sides at home - 2 home state games
- They play all 4 Victorian Tier-B sides at home - 4 home state games
- They all play split home and away games against teams in the other Non-Victorian division - 3 home state games
- They play a total of 9 home state games.
- They switch to being Non-Victorian Tier-B the following season.

Non-Victorian Tier-B
- 1 side each from QLD, NSW, SA and WA.
- They all play the 2 Victorian Tier-A sides at home - 2 home state games
- They play 3 Victorian Tier-B sides at home, with 1 game away in Victoria - 3 home state games
- They all play split home and away games against teams in the other Non-Victorian division - 3 home state games
- They play a total of 8 home state games.
- They switch to being Non-Victorian Tier-A the following season.

Victorian Tier-C
- 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th sides in the Victoria division from the previous year are paired up and play in the Non-Victorian divisions.
The pairs can be determined by breaking the longest droughts of Victorian sides appearing in certain Non-Victorian division with big Victorian rivals
paired together to break any deadlocks.
- They play all teams in the Victoria division once for 6 home state games and 4 home state games against sides in the other Non-Victorian division,
which includes 1 away game against a Victorian side in that Non-Victorian division, for a total of 10 home state games.

Grand Totals

Victorian Tier-A (2): 10 home state Division games + 4 home state Inter-Division games = 14 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Victorian Tier-B (4): 10 home state Division games + 5 home state Inter-Division games = 15 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Victorian Tier-C (4): 6 home state Division games + 10 home state Inter-Division games = 16 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Non-Victorian Tier-A (4): 6 home state Division games + 9 home state Inter-Division games = 15 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Non-Victorian Tier-B (4): 6 home state Division games + 8 home state Inter-Division games = 14 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES

Finals

Division Winners are 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
Best Non-Division Winner is 4th.
Next best 4 regardless of divisions are Elimination Finalists.

Finals as we have now, except that 4th always plays away in a Prelim if it is against 2nd/3rd.

Wow, that's a lot of effort to justify your team getting more games of home advantage while giving Vic clubs neutral games and pretending that's fair and equal. I also love how your criteria is 'home state'...as if playing a game in Geelong is just as good as just like playing at the MCG.

Why not just drop the pretense and admit this is all just your fantasy about giving your club an even bigger leg up every year.

 

[Colonial]

Wow, that's a lot of effort to justify your team getting more games of home advantage while giving Vic clubs neutral games and pretending that's fair and equal. I also love how your criteria is 'home state'...as if playing a game in Geelong is just as good as just like playing at the MCG.

Why not just drop the pretense and admit this is all just your fantasy about giving your club an even bigger leg up every year.

But you arent getting the away disadvantage either which other clubs get.
You all keep forgetting that when bring up home ground advantage.

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[telsor]

But you arent getting the away disadvantage either which other clubs get.
You all keep forgetting that when bring up home ground advantage.

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I'm not denying that, but 'home state' doesn't mean advantage to Vic clubs (often it's a disadvantage), while it almost always does to non Vic clubs.

 

[Colonial]

I'm not denying that, but 'home state' doesn't mean advantage to Vic clubs (often it's a disadvantage), while it almost always does to non Vic clubs.

Not a disadvantage at all. Its Neutal which means you dont get oure home advantage but you dont get pure away disadvantage either.

Unlike the insterstate clubs (bar derby) getting either a pure advantage or a pure disadvantage.



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[telsor]

Not a disadvantage at all. Its Neutal which means you dont get oure home advantage but you dont get pure away disadvantage either.

Unlike the insterstate clubs (bar derby) getting either a pure advantage or a pure disadvantage.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

If Richmond is playing a game in Geelong, is that neutral?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I like the 3 divisions of 6 teams each.

Victoria: VIC x 6
NorthEast: BRI, GCS, SYD, GWS, VIC x 2
SouthWest: ADE, PA, WCE, FRE, VIC x 2

Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney and GWS are permanently fixed into the NorthEast division.
Adelaide, Port Adelaide, West Coast and Fremantle are permanently fixed into the SouthWest division.
Victorian sides either compete in the Victoria division or in one of the two Non-Victorian divisions and are rotated in and out per season.

22 games = 10 division games + 12 inter-division games

Division Games:

Victoria Division:
- each side gets 10 division games in which all 10 are home state games
NorthEast and SouthWest Divisions:
- each side gets 10 division games in which 6 are home state games (5 home games plus 1 away game derby).

Inter-Division Games:

Victoria Division:

Victorian Tier-A
- 1st and 2nd sides in the Victoria division from the previous year stay in the Victoria division.
- They play ALL 12 inter-division games away, but 4 are home state games against the 4 Victorian Tier-C sides in the Non-Vic divisions.

Victorian Tier-B
- The 4 Victorian sides that were in the Non-Vic Divisions the previous year, come back to the Victoria division.
- They play 1 home state game against a Non-Victorian team from the division that they were NOT apart of the previous year that they had played
against away.
Ex. If Carlton and Collingwood were in the NorthEast division together last year and they both played West Coast and Adelaide away
(who are both in the SouthWest division), then they play one of those opponents as their home Inter-Division game.
Could determine which match ups take place by breaking the longest match-up drought out of the 4 possibilities between Victorian sides hosting the
Non-Victorian sides in question.
- They play 11 inter-division games away, but 4 are home state games against the 4 Victorian Tier-C sides in the Non-Vic divisions.
- They play a total of 5 home state games.

NorthEast and SouthWest Divisions

Non-Victorian Tier-A
- 1 side each from QLD, NSW, SA and WA.
- They all play the 2 Victorian Tier-A sides at home - 2 home state games
- They play all 4 Victorian Tier-B sides at home - 4 home state games
- They all play split home and away games against teams in the other Non-Victorian division - 3 home state games
- They play a total of 9 home state games.
- They switch to being Non-Victorian Tier-B the following season.

Non-Victorian Tier-B
- 1 side each from QLD, NSW, SA and WA.
- They all play the 2 Victorian Tier-A sides at home - 2 home state games
- They play 3 Victorian Tier-B sides at home, with 1 game away in Victoria - 3 home state games
- They all play split home and away games against teams in the other Non-Victorian division - 3 home state games
- They play a total of 8 home state games.
- They switch to being Non-Victorian Tier-A the following season.

Victorian Tier-C
- 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th sides in the Victoria division from the previous year are paired up and play in the Non-Victorian divisions.
The pairs can be determined by breaking the longest droughts of Victorian sides appearing in certain Non-Victorian division with big Victorian rivals
paired together to break any deadlocks.
- They play all teams in the Victoria division once for 6 home state games and 4 home state games against sides in the other Non-Victorian division,
which includes 1 away game against a Victorian side in that Non-Victorian division, for a total of 10 home state games.

Grand Totals

Victorian Tier-A (2): 10 home state Division games + 4 home state Inter-Division games = 14 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Victorian Tier-B (4): 10 home state Division games + 5 home state Inter-Division games = 15 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Victorian Tier-C (4): 6 home state Division games + 10 home state Inter-Division games = 16 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Non-Victorian Tier-A (4): 6 home state Division games + 9 home state Inter-Division games = 15 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES
Non-Victorian Tier-B (4): 6 home state Division games + 8 home state Inter-Division games = 14 TOTAL HOME STATE GAMES

Finals

Division Winners are 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
Best Non-Division Winner is 4th.
Next best 4 regardless of divisions are Elimination Finalists.

Finals as we have now, except that 4th always plays away in a Prelim if it is against 2nd/3rd.

You've put in a lot of work but sadly I'm going to have to dismiss it out of hand.

My enjoyment of footy comes from going to Spotless and Manuka and seeing my club play all the other clubs. Hopefully beating them but also seeing all the best players in the comp.

Anything that reduces that sucks and just no.

 

[Colonial]

If Richmond is playing a game in Geelong, is that neutral?

No. But do Richmond play in Geelong?

AFL always move it to your home ground yeah?

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[telsor]

No. But do Richmond play in Geelong?

AFL always move it to your home ground yeah?

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We did a few years back, but that's not really the point...the point would be that those Vic clubs that do play there don't get neutral games.

Richmond DOES play games, even 'home' games at Docklands, against clubs far more accustomed to playing there...Again, not 'neutral'....Tell me, would you consider GWS playing a game at the SCG to be a 'neutral' venue?

 

[Colonial]

We did a few years back, but that's not really the point...the point would be that those Vic clubs that do play there don't get neutral games.

Richmond DOES play games, even 'home' games at Docklands, against clubs far more accustomed to playing there...Again, not 'neutral'....Tell me, would you consider GWS playing a game at the SCG to be a 'neutral' venue?

No but they then get home games on the return.

As for the SCG its thebSeans and only the Swans. But they then get an away game to even out the balance.

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[Isaac Cumming No 1]

We did a few years back, but that's not really the point...the point would be that those Vic clubs that do play there don't get neutral games.

Richmond DOES play games, even 'home' games at Docklands, against clubs far more accustomed to playing there...Again, not 'neutral'....Tell me, would you consider GWS playing a game at the SCG to be a 'neutral' venue?

I'd consider it a betrayal by the AFL to schedule one there, and an act of bastardisation.

 

[Blackhawk42]

We've had 3 straight years of unexpected premiers since the fixture was changed to make sure teams mainly doubled up against similar placed teams from the previous season. Am I the only one who feels as if it has worked beautifully and as intended and we should leave it alone?

 

[telsor]

No but they then get home games on the return.

As for the SCG its thebSeans and only the Swans. But they then get an away game to even out the balance.

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I'd consider it a betrayal by the AFL to schedule one there, and an act of bastardisation.

So you agree with me that just because the game is in your 'home state', it's not equal to being a 'home game'. (which is the point I was making several replies back when this discussion originated ).

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

So you agree with me that just because the game is in your 'home state', it's not equal to being a 'home game'. (which is the point I was making several replies back when this discussion originated ).

But different flr us with two teams and each having a home ground, but yes I do.

 

[telsor]

But different flr us with two teams and each having a home ground, but yes I do.

In Vic there are 3 home (regular) grounds...

Even if not though, Richmond V Collingwood at the MCG isn't the same level of home advantage as GWS v Collingwood at Showgrounds, so the notion presented of all clubs getting ~15 'home state games' being fair was just silly.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

In Vic there are 3 home (regular) grounds...

Even if not though, Richmond V Collingwood at the MCG isn't the same level of home advantage as GWS v Collingwood at Showgrounds, so the notion presented of all clubs getting ~15 'home state games' being fair was just silly.

I agree but I rate Home Ground advantage lower than most anyway.

 

[telsor]

I agree but I rate Home Ground advantage lower than most anyway.

Some matter more than others. I think a lot comes down to familiarity (how often you play there), unusual features (weird shapes, like the flat wing at Geelong) and how one sided the crowds are.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Some matter more than others. I think a lot comes down to familiarity (how often you play there), unusual features (weird shapes, like the flat wing at Geelong) and how one sided the crowds are.

Ground shapes absolutely.

Hostile crowds is a bit complicated in my view. To a successful team with belief I dont think it matters much. To a developing team it does. It's affected us in the past, but the last couple.of years not too much I think.

I do think it's very likely a team like the Lions or even Freo will have much better results at home this year. Generally the last step in the development of a team is the ability to win consistently away.

 

[telsor]

Ground shapes absolutely.

Hostile crowds is a bit complicated in my view. To a successful team with belief I dont think it matters much. To a developing team it does. It's affected us in the past, but the last couple.of years not too much I think.

I do think it's very likely a team like the Lions or even Freo will have much better results at home this year. Generally the last step in the development of a team is the ability to win consistently away.

For crowds, think your final against Richmond in 2017...Sure, you didn't know the G that well, but that crowd would have intimidated anyone, even successful ones (as any team reaching that far would be).

I think all teams can win any game. Sure, some have slim chances, but they still have a chance. Being at home, increases that chance a bit, and over a year might mean a low ranked team might snatch a win or two that mightn't happen on a truly neutral ground (if such a thing existed).