AFL Exhibition Matches

[fishmonger]

Just wondering about the future of AFL exhibition matches, particularly the regular London matches. I am very skeptical that these are being directed at the right markets.

There have been more exhibition matches in London than anywhere else in the world, but they are always a mixed bag in terms of crowds and general interest. Sometimes the games sell out, other times, they struggle to get crowds. The general consensus is that they are ex-pat events with relatively little interest from locals.

Over all of these years, it has not grown the game as much as other. The "Aussie Bowl" games in Japan, and games in Canada are IMO opinion much better value, generating both great crowds and developing the game at the grassroots.

What is the story in London. Is this just lack of good promotion by the AFL BARFL ? or that the English market, like Sydney is entrenched by other codes (like rugby and soccer) ? Is it a lost cause and will this persistence ever actually pay off ??

I sometimes wonder if the AFL wants to do repeat/follow-up exhibition matches, perhaps it should be focussing on exhibition matches where there is potential and already a the infrastructure to start accepting players. My top 10 suggestions/priorities (based on ability to generate crowds, interest, grassroots) instead of London next year would be:

1. Copenhagen (with DAFL matches as curtain raisers). I don't think any exhibition matches have ever been played there, and it is suprising how well the game has grown. This would be potentially great for the new markets of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Germany.

2. South Africa. It has been 7 years since the last match there in Cape Town, and another game in the North West could also capture interest in Zimbabwe. The game needs a another boost in South Africa, and an exhibition match in Johannesburg would be just the ticket.

3. Canada. These games have always attracted big interest and crowds. Should be more of them. The last one was 16 years ago, and interest in the game needs a boost at the grassroots to build on the good work so far, and for TV and the hard work of the AFANA.

4. India. Has huge untapped potential (1 billion people, many speak english) and no exposure to the code. Cricket games get good crowds and good opportunity for cross-promotion. Clubs could be established quickly at cricket grounds. Sri Lanka an alternative.

5. Tokyo. Like Canada, hasn't seen games since the 1980s. There is huge potential to further expand.

6. PNG. Recent efforts have focussed on Wellington and Auckland in New Zealand but Wizard Cup match would be a huge boost for footy in PNG.

7. Argentina/Brazil. Would be great to see a boost to the newly emerging leagues in South America with a game in Buenos Aries by playing an AFL exhibition match.

8. Vietnam. Big population, small league already in place. An exhibition match could have an immediate impact. There are also already Vietnamese playing the sport in Australia that can spread the word.

9. Kenya. Like India, with potential because of growing popularity of cricket, but more potential for great AFL athletes. Great spot for a fledgeling league and doorway to neighbouring nations.

10. Mexico. Bordering the USA has great potential to participate against leagues in southern states and South American nations, but no current infrastructure. Huge population and soccer the only form of football. An exhitibion match here could be interesting but risky.

Thoughts ?

 

[Mobbs]

Nice work, fishmonger, what's your history/involvement with aussie rules o'seas? You seem to have a fair gist of where the action is.

I'm only currently up for responding about the London matches. One of the best things about the recent match, was that there were 3 other events flanking it, exposing folks to a few more versions of the game. I speak of the Brit Cup curtain-raiser, the junior footy at the break, and also the EU Cup the next day.

So on the back of those events, I don't think its quite time to give up on the London experiment, not just yet!

Also, I didn't know Vietnam had a league! I knew expats represented it in the odd Asia Cup, but I didn't know they had a comp going on within the borders. That's exciting to hear!

 

[fishmonger]

My history has been the last few months.

I've never been overseas, but I have a passion for AFL footy, and I am sick to death of Melbourne people's parochial attitudes about football. I'd like to see football promoted overseas, because I am also sick of hearing rugby and soccer fans bagging AFL because they think noone else plays it.

I also think that there are so many potentially great athletes that the AFL is missing out on. Imagine Michael Jordan soaring over a pack to take a screamer, Wally Lewis charging out of a congested centre square breaking tackles with ball tucked under arm or Diego Maradona snapping a miraculous Peter Daicos style goal from the boundary line. That's what I want to see and I don't think we're getting enough of it.

I've been frustrated with the AFL not doing enough to promote the AFL overseas. I can see the benefits in assisting the Swans and Lions to do well, but I think it is pretty narrow to focus only on promoting the game in AUstralia, when there are other codes kicking real goals in world football. With international success comes local success - look at what the Socceroos are doing for the profile of Australian soccer. I fear that without international promotion, globalisation will eventually swallow the AFL and leave it for dead - even in its stronghold Victoria. Melbourne may be a big busy world city, but it is actually just a tiny speck of dust on a camel's but compared to what is out there.

Believe it or not, I truly believe that it is very passion that Victorians have for the sport that will eventually be its downfall. All the time, I see the AFL and Victorians saying "hands off, this is our game, and South Melbourne won the grand final etc". Maybe this is pessimism, because most people think the AFL has never been better, but other codes have a hundred year headstart because of the types of narrow atitudes that are going around. We know how good our sport is, but we don't want to share it. Why should we be so selfish as to keep the worlds best kept secret football code to ourselves ? Melbourne is a footy feast, but sometimes I hate living here for exactly the same reason. I think Victorians should be starved of footy, so they know what it is like to be overseas and miss it so much.

One day I hope my kids might have a chance to play real footy (not inter-rules) for Australia.

I don't think Vietnam has a league actually, but I heard there is more than one club ...

 

[monnersfan]

Interesting thesis, and a reinteration of themes that have been posted on this board for some time. Being a Victorian, I share your view that at times the code it too focussed on Melbourne, and that it hinders the sport's development overseas. However, I disagree with the notion that development projects in Sydney and Brisbane are too narrow.

In my mind, I believe that dominating the Australian sporting culture is a sensible goal that the AFL strives towards, and I believe that if it is achieved it will have flow-on benefits for the code overseas. Australia is among the more lucrative sports markets worldwide, and the sponsorship and media rights money derived from market preeminance will continue to grow and, in time, hopefully provision the AFL with the resources they need to penetrate international markets. Market preeminance depends on securing a substantial share of the Brisbane and Sydney populations as AFL consumers, not, as many people believe, simply transfixing a majority of the Australian population in the South and West.

Add to this that 4 million tourists visit Australia each year, many of which visit Queensland and Sydney exclusively. AFL football is a major tourist attraction in Melbourne, and visiting the MCG for a match is a common winter experience for international visitors to Victoria. If Australian football can increase its profile in Sydney and Queensland and tourists visiting these areas experience footy matches as a part of their Australian holiday, the sport will receive a massive boost overseas.

But I digress. As far as exhibition matches are concerned, I believe your first 4 suggestions have merit, and would be likely to boost the code's profile and growth in the nations considerably. For a number of reasons I am less enthusiastic about cities 5-10. Tokyo has a history of drawing good crowds to novelty sporting events, without any long-term flow on effects where development is concerned. Baseball & Soccer have spent fortunes trying to win over the Japanese, and the benefits are probably less than if the money had been spent elsewhere. PNG has the enthusiasm and public recognition, but lacks the facilities and economic strength to underwrite a profitable event. Cities 7-10 are less-likely suggestions, in that the sport is in its infancy or non-existent there. To varying degrees, they all would pose problems where facilities (stadiums) and finances are concerned, and I doubt the AFL would look at them.

To end on a positive note though, I think exhibition matches in China and New Zealand should be added to the list. China has the population and economy to become a jewel in the code's crown. New Zealand neighbours Australia, is home to ~50,000 expats and has a renowned love of sport. The Kiwis also have the facilities and finances to make regular exhibition matches worthwhile.

 

[cos789]

I'm astounded that the AFL and Australian Goverment hasn't offered an AFL match to Denmark as a present to Mary . better than watching two Tasmanian Devils etc .

 

[Rooster]

Vietnam doesn't have a league as such.

There were 2 teams formed in 1998 - the Saigon Saints and the Hanoi Hawks. They were formed as part of the Foster's Asia Cup which also included Hong Kong & Thailand to help celebrate the opening of a Foster's Brewery in Saigon.

The Hanoi Hawks dwindled a bit and disappeared - although the Hanoi Swans now exist and they have played a few matches against international competition in recent years. The Saigon Saints maintained activity for a few years and even toured as Vietnam with a couple of Hanoi Hawks on board... but I am not sure of their status now.

If anybody is in Saigon - go around the block from the Huong Seng Hotel to Cafe Latin, up to Level 4 and ask what is happening with the footy... report back here.

 

[Rooster]

Exactly !!! CHINA !!!!

Burgeoning middle class with time to themselves on weekends !!!

around 7 years ago - China was trying to identify itself with a national sport... they chose rugby.

Where was the AFL during the months previous to that ??? why weren't they in there lobbying ???

of course 99% of the people playing sport play soccer... but what about the army and universities ??? which sport gets all the funding ??? RUGBY

 

[fishmonger]

My problem with China is that it doesn't have the infrastructure to support AFL at the moment, whereas I'd like to see places where Australian football is already played by likely types get a much needed boost.

I am very suprised that noone here backs Canada for more exhibition matches. I know people in Canada that say that although the code has grown in the past, it is no longer growing at the grassroots and is increasingly depending on Aussies to make up the numbers.

The Chinese, like Japan do not have ideal builds for competitive football, whereas with elite players getting taller and stronger, I think northern Europe, Canada and South Africa could more benefit the AFL long term.

 

[cckid]

I am very suprised that noone here backs Canada for more exhibition matches. I know people in Canada that say that although the code has grown in the past, it is no longer growing at the grassroots and is increasingly depending on Aussies to make up the numbers.

I have no idea where you get your information but it is very incorrect. Football is not increasingly dependant on Australians to make up numbers. Fact: 80% of the players in the largest league in Canada where Canadian. Of the Australian players 33% played 3 or less games. Hardly what I would consider dependant.

What is really beginning to irk me is too many opinions on what needs to be done by people who are nowhere close to the situation. Making statements about facts that they really have no idea about.

I have a wish list as long as my arm and then some for what I would like to see happen in Canada. I know what can be done and what cannot, what is realistic and what is not. But i don't sit here day after day spouting off about what other people should do. I do it! Without the trumpets and the fanfare, without trying to prove that my way is the way to do things. There are too many hanger-ons and glory seekers and not enough doers.

my 2 cents

 

[fishmonger]

I was basing my comment on annecdotal evidence. Even one of my mates went over to live in Canada for 4 years and the local side kept pleading him to captain the team even though he is an aussie reserves veteran of 4 knee operations. Some of his teammates played in the International Cup.

I really take offense to this comment. Not every one of us is cashed up enough to go jetsetting around the world, but we can still do our bit to spread the word of international football.

Are you telling me that you don't want to see another exhibition match in Canada, even though the last one was a VFL match ?

While you're on the the subject of making comments about something you don't know about, can you please define 'hanger-on' and 'glory seeker' and 'doer' ? What have my comments simply got to do with any of these ?

 

[clarkey]

What is really beginning to irk me is too many opinions on what needs to be done by people who are nowhere close to the situation. Making statements about facts that they really have no idea about.

Never was a truer word said.

 

[fishmonger]

Interesting thesis, and a reinteration of themes that have been posted on this board for some time. Being a Victorian, I share your view that at times the code it too focussed on Melbourne, and that it hinders the sport's development overseas. However, I disagree with the notion that development projects in Sydney and Brisbane are too narrow.

In my mind, I believe that dominating the Australian sporting culture is a sensible goal that the AFL strives towards, and I believe that if it is achieved it will have flow-on benefits for the code overseas. Australia is among the more lucrative sports markets worldwide, and the sponsorship and media rights money derived from market preeminance will continue to grow and, in time, hopefully provision the AFL with the resources they need to penetrate international markets. Market preeminance depends on securing a substantial share of the Brisbane and Sydney populations as AFL consumers, not, as many people believe, simply transfixing a majority of the Australian population in the South and West.

Add to this that 4 million tourists visit Australia each year, many of which visit Queensland and Sydney exclusively. AFL football is a major tourist attraction in Melbourne, and visiting the MCG for a match is a common winter experience for international visitors to Victoria. If Australian football can increase its profile in Sydney and Queensland and tourists visiting these areas experience footy matches as a part of their Australian holiday, the sport will receive a massive boost overseas.

But I digress. As far as exhibition matches are concerned, I believe your first 4 suggestions have merit, and would be likely to boost the code's profile and growth in the nations considerably. For a number of reasons I am less enthusiastic about cities 5-10. Tokyo has a history of drawing good crowds to novelty sporting events, without any long-term flow on effects where development is concerned. Baseball & Soccer have spent fortunes trying to win over the Japanese, and the benefits are probably less than if the money had been spent elsewhere. PNG has the enthusiasm and public recognition, but lacks the facilities and economic strength to underwrite a profitable event. Cities 7-10 are less-likely suggestions, in that the sport is in its infancy or non-existent there. To varying degrees, they all would pose problems where facilities (stadiums) and finances are concerned, and I doubt the AFL would look at them.

To end on a positive note though, I think exhibition matches in China and New Zealand should be added to the list. China has the population and economy to become a jewel in the code's crown. New Zealand neighbours Australia, is home to ~50,000 expats and has a renowned love of sport. The Kiwis also have the facilities and finances to make regular exhibition matches worthwhile.

I come from Queensland and I know that the AFL up there and in NSW and as much as I'd love it to be, it will never be the #1 sport. My high school didn't even offer aussie rules as a sport, but I persevered anyway. AFL is often frowned upon and players and supporters verbally abused by mainstream Queenslanders. Rugby is as ingrained in their culture as AFL is in Melbourne. AFL has as much chance of taking over in QLD and NSW as the Melbourne Storm have here in Victoria.

Have a look at the interest generated by international test matches in Brisbane and Sydney and you'll see what I mean. Even for a match Rugby League match between Australia and some tiny island in the Pacific, people go ******* over it. They just don't have the same passion for the Lions or the Swans. If the teams stop winning, then the media and supporters forget about them. People forget the days when Brisbane played against Fitzroy in front of 600 people at the Gabba - I was there. They had slightly more at Carrara when they were playing there. They love a winner, but they soon as leave a loser. I just think spending more money in QLD and NSW (and London for that matter) is flushing money down the toilet that could be spent on new markets with potential.

If what you say is true then a team should be located on the Gold Coast - not Brisbane - because noone bothers visiting Brisbane because it is a hole. If so, then why were the Bears relocated from Cararra ? Surely there are more tourist pumping through the GC ... why not start up the Port Douglas Pussies, or the Whitsunday ********ers or something - because the Australian Football is not a tourist gimmick.

But I really doubt that if I went on a holiday to Sydney harbour and saw a football match there that I'd turn around and become a rabid League supporter. That logic is flawed. If I lived overseas and saw a local game being played by friends and supported on the other hand, I'd get interested.

 

[fishmonger]

Never was a truer word said.

someone has an atitude problem
you are my heroes, you frontiermen of Australian Football, you ex-pats with a mission
us australians will herein keep our opinions to ourselves and stop stealing your thunder, we are humble in your presence

Is it just me or are we are all on the same team here ? whats with the pompous self righteousness

 

[clarkey]

G'day Fishmonger,

I wasn't referring to you mate. Welcome to the forum and keep posting.

 

[cckid]

someone has an atitude problem
you are my heroes, you frontiermen of Australian Football, you ex-pats with a mission
us australians will herein keep our opinions to ourselves and stop stealing your thunder, we are humble in your presence

Is it just me or are we are all on the same team here ? whats with the pompous self righteousness

Not all of us are ex-pats either. I applaud your enthusiasm for the game and it's growth and i hope that passion does not ever diminish within you.

 

[cckid]

I really take offense to this comment. Not every one of us is cashed up enough to go jetsetting around the world, but we can still do our bit to spread the word of international football.

There you go making assumtions again. Many of the ex-pats that make a difference in the league have moved here though work and and decided to stay and make canada their home.

Are you telling me that you don't want to see another exhibition match in Canada, even though the last one was a VFL match ?

I would love to see another fall exibition match played in Canada on a regular basis. But the resources are not there.

1. the AFL does not do anything for free. By this I mean there need to be a third party to underwrite the event. Someone has to pay for the teams to fly to Canada, pay for their hotels and entertainment. AFL Canada does not have the funds to do this. They could not afford to pay for their national team to go to Australia, so one can forget about them bank rolling bring AFL to Canada.

2. There is not enough of a support base of AFL fans to make it commercially viable for sponsors to come on board.

3. There are no suitable venues in Canada for a full 18 a-side match. The best you could hope for would be a 14 on 14 match. The Canadian Football League stadiums are simply too small. And most of them are artificial turf which the players hate playing on.

4. the amout of money spent on bringing two AFL clubs to Canada to play an exibition match which will promote the game in a limited area for a period of maybe 4 weeks, would be much better spent on personnel to go into schools and teach kids the game and set up competitions for them.

The selfish side of me would love to see an AFL game live every year, however the economics and reality of it is that the money would be better spent elsewhere. I know this because I had the conversation with the AFL and tried to get the AFL exibition match to return to Canada in the late 90's. I came to the above conclusions over half a decade ago.

While you're on the the subject of making comments about something you don't know about, can you please define 'hanger-on' and 'glory seeker' and 'doer' ? What have my comments simply got to do with any of these ?

Were not directed at yourself, was merely a continuation of my fustrations with the community on a whole. Primarily why I don't post much. I hope that clarifies some things

 

[Rooster]

Bugger me !!!! I only looked away for a second.... now I have 50 replies to do in one hit !!!!

My problem with China is that it doesn't have the infrastructure to support AFL at the moment, whereas I'd like to see places where Australian football is already played by likely types get a much needed boost.

The Chinese, like Japan do not have ideal builds for competitive football,

CHINA - CHINA - CHINA !!!
Much more advanced than some on your list... India, Brazil, Vietnam, Kenya, Mexico ??? Chinese are on the edge of being economically ready to take up some hobbies / sports on a massive scale.

The Japanese do not have the WORK ETHIC for competitive football. Play the IC in Japan - where their best team is a combination of their youthful pace and their most experienced players... the Samurai are all students. In Japan you don't get holidays in your first year of work and you have to work for years before you have holidays long enough to take part in an IC campaign for 2 weeks in Oz. Play in Japan on weekends and Japan will feature in the top 4.

China don't have the build to play footy ??? Have you ever been so scared to walk on to a field against opposition that you are throwing up ??? I am 6'2" 120kg (at that time) and I was thowing up... well it was after the game and it was as a result of concussion...
My last game of rugby in China was for the South China Rams (poms, frogs, yanks, irish... essentially NATO + 2 Oz, 2 locals and a kiwi). and we played against the Chinese Army.... and on the same day that NATO bombed the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia... we were belted by a much bigger and stronger team...
If you believe that most Chinese are small, then you believe that most Chinese speak Cantonese... I did (long ago)... but that is because up until the early 90s the vast majority of Chinese in Australia were Cantonese (Hong Kong and surrounds)... and true - they are generally shorter than the northerners... Australia now is home to a lot more mainlanders (essentially Mandarin speakers) and there are some big dudes amongst them... but wait till you see Beijing... there are some very big guys up there.
Anyway... back to the rugby... I was reeling after the match and ended up in hospital... lucky for me... the boys that went out that night bore the brunt of a very angry Chinese student population (and justifiably angry)... the rugby match itself held no spite - it was the students with their finger on the pulse that marched on US & UK embassies and gave the boys a hard time that night.

Rugby League match....... people go ******* over it.

I think you will find they already were ******* !!!! (sorry League fans... just a bit of banter - couldn't resist)

They had slightly more at Carrara when they were playing there.

I think that the time is right to get another team in Sydney... and why not in GC too... we have both had our slumps in interest - now we have great crowds and it's time to double the size of the fishbowl.
Kangaroos were pussy footing around when thinking about relocating to Sydney and wondered why they weren't being supported !!! Just move there !!! BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME.

Not all of us are ex-pats

That is true... the socio-economic dynamics around the world play a big part in the growth of the sport in formative years... Oh course Aussies will often be a big help in getting the thing started - if not starting it themselves, then forming a large part of the initial players base... but compare an Asian country (not Japan) to a European country...
In the Asian countries the Australians are generally expats with the package to match it, whilst the locals are not necessarily cashed up - or if they are - they are too busy (working OR partying) to get involved in footy... however, your average punter on the street who might be interested in a kick wouldn't necessarily have the means to travel. So we have a predominantly Australian squad as a national team - who somehow need to double in size to allow local matches to happen before the locals can be fully involved. Problem is... when you are playing the same scratch matches over and over again - interest starts to dwindle and it is hard to maintain. Would be great to hit say a 4 team threshold domestically - that's critical mass... it can be maintained and locals can be integrated.
In European countries, there are some Australian expats... but also a lot of travellers that come and get jobs here off their own bats... and also a lot of "Sexual Refugees" who have met a girl in Oz and followed her back to Europe and then setting about trying to get a job or make some money... here the socio-economic status is reversed and it can be very diffiicult to get the Aussies to travel (unless they are eccentric)... in these situations you need to be able to maintain interest over a longer period and get a couple of games here and there... and try to get locals involved as soon as you can. However, these are easier to grow with locals and Australians once the activity starts to pick up a bit.
The Finnish Lions are debuting on 5th November in the Czech Republic at the Prague Cup and we are really struggling for numbers... there are a lot of interested people here - but not interested enough to travel. In Asia - you would get the numbers (but it would be 99% Aussies).





Anyway - is anybody still reading ???

Fishmonger - I too applaud your enthusiasm. How old are you ??? any plans to travel ??? what about doing an around the world footy oddyssey tour ??? You are more than welcome to come and pull the boots on for the Finnish Lions in some of our 2006 events... unless of course we have enough Finns to push out all the foreigners (which I hope we do), in which case we would obviously have a reasonable domestic league under way and you could have a run in that

 

[Centimetre Perfect]

Is it just me or are we are all on the same team here ? whats with the pompous self righteousness

Don't take it personally. As a newbie, you've just missed all kinds of arguments over people pulling in different directions, people putting their own interests and egos over the good of the game, and all kinds of other nonsense. Some posters on here don't like or have problems with other posters. Some of the responses on this thread aren't necessarily even in reference to the previous post so much as they are general sarcastic references to previous arguments. Keep reading (and maybe read through some of the older threads), and you'll start to figure it out.

We SHOULD all be on the same team -- but sometimes you wonder if we actually are...

 

[Mobbs]

Don't take it personally. As a newbie, you've just missed all kinds of arguments over people pulling in different directions ...

Dead on. Thanks CP.

 

[fishmonger]

Fishmonger - I too applaud your enthusiasm. How old are you ??? any plans to travel ??? what about doing an around the world footy oddyssey tour ??? You are more than welcome to come and pull the boots on for the Finnish Lions in some of our 2006 events... unless of course we have enough Finns to push out all the foreigners (which I hope we do), in which case we would obviously have a reasonable domestic league under way and you could have a run in that

I'm 30. No plans to travel, but reading all this international stuff and seeing the ages of some of the players in leagues around the world, I am seriously considering getting involved.

Thanks for your reassurance anyway guys, but I must say, it does sound a bit trivial. I think everyone should just bury the hatchet and start looking to new recruits for some regenerated interest in international football.

If every newbie goes through this, then you'll turn a lot of people off.

With regards to egos, well I think if people weren't passionate, then nothing would get done ... am I right ?