Expansion AFL - It's time to start playing Home and Away games overseas.

[cos789]

I agree with the basic premise that the main target for the AFL should be raising the profile of the game internationally. So along with Uluru, Kangaroos,Sydney Harbour etc etc the game is more recognised internationally as the Australian game. Success at that level would inevitably help expansion in NSW and Qld. At this point I still think exhibition matches are the way to go.

Because of the vagaries of english I don't know the implication behind "should"

The AFL is a not-for-profit organisation with a revenue income .
A proportion of the revenue pie should be for :
1.grassroots - to maintain the future pathways.
2.equalisation - to maintain the competition .
3.costs - players ,grounds ,administration etc .
4.development - why ? there isn't one answer and it shouldn't be just to make us feet better .

Investment in the RSA because the money is leveraged by private and government money to provide spectacular results .
A lot of recent exhibition matches have been underwritten by PayTV companies to promote their new AFL product .
Older exhibition matches were underwritten to sell beer .
Other recent exhibition matches like China and LA have been undertaken wrt trade missions .
Investment in NZ and PNG has been undertaken to boost already prominent leagues to provide pathways to the AFL.
Investment in the NT has seen a team introduced into the NEAFL .
In the future we might see a PNG and NZ team there .
Possibly in the distant future we might see a S15 type arrangement .
There are any number of possible investments but unfortunately every venture incurs a cost and that cost has to be justified .

 

[yellowandblack21]

I'm a Kiwi who has taken to watching AFL because I live in Melb, and now enjoy it as much as rugby. But I can't see it ever taking off over the ditch.
Sure, they'd get decent crowds for a few years if they hosted one game a season in Wellington, the stadium there holds a little over 30k and filling it would make the AFL some money for sure (as well as being in a convenient time slot for TV here) - but it would only ever be seen as an exhibition event by the locals. I reckon they'd struggle to sustain the interest after a few years, you'd end up with expats being the majority of the crowd.

As a poster above alluded to, Kiwi sports fans can definitely be a little narrow-minded if the game isn't Union or League. Soccer has done well recently because of the (relative) success of the national team, but even they struggle for numbers and money.
Plus, there's always going to be a certain stigma attached to any sport named after Australia. On the sports field anyway, pretty much anything "Aussie" is seen as evil. And that attitude ain't ever going to change!

If the AFL got in at the grass-roots level, and promoted AFL as a game for players of a certain body type, ie runners not front rowers, they could grow the local comps running in the major cities. But until the day comes a high profile NZ player makes it big in AFL, it will only ever be a curiosity to us. IMO.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Too far away, too many hours sitting in an aeroplane. I can't imagine any teams wanting to travel Melbourne/Shanghai or Adelaide/Manilla and back in the space of one ordinary week of the H&A season. Impractical.

 

[aidancdaman]

If the AFL got in at the grass-roots level, and promoted AFL as a game for players of a certain body type, ie runners not front rowers, they could grow the local comps running in the major cities. But until the day comes a high profile NZ player makes it big in AFL, it will only ever be a curiosity to us. IMO.

You mean like a convert (a la K.Hunt, who is indeed a Kiwi) or just a NZer who makes it in the AFL?

 

[cos789]

I'm a Kiwi who has taken to watching AFL because I live in Melb, and now enjoy it as much as rugby.

So all takes is more people like you.

ISure, they'd get decent crowds for a few years if they hosted one game a season in Wellington.

That's very encouraging .

If the AFL got in at the grass-roots level.

I believe they have started .

But until the day comes a high profile NZ player makes it big in AFL.

Well there has been quite a number of NZ connections that you probably don't kow about ,but yes ,you're talking a Folau type player .

You're right kiwis could probably do with a little bit of education .
Maybe they could appreciate Rugby is an English private school .

 

[sighclone]

Maybe they could appreciate Rugby is an English public school .

Edited for accuracy.

 

[JapanFootball]

In the whole wide world eh ..

That's it then, let's pump squillions into the Japanese AFL market.

From there it will spread like the plague, and overtake Soccer as the dominant sport throughout the Asia regions.

You'd be surprised. In all seriousness, the AFL would be much better off providing money to ensure the survival of clubs such as those in the JAFL rather than pumping 1.5 million dollars into the creation of a football field in China. The infrastructure is already there. In Asia, a lot of football is played on rugby fields. We're talking some of the most densely populated regions on the planet. There is not a lot of room for 'football size fields'.

 

[cos789]

You'd be surprised. In all seriousness, the AFL would be much better off providing money to ensure the survival of clubs such as those in the JAFL rather than pumping 1.5 million dollars into the creation of a football field in China. The infrastructure is already there. In Asia, a lot of football is played on rugby fields. We're talking some of the most densely populated regions on the planet. There is not a lot of room for 'football size fields'.

With all due respect the China oval is just part of a package .
The aim is not to implant full size ovals all over China but more to have at least one showcase ground to display the game .Australia took a few exhibition games to Japan and played them on baseball fields .
Maybe it is time for the AFL to promote Nines at a high level .

 

[yellowandblack21]

So all takes is more people like you.

Yes, but I live here so I'm exposed to it every day. Your average Kiwi, or any other country you'd want to expand to (SthAfrican, PNG?), sees little or nothing of the game on TV. They simply don't know how good it could be.

That's very encouraging .

I'm from Wellington, and I'd like to think we'd give anything new a go. As an example, in soccer the Phoenix are getting much better crowds/support now in Welly than they ever got in Auckland (the Kingz?). I'd certainly go to an AFL game to see what was going on if I still lived there. But the key would be keeping me going back the next year and the year after that...

Well there has been quite a number of NZ connections that you probably don't kow about ,but yes ,you're talking a Folau type player .

Certainly, a Folau type deal would help, putting a huge contract under the nose of a kid just breaking into the All Blacks would certainly make people sit up and take notice of the AFL. But with the salary cap, no team could realistically do this without substantial assistance/rule bending by Vlad.

It sounds awful, but appealing to greed might help ... letting it be known that a kid drafted into the AFL would most probably be earning more than your average provincial rugby player back home...

 

[cos789]

Heard of this guy ?

WARRIORS whizkid Shaun Johnson was nearly lost to AFL when he attracted the interest of scouts in 2006.

But the 21-year-old, one of New Zealand sport's hottest prospects, could easily have been starring in the AFL.

The Courier-Mail can reveal Johnson played Australian football at 16 and appeared on the AFL's radar when he was named New Zealand's best player in 2006 at an international youth tournament named after Ron Barassi.

After the carnival in Canberra, Johnson toured the set-up at the Sydney Swans, who lost that year's AFL grand final to the West Coast by one point under coach Paul Roos.

As Johnson prepares for the biggest game of his fledging NRL career, his father Paul last night recalled his son's decision to turn his back on the AFL.

"Shaun really liked the game. Playing in the AFL was a definite option for him," he said from his home in Whangaparaoa, north of Auckland.

"He impressed the AFL scouts over here. He was named the most promising player of that tournament and we were told by the other coaches at the carnival if any of the Kiwi kids would make it professionally (in the AFL), it would be Shaun.

"We went on a tour of the Swans headquarters. We met their heavy hitters and went through their gym with the New Zealand under-16 team.

"It was an awesome experience.

"In the end, we thought unless we moved to Aussie, an AFL career wasn't going to happen for him. Then the Warriors showed interest which meant Shaun could stay at home."

While Johnson has received rave reviews for his attacking skills, his brief stint in Australian Rules proved just as beneficial.

The boom playmaker honed his kicking game at Orewa College under his coach Craig Ashton, who played Australian football and has been employed by the Warriors as kicking coach.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/he-was-almost-lost-to-afl/story-e6frep5x-1226150042243

 

[sighclone]

Heard of this guy ?

WARRIORS whizkid Shaun Johnson was nearly lost to AFL when he attracted the interest of scouts in 2006.

But the 21-year-old, one of New Zealand sport's hottest prospects, could easily have been starring in the AFL.

The Courier-Mail can reveal Johnson played Australian football at 16 and appeared on the AFL's radar when he was named New Zealand's best player in 2006 at an international youth tournament named after Ron Barassi.

After the carnival in Canberra, Johnson toured the set-up at the Sydney Swans, who lost that year's AFL grand final to the West Coast by one point under coach Paul Roos.

As Johnson prepares for the biggest game of his fledging NRL career, his father Paul last night recalled his son's decision to turn his back on the AFL.

"Shaun really liked the game. Playing in the AFL was a definite option for him," he said from his home in Whangaparaoa, north of Auckland.

"He impressed the AFL scouts over here. He was named the most promising player of that tournament and we were told by the other coaches at the carnival if any of the Kiwi kids would make it professionally (in the AFL), it would be Shaun.

"We went on a tour of the Swans headquarters. We met their heavy hitters and went through their gym with the New Zealand under-16 team.

"It was an awesome experience.

"In the end, we thought unless we moved to Aussie, an AFL career wasn't going to happen for him. Then the Warriors showed interest which meant Shaun could stay at home."

While Johnson has received rave reviews for his attacking skills, his brief stint in Australian Rules proved just as beneficial.

The boom playmaker honed his kicking game at Orewa College under his coach Craig Ashton, who played Australian football and has been employed by the Warriors as kicking coach.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/he-was-almost-lost-to-afl/story-e6frep5x-1226150042243

And your point is?

 

[cos789]

Yes, but I live here so I'm exposed to it every day. Your average Kiwi, or any other country you'd want to expand to (SthAfrican, PNG?), sees little or nothing of the game on TV. They simply don't know how good it could be.

So that makes the present participation in Australian Football overseas by people other than expats even more remarkable .That we are even talking about the possibilities is remarkable .Yes . It's a really big ask ,now ,but once it was impossible and future only seems to get brighter .

 

[JapanFootball]

With all due respect the China oval is just part of a package .
The aim is not to implant full size ovals all over China but more to have at least one showcase ground to display the game .Australia took a few exhibition games to Japan and played them on baseball fields .
Maybe it is time for the AFL to promote Nines at a high level .

The AFL played one exhibition match in the 1980s. Given that Australia has such close ties with Japan, the AFL's support of the development of the game is pretty abysmal IMO. There are young kids in Japan with a huge passion for the game and the potential for growth is enormous. Japan doesn't need million dollar grounds or even exhibition games given how easily one can access AFL on the internet or through the Pay TV networks - all it needs is enough money to keep local clubs afloat. I assume this is the case throughout much growth areas of international football. I think it might be in the AFL's interests to promote a modified version of the game too.

Just on a side note, give the discount flights currently available between Japan and Australia, I would say that AFL is a lot more readily available to the Japanese than it is to many rural Australians.

 

[aidancdaman]

So that makes the present participation in Australian Football overseas by people other than expats even more remarkable .That we are even talking about the possibilities is remarkable .Yes . It's a really big ask ,now ,but once it was impossible and future only seems to get brighter .

In addition to Johnson, Nick Evans, an All Black five eighth got the chance to trial with the Sydney Swans years back but chose to continue with union as he was breaking into a super rugby squad. Matt Duffie, from the Melbourne Storm also made Auckland and New Zealand AFL rep teams.

You might have been out of NZ for a while yellowandblack, I can assure you that most male secondary school students will have some idea of the game as it is now a mandatory teaching in Physical Education. You're right about the average Kiwi sports fan seeing little of it on television. We had the ANZAC Day game live in the home and away season, and then a heap of delayed games due to expanded union season. Then the finals were live. It'll take time, hard work and huge investment but Australian Rules (AFL to the Kiwis) will really take off in New Zealand.

 

[sighclone]

It'll take time, hard work and huge investment but Australian Rules (AFL to the Kiwis) will really take off in New Zealand.

How much time?

 

[yellowandblack21]

You might have been out of NZ for a while yellowandblack,

ha ha, you're not my mum are you? Sounds like something she'd say. A lot.

I can assure you that most male secondary school students will have some idea of the game as it is now a mandatory teaching in Physical Education.

I didn't know that, been a few years since I was at school. Good that they're making some inroads then!

I can definitely see a game happening in NZ one day, the AFL would surely get Tourism NZ/Wellington on board to 'sponsor' the game and it would probably pay for itself as a one-off event. I hope they do give it go.
But to build a long term supporter base, they'd need to commit to going back more often, which will cost for sure.

 

[Uncle Hank]

One of the more subtly racist yet unabashedly ignorant posts I've read on here.

Quite an effort.

it's ok.you can cry PC boy.

Asian cultural desire for interpersonal harmony and full contact sports are not congruent. Furthermore, Asian cultures generally do not regard as highly the potential benefits from risk taking (ie playing full contact sports) that western cultures do. The fact that Asian descendents playing full contact sports professionally in the West are seriously underrepresented is proof.

These are the kind of commonsense considerations that would be made before spending millions marketing the sport to a new market. What you consider "racist" is nothing more than everyday market research.

As for the shits and giggles expat leagues in Japan and elsewhere....the money is better spent here. Your "leagues" are a joke. Get over yourselves.

 

[dagriggstar]

Should play state of origin games in the off-season somewhere in the northern hemisphere

Clubs won't be so worried about injuries
State of origin is back !
Get to show (where-ever) the best the game has to offer

 

[aidancdaman]

How much time?

Give it 10 to 20 years I'd say .

ha ha, you're not my mum are you? Sounds like something she'd say. A lot.

I get told the opposite when I go back to Australia and my relatives hear me use the words "sweet", "jandals" and "chilly bin" .

I can definitely see a game happening in NZ one day, the AFL would surely get Tourism NZ/Wellington on board to 'sponsor' the game and it would probably pay for itself as a one-off event. I hope they do give it go.
But to build a long term supporter base, they'd need to commit to going back more often, which will cost for sure.

Wellington would seem the most logical place for it (actually has oval staduims) but its so bloody cold . People whinge about Melbourne's weather.....Auckland would be warmer, but not without rain. And they'd have to get onto building an actual oval stadium (plenty of football grounds around, just that none have stands ).

 

[Pessimistic]

One reason to do more now would be the scurrent admin.

They have covered most bases in the nsw qld expansion and have done a fine job. They are up to doing it.

Not sure I caould say that about previous admns - they were more your wrecker types

 

[JapanFootball]

it's ok.you can cry PC boy.

Asian cultural desire for interpersonal harmony and full contact sports are not congruent. Furthermore, Asian cultures generally do not regard as highly the potential benefits from risk taking (ie playing full contact sports) that western cultures do. The fact that Asian descendents playing full contact sports professionally in the West are seriously underrepresented is proof.

These are the kind of commonsense considerations that would be made before spending millions marketing the sport to a new market. What you consider "racist" is nothing more than everyday market research.

As for the shits and giggles expat leagues in Japan and elsewhere....the money is better spent here. Your "leagues" are a joke. Get over yourselves.

it's ok.you can cry PC boy.

Asian cultural desire for interpersonal harmony and full contact sports are not congruent. Furthermore, Asian cultures generally do not regard as highly the potential benefits from risk taking (ie playing full contact sports) that western cultures do. The fact that Asian descendents playing full contact sports professionally in the West are seriously underrepresented is proof.

These are the kind of commonsense considerations that would be made before spending millions marketing the sport to a new market. What you consider "racist" is nothing more than everyday market research.

As for the shits and giggles expat leagues in Japan and elsewhere....the money is better spent here. Your "leagues" are a joke. Get over yourselves.

No Hank you bigot, get over yourself. I know a few Japanese rugby players who I'm sure would like to argue that point with you. Also the success of the all Japanese university teams in the JAFL and in the international cup as well as the two other all Japanese teams in the JAFL discredit you.

At the end of the day you've got to ask yourself why we support international football? In my opinion we are doing it to create closer cultural ties with the world. Beyond that, we are providing an opportunity for expats to enjoy a piece of Australia in a foreign land. We're not talking millions from the AFL, just enough to keep things afloat.

 

[Ron The Bear]

A game in Malaysia could see several players lost to the Barlow & Chambers FC.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

no...just..no

Very sensible post

 

[cos789]

We're not talking millions from the AFL, just enough to keep things afloat.

Australian Football is played in more than 60 countries and throughout Australia .
All but a small number are amateur clubs .
Do the Japanese clubs have particular problems that the majority of AFCs don't ? What in particular would you be looking at ?
Are there opportunities for expansion dependant on funding ?

 

[mikey127]

I think its a good idea to play games overseas but it depends on the country.

Don't bother with the USA too many sports already.

South Africa would be a great option and the game has a lot of potential there as it does in the pacific.

I know some people say fix the rest of Australia before we go abroad but some people in the rest of Aus have seen us as the enemy and sadly probably always will. I try and get people to come to Storm games with me and some people just won't have a bar of it because its the "enemy" but I think people overseas who hav never experienced our great game will have more of a open mind.

Also for those that think the game is making no progress in New Zealand there are about 20,000 kids particpating in Kiwi kick which is there version of Aus kick. Footywild the South Africian equivilent is also flying