Mega Thread AFL to investigate Essendon for controversial fitness program - PART3

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millagurnzie said:
Yep...absolutely no evidence. As I have always thought...this is just a beat up. The AFL will tighten some laws and that will be the end of it.

We all know, no club can be suspended for two years...the AFL would be screwed.
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Unless the agencies have to power to make decisions based on testimony and not necessarily just solid evidence.
 
IF people don''t think that Essendon knew exactly what they were doing, then they are daft.

ALL clubs imo push the envelope to get the best advantage they can.....

Shooting the Sports Science guys imo is wrong, they are only providing the service that the clubs ask them to do.
 
JeffDunne said:
Daytripper, what is incredible is supporters thinking it's ok for club officials to ignore medical advice of a highly respected doctor over that of training staff.

I would think anyone with a shred of concern for their club would think that's a sackable offence?
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I'm not even sure where you are pulling all this rubbish from.:confused:
 

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Daytripper said:
I tell you what will happen.

Nobody will be suspended, nobody senior will resign.

The story will be forgotten as soon as footy starts next week - its even starting to shrink back into its shell now going by the make up of both the HUN and The Age today.

I'm quite bemused at peoples perceptions of ASADA in all this too as if they some all powerful organization. If this has been going on for years then WTF have they been doing all this time aside from suspending the odd VFL player and weightlifter. They are a government organization mired in red tape.

They would find it hard to organize the coffee's in the morning for everyone.
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ASADA are not the principle investigators, various law enforcement agencies under the auspice of the ACC are. Real resources and real teeth.

Second, you are confusing the short news cycle with reality. Events do not conform to the fluctuating waves of media and public interest.
 
morgoth said:
Lance, if they were injecting into the stomach as reported I think your club is in big trouble. This is where hormones are injected, outside of insulin I am not aware of any other vitamin or supplement that goes into the stomach.

A simple google search will confirm this.
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Insulin is often used in a performance enhancing capacity.
 
JeffDunne said:
Daytripper, what is incredible is supporters thinking it's ok for club officials to ignore medical advice of a highly respected doctor over that of training staff.

I would think anyone with a shred of concern for their club would think that's a sackable offence?
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Lance Uppercut said:
I want to see what happens and what's PROVED to have occurred. I will then either lend or remove my support based on facts.

The fact as I understand it is Hird hired Robinson, Robinson hired Dank. Hird shouldn't have to micromanage every single part of the football operations, yet it is apparently the case that the club do in fact know exactly what went on, as they should by providing legal documents.

It is not and has never been a systematic operation and I don't see why one rogue operator should necessarily spell the downfall of the entire management team. And I most certainly wouldn't dream of passing judgement based on media speculation, as you seem happy to do
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Why do you leave out Bomber Thompson?

Hird had no say in who the feck was on his staff? Absolutely love your interpretation of micro-managing!!

Would love to know which people in the football department at Essendon are actually held accountable for what actions? Most structures have accountability residing with the top dogs.

In most organisations it is the bloke at the top who is accountable for the actions of the team under him, which means that all the shady practices fall back to either Bomber or Hird.

Who decided that the sport scientist crew could over-rule Doc Reid? Was it Bomber or Hird?
Who is accountable for making the players all sign confidentiality/consent/waivers?

Absolutely laughable, but fecking predictable, that Dons fans are trying to create a scapegoat in Dank, whilst not only abolishing a couple of fav sons in Bomber and Jimbob, but basically trying to also paint them as victims in this mess.

Players may have been mislead and if the 'vitamins' they were injecting were not vitamins they may cop a big whack, they are the victims.

The fact is that these shady practices happened on Bomber or Hird's watch, one of them should be held accountable, which one Dons fans??
 
DivideandMultiply said:
ASADA are not the principle investigators, various law enforcement agencies under the auspice of the ACC are. Real resources and real teeth.
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Really - then wake me up when they find enough evidence for a charge. There are no positive tests, no old samples afaik and no seizures of any drugs from any of the key players.

I'm at a loss as to how any charge can stick unless a whole group of players come forward and confess that they readily took PED's. And the likelihood of that happening is zero.

Lets not forget the Lance Armstrong case here. Despite almost overwhelming evidence, confessions, seizures and positive tests it still took 7 years for anything to happen.

The scale of this compared to what was going on in cycling is zero.
DivideandMultiply said:
Second, you are confusing the short news cycle with reality. Events do not conform to the fluctuating waves of media and public interest.
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My point is that unless specific facts come out then the public will quickly tire of it.
They are already tiring of it IMO.

Innuendo and gossip will only carry a story so far.
 
Daytripper said:
Incredibly, despite the ever increasing likelihood that Essendon will be found to have done nothing untoward with the extreme unlikelihood of anything ever happening to them as far as 'punishment is concerned - posters still continue to dig holes for themselves.

This reminds exactly of the SK school girl story where people were all too willing to believe anything and everything about the players without any facts. It all seems laughable now.

This melodrama will also seem laughable in a few months. Wait and see.
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The difference is that your club is still culpable for this whole debacle whether you're found guilty or not while our club was just unlucky to get mixed up with a lying teenage stalker from hell.
 

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Blue and Silver said:
Sure man. I respect you're fighting the good fight, but I reckon you guys hired the wrong bloke, that he screwed you when you weren't looking and some players are going to pay with their careers. It's sad, and maybe I'm a pessimist, but I feel like you guys have found a silver lining, grasped it with both hands and have drawn it out to cover yourselves.

Again, hope I'm wrong and all your boys get to line up so mine can shellack them into the next round :D
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I have been saying all along that that is what the club thinks. They KNOW that they didn't use anything illegal but now are worried about a report that he's under investigation for sourcing something illegally and now want to make sure that if that was true then would he stoop as low as doping people without their knowledge.

Also I'm guessing that some of the rumors that have been going through the press were presented to them, i.e. the injections in the stomach, signing forms without the knowledge of AFLPA and managers and the alleged inquires about peptide use.

Rightly they crapped their dacks, but unlike all the conspiracy nuts and/or trolls on here they called ASADA to either clear their name or find the culprits.

All along they were confident that all supplements and methods used that were part of the program were above board. They were worried that some rouge element crossed lines that could bring down the club.

I have stated all along that Dank has been convicted of nothing and the club called ASADA in for the right reasons. Not to cover anything up.

Then we've had people like UpTheGuts, Ancient Tiger and others state that they KNOW that Essendon has been cheating.

I also stated on Thursday that as soon as I read all of page 17 of that report that I KNEW it wasn't Essendon, because there certainly was not a club wide program with coaches involved.
 
fishardansin said:
Rightly they crapped their dacks, but unlike all the conspiracy nuts and/or trolls on here they called ASADA to either clear their name or find the culprits.
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Are you confident that ASADA wouldn't be at the club right now if the Essendon didn't call them in?
 
Captain cleared

By Staff writers Exclusive to essendonfc.com.au
3:09pm AEDT Monday, February 4, 2013

Despite earlier reports, Essendon Football Club can confirm captain Jobe Watson did not suffer an injury at training this morning.
Watson will resume training tomorrow morning with the playing list ahead of next week’s NAB Cup opener against Collingwood and the Western Bulldogs at Etihad Stadium.
The reigning Brownlow Medallist thanked fans for their concern earlier this afternoon.
"My leg is fine but thank you all for your concern," he said

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2013-02-04/captain-cleared


Scans reveal minor injury to Watson

By Staff Writers Exclusive to essendonfc.com.au 7:18pm AEDT Tuesday, February 5, 2013


Essendon captain Jobe Watson will miss the opening round of the NAB Cup after scans revealed a minor strain to his knee following a collision at training yesterday.

The skipper told essendonfc.com.au despite the setback, he is still on track for the first round of the
home
and away season.

"I got a corky yesterday during training and this morning I woke up with a bit of knee soreness, so We decided to get a scan and unfortunately I have a grade one lateral strain of the ligament," Watson said.

"I suppose in knee terms it is insignificant. I won't play in the opening round of the NAB Cup but should be fine for the second game in Wangaratta.

"It is more of an annoyance really but you have to respect the injury."

Watson's injury doesn't require surgery and he will be able to continue pre-season training.
http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2013-02-05/scans-reveal-minor-injury-to-watson
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Essendon manage to lie to their to their own fans on their own website.Its impossible to believe anything that comes out of windy hill the last few years.

Talk about the blind leading the blind
 
JeffDunne said:
I did? Not sure how you worked that out.

My views on this have been guided by comments of people in the medical profession.

Gerard Healy's admission is in my book still the most damning aspect for the AFL and Essendon officials. get those medical professionals under oath - including Essendon's doctor of 30 years - and I think you'll find Essendon officials were still fully aware there were at best questionable practices being used 12 months ago.

The absolute farce of a press conference given early in the week showed Essendon officials are still prepared to lie to cover their arse. The timing of the press conference & their lies simply confirms that at best they were negligent - at worst criminal.

Either way they should all be sacked in disgrace and banned from any future involvement in the game.
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Bolded bit is another example of second guessing about the press conference and letting personal hatred of Essendon cloud your judgement.

Essendon had a meeting at AFL house where they showed the AFL what they'd found out and the AFL told them what they knew as well. They were still in a state of shock and not sure what was going on ... therefore, ashen faces are natural. Because ESSENDON REQUESTED THAT ASADA INVESTIGATE a hasty press conference was called, so that they released the ONLY FACTS at that time .. THAT THERE WOULD BE AN ASADA INVESTIGATION but because they didn't want to preempt the results of the investigation or could not talk about a criminal investigation their hands were bound on what they could or couldn't answer.
 
JeffDunne said:
Insulin would only be of use on match days.
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Not necessarily. It is an 'anabolic' hormone whether made naturally by the body, or taken from external sources.

Body builders have been known to include it in their 'stack'
 
jerry springer said:
Essendon manage to lie to their to their own fans on their own website.Its impossible to believe anything that comes out of windy hill the last few years.

Talk about the blind leading the blind
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It's not a lie if you believe it. :)

I think the problem is the amount of time it takes for medical advice to sink in to those running the club.
 
Daytripper said:
Really - then wake me up when they find enough evidence for a charge. There are no positive tests, no old samples afaik and no seizures of any drugs from any of the key players.


My point is that unless specific facts come out then the public will quickly tire of it.
They are already tiring of it IMO.

Innuendo and gossip will only carry a story so far.
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Of course the public will quickly tire of it, but the investigation will continue largely unabated.

We have no idea what evidence the ACC have of wrongdoing. My guess is that it may be fairly substantial, do they have evidence seized from suppliers though, no idea.

The claims are they have followed the supply chains from manufacturer, to finally the users. It would not surprise me if they have material seized by customs, with paper trails and visual+audio confirmation, linking the orders to local suppliers or clinics. Or perhaps they simply gathered intelligence, each step of the way, following the transfer and sale of the banned material.

We are talking a combined effort by the federal police, ASIO, customs and state police agencies, over a twelve month period.
 
As regards to the P.17 club:

the released information pointed to 2 overwhelming possibilities. Essendon and Manly.

Every road seemed to lead to Essendon whichever way anybody looked at it. I thought/think it was Essendon. They only thing that gave me pause to doubt was the wording of coaches complicity in team doping. That to me pointed to everything that is known about Haslers deep partnership with Dank while at Manly. Would Hird and Thompson really conspire with Dank? that was my only cause for pause. And if Thompson would, then why wasn't it 2 Clubs instead of A Club.

But still, the Dank merry-go-round had stopped at Essendon while the ACC was investigating.

Essendon are still in a WORLD OF HURT.

Caro is the only person saying she believes they are not the p.17 team.

It may be a Cat 10 storm at Essendon. It may only be a Cat8 though.

The egotistical quickfix merchants at Essendon are still exposed as being such.

They employed Dank and Robinson to perform a quick fix.

Whater It Takes.
 
evo said:
Not necessarily. It is an 'anabolic' hormone whether made naturally by the body, or taken from external sources.

Body builders have been known to include it in their 'stack'
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Cheers.

I'm speaking purely as a diabetic . . . so I also include it in my 'stack'. Hasn't helped me in the body-building though. :oops:
 
Lance Uppercut said:
now I can't accuse them of cheating but by god they are liars!!
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Ive never accused your club of cheating,if anything I think you will scrape through this due to the AFL's poor drug testing policies, general ineptness and malaise.

But blind freddy can see how rotten to the core your club has become over the past few years.sad thing to happen to what was once the powerhouse of the AFL
 
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