Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XII - 💰💰💰

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[Keystone agony]

Really now it should only be

1) Free Agents
2) Cheap buys that could be value (Finn M, Kostanty, Prior, Sharp ect)
3) Draft

I don't disagree with most of what you have said I just think the bolded should be happening this year (but also including players in the 25-30 bracket).
I know the answer is "dodoro was in charge now Rosa is" but it's disappointing that we get to this spot at the end of year 2.

What were you saying at Round 17 when we were 4th on the ladder?

 

[Howard Moon]

Code sport headline: “bombers take strong stance as giants circle Stringer”

What Rosa actually said: ““I won’t speculate (on pick 56 being part of the trade) given no official request has been made. But like any other player, the fact that Jake’s a contracted player, it would need to be adequate compensation.”

Seems some way off a “strong stance” to me. The rags really do miss dodo.

What Rosa actually said was ..

-We will see where it all falls
-Lots of water to go under the bridge
-A lot still to play out
-Many things are yet to unfold
-a lot of balls are still in the air

 

[ant555]

What Rosa actually said was ..

-We will see where it all falls
-Lots of water to go under the bridge
-A lot still to play out
-Many things are yet to unfold
-a lot of balls are still in the air

The AFL book of trade week talk for list managers. A must have for any list manager doing media

A way to say nothing and try and make people think you are saying something

It would be interesting if someone swapped in the politics book of how to blame the other guy.

 

[BrunoV]

I don't disagree with most of what you have said I just think the bolded should be happening this year (but also including players in the 25-30 bracket).
I know the answer is "dodoro was in charge now Rosa is" but it's disappointing that we get to this spot at the end of year 2.

The bolded should have happened at the end of 2022 but the club decided that it was all Rutten's fault and absolved the players (when both were the issue).

Let's just say Scott can cower behind convention and that it was acceptable or necessary to have a look at the list, the clean out should have happened at the end of Scott's first year. Not only didn't the clean out happen at the end of year 1, now a clean out cannot happen until the end of year 3.

I think people need to get a much better grasp of what is and isn't acceptable and what types of mistakes can be forgive as part of the learning curve. In what industry are you allowed to get it completely wrong and demand more patience? As I have said repeatedly, almost every example of a club being said to have had success because it chose stability over an irrational sacking had a very clear picture by the end of year 4 of a rebuild on the capacity of the list. Not only are we at the end of year 4 with little reliable feel for the capacity of the list, we have managed our list like we are at the start of a dynasty.

We all make mistakes but I doubt I'd survive 10% of the mistakes, being critical errors of judgement, these people make. I wouldn't want to be in a workplaces that tolerates much more, to be honest.

 

[Keystone agony]

The bolded should have happened at the end of 2022 but the club decided that it was all Rutten's fault and absolved the players (when both were the issue).

Let's just say Scott can cower behind convention and that it was acceptable or necessary to have a look at the list, the clean out should have happened at the end of Scott's first year. Not only didn't the clean out happen at the end of year 1, now a clean out cannot happen until the end of year 3.

I think people need to get a much better grasp of what is and isn't acceptable and what types of mistakes can be forgive as part of the learning curve. In what industry are you allowed to get it completely wrong and demand more patience? As I have said repeatedly, almost every example of a club being said to have chosen stability over an irrational sacking had a very clear picture by the end of year 4 of a rebuild on the capacity of the list. Not only are we at the end of year 4 with little reliable feel for the capacity of the list, we have managed our list like we are at the start of a dynasty.

We all make mistakes but I doubt I'd survive 10% of the mistakes, being critical errors of judgement, these people make. I wouldn't want to be in a workplaces that tolerates much more, to be honest.

If you clean out too early then you may never see the full potential

Very fair for Scott to look at the group for 12 months before making any significant calls

Always alot easier in hindsight

Its tough because weve looked really solid half way through each year

Like what names do you want cleared out? excluding Stringer, Lav and Shiel which were already trying to do

 

[ant555]

The bolded should have happened at the end of 2022 but the club decided that it was all Rutten's fault and absolved the players (when both were the issue).

Let's just say Scott can cower behind convention and that it was acceptable or necessary to have a look at the list, the clean out should have happened at the end of Scott's first year. Not only didn't the clean out happen at the end of year 1, now a clean out cannot happen until the end of year 3.

I think people need to get a much better grasp of what is and isn't acceptable and what types of mistakes can be forgive as part of the learning curve. In what industry are you allowed to get it completely wrong and demand more patience? As I have said repeatedly, almost every example of a a club being said to have chosen stability over an irrational sacking had a very clear picture by the end of year 4 of a rebuild on the capacity of the list. Not only are we at the end of year 4 and do we have little reliable feel for the capacity of the list, we have managed our list like we are at the start of a dynasty.

We all make mistakes but I doubt I'd survive 10% of the mistakes, being critical errors of judgement, these people make. I wouldn't want to be in a workplaces that tolerates much more, to be honest.

Find me an example where a club has started a rebuild then two years in changed a key component in the coach but he is not the first choice. Changed the bloke (CEO) who is in charge of the daily operations. Again not the first choice. Not been able to move out the architect that started the build until almost the end of the second year.
Yes we started 4 years ago but that has been wiped out by major changes to those shaping the rebuild.
The reason that no one has any patience is because there are monumental stuff ups in the past and everyone gets to their own point where it is just too much to hear patience again.
It is not like we are coming from a position of strength and ****ing it up. Then you have the fact that they guy given the task of building the list for the next rebuild is the guy who has been average for 15 years and only actually pushed out of the club this year.
When you talk about business and footy clubs it reminds me of the book Footy Unlimited which is about footy in the late seventies and eighties. There is a comment in there about how all these business tycoons come in as president along the lines of we can turn it around and run it like a business and it will work but 80% of them fail.

Just out of interest who makes the decision to clean out guys at the end of 2022 when you hire a coach virtually the week before the trade period and he is not your first choice and you had to encourage him to do it and the result of that is he has no in depth list analysis ? Serious question ? Are you saying Adrian needed to kick his guys to the curve ?
Is it any wonder we are where we are now ?

 

[Beerfish]

Like what names do you want cleared out? excluding Stringer, Lav and Shiel which were already trying to do

Martin. The most overrated player in the AFL.

 

[dank420_]

Like what names do you want cleared out?

I believe he mentioned Merrett the other day.

 

[ant555]

I believe he mentioned Merrett the other day.

Parish is the number 1.

 

[Milanista28]

Does Parish suit the dogs after losing Smith and Macrae? Could get a F1st if we paid some salary.

I wish you clubs could trade players without consent, would make things more fun.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Really now it should only be

1) Free Agents
2) Cheap buys that could be value (Finn M, Kostanty, Prior, Sharp ect)
3) Draft



What were you saying at Round 17 when we were 4th on the ladder?

I've been pretty consistent the whole year that the list isn't where it needs to be.
I was happy pre bye with the team effort and tweaks we had made to team structure for most part (im actually a defender of the martin to backline move) but was under no illusion that we were a genuine top 4 team.
I don't care that we finished 11th because I think that's what we are, a middle of the road team, but it's the way we approached the 2nd half of year and this off season (so far) that annoys me, it has me doubting statements Scott and the Club have said that I had previously taken on face value.

 

[katana]

Does Parish suit the dogs after losing Smith and Macrae? Could get a F1st if we paid some salary.

I wish you clubs could trade players without consent, would make things more fun.

even more fun if the other club didn't have to consent either.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Parish is the number 1.

I didn't have an issue with signing parish and at time I defended the contract length because I was under impression it was a salary cap management move.
But in hindsight it really was a poor move and his and a few other similar contracts/extensions given out end of last year/start of this year have hamstrung our ability to reshape the list.
I know dodoro was still involved but I don't think Scott gets as much as as a pass as he did for calls made when he first came on board.

 

[Keystone agony]

I've been pretty consistent the whole year that the list isn't where it needs to be.
I was happy pre bye with the team effort and tweaks we had made to team structure for most part (im actually a defender of the martin to backline move) but was under no illusion that we were a genuine top 4 team.
I don't care that we finished 11th because I think that's what we are, a middle of the road team, but it's the way we approached the 2nd half of year and this off season (so far) that annoys me, it has me doubting statements Scott and the Club have said that I had previously taken on face value.

Yes but many are unrealistic and want an All Australian squad, which just isnt possible

There is only so much that you can do

What have Scott and the club said that youve taken on face value?

 

[jdstorm]

No Parish = No McKay = huge cap hole with no talent to spend it on.

Possibly BZT still at FB and no dursma.

I’d take this present outcome over that 100/100 times especially with this org’s draft record.

sometimes people get too caught up with the what and ignore the why.

It’s pretty reasonable to expect a significantly better season next year from this team.

How it compares to others improvements is questionable but a better team due to better depth and balance and 1-2 high end rookies

 

[ant555]

I didn't have an issue with signing parish and at time I defended the contract length because I was under impression it was a salary cap management move.
But in hindsight it really was a poor move and his and a few other similar contracts/extensions given out end of last year/start of this year have hamstrung our ability to reshape the list.
I know dodoro was still involved but I don't think Scott gets as much as as a pass as he did for calls made when he first came on board.

I am not in the Parish fan club but the big drop off in form is injury related.
Yes he is a accumulator who is not a HBG player around the ground and his kicks are not always something special but he is not as bad a player as he is made out to be by some. When we gave him the extension Scott wanted him. He would not have had a lot of impact into contract length as far as 4 or 5 or 6 years go. He simply would have said yes I plan to fit him in the side in the foreseeable future.
The contract length is on Dodoro and Vozzo. It was last year. Scott is not to know he would have two 3 plus week injuries this year. Personally for me the window was missed in 2021 when he had a year to go and he would have got a pick in the 5 to 12 range IMO. Once he got into FA territory and he had a down year compared to previous impact it was always going to questionable if he got band one compo.
Maybe he would have but we will never know. That is not to say that in the 2021 draft we would have made a mess of it but the pick 5 to 15 area of that draft is very good.
As much as I am not a huge Parish fan I do not see him as a major issue over another 5 years other than two years in a row with injury now. He can play. You can fit him into a role if you have a mixture of types. If he has another injury interrupted year he may want out and his salary is not going to be huge in the next salary cap.

McGrath got too many as well but he is salvageable if we put some decent ball users in the back half with him. He can defend when he is playing well. Just have to take away the responsibility of him having to move the footy all the time.

If there is one contract that worries me more it is 2MP. If he has another dud year no one will want him and he will still have 2026 and 2027 left.

 

[ant555]

And I was saying Parish is Bruno's number one out of the cannon. Not mine

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I am not in the Parish fan club but the big drop off in form is injury related.
Yes he is a accumulator who is not a HBG player around the ground and his kicks are not always something special but he is not as bad a player as he is made out to be by some. When we gave him the extension Scott wanted him. He would not have had a lot of impact into contract length as far as 4 or 5 or 6 years go. He simply would have said yes I plan to fit him in the side in the foreseeable future.
The contract length is on Dodoro and Vozzo. It was last year. Scott is not to know he would have two 3 plus week injuries this year. Personally for me the window was missed in 2021 when he had a year to go and he would have got a pick in the 5 to 12 range IMO. Once he got into FA territory and he had a down year compared to previous impact it was always going to questionable if he got band one compo.
Maybe he would have but we will never know. That is not to say that in the 2021 draft we would have made a mess of it but the pick 5 to 15 area of that draft is very good.
As much as I am not a huge Parish fan I do not see him as a major issue over another 5 years other than two years in a row with injury now. He can play. You can fit him into a role if you have a mixture of types. If he has another injury interrupted year he may want out and his salary is not going to be huge in the next salary cap.

McGrath got too many as well but he is salvageable if we put some decent ball users in the back half with him. He can defend when he is playing well. Just have to take away the responsibility of him having to move the footy all the time.

If there is one contract that worries me more it is 2MP. If he has another dud year no one will want him and he will still have 2026 and 2027 left.

Yeah 100% agree re wright.
Just to clarify, when I said "in hindsight" it wasn't in relation to the injuries, it was in relation to how we ended up using durham/caldwell this year. Plus hobbs/tstatas waiting in wings in vfl. For first time in ages we actually have decent midifield depth so I think locking in a solid B grade mid long term wasn't necessary.

 

[ant555]

Yeah 100% agree re wright.
Just to clarify, when I said "in hindsight" it wasn't in relation to the injuries, it was in relation to how we ended up using durham/caldwell this year. Plus hobbs/tstatas waiting in wings in vfl. For first time in ages we actually have decent midifield depth so I think locking in a solid B grade mid long term wasn't necessary.

As you say hindsight but that is easy. You can say it was a mistake but using Durham / Hobbs / Caldwell / Tsatas is not realistic as every club tries to run in 8 or 9 midfielders at any one time. We would not lose a game if we could send the terminator back and change it.
Funny thing is there has been several of the why are Essendon not doing anything media also saying we need midfield depth.

 

[Keystone agony]

No Parish = No McKay = huge cap hole with no talent to spend it on.

Possibly BZT still at FB and no dursma.

I’d take this present outcome over that 100/100 times especially with this org’s draft record.

sometimes people get too caught up with the what and ignore the why.

It’s pretty reasonable to expect a significantly better season next year from this team.

How it compares to others improvements is questionable but a better team due to better depth and balance and 1-2 high end rookies

I think were worse next year, but things are very even

Crows - adding Peatling, ANB, Cumming

Pies - Perryman, maybe Houston

Melbourne - Have a better 22 even losing ANB, whether they can sort out the politics or not is the question and what Oliver you get (Trac, Gawn, Oliver, Viney, Kozzie, May, Lever, Fritsch) group is still elite

Stkilda - Finished the year very well, King returns. Wanganeen/Owens/Windhaeger/Wilson looks ok. Theyre a side i think were probably still better than

GC Suns - Really starting to enter a good age. Lombard ready to go, the 3 Academy kids all improve a fair bit next year. Rioli, Noble