Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XII - 💰💰💰

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Yoda_ said:
the point was how much "topping up" does one need to do before reality hits we're not close.. If we were playing in finals, winning them and needed that punch, sure. We haven't made finals let alone won and we are talking about topping up on topping up what we have topped up with. Doesn't make sense. Salary or not. The guys we have brought in are not game changers. They are not true stars so mere role players
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It’s not ‘topping up’

It’s bringing in some incremental improvements to the list while keeping our draft hand as intact as possible.
 
Megabattimus said:
Brilliant idea. Let's blow the list up for draft picks so we can draft more duds. Sure, by your logic we've messed up every pick except for Caddy. But hey, give us a few more darts and we'll surely nail them this time.

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The draft is the only way to get a number of game changing players cheaply though. And you don’t go far in September with game changing players. You would hope the club is investing more into the drafting and development aspect before making a big tilt at the draft, but I wouldn’t be opposed to some judicious trading of established players to get a better draft hand.
 
Surely Houston is high in terms of need?

Best kick inside 50 in the comp, competitor, rarely gets beaten 1on1, right age profile

Means Marto can go fwd/wing
 

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Laverdeee said:
Surely Houston is high in terms of need?

Best kick inside 50 in the comp, competitor, rarely gets beaten 1on1, right age profile

Means Marto can go fwd/wing
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It's not that he isn't a gun, it's that he'd cost a first and change minimum, probably two firsts.
 
Yoda_ said:
the point was how much "topping up" does one need to do before reality hits we're not close..
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What is it with this we were "topping up" trope? If that was the case would've done something like signing a 29 year old Barrass with first rounders going the other way.

The club saw an opportunity to fill out holes in the side with players that suited the demographic of the list without jeaporadising the draft hand.

The very fact that we focused on players that suited the age demographic of the list bar Goldy (who was meant to be a back-up) was with the hope that they would have time to gel with the list and push forward as a collective from 2024 and into the coming years.

Everyone knew the players we brought in weren't A-grade players, we knew full well they were additions for the sake of balancing out the side. And, if you were to spend time trying to reshape a list using only the draft (which we have and will continue to do so with our draft hand) we'd be spending 10+ years doing it that way.
 
Old Campaigner said:
It’s not ‘topping up’

It’s bringing in some incremental improvements to the list while keeping our draft hand as intact as possible.
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yep, I dont understand the logic that brining in role players (that fit gaping holes in the list) without using up draft capital is a bad thing. These guys are just about to hit their prime years too so its not a short term band-aid either.
Anyway its a moot point, sounds like both will stay at GWS (or Perryman will end up in SA if he leaves).
 
Call Me Cake said:
What is it with this we were "topping up" trope? If that was the case would've done something like signing a 29 year old Barrass with first rounders going the other way.

The club saw an opportunity to fill out holes in the side with players that suited the demographic of the list without jeaporadising the draft hand.

The very fact that we focused on players that suited the age demographic of the list bar Goldy (who was meant to be a back-up) was with the hope that they would have time to gel with the list and push forward as a collective from 2024 and into the coming years.

Everyone knew the players we brought in weren't A-grade players, we knew full well they were additions for the sake of balancing out the side. And, if you were to spend time trying to reshape a list using only the draft (which we have and will continue to do so with our draft hand) we'd be spending 10+ years doing it that way.
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We’ve done 10+ years of this shit and it’s taken us precisely nowhere. Balancing the list with “good acquisitions”

Goddard
Chapman
Gwilt
Cooney
Giles
Leuenberger
Bird
James Kelly
Smith
Saad
Stringer
Shiel
Wright
Hind
Jake Kelly
Setterfield
Goldstein
McKay
Gresham
Duursma

It’s got us absolutely nowhere.

Unfortunately we have had some terrible draft selections too.

But that doesn’t mean we can just give up on it. It’s more of a reason to go harder - because if we don’t, we’ll have an huge hole at this age profile.

Almost every successful side has a core of players from high in the draft. Because it’s the only place you can get the elite quality cheap.

At free agency you pay overs in money. At trade you pay overs in draft picks.

We’ve got a reliable core in Merrett, Durham, Martin, McGrath, Langford, Caldwell, Jones, Draper and McKay who provide some experience and (in some cases) leadership. So we’re not bottoming out like North, but we’re also not winning a flag. We need to bring through elite kids. Caddy looks good.

If trading players like Redman (dime-a-dozen running defender), Parish (no different to what we have otherwise), Ridley (increasingly injured) and Stringer (right age for a contender, but not us) can accelerate that it’s great and we need to seriously look at it. This team is not good enough and these blokes aren’t taking us there.

Moving on Shiel and Parish might even have a very quick pay-off in terms of what we already have (Hobbs, Tsatas).

A decent shake-up is required.
 
B: McGrath - McKay - Kelly
HB: Martin - Reid - Cox
C: Perkins - Merrett - Duursma
HF: Davey - Jones - Guelfi
F: Langford - Caddy - Gresham
R: Draper - Durham - Caldwell
I: Hobbs - Tsatas - Roberts - El-Hawli

Combine that with draft picks that we could get in exchange for Parish, Ridley and Redman (plus whatever Stringer and Shiel land)… and I'd be feeling a hell of a lot better about our age and talent profile.

It’s not much different to what we put out now, except some younger blokes get a chance in their correct positions, and it gives us a chance to accelerate a build around some elite youth. We’d land additional Top 20 picks for Parish, Ridley and Redman.
 
Laverdeee said:
we gonna draft another mid with that first? Our time starts now based on our age profile
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I don't know. Our age profile should drop significantly this off season with no Heppell or Goldy hopefully
 
Bunk Moreland said:
B: McGrath - McKay - Kelly
HB: Martin - Reid - Cox
C: Perkins - Merrett - Duursma
HF: Davey - Jones - Guelfi
F: Langford - Caddy - Gresham
R: Draper - Durham - Caldwell
I: Hobbs - Tsatas - Roberts - El-Hawli

Combine that with draft picks that we could get in exchange for Parish, Ridley and Redman (plus whatever Stringer and Shiel land)… and I'd be feeling a hell of a lot better about our age and talent profile.

It’s not much different to what we put out now, except some younger blokes get a chance in their correct positions, and it gives us a chance to accelerate a build around some elite youth. We’d land additional Top 20 picks for Parish, Ridley and Redman.
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If we are trading Redman ans especially Ridley why not trade Langford too? I can’t see the club blowing it up.
 

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The aging list stuff is a misnomer.

You could shed 4, maybe 5 of our 6 oldest players in one off season and really not lose any on field production.

The oldest 6 are Goldy, Heppell, Shiel, Stringer, Hind and Kelly.

The list is in fine demographic shape, nothing wrong with a strong core group of 26-29 year olds.

I would probably only keep Stringer and Shiel if he wanted to stay.

I could also live with Hind on a one year deal.
 
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Smaller players can play at a high level early if they have an outside game e.g. Daicos / Sheezel / McKercher. For a club that used to draft way too many flankers, we haven't drafted many flankers.

It's also not players 'under' 22 but players who are 22. For example Luke Jackson is 23 on September 1st and gets in, whilst Durham who was 23 on July 9th doesn't. So it's all a bit arbitrary.

No, I don't think our drafting has been out of the park, but in the eligible age bracket we've picked a lot of guys who are extremely tall and commonly don't 'make it' until their mid 20s, some speculative late picks, a couple of F/S Indigenous players.

Caddy looks to absolutely have scope to be very good and quite likely will be on that list next year, and in Hobbs / Tsatas we have guys who don't really have the outside game to impact early. Archie Roberts could also very well be on that list next year.

Make it include 23 year olds and we'd have Caldwell, Jones, Martin & Durham all eligible and I'd say Caldwell, Martin and Durham have all looked like very good AFL players this season.

North undoubtedly look good with Sheezel, Wardlaw and McKercher, but add 23 year olds and you get... Dylan Stephens, Bigoa Nguyen and Charlie Comben (who admittedly is looking promising). Collingwood have Nick Daicos and you could go to 23 and add Beau McCreery.

As the old saying goes; it's never as good or as bad as it seems.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Goddard
Chapman
Gwilt
Cooney
Giles
Leuenberger
Bird
James Kelly
Smith
Saad
Stringer
Shiel
Wright
Hind
Jake Kelly
Setterfield

It’s got us absolutely nowhere.
Click to expand...

Cooney was 30 when he came to Essendon, Goddard was 28, Chapman was 33. I'm going to assume you don't have an IQ of 3... surely.

Secondly, a handful of the players you listed were the result of the needed top-up due to the saga banning a lot of the players. There is seriously no way you're not trolling when it comes to naming those players. I feel like I'm doing a disservice to my own self-respect even acknowledging that let alone responding to it.

Also, you then list the players we just brought into the door and have the audacity to claim "it's got us no where", as in, already looking ahead and staking a claim. We literally just brought them in for no picks out the door and you're already pushing this narrative that they were supposed to somehow put us in contention, when going into this year we were expected to finish in the bottom 2 even post said acquisitions. Again, I feel like I'm insulting myself responding to you.

Thirdly, everyone accepts that Smith and Stringer were mistakes. Those were mistakes of the past. Shiel didn't turn out to cost us that much in hindsight in the sense that we picked up Caldwell which was taken with one of the picks we gave out (yes I'm aware we gave another nothing pick out when bringing in Jye) and the fact that Shiel has been pretty instrumental as of late/could still net us something back on a possible departure.

Bunk Moreland said:
We’ve done 10+ years of this shit and it’s taken us precisely nowhere. Balancing the list with “good acquisitions”
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You're comparing the last 10 years to what began from 2023. You can't be serious right? For the first time in the 10+ years we've been able to go without a non-footballing scandal (touch wood).

Those 10 years have nothing to do with what's been happening post-Scott's appointment. Those 10 years were a horrible time in the football club, marred by a saga no one would wish on anyone else, with a mess that dated back to how we handled Sheedy's departure/the aftermath of that.

Since the sacking of Rutten, we've taken action to overhaul the board, the staff, the CEO et al, coach and the culture of the club/professional expectations. This is a hell of a lot to do in a few years for any club, let alone just over 12 months.

And the road was never meant to be a quick one. We, as a supporter base, understood that it was time to recognize the reality of how much we were hoping to change inwardly and outwardly and to see it out for 4+ years provided that visible progress could be seen in terms of consistency or attitude.

Bunk Moreland said:
Unfortunately we have had some terrible draft selections too.
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During a time when we were handing them out, especially post-saga, which was not what we should've been doing. Again, has nothing to do with the 2023+ mantra, in which we've prioritised keeping our draft hand during an ambition to even out the list and focus on football first.

Bunk Moreland said:
But that doesn’t mean we can just give up on it. It’s more of a reason to go harder - because if we don’t, we’ll have an huge hole at this age profile.
Click to expand...

Almost every successful side has gone through a money-ball period where they have acquired role players, attacked the draft (which we will continue to do so so), developed their players and attracted a big fish here or there (which we are also poised to do).

However, the biggest focus for us first and foremost was establishing a proper culture and professionalism among the group, everything else comes after. We are also not as old as you think and with the exclusion of Heppell and Goldy we are actually near the bottom for average age and experience in terms of the overall selected playing list. And, people's expectations of a list doesn't change unless they start being more consistent in matches and ultimately finals. You're jumping the gun and comparing things that are unrelated to each other.
 
Serious question marks have to be levelled at the club with our recent drafting.

People don’t realise it yet but our club is set back another 10 years if the current crop don’t kick on. (Cox, Perkins, Reid, Hobbs, Tsatsas, Hayes, Caddy)
 
Mikevk123 said:
Serious question marks have to be levelled at the club with our recent drafting.

People don’t realise it yet but our club is set back another 10 years if the current crop don’t kick on. (Cox, Perkins, Reid, Hobbs, Tsatsas, Hayes, Caddy)
Click to expand...

And if they don’t kick we have to have the self awareness to say it’s not because we’ve picked the wrong kids, it’s because our management of them and our investment in their development has been nothing short of atrocious.
 
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Stick to the plan of rebuilding the list from the bottom up while using cap space for free agents who can fill a few gaps in the list as we go. Its a solid approach to turning the list over that will keep our age demographic balanced.

As Tex mentioned the list is starting to feel like 1 team rather than an AFL/VFL division. We are getting there in terms of list build, keep phasing out the veterens we dont want and focusing on drafting and development.

We started with the move for Caddy last year and i would like to see us continue to try and be creative with our pick swaps. Use the ability to trade future picks to our advantage the way melbourne did and attack the draft rather than just sit and take best available each year.
 
Nobody wants the players people want to trade for picks. If they did, we'd have heard about it by now.

The players that people do want are ones we shouldn't trade if we're serious about youth (Hobbs, Tsatas, Bryan). We're better off keeping them over the picks we'd receive for them as we'd end up having to draft replacements who are unproven and might end up worse than what we gave up.

The draft is important but I don't see any reason why we should prioritise it so much that we're trading players like Stringer and Parish to get more picks. We're not as bad off as Richmond are and should conduct ourselves as such.

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