AFL's longterm future

[fumbler]

I hate the fact that a player can tackle b player, then b player drops it and the umpire yells out.......... it was forced out play on.

The rule is incorrect disposal, not forced out or came out in the tackle........... INCORRECT DISPOSAL you mugs at the AFL.

Also it's fine to just jump on Martin when he's on the ground and call it tackled, did he even get a chance?

I'm with the op Aussie Rules at the highest level is a wain, it's even bringing local footy down to it's level with it's moronic rules and fast passed stupidity.

 

[Stigmata]

Great posts here and an excellent debate

Yes the round ball is the most played game by kids in schools, in my day it was afl kick to kick at lunch time

But and (like mine) it is a big but afl will still pull kids out of soccer the same We grab kids out of basketball now.

Our best soccer and basketball players will still go to Europe or the USA, but the others will trickle through to AFL.

Is the game in trouble? No more than any other sport. Basketball, baseball, Soccer, League, Cricket, Union and USA football all have so many extra analysts, coaches, managers, fitness staff and development that games are now really focused on minimising scoring, retaining possession (obviously not in cricket and baseball), scoring from errors.

There is a very valid reason for this. While the custodians are there for the game the clubs are there for their fans and everything at club level is about winning and keeping the fan base happy. The paradox! the problem!

I myself think you can like both. Although nothing sparks the passions around the office more than the debate around soccer v footy. For myself the biggest difference is I can watch a decent footy game (there were only two this weekend) to watch a decent round ball game I have to get up at some ungodly time of the morning.. the soccer fans at work all look like the walking dead. It isn’t for me. Like the game like sleep better

 

[Wallaby]

Soccer is way ahead in the marketing of sport - particularly on the 'celebrification' (is that a word?) of it's major teams and stars. Attendance at a lot of major sporting events these days is not people going to see a contest or interested in their team - they are going to see the 'brand'. There has always been some celeb factor in sports (we all got our autographs of players when I was growing up - what the hell for? I didn't care how Royce Hart signed his name. I cared about how he played football, But I was taught to value his signature).

Because of global communications - satellite television from the 70s and 80s, and now the internet, it is possible to follow sport around the world without even being in the same country. You can criticise team selection on web forums. You can chat with like-minded individuals about how lousy the coach is.

But more than this - it has led to a pure celebrity-based sports following, where many 'fans' follow the major brands - be they players or teams - regardless of their actual quality of play they are seeing (of course, playing ability is the major reason brands get created in the first place). We laugh at people going to watch glorified soccer practice matches at the MCG - all 90,000 of them (not forgetting the 10,000 or so who paid to watch training sessions). The All Blacks did a similar tour of the USA earlier this year - the USA cares nothing about Rugby, but everyone has heard of the All Black brand. People turned up.

It's the reason people go to the Olympics - it's not the sport, it's the brand. People actually bought tickets to watch Synchronised *****ing Swimming at the Olympics!!! Why?? Brand!! No one goes to athletic meetings outside Olympics and Worlds - unless Bolt is there, because he's a big sporting celeb - pretty much the only one in athletics.

We see it here in AFL - an interstate game involving the Melbourne Big 4 gets a bigger crowd - not all just ex-pats, but the locals are curious to see the better-known clubs. Carlton and Collingwood are better celebrity brands than the Bulldogs or North. Nothing to do with playing ability.

But because AFL is not an international sport, we will never achieve the same brand recognition that soccer does. Australia does not have enough international appeal. NFL is only played in one country - but purely because of the power of the USA cultural impact via media, their exhibition matches sell out around the world. Everyone knows the Cowboys, the 49ers, etc. Brands. AFL teams and players are the equivalent of your local corner shop struggling for recognition against the giant supermarkets.

 

[Punt Road Feral]

I watched half of the first quarter yesterday and then turned off the TV to mow the lawn and walk the dog. Like most here I have followed Richmond all my life and played footy to my mid 20's, yet the first quarter was my breaking point. 36 players within 50m of the ball, endless contests and zero excitement. I have had enough. I nearly gave up last year after the first Sydney game but still stuck fat, however until the AFL shakes this game up I am over it and will only watch us play freer flowing teams. For the first time in my life I have something to be excited about with Richmond (was born in '81) except I am not.
Some of the issues are:
In only 5 games this year have both teams scored over 100 points
Lowest average scores since the 60's
Too much dilution of talent with 18 teams. This has seen more Athletes play who can get to contests, tackle, harrass but little else causing more stoppages and stopping the best players playing with flair
More turnovers and clangers than ever before due to the number of below AFL players playing
Expansion teams that will never ever make it, yet big clubs like ours are expected to subsidise them in perpetuity
Poorly run clubs like bulldogs and North get bailed out continually. No matter how many mistakes they make off the field, all at the expense of the well run
Politicisation of the AFL around left wing causes (Green round, Recognise round, boing Adam Goodes etc)
In my view it can all be sheeted home to 2 people Dometriou and Fitzpatrick and the cosy relationship between management and board. Seems Gil is sort of trying but cheaper pies ain't going to cut it.
My son and his friends are not interested in AFL. Now it does not worry me but I heard Rohan Connolly report the same thing about his son yesterday on radio. Auskick numbers are declining, crowds are declining and this game has serious issues. The game has ben whored out for TV rights dollars at the expense of its soul and I fear it will eventually have neither. When clubs like Geelong are now over $1 million below budgeted revenues and declining membership, when Brisbane have only 24K members after 25 years, When just 22K people watch 2 of the biggest clubs in the land play on a Friday night...
Appreciate much of this has already been discussed on this board but who else is worried about where AFL will be in 10 or 15 years time?

Fantastic post and it sums up my feeling perfectly about the game too.
I guess some people may find Saturday's game interesting and exciting but to me it was just a conservative arm wrestle with both teams scared to lose.

I know most people don't like 'soccer' here and that's their choice. But funnily enough how AAMI Park was rocking over the summer reminded me of what the Tiger army used to do for me but it's slowly faded away over time.
Maybe there's something wrong with me but we are currently 5th yet I'm still not overly enthusiastic about our season or games to date whereas years ago I would've been buzzing at the prospect of a high finish.

 

[Richo is God]

One big reason soccer is growing rapidly in this country is because of a computer game,Fifa.

IMO the main reason for the growth of soccer is that these days with the over protective parents, they don't want their kids getting hurt with the physical contact required by the game.

The way the game has changed is due to the AFL feeling the need to 'slow the game down' for no reason other than injury prevention. You can go back as recently as 5-6 years ago and see just what a dramatic effect this has had on the game. The sub rule and capped interchanges are ruining this once great game. For some reason they feel the need to add new rules or change existing ones each year for no reason. It's killing the game.

 

[Cotcho]

Don't have a problem with it. They used to do kick to kick 30 years ago. Was absolute garbage. Games good now and teams that play fast skillful footy win. Geelong 2007-2011 and Hawthorn 2013-2015. Attacking good footy wins flags so don't really need to do anything.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Oh and just one other point , the AFL has headed in the direction of having school teachers heavily involved in grass roots football .like it or not kids often play sport to get away from school teachers and parents .

 

[fumbler]

Soccer will never be huge in Australia unless the government force feeds it to us or the SBS becomes a major network.

Look at the A-League, ok some teams are surging forward while others hang on by a finger nail but they never seem to get great attendances at every big game...... they're like the NRL all over the place.
Then they have the Newcastle, Central Coast, Wellington and Brisbane sides all looking at financial loses and a few are looking at selling including the Roar who have also lost the Coffee Club as sponsors

http://ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=att&season=2014-15

Club Total Average Highest Attendance Lowest Attendance
 
 
Melbourne Victory 436,152 27,260 50,873 - Rnd F2 vs MCY 18,205 - Rnd 23 vs CCM
Sydney FC 252,703 18,050 41,213 - Rnd 2 vs WSW 11,280 - Rnd 9 vs PER
Adelaide United 197,077 13,138 33,126 - Rnd 2 vs MVC 7,767 - Rnd 21 vs CCM
Western Sydney Wanderers 175,284 12,520 19,484 - Rnd 19 vs SYD 7,239 - Rnd 10 vs MCY
Brisbane Roar 151,586 11,660 17,131 - Rnd 5 vs MCY 6,148 - Rnd 24 vs CCM
Melbourne City 134,859 10,374 26,372 - Rnd 11 vs MVC 5,867 - Rnd 21 vs NEW
Perth Glory 133,584 9,542 12,271 - Rnd 15 vs MVC 5,821 - Rnd 26 vs MCY
Newcastle Jets 116,587 8,968 11,884 - Rnd 5 vs MVC 4,162 - Rnd 24 vs PER
Wellington Phoenix 130,339 8,689 13,248 - Rnd 27 vs SYD 6,236 - Rnd 23 vs SYD
Central Coast Mariners 98,605 7,585 12,102 - Rnd 15 vs SYD 4,508 - Rnd 16 vs ADL
 
Total: 1,826,776 13,048 50,873 - MVC vs MCY 4,162 - NEW vs PER

* This record excludes figures from Pre-Season games

 

[Bachars Beard]

The biggest issue with the AFL is their investment in teams like GWS at the expense of heartland teams. The investment is required, I get that it's a new team, but it's the overspend or the extra's they get which frustrates me. It's creating an uneven or false competition beyond the standard up and down cycles sports teams go through. The AFL will never take over in Western Sydney, the team barely even represent the area anyway, the players live in the Eastern Suburbs and their affiliate club is in the Northern Suburbs.

It's 20+ million dollars of dead money every year. Look at what doctored success did for the Lions, they were on top for a period and now they barely even exists in the Brisbane landscape, although taking a large portion of their fans (those on the GC) and giving them an even worse team on the gold coast didn't help.

If they want a competition to be exciting make all the teams competitive, how many genuine upsets do we see these days?

I don't have an issue with the quality of the football (if we could kick straight I'd be slightly happier), these things have always worked in cycles.

 

[RunningBounce]

Nothing wrong with Aussie Rules, IMO, but there is something wrong with AFL.

Most weekends, I watch multiple games of footy – sometimes suburban leagues, often juniors, sometimes Superules, sometimes VFL, and always AFL. This season, AFL is the level that is the worst to watch.

My major issue with the “state of the game” is the lack of one-on-one contests in AFL. I just love that situation where there is two blokes competing for the ball, and the trajectory / bounce of the ball is a bit chaotic. It happens all the time at lower levels because of skill errors. A shanked kick that bobbles around on the wing as two blokes race for it is bloody exciting! That’s the heart of the game, for me.

It doesn’t happen so much at AFL level because every game plan and every structure employed by every coach is designed to manufacture a situation where the players out-number the opposition, especially in defence and in the corridor.

I firmly believe changing the rules is not an answer. Zones or less players? That’s not Aussie Rules. If that game comes into being, it needs to be given a different name.

My solution is to merge or fold bullshit clubs like GWS and GCS, so the competition only has 12 clubs (that play each other twice and solve the unfairness in the draw). The skills get better instantly because the best 264 players take the field each week across the competition, instead of the current 396 that includes a bunch of honest toilers who are only really reserves level. Perhaps that lets the ball move quicker than players can move to get that numerical advantage (ala Hawthorn carving up Freo).

We’ll see coaches attacking the game more when the players execute better. Currently, they have to set the players up for the inevitable situation where a dud player gets the ball and turns it over.

 

[RunningBounce]

Footy shows abound and it's everywhere in print, over analysed and over complicated.

Here, here, brother. I propose a salary cap for footy journalists. Too many of them, by half.

 

[RunningBounce]

Turn the game into shit at the highest level and be buggered if blokes will run around D grade amateurs to set up at stoppages and rotate 20 times thru the bench. Drag me after I kick a goal. **** off!!
They talk about speccies, miracle goals, the occasional punch on and live for next week when they try it on again with their mates.

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're saying... Are you saying amateurs won't play because AFL is shit?

I reckon I go to more suburban and VFL games when the AFL is shit. I still love watching footy, even if I can't name all the players. Ooo, and that added bonus of leaning on a fence with a $5 can with the smell of barbequing onions.

 

[fumbler]

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're saying... Are you saying amateurs won't play because AFL is shit?

I reckon I go to more suburban and VFL games when the AFL is shit. I still love watching footy, even if I can't name all the players. Ooo, and that added bonus of leaning on a fence with a $5 can with the smell of barbequing onions.

Love local footy, I even miss watching the Tigers sometimes to watch a good game of local footy.

 

[offtherails9]

Soccer will never be huge in Australia unless the government force feeds it to us or the SBS becomes a major network.

Look at the A-League, ok some teams are surging forward while others hang on by a finger nail but they never seem to get great attendances at every big game...... they're like the NRL all over the place.
Then they have the Newcastle, Central Coast, Wellington and Brisbane sides all looking at financial loses and a few are looking at selling including the Roar who have also lost the Coffee Club as sponsors

http://ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=att&season=2014-15

Club Total Average Highest Attendance Lowest Attendance


Melbourne Victory 436,152 27,260 50,873 - Rnd F2 vs MCY 18,205 - Rnd 23 vs CCM
Sydney FC 252,703 18,050 41,213 - Rnd 2 vs WSW 11,280 - Rnd 9 vs PER
Adelaide United 197,077 13,138 33,126 - Rnd 2 vs MVC 7,767 - Rnd 21 vs CCM
Western Sydney Wanderers 175,284 12,520 19,484 - Rnd 19 vs SYD 7,239 - Rnd 10 vs MCY
Brisbane Roar 151,586 11,660 17,131 - Rnd 5 vs MCY 6,148 - Rnd 24 vs CCM
Melbourne City 134,859 10,374 26,372 - Rnd 11 vs MVC 5,867 - Rnd 21 vs NEW
Perth Glory 133,584 9,542 12,271 - Rnd 15 vs MVC 5,821 - Rnd 26 vs MCY
Newcastle Jets 116,587 8,968 11,884 - Rnd 5 vs MVC 4,162 - Rnd 24 vs PER
Wellington Phoenix 130,339 8,689 13,248 - Rnd 27 vs SYD 6,236 - Rnd 23 vs SYD
Central Coast Mariners 98,605 7,585 12,102 - Rnd 15 vs SYD 4,508 - Rnd 16 vs ADL

Total: 1,826,776 13,048 50,873 - MVC vs MCY 4,162 - NEW vs PER

* This record excludes figures from Pre-Season games

I don't think it's the A League that's the problem though. It's FIFA, it's Ronaldo, it's Messi. These kids will barely ever watch a game as they're in the middle of the night but still will follow it to an extent through social media, YouTube and video games. I'm kind of stuck to say what the AFL should do to bring the young kids back to footy though, would plugging heaps of money into an AFL video game help?

 

[Sol23]

Basketball is the worst sport going round, bunch of overpaid softies running round the court, with absolutely no body contact! What a pathetic game

 

[Hank Heavenly]

I think for the first time in this games history, zones need to be considered. Forward players from one club can't enter the forward line of another, vice Versa, there must always be 4 players in both teams forward half at all times. Things like this could really stop the congestion around stoppages.

Trust me, you cant control that in U9's when kids actually listen let alone grown adults!

 

[Livonski]

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're saying... Are you saying amateurs won't play because AFL is shit?

I reckon I go to more suburban and VFL games when the AFL is shit. I still love watching footy, even if I can't name all the players. Ooo, and that added bonus of leaning on a fence with a $5 can with the smell of barbequing onions.

Eventually. Yes.
The current crop grew up loving the game.
Behind them is a generation of kids watching stoppages, blokes who can't kick left foot, one speccy per week instead of two per game, 120 rotations and a plus one behind the ball at all times.
If this game is to compete for our kids in a global market it needs gifted stars that are allowed to showcase their skills and amaze the crowd. Not fight against 2 defenders and bring the ball to ground to create a stoppage. You won't see Messi or Ronaldo doing that shit.

 

[RobsJourney]

Footy is the best sport going around and it will go through its phases and its ups n downs but as an earlier poster said, fast, attacking, skillful footy wins finals and always will, not some of the bullcrap that you see in the H&A season, which is nothing new it's always been like that... Go back and look at any season in your memory and there will have been many shit, scrappy, congested, low-skill affairs. It's the nature of the sport.
But there are just as many awesome contests and exciting goal for goal matches that erupt in the last 5 or 10 mins with crowds going crazy even before the finals begin.

I'm not a huge huge fan of the press and the way it has all 36 players in one half, but the games don't always play out that way.

No way in hell should we introduce zones, it's bad enough we introduced subs and rotation caps, it would be just another thing that needs to be policed and it would massively complicate things.

One of the biggest issues I thought was when the AFL introduced the quick play-on from behinds. They tried to speed the game up by giving opposition defences less time to man up, effectively meaning the ball is in constant flow. They've also sped the game up ridiculously around the ground by no longer bouncing the ball at stoppages in favor of a really quick throw up, and forcing players to play on the moment they step a millimetre off their mark and rushing them to make a move.
It's the AFL's own fault for having the game umpired that way.
Now they're trying to slow it down again with rotation caps and who knows what next...fools.
I say slow it down by returning to the old days of waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flags, at stoppages bounce the ball, and when a player marks it stop rushing the f u ck out of them- reward the mark with a chance to catch breath and assess the field.

 

[RobsJourney]

In addition they've caused a lot of negativity by all the rule interpretations. Classic "BALLLLLL!!!!!" >>> "YeaAHAhhahAHHHH!!!!" doesn't happen anymore because no one knows how the rule works. And some stupid ones are paid where player A is clearly the ONLY one who wants the ball and fights for it, gets it, is immediately gang tackled by player B, C and possibly even D, and because of a lack of "genuine attempt" he is pinged. What a load of shit. In the old days that would be "no chance to dispose, give it here i'll ball it up." They may be trying to stop more stoppages and get the game moving again by paying frees like that but it's instead causing a MASSIVE issue imho- discouraging BALL play.

Not only has the umpiring caused negativity and discouraged ball play, they've massively discouraged one on one contests. So many one on one contests result in free kicks one way or another due to something little, and often both players were wrestling each other. Case in point was the free kick to Pavlich against Rance which resulted in a goal on the weekend. They wrestled each other and it was a fair contest, yet Pav got a free. How could you say Rance would not be discouraged by that? Defenders don't know what to do. On the flipside forwards get monstered at times by more than one defender and get given nothing. It happens to Jack an insane amount and they finally pay one in a game where he is clearly saying "about f uc king time!", so why don't more get paid?! Pay more of THOSE frees, and I say scrap hands in the back altogether and other niggly frees in one on one contests. If there's a push then yes, pay it, but if a player has managed to work his opponent under the ball and is holding him there, reward that.

Negativity, that's what it's all about I think and they need to start encouraging contests and ball play rather than discouraging.

 

[Livonski]

Get on FoxFooty now. They're all over it.

 

[partycorolla]

I have been thinking about these issues a lot over the past few years. What really bought it on though was watching the homecoming hero clip on the rfc website for Matty Knights and the Essendon Semi Final game. The time and space, the one on one contests and you look at the players they are not nearly as big. Sure there was not the levels of money and professionalism in the game as there is now but it was more enjoyable. Maybe I am just showing my age but I think Vlad did enormous damage to the game.

He was the CEO from 2004....It is far too simplistic and naive to try and lay blame on any one person. He made mistakes, as did all of his predecessors as will everyone who comes after him. However we have a football commission in place charged with ensuring the game thrives. They have the ultimate responsibility for the game. The CEO needs to make sure the game makes money. Vlad was unparalleled in that regard for sport in Australian history....

 

[partycorolla]

In addition they've caused a lot of negativity by all the rule interpretations. Classic "BALLLLLL!!!!!" >>> "YeaAHAhhahAHHHH!!!!" doesn't happen anymore because no one knows how the rule works. And some stupid ones are paid where player A is clearly the ONLY one who wants the ball and fights for it, gets it, is immediately gang tackled by player B, C and possibly even D, and because of a lack of "genuine attempt" he is pinged. What a load of shit. In the old days that would be "no chance to dispose, give it here i'll ball it up." They may be trying to stop more stoppages and get the game moving again by paying frees like that but it's instead causing a MASSIVE issue imho- discouraging BALL play.

Not only has the umpiring caused negativity and discouraged ball play, they've massively discouraged one on one contests. So many one on one contests result in free kicks one way or another due to something little, and often both players were wrestling each other. Case in point was the free kick to Pavlich against Rance which resulted in a goal on the weekend. They wrestled each other and it was a fair contest, yet Pav got a free. How could you say Rance would not be discouraged by that? Defenders don't know what to do. On the flipside forwards get monstered at times by more than one defender and get given nothing. It happens to Jack an insane amount and they finally pay one in a game where he is clearly saying "about f uc king time!", so why don't more get paid?! Pay more of THOSE frees, and I say scrap hands in the back altogether and other niggly frees in one on one contests. If there's a push then yes, pay it, but if a player has managed to work his opponent under the ball and is holding him there, reward that.

Negativity, that's what it's all about I think and they need to start encouraging contests and ball play rather than discouraging.

Literally happens a crap load at every game, every week.... I'm there and I spend time doing it and commenting on other fans doing it. Fans will forever not know how the rules work, the same is true of the players! This has not changed and will not change!

 

[fumbler]

Get on FoxFooty now. They're all over it.

What have those wanks got to say?

 

[RobsJourney]

Get on FoxFooty now. They're all over it.

what were they talking about?

 

[Livonski]

Malthouse dickhead being chopped up by D King with facts.

Sounds like the answer is the nuclear option of zones. Only way to limit stoppage which is the curse of the game.

I'm with Healy, King.

Healy is with me totally. Even quoted my post #67 almost word for word.