Age Groupings- What does it mean?

[santa claws]

just did a break down of players in our 18-22 age bracket 22yo means turns 22 this yr. also looked at the gaping hole in the list 23 - 28 bracket that is players who turn 23 thru to players who turn 28 this yr. and while i was at it looked at the 29yo plus group. then thought bugger it and did the other teams.i have included rookies in the figures. dunno what it means but here are the results if anyone is interested.

18yo - 22yo. 23yo - 28yo. 29yo+
adelaide 15 20 9
brisbane 24 17 6
carlton 22 18 2
collingwood 23 14 7
essendon 21 15 8
fremantle 15 22 6
geelong 16 25 2
hawthorn 24 15 4
kangaroos 19 19 6
melbourne 19 14 10
port ad 27 10 7
richmond 24 13 7
stkilda 16 20 7
sydney 21 18 7
wce 19 21 4
w/bulldogs 21 15 8

if senior and 23 to 28 yo is an indicator of where a club should be the ladder should read.

top 8. - fremantle. geelong. stkilda. adelaide.syd. wce. kangaroos. melb. bottom 8. - wb. brisbane. ess.coll. ca. rich. haw. pa.
i suppose it suggests collingwood hawthorn and port are way in front of where they should be. it would also explain why stkilda can win so many games with so many injuries. it also suggests fremantle and geelongs window is now and fremantle are under achieving big time. anyway just a bit of fun any thoughts on what it all means.
just changed adelaides mid tier from 17 to 20 apologises

 

[polakthetiger]

Thanks Santa! Excellent post...Port is the surprising one there on those numbers, had no idea they had cleaned house so much.

 

[PLSC]

melbourne are suprisingly old, i like geelong's mix atm and also port is doing the mini-rebuild thing pretty well

the whole "richmond have no middle tier" excuse is rubbish, we have but they just arent any good!

we need to strip back our 29+ though, 7 is too many for where we are at

gaspar/kingsley/tivendale pissing off will hopefully rectify that leaving us with a solid 4-5 of quality which should just be richo, joel, simmo, browny and thats it

 

[lids2004roar]

We have 5 players who are 29 and 1 player who is 30 or over (Richo) because Gaspar retired.

So our senior group is young compared to other clubs (such as the Dogs).

 

[jezza]

You are correct, our group of 23-27 is not good enough. The numbers alone don't tell the story, you have to look at the quality of players in that group, and also the injuries as that's where we've been hit hardest (Brown, Coughlan, Simmonds, Hall, Knobel, P. Bowden). It shows that we've had to make up our side for most of the year with too many from the young age group.

Although, looking at player ages as of today, I make the breakdown to be 24-16-4

Looking ahead, that middle group should reduce dramatically in size, giving a more accurate view of where the list is lacking. Only 2 players during next season will move in to that group, Hartigan and Schulz. Bowden and Simmonds will be definites to move out of it and up into the next bracket. Out of the rest we can expect at least a few to be cut (out of Kingsley, Tivendale, Knoble, Hall, Bowden, Krakouer, Moore).

I think our breakdown next season will look something like 27-12-5 which shows how inexperienced the list is.

 

[jezza]

We have 5 players who are 29 and 1 player who is 30 or over (Richo) because Gaspar retired.

So our senior group is young compared to other clubs (such as the Dogs).

As of today, Richo 32, Gaspar 31, Brown 29 and Johnson 29. Although Joel turns 29 in a few days and Troy within a month.

 

[santa claws]

for what its worth heres the tigers breakdown.
18 - 22.
t casserly 20. a pattison 21.
a collins 19. c peterson 20.
d connors 19. d polo 21.
b deledio 20. a raines 21.
s edwards 19. j riewoldt 19.
n foley 22. j schulz 22.
b hartigan 22. r tambling 21.
c hughes 20. w thursfield21.
d jackson 21. m white 20.
l mcguane 20. t clingan 19 r
d meyer 21. a graham20 r.
j o-nichols 19. c howat 22 r.

23 to 28
p bowden26. c newman 25.
m coughlan 25. k pettifer 25.
r hall 27. g polak 23.
c hyde 25. g tivendale 28.
t knobel 27. s tuck 26.
a krakouer 24. j king 23.
k moore 23.

seniors 29+

j bowden 29.
n brown 29.
d gaspar 31.
k johnson 29.
k kingsley 29.
m richardson 32.
t simmonds 29.

 

[Ah Cheung]

melbourne are suprisingly old, i like geelong's mix atm and also port is doing the mini-rebuild thing pretty well

the whole "richmond have no middle tier" excuse is rubbish, we have but they just arent any good!

we need to strip back our 29+ though, 7 is too many for where we are at

gaspar/kingsley/tivendale pissing off will hopefully rectify that leaving us with a solid 4-5 of quality which should just be richo, joel, simmo, browny and thats it

I never realised we had that many middle tier players....I agree, our middle tier are no good...So much for that excuse...

 

[FSUB10Y]

I never realised we had that many middle tier players....I agree, our middle tier are no good...So much for that excuse...

OMG....Wallet will now have to spend the next few weeks looking for another excuse.....

Maybe he can somehow blame Frawley for recruiting Kingsley!!!!!

The fraud is slowly being found out....good post!

 

[jezza]

OMG....Wallet will now have to spend the next few weeks looking for another excuse.....

Maybe he can somehow blame Frawley for recruiting Kingsley!!!!!

The fraud is slowly being found out....good post!

Why? Have a look at the other teams. Every side except Port has more players in that middle tier. It may look like we have a lot of players there, but you can't judge correctly until you compare it to the other teams.

 

[Ah Cheung]

OMG....Wallet will now have to spend the next few weeks looking for another excuse.....

Maybe he can somehow blame Frawley for recruiting Kingsley!!!!!

The fraud is slowly being found out....good post!

Didn't you know that its Frawleys fault that the date he was born on was a bad date coz of bad feng shui and therefore did not allow the 9 planets to align in a straight line, therefore not allowing us to win a match this year!

Middle tier my ass, port have less than us and are lookin to be doing ok

 

[santa claws]

I never realised we had that many middle tier players....I agree, our middle tier are no good...So much for that excuse...

we have the second least amount of mid tier players in the comp when combined with seniors we are third last. sheesh we dont even have a full team of what you could call reasonably experienced players.i understand where wallace is coming from in this regard. by the time his 5yrs are up he will have turned over nearly the entire list. to make matters worse the quality of the middle tier isnt that great so in effect we lack quality and numbers when it comes to experienced players.

one saving grace is we will have 11 development players move into this mid tier over the next 2 yrs, weather the 11 are all good enough is another question.
we will probably offset any gain here with the retirement delisting of 7 to 9 mid tier and senior players in this time.throw in the fact we have a ways to go to get the list structure right i think we are going to tread water for awhile yet.

 

[jackson_rules]

Why? Have a look at the other teams. Every side except Port has more players in that middle tier. It may look like we have a lot of players there, but you can't judge correctly until you compare it to the other teams.

and not to mention wallace doesnt say we dont have middle tier players, he says we dont have any good middle tier players

 

[Wally Matera]

for what its worth heres the tigers breakdown.
18 - 22.
t casserly 20. a pattison 21.
a collins 19. c peterson 20.
d connors 19. d polo 21.
b deledio 20. a raines 21.
s edwards 19. j riewoldt 19.
r tambling 21. c hughes 20.
d jackson 21. m white 20.
l mcguane 20. t clingan 19 r
d meyer 21. a graham20 r.
j o-nichols 19. w thursfield21.
+ 8 more juniors (7 draftee's and 1 rookie)

23 to 28
c newman 25.
m coughlan 25.
g polak 23.
c hyde 25.
j king 23.
s tuck 26.
k pettifer 25.
n foley 22.
PSD player
j schulz 22.

seniors 29+

g tivendale 28.
j bowden 29.
n brown 29.
k johnson 29.
m richardson 32.
t simmonds 29.

Thanks Santa...

But looking at the list, we're going to get worse before we get better. Making assumptions, after we do the following:

Gasper and Kingsley going from the top tier
Hall, P. Bowden, Krakeour, Moore and maybe Knobel all going + Tivendale (28yo) is borderline.
Our 22 yo's are Haritgan (doubtful), Howat (doubtful), Schulz (doubtful) and Foley

If we were to replace these with all draftees and maybe one experienced (PSD) player, our list could look like:

6 --> 29+'s (Tivvo stays and goes up a level)
10 --> 23 - 28 (Moore, Bowden, Hall, Knobel, Krakeour, Hartigan all go and Howat loses rookie spot, but we gain a player through PSD at this level - Foley and Schulz go up a grade)
28 --> 22 and below when we draft and introduce other rookies.

 

[Crumden]

Good analysis santa claws.

I think the figures back up Wallace's theory, especially when you consider that 4 of the mid-tier (P Bowden, Knobel, Polak and King) have been added since Wallace took over the train wreck.

The other thing is that I suspect if you went through the better performing teams (including Hawthorn, Collingwood and Port who are punching above their weight according to this analysis), I suspect you would find a high proportion of their most important players in this bracket. We have Coughlan, then a number of good serviceable players, and a few real strugglers. On top of that, 4 of the 13 (including Coughlan) have been injured for all or most of the season.

 

[jezza]

Thanks Santa...

But looking at the list, we're going to get worse before we get better. Making assumptions, after we do the following:

Gasper and Kingsley going from the top tier
Hall, P. Bowden, Krakeour, Moore and maybe Knobel all going + Tivendale (28yo) is borderline.
Our 22 yo's are Haritgan (doubtful), Howat (doubtful), Schulz (doubtful) and Foley

If we were to replace these with all draftees and maybe one experienced (PSD) player, our list could look like:

6 --> 29+'s (Tivvo stays and goes up a level)
10 --> 23 - 28 (Moore, Bowden, Hall, Knobel, Krakeour, Hartigan all go and Howat loses rookie spot, but we gain a player through PSD at this level - Foley and Schulz go up a grade)
28 --> 22 and below when we draft and introduce other rookies.

The only positive to take is that a lot of our kids are now getting plenty of games into them which will have them being better sooner (ie Deledio and others will have 100+ games to their names by the time they're 23).