All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[manicpie]

Israel has already broken the Camp David peace treaty by taking control of the Rafa crossing and as a result Egypt has joined the SA,s in attempting to stop the Israeli Genocide in Gaza.
What the Israeli,s are hoping to do is banish the Palestinians to the Sinai where they become Egypt,s problem with partners like Israel who needs enemies.

So Israel has 2 choices either slaughter everybody in Rafa or force them into Egypt the Israeli,s of course have already tried to drag Iran in and now setting their sights on Egypt but they are such a peace loving country.

I know all this. I only have one I issue and that is, Hamas's mantra is to wipe out Israel and turn it into an Islamic state. What would you do if NZ was an Islamic state and it's only reason for existence is to take over Australia and kill anyone who doesn't convert to Islam. Israel has a right to defend itself and gave plenty of warning to Hamas that if they ever attack them, they will retaliate until Hamas is destroyed . Now, don't give all the historical propaganda because Judea was there long before Palestine . This thread is nothing but a jewish hatred thread and it's so obvious that it's almost laughable. I have and will continue to screen shot everything that stinks of jewish hatred and report it to the Anti-semitic Society of Victoria. You can do and believe whatever you like but this thread is toxic and so are the people moderating it. A moderator should be neutral in all things. It's so blatantly obvious and I won't stop until it's removed. As I have continually said, Hamas is the biggest problem in Palestine

 

[sr36]

Israel has already broken the Camp David peace treaty by taking control of the Rafa crossing and as a result Egypt has joined the SA,s in attempting to stop the Israeli Genocide in Gaza.

Israel hasn't taken control of the Rafah crossing.

At a land border crossing, each country has an exit and entry point with a strip of no man's land in between.

Egypt still controls entry and exit of Egypt. Israel has taken control of the Gazan entry and exit points - so exit and entry from Gaza.

They're not going to take control of Egypt's side. No idea how big no man's land is at that crossing but if they are trying to push Palestinians out and Egypt isn't compliant, they might try to push people there to force Egypt's hand. Egypt has supposedly prepared an area on the border for such an eventuality that will probably be treated as no man's land. A different open air prison, but with less food restrictions. I think that's where this is heading - heaps pushed into a refugee camp in no man's land between Gaza and Egypt.

 

[petrie pie]

I know all this. I only have one I issue and that is, Hamas's mantra is to wipe out Israel and turn it into an Islamic state. What would you do if NZ was an Islamic state and it's only reason for existence is to take over Australia and kill anyone who doesn't convert to Islam. Israel has a right to defend itself and gave plenty of warning to Hamas that if they ever attack them, they will retaliate until Hamas is destroyed . Now, don't give all the historical propaganda because Judea was there long before Palestine . This thread is nothing but a jewish hatred thread and it's so obvious that it's almost laughable. I have and will continue to screen shot everything that stinks of jewish hatred and report it to the Anti-semitic Society of Victoria. You can do and believe whatever you like but this thread is toxic and so are the people moderating it. A moderator should be neutral in all things. It's so blatantly obvious and I won't stop until it's removed. As I have continually said, Hamas is the biggest problem in Palestine

You should listen to some of the Zionist rhetoric from the Israeli war cabinet members and then maybe you will see that it is not only Hamas in favour of killing people and they are certainly not as good as the Israeli,s are.

As for for your threat about Anti semetic Society of Victoria well every one who disagrees with Israel,s action,s is anti semetic even their fellow Jews.

 

[manicpie]

You should listen to some of the Zionist rhetoric from the Israeli war cabinet members and then maybe you will see that it is not only Hamas in favour of killing people and they are certainly not as good as the Israeli,s are.

As for for your threat about Anti semetic Society of Victoria well every one who disagrees with Israel,s action,s is anti semetic even their fellow Jews.

As I said, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. As for the Zionist rhetoric, didn't I say that Hamas has been warned for years about what would happen if they attacked israel. you obviously didn't see that or should I say refused to see it. Israel could have wiped out Palestine anytime it wanted and it wasn't Israel who decided to send missiles to israel, it was hamas. There is no anti-semetic shit going on here, it's pure hatred for a race of people, racism is a much better word. The fact that the hatred is allowed to continue on here is shameful. i've never heard of a suicide bomber going into Palestine and killing women and children but I sure as hell have heard a shit load of muslims doing it all over the world. should we talk about 9/11. iraq, iran, yeman, lebanon and that's just to name a few. keep hating anyway, because it's your choice and you are entitled to that as i am

 

[sr36]

As I said, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. As for the Zionist rhetoric, didn't I say that Hamas has been warned for years about what would happen if they attacked israel. you obviously didn't see that or should I say refused to see it. Israel could have wiped out Palestine anytime it wanted and it wasn't Israel who decided to send missiles to israel, it was hamas. There is no anti-semetic s**t going on here, it's pure hatred for a race of people, racism is a much better word. The fact that the hatred is allowed to continue on here is shameful. i've never heard of a suicide bomber going into Palestine and killing women and children but I sure as hell have heard a s**t load of muslims doing it all over the world. should we talk about 9/11. iraq, iran, yeman, lebanon and that's just to name a few. keep hating anyway, because it's your choice and you are entitled to that as i am

If you think this thread is anti-semetic, don't go on to the main board, manic. This thread is singing kumbuya whilst flirting at a kibbutz in comparison.

In terms of the bolded - why be a suicide bomber, when you can just be a bomber. Maybe Essendon are pro-Israel?

 

[Markfs]

The UN came out with a revised figures on the deaths in gaza....well, redefined figures. Instead of using body count, the UN has relied on the actual bodies that have been identified. It has reduced the 35,000 by half. It seems that there are a lot of bodies with missing heads or with heads that have been adjusted so much by the israeli shrapnel that no family member can recognise them. Other bodies, of course, have been buried by the Israelis and left to rot - making them difficult to identify. THe UN is still saying that 35,000 have been murdered, only that they cant name every one of them.

 

[manicpie]

If you think this thread is anti-semetic, don't go on to the main board, manic. This thread is singing kumbuya whilst flirting at a kibbutz in comparison.

In terms of the bolded - why be a suicide bomber, when you can just be a bomber. Maybe Essendon are pro-Israel?

Unfortunately, this whole mess is the result of one psychotic dictator in Netanyahu and one psychotic organisation in Hamas. I wish I was better at putting my point across. I do actually see both sides and what Netanyahu tried to do with the west bank and Gaza. A way to stop Palestine spreading further into Israel. With so much history between these two, I am just seeing jewish hatred, when both sides deserve to be held to account.

 

[manicpie]

The UN came out with a revised figures on the deaths in gaza....well, redefined figures. Instead of using body count, the UN has relied on the actual bodies that have been identified. It has reduced the 35,000 by half. It seems that there are a lot of bodies with missing heads or with heads that have been adjusted so much by the israeli shrapnel that no family member can recognise them. Other bodies, of course, have been buried by the Israelis and left to rot - making them difficult to identify. THe UN is still saying that 35,000 have been murdered, only that they cant name every one of them.

Why the need to glorify the brutality of the carnage. We aren't stupid. Unless of course you have a severe hatred for only one side. Pity any palestinian who might read some of your posts. You have no regard for anything except fuelling your obvious hatred for Jewish people. Disrespectful zealot.

 

[JB1975]

As I said, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. As for the Zionist rhetoric, didn't I say that Hamas has been warned for years about what would happen if they attacked israel. you obviously didn't see that or should I say refused to see it. Israel could have wiped out Palestine anytime it wanted and it wasn't Israel who decided to send missiles to israel, it was hamas. There is no anti-semetic s**t going on here, it's pure hatred for a race of people, racism is a much better word. The fact that the hatred is allowed to continue on here is shameful. i've never heard of a suicide bomber going into Palestine and killing women and children but I sure as hell have heard a s**t load of muslims doing it all over the world. should we talk about 9/11. iraq, iran, yeman, lebanon and that's just to name a few. keep hating anyway, because it's your choice and you are entitled to that as i am

The thread isn't racist. Pointing out a genocide isn't racist.

There's a hint of hatefulness in what you post. Islamophobia.

A Jewish extremist walked into a Hebron mosque in 1994 and killed 30 people praying, wounded another 100 or so. Settlers in the West Bank kill Palestinians on a regular basis.

Terrorism is a form of asymmetrical warfare, a weapon of the weak. In other words, Israel generally doesn't roll that way because it is the strong, and has a modern military supported by the very latest in US capabilities.

 

[leon123]

Unfortunately, this whole mess is the result of one psychotic dictator in Netanyahu and one psychotic organisation in Hamas. I wish I was better at putting my point across. I do actually see both sides and what Netanyahu tried to do with the west bank and Gaza. A way to stop Palestine spreading further into Israel. With so much history between these two, I am just seeing jewish hatred, when both sides deserve to be held to account.

Do you really believe that (the bolded)? you do know what Israel are doing in West Bank yeah.

Im not convinced with this Jewish hatred thing, I think there is a response that people dont accept the slaughter of 10,000's of people (not including Hamas here), the industrial scale destruction of civil and private infrastructure - accompanied with deliberate inhumane strategies i.e restricting aid.

People can, and rightfully so jump up and down about Hamas - but what we are witnessing here at the minimum, is collective barbaric punishment on a mass scale of largely innocent people.

You would agree?

 

[sr36]

Unfortunately, this whole mess is the result of one psychotic dictator in Netanyahu and one psychotic organisation in Hamas. I wish I was better at putting my point across. I do actually see both sides and what Netanyahu tried to do with the west bank and Gaza. A way to stop Palestine spreading further into Israel. With so much history between these two, I am just seeing jewish hatred, when both sides deserve to be held to account.

Yeah it's a mess.

Israel needs security and Palestinians need a state and autonomy. Those in power with the guns on both sides have made it impossible to occur.

Israel won't get security whilst they occupy and lay siege to an area for decades or whilst they continue to settle more land.

And Palestinians won't get a state and autonomy whilst their leaders make them such a threat to Israeli security.

But Israel have the power. They're the ones currently committing atrocity and the ones who have the capability of breaking the cycle.

 

[JB1975]

As I said, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. As for the Zionist rhetoric, didn't I say that Hamas has been warned for years about what would happen if they attacked israel. you obviously didn't see that or should I say refused to see it. Israel could have wiped out Palestine anytime it wanted and it wasn't Israel who decided to send missiles to israel, it was hamas. There is no anti-semetic s**t going on here, it's pure hatred for a race of people, racism is a much better word. The fact that the hatred is allowed to continue on here is shameful. i've never heard of a suicide bomber going into Palestine and killing women and children but I sure as hell have heard a s**t load of muslims doing it all over the world. should we talk about 9/11. iraq, iran, yeman, lebanon and that's just to name a few. keep hating anyway, because it's your choice and you are entitled to that as i am

I want you to know that I've edited the part of my last post in which I called you a moron.

It's rude to point out people's deficiencies, no matter how obvious.

 

[manicpie]

Do you really believe that (the bolded)? you do know what Israel are doing in West Bank yeah.

Im not convinced with this Jewish hatred thing, I think there is a response that people dont accept the slaughter of 10,000's of people (not including Hamas here), the industrial scale destruction of civil and private infrastructure - accompanied with deliberate inhumane strategies i.e restricting aid.

People can, and rightfully so jump up and down about Hamas - but what we are witnessing here at the minimum, is collective barbaric punishment on a mass scale of largely innocent people.

You would agree?

On October 7, women and children were beaten and raped, then had they're head removed. Many people suffered the same fate that palestinians are facing. Is it because of numbers or is it because people only want to hear one side. As I said, Hamas were well and truly aware of what would happen if they attacked Israel, yet they chose to go ahead anyway. When all I read is about one side only and then read jokes that are only directed at Israel, then even a dumbass like me can put 2 and 2 together. This atrocity has been boiling back and forth since Mr. Arafatcampaigner stuck his head in and decided his PLO would destroy Israel. That's just recent history.

 

[manicpie]

I want you to know that I've edited the part of my last post in which I called you a moron.

It's rude to point out people's deficiencies, no matter how obvious.

You should have stuck with moron.

 

[JB1975]

You should have stuck with moron.

You make me want to be a better man.

 

[manicpie]

You make me want to be a better man.

You are a better man than me. I don't remember calling you a moron but I probably thought about it. That makes you a better man than me and it means I still have a lot of work to do

 

[leon123]

On October 7, women and children were beaten and raped, then had they're head removed. Many people suffered the same fate that palestinians are facing. Is it because of numbers or is it because people only want to hear one side. As I said, Hamas were well and truly aware of what would happen if they attacked Israel, yet they chose to go ahead anyway. When all I read is about one side only and then read jokes that are only directed at Israel, then even a dumbass like me can put 2 and 2 together. This atrocity has been boiling back and forth since Mr. Arafatcampaigner stuck his head in and decided his PLO would destroy Israel. That's just recent history.

Well, you just ignored everything I said.

On October 8, there was outrage what Hamas did, nobody is denying this. This has now evolved into outrage in what Israel (govt) are doing.

I dont see how people can skirt around this, it is largely innocent Palestinian people who are the victims and personally, I can not see how anyone can support or justify the outcomes in Gaza. Israel (govt) does have a choice - their current choice is mass murder - there is no sugar coating that

 

[JB1975]

On October 7, women and children were beaten and raped, then had they're head removed. Many people suffered the same fate that palestinians are facing. Is it because of numbers or is it because people only want to hear one side. As I said, Hamas were well and truly aware of what would happen if they attacked Israel, yet they chose to go ahead anyway. When all I read is about one side only and then read jokes that are only directed at Israel, then even a dumbass like me can put 2 and 2 together. This atrocity has been boiling back and forth since Mr. Arafatcampaigner stuck his head in and decided his PLO would destroy Israel. That's just recent history.

Palestine doesn't have a state, just a couple of territories.

The West Bank is subject to illegal Israeli settlements, and it seems that Israel intends to remove all Palestinians.

Gaza is an occupied territory, despite the fact that Israel withdrew two decades ago.

I want to ask you: how do you propose they resist their dispossession and occupation? What form/s of resistance would be acceptable to you?

 

[manicpie]

Palestine doesn't have a state, just a couple of territories.

The West Bank is subject to illegal Israeli settlements, and it seems that Israel intends to remove all Palestinians.

Gaza is an occupied territory, despite the fact that Israel withdrew two decades ago.

I want to ask you: how do you propose they resist their dispossession and occupation? What form/s of resistance would be acceptable to you?

Any form that doesn't cause complete hatred of jews, which you obviously have. That's why you are a better person than me, you have the ability to hate beyond hatred. I have to work up to that level. Maybe ask Hamas or Netanyahu because not even a great man like you knows the whole truth, as much as you think you do.

 

[JB1975]

Any form that doesn't cause complete hatred of jews, which you obviously have. That's why you are a better person than me, you have the ability to hate beyond hatred. I have to work up to that level. Maybe ask Hamas or Netanyahu because not even a great man like you knows the whole truth, as much as you think you do.

I don't hate Jews. I think you know that. I think you also know that many Jewish people share my opinion on Israel's barbarism in Gaza.

I thought I'd ask a serious question in goodwill, but it's clear that this sort of thing antagonises you.

 

[gouki88]

Any form that doesn't cause complete hatred of jews, which you obviously have. That's why you are a better person than me, you have the ability to hate beyond hatred. I have to work up to that level. Maybe ask Hamas or Netanyahu because not even a great man like you knows the whole truth, as much as you think you do.

What are you on about?

 

[manicpie]

I don't hate Jews. I think you know that. I think you also know that many Jewish people share my opinion on Israel's barbarism in Gaza.

I thought I'd ask a serious question in goodwill, but it's clear that this sort of thing antagonises you.

Everything you say says that you hate Jews and no, I don't know that. Why haven't you highlighted the events and atrocities of October 7. Why is it OK for a country to want to obliterate Israel for no other reason than it is ingrained in their being. Why doesn't Israel have the right to exist and follow their own religion. Judea was around just as long if not longer than Palestine. Why all the anti Christian sentiment. You don't even know the difference between Catholics and protestants. You lump them all in the same boat. Protestants believe that the jews are gods chosen people but the Catholics don't. You can pat yourself on the back and make out you're an all round good guy but at the end of the day, you are what you write. Not once have you tried to understand why this whole debacle is taking place. If you really are a good guy, you wouldn't be so one sided.

 

[manicpie]

What are you on about.

I'm just stating that jb is the better man. I don't claim to be much and am happy to keep learning

 

[JB1975]

Everything you say says that you hate Jews and no, I don't know that. Why haven't you highlighted the events and atrocities of October 7. Why is it OK for a country to want to obliterate Israel for no other reason than it is ingrained in their being. Why doesn't Israel have the right to exist and follow their own religion. Judea was around just as long if not longer than Palestine. Why all the anti Christian sentiment. You don't even know the difference between Catholics and protestants. You lump them all in the same boat. Protestants believe that the jews are gods chosen people but the Catholics don't. You can pat yourself on the back and make out you're an all round good guy but at the end of the day, you are what you write. Not once have you tried to understand why this whole debacle is taking place. If you really are a good guy, you wouldn't be so one sided.

Again, my views are the same as many Jewish people.

It'd be quite a challenge for you to find any suggestion from me that Israel has no right to exist or to follow Judaism.

Who knows what anti-Christian sentiment you're referring to. That particular voice in your head might be the most deluded of all.

I'm not sure why I should be expected to keep talking about October 7. I've written of my horror at what happened, but my concerns about Israel's barbarity are many and varied, not the least of which is that (unlike Oct 7) it is a greater horror which has been unfolding for over 7 months.

The fact that my own government supports the butchery is another cause for continuous grievance.

 

[manicpie]

Again, my views are the same as many Jewish people.

It'd be quite a challenge for you to find any suggestion from me that Israel has no right to exist or to follow Judaism.

Who knows what anti-Christian sentiment you're referring to. That particular voice in your head might be the most deluded of all.

I'm not sure why I should be expected to keep talking about October 7. I've written of my horror at what happened, but my concerns about Israel's barbarity are many and varied, not the least of which is that (unlike Oct 7) it is a greater horror which has been unfolding for over 7 months.

The fact that my own government supports the butchery is another cause for continuous grievance.

You don't remember the happy clappy people you always go on about. Well, they're protestant. What do you think will happen if Israel stops right now. Do you honestly believe that Hamas will just go away, they will start bombing Israel the next day. Those happy clappy people believe that the jews are gods chosen people. Their faith demands it, as does the bible they believe in. So, you don't want them to have their beliefs in other words. If you were truly a humanitarian, you would respect every belief system, not just those that suit your agenda. As I said, Hamas knew exactly what they were doing, even though they've been warned for years. If Hamas had any spread of decency, they would have taken into consideration what would happen to innocent palestinians. But no, they chose to sacrifice 40,000 palestinians so far just to commit to their cause. I can guarantee you that the true peaceful palestinians don't want Hamas representing them. You are picking and choosing what you want to get across.