All Time Greatest Fast Bowler Ever

[thejockey]

Agreed, and that is why discussion on the greatest bowler ever is entertaining but pointless. We simply cannot compare all the great bowlers from different eras for a number of reasons. All we can say is who we think is the best bowler we've seen.

Spofforth is an interesting one. Obviously a great bowler of his time, but how quick was he really? I've read reports of wicket keepers standing up to the stumps to him. It would be great to watch footage of these guys.

I've read similar , but also have read of batsman 'not being able to see the ball' !
Sounds like he was a very tall guy for the time and bowled with a high over the top action, when most bowled pretty round arm

My guess is he varied his pace from very brisk for that time to mostly seamers and probably even 'spinners'

Again I dont think you get so much positive commentary unless you were exceptional for your time

 

[eth-dog]

Going to vote for the best I've seen: Dale Steyn

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Going to vote for the best I've seen: Dale Steyn

Who would you say is the greatest batsman of all time?

 

[eth-dog]

Who would you say is the greatest batsman of all time?

No batsman has the statistical dominance that Bradman does. Most of these players (I'd take out Johnson, Thompson, Lee, Botham, Willis, Flintoff, Dev, Bond, Akhtar and Vaas personally) have a claim to the best of all time status. How can I comment on players I haven't seen compared to players I have seen when they have similar records?

 

[SouthSwans]

Current standings:
Marshall 18
McGrath 10
Akram 8
Ambrose 7
Steyn 6
Lillee 5
Hadlee 5

 

[KiwiRoo]

My top 5

Marshall
Hadlee
Lillee
Ambrose
Akram

Most of these are from the 70's and 80's as that's when I watched more cricket. Plus it was when Pakistan, West Indies, NZ ,and England had decent sides .
So marked down McGrath and Steyn as they've played at a time when world cricket has been pretty weak. England and West Indies have been pretty awful at times, as has NZ

so IMO opinion any poll that has Lillee and Hadlee as being below McGrath and Steyn doesn't really ring true to me.
Im sure there's no end of stats that could be dragged out, but I've seen them all bowl and Hadlee and Lillee were better bowlers IMO

 

[damochandler]

top 5
marshall
akram
waqar younis
walsh
dev

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

For someone who never saw him play, can someone explain to me what made Kapil Dev a great bowler?

Was he genuinely quick or was he more of a McGrath type? A good swinger or cutter of the ball?

Looking at the numbers his record doesn't stack up to the best bowlers. Playing in India probably hurt him a bit but his record isn't amazing in more pace friendly countries.

 

[Demosthenes]

The cut off is made at 300 wickets to rule out the possibility of statistical anomalies. Can't we all agree that to take 300 test wickets you pretty much have to be a once-in-a-generation kind of fast bowler, despite whatever minor limitations and flaws you might have?

For a large part of the history of cricket, taking 300 Test wickets was essentially physically impossible.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I'd say 150 wickets is a good cut off. Keeps guys like Barnes and Davidson in the conversation.

 

[Boston tiger]

Jeff Thomson in his prime was nothing like before or anything since. Out shone the great DK Lillie. The great West Indians were a bit ho hum after watching Tommo.

 

[KiwiRoo]

For someone who never saw him play, can someone explain to me what made Kapil Dev a great bowler?

Was he genuinely quick or was he more of a McGrath type? A good swinger or cutter of the ball?

Looking at the numbers his record doesn't stack up to the best bowlers. Playing in India probably hurt him a bit but his record isn't amazing in more pace friendly countries.

He probably played 4 years too many as that hurt his figures, but at his peak he was a very fine fast medium swing bowler. Similar to Anderson the pommie bowler ie sharp enough but not express

 

[Andrew Mc]

He probably played 4 years too many as that hurt his figures, but at his peak he was a very fine fast medium swing bowler. Similar to Anderson the pommie bowler ie sharp enough but not express

Not really. At the end of 1990 his average was 29.91, at the end of his career (1994), it was 29.64. At it's best it was 27.70, in 1983. I'll agree he probably went on too long, but it's not something that hurt his figures. He was a better than good bowler, but honestly, not a player I'd have in these discussions.

 

[KiwiRoo]

Kapil wouldn't have been in the top 3 players of his era let alone of all time

 

[philreich]

Let's be honest, you could probably get rid of half those names off the bat. Johnson, Thomson, Lee, Botham, Willis, Flintoff, Dev, Bond, Akhtar, Steyn, Vass - probably the ones I'm referring to.

My vote is for Malcolm Marshall. Hard to separate a lot of those amazing Windies bowlers seeing as how I never saw them live but basing the pick on the limited footage I've seen and the stories you hear about them. Amazing record, too.

I like the story about Marshall against Australia one day. Boon is facing: before he goes back to the top of his mark, Marshall looks at him and says, "David, are you going to get out now, or will I be forced to come around the wicket and kill you?"

 

[Boston tiger]

I like the story about Marshall against Australia one day. Boon is facing: before he goes back to the top of his mark, Marshall looks at him and says, "David, are you going to get out now, or will I be forced to come around the wicket and kill you?"

But there was always 4 of them. The batsmen never got a break.

 

[western royboy]

I like the story about Marshall against Australia one day. Boon is facing: before he goes back to the top of his mark, Marshall looks at him and says, "David, are you going to get out now, or will I be forced to come around the wicket and kill you?"

He wasn't overly talk the ball skidded at you from a very whippy action - tracking his wrist was hard and all of a sudden he was on you. Truly a frightening experience and whilst I was far from a first class player - it was the intimidation factor that stopped you thinking about anything else other than survival

 

[SwampCreature]

Sorry royboy - did you actually face marshal?

 

[philreich]

But there was always 4 of them. The batsmen never got a break.

Which was why Viv Richards got a lot of Test wickets. After being bombarded by the fast bowlers, the batsmen relaxed mentally and played a poor shot.

 

[western royboy]

Sorry royboy - did you actually face marshal?

Yes - one scary afternoon when he was about 38 and well below top pace - thank **** - but still terrifying.

It was only my second game in 1st Grade - I got there by accident but all of a sudden I was playing with and against test and 1st class players. In my first game I was listed to come in at 9 (I was a keeper) as the wicket fell the West Indian off spinner ran out the gate in front of me - so I became 10. Didn't take long for me to get out there in any case. The young UK pro (now CEO of the ECB) didn't think much of my country technique either and glide out straight away (more of him later). We were 9/140 and looking down the barrel, we'd lost more than the allotted time because of rain and were looking at certain defeat next week. No.11 could not bat. So we played a few shots against a pretty good attack. Got to stumps came back the next week and teed off putting on a 100 for the last wicket, me getting a neat little 45. Next week were playing Maco who was guesting for 6 weeks. The West Indian wasn't rushing to get the pads on in front of me this week! We collapsed again - us been elevated to 7 or 8 and when the 3rd or 4th wicket fell I went to pad up. The West Indian and our Test man followed me in as I padded up. Test man says "whatever you do - don't try to hook or pull him" I thanked him immensely but suggested I wouldn't be trying anything other than trying to survive, whilst searching for a mattress for my leg. Test man added "that's good because he's got two bouncers- a sucker one and a quicker one" - West Indian nodded in agreeance. Wicket fell - I'm in with the Pom. He was a good guy was in the county scene and could play - but he didn't lack confidence. Maco smiles at me - all gold chains and teeth. First up a snorting inswinger (I'm a lefty) which snakes away past my groping bat. Second up same again 'cept quicker. Third ball big leg cutter that I manage to bunt an edge on and get one behind square. I sprint up the other end (goal achieved - 1 run) Maco is standing there smiling and winking at me. He's got me. A few overs pass he regularly goes past my groping blade - it's embarrassing.

I'm on strike and hit a curling inswinger straight back past him for 2, he stopped and clapped. Next up bouncer - I was under as it left his hand. He smiled and winked at me - we were "sweet". He gives the
Pom the same nut and he jumps all over it and pulls it forward of square for 4. He struts down the pitch arrogantly and starts tapping the pitch - I wander down and say "get ready" - he assures me he'll be fine. The ball cannoned into his grill like an excocet missile. As I ran to assist my man I ran past Maco who turned on his heel and said "too late!" All ended well but it's one of those things that you never forget, nor the chat after the game.

 

[SwampCreature]

Cool.

 

[KiwiRoo]

I used to play with Ewan Chatfield who only took a bat out to bat as decoration.
Anyway I had a very pleasurable hour or 2 in our club bar as he told me of his experiences facing Marshall inc over in the windies
He said it was just petrifying, which I guess was understandable for him as he'd been hit on the head by Peter Lever in a test , "died" on the pitch and got revived..so brave man to even keep playing cricket !
Said Marshall was the worst of them because he didn't have any major leap in his delivery and had a very quick arm action, so difficult to pick the ball up, plus he was quite a short man so his bouncer skidded at you.
He said the dressing room was very quiet when they batted !

 

[the_interloper]

Cool.

Not really, sounds ****ing scary!

 

[SwampCreature]

Undeniable - but also pretty awesome. I'd be stoked/terrified. Storefied.

 

[western royboy]

Undeniable - but also pretty awesome. I'd be stoked/terrified. Storefied.

I look back on it now and it's probably a career highlight and certainly the chat after play was one of the best (& I've had many) - what he showed me that night was amazing. But at the time it took being frightened to a new level.
He went into coaching the Windies straight after this and was dead three years later. He was a genuinely good bloke who had this strange mix of being a lethal weapon wrapped up in a lithe and not overly masculine body.