Expansion Alternate AFL World 1987

[Carringbush2010]

Thinking about this and the various suggestions and thoughts of people on here, I don’t really think it could of been done much differently to how it has panned out.

Victoria being such a huge market and rusted on supporter bases meant losing any clubs risked losing people to the sport.

People can complain about it being Vic centric but in terms of the people in this country who love Aussie rules Victoria counts for at least 2 thirds of that. It’s basically a population a couple of million greater than NZ obsessed with a sport to the same extent NZ is with rugby union.

Now the OP did have a balance of clubs which reflected this, but I can’t see kicking out Vic clubs or relocating Hawthorn fresh off a premiership and 4 consecutive GFs off to tassie.

Also as others have mentioned the chosen SANFL and WAFL clubs wouldn’t of had instant converts of other clubs supporters or got everyone supporting them like the eagles and crows did when they came in.

I like the idea of promotion and relegation but the idea falls apart when you think you may have years with states not represented at the top level, which would be disastrous for NSW and QLD.

Ideally you wouldn’t stick to a 22 round season though, was brought it for a 12 team comp when it has been 18 rounds from around the late 20s to late 60s (minus some war years).

Also in alternate time line scenario I can’t see the state leagues really thriving that much even with a free day. VFA maybe more of a chance due to Vic being a bigger market but WAFL and SANFL would of struggled a fair bit.

That's a pretty good summation of the drawbacks of this hypothetical. That hypothetical abandons the Hawthorn fan base of the time AND it splits the nations fan bases of the time. In effect it doesn't shift the fan base from the original state leagues as they were before this reality or this hypothetical.

You could boil it down and dissect it as many times as you wish and you'd probably still end up with what we have now, that being the most practical.

Sure it's not ideal from an equity sense but what we have is due to the market saturation in Vic - a blunt reality if you will.

I find it amusing all the whinging of non vic supporters............................ all they had to do - at the time - was turn their back on the nationalised VFL and the state comps WAFL and SANFL would probably be a lot stronger than what they are now.

 

[Shoei]

Exactly why I started to imagine the alternative history if there had been a different approach and clubs like Norwood, East Fremantle, Port Adelaide and West Perth had been allowed in as they were. It would not really take away from what existed to give to new clubs. Would just be existing clubs moving to the one premier league that was happening already.

This thinking is dumb as ****.

You forget (or probably don't care since we are using magic to wish away the parts we don't like) that in the 80's the WAFL was basically heading for bankruptcy and required a State Government bailout to keep the league afloat.

Instead of having one Superclub making bank because it united an entire state you'd have a handful of suburban clubs broke within years.

 

[Shoei]

I find it amusing all the whinging of non vic supporters............................ all they had to do - at the time - was turn their back on the nationalised VFL and the state comps WAFL and SANFL would probably be a lot stronger than what they are now.

Complete bullshit.

All 3 leagues would be ****ed.

 

[footyfan1978]

This thinking is dumb as fu**.

You forget (or probably don't care since we are using magic to wish away the parts we don't like) that in the 80's the WAFL was basically heading for bankruptcy and required a State Government bailout to keep the league afloat.

Instead of having one Superclub making bank because it united an entire state you'd have a handful of suburban clubs broke within years.

Maybe!!! We do not really know Nostra as it was never done.

 

[terrybull]

You could have modeled the AFL like the European Champions League.

all state leagues exist as they did in 1981.

then after the states season is over, the biggest League with most prestige and money takes over - the AFL.

8 teams - Round Robin or home and away plus Final 4 finals.

Teams
Top 3 VFL
Top 2 SANFL
Top 2 WAFL

the last spot taken by a qualification round from Premiers of TAS, NSW, QLD, NT and ACT (if these teams are to weak to be competitive - then the best state side).

probably mean State Leagues need to start earlier and no finals.

 

[footyfan1978]

The reality though is that if any of the 12 VFL clubs from the 1980s were playing in the current VFL (then VFA) they'd be just like the current VFL clubs are now.

Not really. You missed an important part of this alternate path of Sunday football is virtually the day to follow state footy clubs.
Lots of people in Melbourne followed the VFA footy on Sunday previously. But premier league of VFL name changed to AFL and got Sunday football part of their important schedule. VFA footy died off in interest here to become the skeleton it is now because of the Sunday football market changing here.

This alternate thought experiment gives rise to opportunities of footy fans fully into their AFL on Friday night and Saturday and then for Sunday arvo they can embrace the state footy leagues like we used to do here with VFA. Not everyone would do that but like back in early 80's here in Melbourne, plenty might of to make it a really great footy balance on the whole.

Your comments show you cannot imagine how it was, to be embraced.
The start of thread really highlighted was seeing what those from those times could imagine it.
West Australia and South Australia have not experienced those possibilities of having a good state league on Sunday that people embrace that lives next to a bigger league having the first part of weekend all theirs.
Here it worked well before the big league bullied itself to get into Sunday foothall as 1980's went on. It is why VFA footy is now the skeleton league it is.

This alternate path would give some hope for VFA footy to continue to be as important as it was in early 80's here and if SA and WA could replicate it when 2 existing clubs joined the premier league it is not impossible this could work side by side of AFL all the focus early part of weekend and state league warmly embraced for those that love that too.

It was never tried or thought through at all for all league as a whole. VFL just took complete control and all other league had to fit around it and become skeleton leagues that once had good followings. All leagues were going to be changed in some form no matter what but this alternate path attempts to imagine a better possible scenario so the other leagues not completely relegated to near nothingness they are now.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Complete bullshit.

All 3 leagues would be f’ed.

Please explain, the way I see it if the WA public snubbed west coast and stuck phat with their wafl teams and the wafl that would've pretty much ended the 'national' movement. If wc didn't get up I doubt Ade and Freo would've followed - took a big public interest to get these teams off the ground.

There's also the other thing which I presume you're alluding to. The financial difficulties of the leagues at the time.

Yeah there were financial troubles at the time no doubt, so what? The public interest in footy was still uber high at the time, it's not like footy was just going to die off - they would've survived in some way shape or form.

And if the wa and sa public stuck with their clubs in those 1st tier comps you could bet your bottom dollar they'd have high national interest today and would be probably be as strong if not stronger than any time in history.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You could have modeled the AFL like the European Champions League.

all state leagues exist as they did in 1981.

then after the states season is over, the biggest League with most prestige and money takes over - the AFL.

8 teams - Round Robin or home and away plus Final 4 finals.

Teams
Top 3 VFL
Top 2 SANFL
Top 2 WAFL

the last spot taken by a qualification round from Premiers of TAS, NSW, QLD, NT and ACT (if these teams are to weak to be competitive - then the best state side).

probably mean State Leagues need to start earlier and no finals.

And you're certain that the public would interested in this model? If you look at the fan bases at the time they only cared about their club and still only care about their club and winning the flag in their comp.

It's highly unlikely that this round robin format would garner any public support, traditionally footy comps take place over long periods of time and then a finals series to determine the winner.

This champions league theory just wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

HQ: 'righto public, we're doing this and you're gonna like it'
Public: 'Footy seasons over, x team won the flag'

It'd be a 2nd interest at best, and your AFL would be competed in sparsely attended stadiums with sliding tv ratings.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not really. You missed an important part of this alternate path of Sunday football is virtually the day to follow state footy clubs.
Lots of people in Melbourne followed the VFA footy on Sunday previously. But premier league of VFL name changed to AFL and got Sunday football part of their important schedule. VFA footy died off in interest here to become the skeleton it is now because of the Sunday football market changing here.

This alternate thought experiment gives rise to opportunities of footy fans fully into their AFL on Friday night and Saturday and then for Sunday arvo they can embrace the state footy leagues like we used to do here with VFA. Not everyone would do that but like back in early 80's here in Melbourne, plenty might of to make it a really great footy balance on the whole.

Your comments show you cannot imagine how it was, to be embraced.
The start of thread really highlighted was seeing what those from those times could imagine it.
West Australia and South Australia have not experienced those possibilities of having a good state league on Sunday that people embrace that lives next to a bigger league having the first part of weekend all theirs.
Here it worked well before the big league bullied itself to get into Sunday foothall as 1980's went on. It is why VFA footy is now the skeleton league it is.

This alternate path would give some hope for VFA footy to continue to be as important as it was in early 80's here and if SA and WA could replicate it when 2 existing clubs joined the premier league it is not impossible this could work side by side of AFL all the focus early part of weekend and state league warmly embraced for those that love that too.

It was never tried or thought through at all for all league as a whole. VFL just took complete control and all other league had to fit around it and become skeleton leagues that once had good followings. All leagues were going to be changed in some form no matter what but this alternate path attempts to imagine a better possible scenario so the other leagues not completely relegated to near nothingness they are now.

I understand where you're coming from, I remember tuning into the wireless on saturday arvo after playing juniors that morning. Watch the shortened replay at 6 pm on 'the winners' and later years ch7. Then on sunday flick on the cathode ray tube tv to watch the VFA, watching Fred Cook and Phil Cleary get around and occasionally get down to Shepley oval to barrack for the Dandy red legs.

To have that model now would take that model now. What that means is your model splits up the 3 major fan bases and abandons the Hawthorn base at the time.

So in essence in regard to your hypothetical you'd be better off leaving the comps the way they were in order to avoid the VFA, WAFL and SANFL becoming skeletons of themselves.

 

[footyfan1978]

I understand where you're coming from, I remember tuning into the wireless on saturday arvo after playing juniors that morning. Watch the shortened replay at 6 pm on 'the winners' and later years ch7. Then on sunday flick on the cathode ray tube tv to watch the VFA, watching Fred Cook and Phil Cleary get around and occasionally get down to Shepley oval to barrack for the Dandy red legs.

So in essence in regard to your hypothetical you'd be better off leaving the comps the way they were in order to avoid the VFA, WAFL and SANFL becoming skeletons of themselves.

The problem was the bigger league was always going to take much of the elite talent away from WAFL and SANFL that kept happening into 1986 etc so VFL was the de-facto premier league with some good leagues still around but losing a lot in process. I agree with the VFL expansion because it was the premier league and including WA and SA in it made sense seeing as they were losing elite players anyway but I just did not like the way it was done. It has diminished those leagues too much to point of simple skeletons now and a real shame clubs there virtually have no following now. Same with VFA clubs here. Like you said, plenty tuned into to see the Fred Cook's of the VFA world and how Port Melbourne, Sandringham, Preston, Dandenong etc were going each Sunday. That all came to an end once league footy totally go into Sunday football and 1987 with Eagles and Bears around you now had football every Sunday for the premier league and slowly but surely that killed off the VFA crowds and following. If that Sunday invasion had not taken over totally we may have a better balanced way of having football at the state league levels that still held some solid interest each Sunday.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The problem was the bigger league was always going to take much of the elite talent away from WAFL and SANFL that kept happening into 1986 etc so VFL was the de-facto premier league with some good leagues still around but losing a lot in process. I agree with the VFL expansion because it was the premier league and including WA and SA in it made sense seeing as they were losing elite players anyway but I just did not like the way it was done. It has diminished those leagues too much to point of simple skeletons now and a real shame clubs there virtually have no following now. Same with VFA clubs here. Like you said, plenty tuned into to see the Fred Cook's of the VFA world and how Port Melbourne, Sandringham, Preston, Dandenong etc were going each Sunday. That all came to an end once league footy totally go into Sunday football and 1987 with Eagles and Bears around you now had football every Sunday for the premier league and slowly but surely that killed off the VFA crowds and following. If that Sunday invasion had not taken over totally we may have a better balanced way of having football at the state league levels that still held some solid interest each Sunday.

Well it seems you're at odds with yourself, in essence it could only go one of one ways. The Victorian market regardless of how you model the landscape was then and will always be (probably) the highest profile centre for footy and the reason for attracting the non vic talent at the time - blunt reality you can't escape.

For mine you could model it one of four ways with two being the only real rational avenues.

• Your hypothetical, which may have achieved what you theorize but likely abandon the Hawthorn fan base and by extension may have folded that club.
• Do nothing and likely the landscape would look similar to what is was just on a much larger scale in line with population growth, tv and media etc. The VFL would remain the highest profile and attract the best talent from around the country. All the 1st tier leagues have robust public interest, VFA the same. Regardless of the financial troubles of the time, the public interest was never going to fold.
• Have a national comp with brand new clubs to make it truly national. This would garner little if any public support would be a 2nd interest at best - certainly from the vic market perspective, the 1st tier leagues would take all the public attention, the VFL the most.
• What we have now which is most practical, regardless of the bitterness from the non vic fan base. It could have gone the other way and those populations turn their back on the new franchises - that would've spelt the do nothing model.

So yeah the state leagues in wa, sa were always going to diminish once the population jumped on the new club bandwagons, if you want to blame anyone for the demise of those two leagues blame the footy public in those states at the time.

If I recall correctly the vic market at the time didn't want to go national but accepted that the VFL at the time needed a funds injection. I certainly didn't want to go down the national path when wc and bears entered when I was 17 - for me it took away the tradition of the VFL. I now accept that evolution is unavoidable.

 

[footyfan1978]

For mine you could model it one of four ways with two being the only real rational avenues.

• Your hypothetical, which may have achieved what you theorize but likely abandon the Hawthorn fan base and by extension may have folded that club.

Hawthorn was just an example of a club relocating that was not a foundation club but it did not have to be them and simply a personal preference. Maybe it was North re-locating or going to the VFA and Saints staying and re-locating a Southern Saints in Tasmania. My aim was to keep the league not too big to steal more players from other leagues and have a more balanced distribution of 14 clubs around. Half based in Victoria where half the players come from seems right. As someone else said it may have been Melbourne Lions merger too and someone else relocates to Brisbane like South did to Sydney.
Brisbane Kangaroos, Southern Saints in Tassie, Melbourne Lions stay here, Hawks stay here. Geelong stay and the big four of course.

An alternative path would have been interesting to live through in a Parallel footy universe through the late 80's and all of 90's to see how it could work out better for the overall football communities. I still maintain that Sunday period free for other leagues could have really worked wonders for the sport overall in keeping more of what was good then and continue to have more clubs in other states continue to have decent followings each Sunday.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Hawthorn was just an example of a club relocating that was not a foundation club but it did not have to be them and simply a personal preference. Maybe it was North re-locating or going to the VFA and Saints staying and re-locating a Southern Saints in Tasmania. My aim was to keep the league not too big to steal more players from other leagues and have a more balanced distribution of 14 clubs around. Half based in Victoria where half the players come from seems right. As someone else said it may have been Melbourne Lions merger too and someone else relocates to Brisbane like South did to Sydney.
Brisbane Kangaroos, Southern Saints in Tassie, Melbourne Lions stay here, Hawks stay here. Geelong stay and the big four of course.

An alternative path would have been interesting to live through in a Parallel footy universe through the late 80's and all of 90's to see how it could work out better for the overall football communities. I still maintain that Sunday period free for other leagues could have really worked wonders for the sport overall in keeping more of what was good then and continue to have more clubs in other states continue to have decent followings each Sunday.

Relocating or merging clubs loses fan bases and maybe from the game. If you ask Roylion you'll learn that the lions took a big hit fan wise when the bears took over. Some turned their back on the game altogether

It's likely you'd have lost the hawks base if this was the path the landscape went down. I get your wish of keeping the state leagues vibrant alongside a vibrant 'top' comp.

The reality is it is not really possible to keep the fan engagement alongside all those comps without sacrifices - in your case the hawks. Would've have footy been as big as it is in that alternate? Hard to say - minus the couple hundred K + hawks fans certainly.

Right now we have one league with all the public interest minus a lot of Fitzroy and Sth Melbourne fans but we keep the hawks base. What you want is a spread of fans across all the state leagues and VFA as well as this quasi national model.

I'd argue the model we have now is bigger and more professional that your proposed model would've been. Is that a bad thing? Yes for all the 2nd tier comps. No for the professionalism and popularity of the top league (the AFL).

 

[footyfan1978]

Relocating or merging clubs loses fan bases and maybe from the game.

You are forgetting the whole start of thread where clearly said not everyone is going to be happy. That was not possible. The idea for this thought experiment was imagine how it could work better for the good of more clubs and game overall, knowing a few victims were going to happen one way or the other.

This path is the one that intrigues me the most of keeping as much as possible of what was good then and still knowing an expanded league was going to happen but just doing it in a less hurtful way to many more clubs. The gain for me in other states is all those traditional clubs in Perth and Adelaide still keep some relevance every Sunday much like I grew up knowing Port Melbourne in VFA really meant something to lots of people each Sunday.
Now what has Port Melbourne, South Fremantle, Norwood's, Glenelgs's got as club following. Not much at all, Almost off the radar but if state leagues had been given Sunday's to be their own niche market they still could have had something to a decent following that could have flowed on to the present. Now all we got is everyone has an AFL club and everything else is a virtual skeleton of what was before for many clubs.

 

[footyfan1978]

Right now we have one league with all the public interest minus a lot of Fitzroy and Sth Melbourne fans but we keep the hawks base.

Once again you are forgetting everything lost to SANFL clubs, VFA clubs and WAFL clubs. I'm looking further than just our own league with what could have been possible. Way more than just Fitzroy and South lost fans. How many have East Fremanelt Sharks lost ? West Perth Falcons ? Norwood Redlegs, Glenelg, Sturt, Clarement, Swan Distiricts, South Fremantle, Port Melbourne, Sandringham, Coburg, East Perth, Prahran, Preston, Dandenong, Subiaco, North Adelaide etc etc etc.....Imagine if that did not need to happen and an alternative where they kept something to have a niche market each Sunday to have real followings each week than just a couple of hundred fans each that is all that is left. Skeletons of all what they once were that probably did not need to happen if another path was taken for good of the game overall. Hence the origins of this thread. Losing something and not everything would have been more interesting path to explore.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You are forgetting the whole start of thread where clearly said not everyone is going to be happy. That was not possible. The idea for this thought experiment was imagine how it could work better for the good of more clubs and game overall, knowing a few victims were going to happen one way or the other.

This path is the one that intrigues me the most of keeping as much as possible of what was good then and still knowing an expanded league was going to happen but just doing it in a less hurtful way to many more clubs. The gain for me in other states is all those traditional clubs in Perth and Adelaide still keep some relevance every Sunday much like I grew up knowing Port Melbourne in VFA really meant something to lots of people each Sunday.
Now what has Port Melbourne, South Fremantle, Norwood's, Glenelgs's got as club following. Not much at all, Almost off the radar but if state leagues had been given Sunday's to be their own niche market they still could have had something to a decent following that could have flowed on to the present. Now all we got is everyone has an AFL club and everything else is a virtual skeleton of what was before for many clubs.

Oh I don't disagree, in fact I mentioned that the reality is much less profiled state leagues. In part that's the fault of the wa and sa public of the time, like I said IF they turned their back on the new franchise clubs at the time the Wafl and the Sanfl would be much much stronger than what they are now.

Those public markets are just as much responsible for what we have now as the architects of the time.

There's the other carrot of the financial bail out of the VFL from the wa footy commission at the time also. That is a big big factor in the expansion of the VFL, probably could not be avoided.

 

[footyfan1978]

Oh I don't disagree, in fact I mentioned that the reality is much less profiled state leagues. In part that's the fault of the wa and sa public of the time

This thread was not designed to find fault. Was actually to simply explore a different way of football progress happening from 1987. Sunday football for everything not the elite league and everyone could have two clubs to genuinely follow and get the best of footy in the outer and footy at the bigger plastic seat venues too Their AFL club before Sunday and then their VFA, SANFL or WAFL club each Sunday. Imagine every Sunday passionate crowds like VFA on Sunday's still happened around Melbourne and similar in Perth and Adelaide for their traditional clubs. Would love to see that world explored in greater thought experiment. Forgot the blame and fault finding and use the imagination of what could have been explored for the good of the sport overall.

 

[Carringbush2010]

This thread was not designed to find fault. Was actually to simply explore a different way of football progress happening from 1987. Sunday football for everything not the elite league and everyone could have two clubs to genuinely follow and get the best of footy in the outer and footy at the bigger plastic seat venues too Their AFL club before Sunday and then their VFA, SANFL or WAFL club each Sunday. Imagine every Sunday passionate crowds like VFA on Sunday's still happened around Melbourne and similar in Perth and Adelaide for their traditional clubs. Would love to see that world explored in greater thought experiment. Forgot the blame and fault finding and use the imagination of what could have been explored for the good of the sport overall.

Fair enough, I like that idea to be honest. Pies on Fri / Sat, Dandy on Sunday.

Yeah ok I've pointed out the why's it's not just like everybody else, that's the natural reaction you're going to get though as evident in this thread.

 

[footyfan1978]

Fair enough, I like that idea to be honest. Pies on Fri / Sat, Dandy on Sunday.

Yeah ok I've pointed out the why's it's not just like everybody else, that's the natural reaction you're going to get though as evident in this thread.

Carlton on Friday/ Sat. Coburg on Sunday.
I think some of the reactions are from those not seen how Sunday football niche market for other league actually worked well here. It is why I was really more interested in thoughts of those that at least had lived through it and what thoughts generated from it by just imagining if we went down the path instead.

It is also more romantic to me to imagine a real football club like Norwood joined and got bigger than it already was there than unromantic franchises started up instead from scratch. Think it would have added more character to our own league to have more traditional football clubs join and grow fan bases into this century and then also the local clubs that did not get in, still get a Sunday menu for themselves even though it not the elite level. It still a decent level like VFA was to have a genuine decent following.
Imagine if the real Port Adelaide had been admitted in 1987 with Norwood and get out of the fishbowl there for a bigger football ocean. Same with East Fremantle and West Perth from WA. Be more culture added at elite level too. Players spread less thin too with no new clubs, Just players moving a few clubs, rather than new franchise clubs with no culture needing to get list of well over 40 from others overnight.

 

[terrybull]

Carlton on Friday/ Sat. Coburg on Sunday.
I think some of the reactions are from those not seen how Sunday football niche market for other league actually worked well here. It is why I was really more interested in thoughts of those they at least had lived through it and what thoughts generated from it by just imagining if we went down the path instead.

It is also more romantic to me to imagine a real football club like Norwood joined and got bigger than it already was there than unromantic franchises started up instead from scratch. Think it would have added more character to our own league to have more traditional football clubs join and grow fan bases into this century and then also the local clubs that did not get in, still get a Sunday menu for themselves even though it not the elite level. It still a decent level like VFA was to have a genuine decent following.
Imagine if the real Port Adelaide had been admitted in 1987 with Norwood and get out of the fishbowl there for a bigger football ocean. Same with East Fremantle and West Perth from WA. Be more culture added at elite level too. Players spread less thin too with no new clubs, Just players moving a few clubs, rather than new franchise clubs with no culture needing to get list of well over 40 from others overnight.

we probably see Port Adelaide having around the same membership as today, Norwood membership as Adelaide.

West Perth and East Fremantle probably more even between them then West Coast and Fremantle.

But history shows that fans are not so loyal that everyone thinks.
First fans dumped their VFA clubs to VFL clubs.
Then the biggest surprise was the rapid decline of the SANFL and WAFL.

Even not all Fitzroy fans have been lost as many support other clubs now andnot attending their team in the VAFA.

Your proposal may have saved the VFA (their numbers were not that great) but I think the SANFL and WAFL crowd numbers probably reduced to that of the VFA.

 

[Pessimistic]

With hawks around 80k (not sure how many have voting rights) what portion is those who voted No (5421 from 8082) to the merger in 1996 (24 years ago) and are still alive/members?

 

[Bombermania]

In an alternative world.

All clubs in major state leagues - VFL, VFA, SANFL, WAFA, Tassie, ACT, Queensland, NSW & NT come together to form one league with regional divisions with the best sides making the finals or simply have them come together in a divisional structure with promotional / regulation.

 

[footyfan1978]

we probably see Port Adelaide having around the same membership as today, Norwood membership as Adelaide.

West Perth and East Fremantle probably more even between them then West Coast and Fremantle.

But history shows that fans are not so loyal that everyone thinks.
First fans dumped their VFA clubs to VFL clubs.

Really ?
VFA clubs of 1896 did not just drop off the clubs they already followed.
Made up history ?
When I read about those times the VFA admin until well after World War One still considered they could compete or outdo the breakaway league.
It took until 1925 for them to probably realise they were out of their depth but I see no evidence of those times of fans giving up their Port Melbourne, Footscray, Williamstown or North following to jump onto a team in breakaway league in 1897. I think you would find later generations born later when it was clear VFL was the better league took more interest there. But even then VFA still had lots of followers each Sunday for many decades. When I was a little kid a lot of people had a team in VFA they followed each Sunday. It was like our second team in a secondary league but still interesting enough for many of us to take a keen interest each Sunday.

 

[footyfan1978]

Then the biggest surprise was the rapid decline of the SANFL and WAFL.

No real surprise when the alternate idea of not allowing premier league clubs play on same days as WAFL clubs did not happen. Furthermore a franchise new club takes more players than existing clubs simply moving to a bigger league.

 

[Hawkk]

Hawthorn was just an example of a club relocating that was not a foundation club but it did not have to be them and simply a personal preference. Maybe it was North re-locating or going to the VFA and Saints staying and re-locating a Southern Saints in Tasmania. My aim was to keep the league not too big to steal more players from other leagues and have a more balanced distribution of 14 clubs around. Half based in Victoria where half the players come from seems right. As someone else said it may have been Melbourne Lions merger too and someone else relocates to Brisbane like South did to Sydney.
Brisbane Kangaroos, Southern Saints in Tassie, Melbourne Lions stay here, Hawks stay here. Geelong stay and the big four of course.

An alternative path would have been interesting to live through in a Parallel footy universe through the late 80's and all of 90's to see how it could work out better for the overall football communities. I still maintain that Sunday period free for other leagues could have really worked wonders for the sport overall in keeping more of what was good then and continue to have more clubs in other states continue to have decent followings each Sunday.

It’s odd that you relocated the 1986 premier (who had made the last 4 GF’s and was in the midst of 8 flags and 12 GFs in 20 seasons) and was one of the only VFL clubs which was debt free in the mid 1980s in 1987