Amateur Footballer/Records - waste of money??

[Bingle_21]

that's fine if the Records are free, when your incurring a cost on this decision then do you go : excessive - just right - or conservative?.

3 cost scenarios x numerous clubs = massive discrepancies

Agreed. That is why I would have thought letting the clubs decide would be more sensible.

Some clubs charge, others give them away, some clubs have a lot larger following then others. Therefore the clubs themselves would have a much better idea then HO the amount that normally get used.

I agree there has been too much wastage in the past, but think that at this stage that letting the clubs decide how many copies they want is the best solution.

 

[Cardio Carl]

Agreed. That is why I would have thought letting the clubs decide would be more sensible.

Some clubs charge, others give them away, some clubs have a lot larger following then others. Therefore the clubs themselves would have a much better idea then HO the amount that normally get used.

I agree there has been too much wastage in the past, but think that at this stage that letting the clubs decide how many copies they want is the best solution.

Bing, whether clubs charge or not has nothing to do with the allocation as that is a clubs decision. It must be based on pure numbers and the only fair and most accurate way is through registered players which the league has.

 

[Bingle_21]

Bing, whether clubs charge or not has nothing to do with the allocation as that is a clubs decision. It must be based on pure numbers and the only fair and most accurate way is through registered players which the league has.

It is based on numbers. Ones nominated by the Clubs.

Working on your player numbers theory...

The Ammo's have total registered player numbers. Some clubs have a large turnover week to week through work, travel, family, schooling, etc etc. Not all registered players are always there, again this would vary club to club. The Ammos using their registered player numbers are not going to have a clue how many non playing supporters clubs have showing up to games, again this would vary club to club. Using a set formula across all clubs to guess this would be rediculous. Within each division there would be clubs with a similar number of registered players but vastly different supporter numbers.

In regards to paying not making a difference to allocation...

If 2 clubs had the same amount of players and supporters attending games, then it would be more likely that a club that doesnt charge for AF would distribute more AF's then a club that did, effecting how many they would want/need from the Ammos.

The club is going to have a much much better idea of the number of players and supporters from their club that are going to show up to their games then what the Ammos are.

 

[Cardio Carl]

It is based on numbers. Ones nominated by the Clubs.

Working on your player numbers theory...

The Ammo's have total registered player numbers. Some clubs have a large turnover week to week through work, travel, family, schooling, etc etc. Not all registered players are always there, again this would vary club to club. The Ammos using their registered player numbers are not going to have a clue how many non playing supporters clubs have showing up to games, again this would vary club to club. Using a set formula across all clubs to guess this would be rediculous. Within each division there would be clubs with a similar number of registered players but vastly different supporter numbers.

In regards to paying not making a difference to allocation...

If 2 clubs had the same amount of players and supporters attending games, then it would be more likely that a club that doesnt charge for AF would distribute more AF's then a club that did, effecting how many they would want/need from the Ammos.

The club is going to have a much much better idea of the number of players and supporters from their club that are going to show up to their games then what the Ammos are.

Working on your player numbers theory...

The Ammo's have total registered player numbers. Some clubs have a large turnover week to week through work, travel, family, schooling, etc etc. Not all registered players are always there, again this would vary club to club. not really, the % of In-Transit players/supporters would be similar to all clubs each week and independant of the size of player numbersThe Ammos using their registered player numbers are not going to have a clue how many non playing supporters clubs have showing up to gamesthat's silly, it will provides a far greater true-potential of playing and non playing i.e. I can assure you that a club with high player numbers would have a significantly larger supporter base than a club with less players, again this would vary club to club. Using a set formula across all clubs to guess this would be rediculous. Within each division there would be clubs with a similar number of registered players but vastly different supporter numbers.disagree, there would be a variance of +/-5% at most

In regards to paying not making a difference to allocation...

If 2 clubs had the same amount of players and supporters attending games, then it would be more likely that a club that doesnt charge for AF would distribute more AF's then a club that did, effecting how many they would want/need from the Ammos.of course, but who decides if a club sells them or not and more importantly to who, everyone or just those that buy from the canteen - again, this is a club decision and has nothing to do with the VAFA in terms of allocation. What happens if ALL clubs charge?

The club is going to have a much much better idea of the number of players and supporters from their club that are going to show up to their games then what the Ammos are.[/QUOTE] I think is where we need to agree to disagree, by using fact-base information with a formula vs your scenario that adds some many (quite relative) variables and makes the whole thing complicated and open for misrepresentation - end of day if a club has 400 registered players vs a club that has 100 registered players I think we can accurately apply a rate of allocation to each club on player and anticipated supporter levels

anyway, I think we can agree to disagree

cheers

CC

 

[vafaeye]

Working on your player numbers theory...

The Ammo's have total registered player numbers. Some clubs have a large turnover week to week through work, travel, family, schooling, etc etc. Not all registered players are always there, again this would vary club to club. not really, the % of In-Transit players/supporters would be similar to all clubs each week and independant of the size of player numbersThe Ammos using their registered player numbers are not going to have a clue how many non playing supporters clubs have showing up to gamesthat's silly, it will provides a far greater true-potential of playing and non playing i.e. I can assure you that a club with high player numbers would have a significantly larger supporter base than a club with less players, again this would vary club to club. Using a set formula across all clubs to guess this would be rediculous. Within each division there would be clubs with a similar number of registered players but vastly different supporter numbers.disagree, there would be a variance of +/-5% at most

In regards to paying not making a difference to allocation...

If 2 clubs had the same amount of players and supporters attending games, then it would be more likely that a club that doesnt charge for AF would distribute more AF's then a club that did, effecting how many they would want/need from the Ammos.of course, but who decides if a club sells them or not and more importantly to who, everyone or just those that buy from the canteen - again, this is a club decision and has nothing to do with the VAFA in terms of allocation. What happens if ALL clubs charge?

The club is going to have a much much better idea of the number of players and supporters from their club that are going to show up to their games then what the Ammos are.

I think is where we need to agree to disagree, by using fact-base information with a formula vs your scenario that adds some many (quite relative) variables and makes the whole thing complicated and open for misrepresentation - end of day if a club has 400 registered players vs a club that has 100 registered players I think we can accurately apply a rate of allocation to each club on player and anticipated supporter levels

anyway, I think we can agree to disagree

cheers

CC[/quote]


CC - Clubs/Treasurers know exactly what is needed & that's why finally HQ had to listen - Clubs should rightly choose what they want because they and only they know the past history of usage v wastage! It is nearly all on the net anyway. Circulation is around 3 to 3.5k a week.

 

[Bingle_21]

Working on your player numbers theory...

The Ammo's have total registered player numbers. Some clubs have a large turnover week to week through work, travel, family, schooling, etc etc. Not all registered players are always there, again this would vary club to club. not really, the % of In-Transit players/supporters would be similar to all clubs each week and independant of the size of player numbersThe Ammos using their registered player numbers are not going to have a clue how many non playing supporters clubs have showing up to gamesthat's silly, it will provides a far greater true-potential of playing and non playing i.e. I can assure you that a club with high player numbers would have a significantly larger supporter base than a club with less players, again this would vary club to club. Using a set formula across all clubs to guess this would be rediculous. Within each division there would be clubs with a similar number of registered players but vastly different supporter numbers.disagree, there would be a variance of +/-5% at most

In regards to paying not making a difference to allocation...

If 2 clubs had the same amount of players and supporters attending games, then it would be more likely that a club that doesnt charge for AF would distribute more AF's then a club that did, effecting how many they would want/need from the Ammos.of course, but who decides if a club sells them or not and more importantly to who, everyone or just those that buy from the canteen - again, this is a club decision and has nothing to do with the VAFA in terms of allocation. What happens if ALL clubs charge?

The club is going to have a much much better idea of the number of players and supporters from their club that are going to show up to their games then what the Ammos are.

I think is where we need to agree to disagree, by using fact-base information with a formula vs your scenario that adds some many (quite relative) variables and makes the whole thing complicated and open for misrepresentation - end of day if a club has 400 registered players vs a club that has 100 registered players I think we can accurately apply a rate of allocation to each club on player and anticipated supporter levels

anyway, I think we can agree to disagree

cheers

CC[/quote]

Think your right we are not gonna agree here. So this is all I will add on the matter.

Your theory may work, but I couldnt see it being much less wasteful then last years process.

Transit of players would absoulutely be different. Players playing for an A grade team are going to be less likely to take a week off to go away for a holiday etc in the middle of the season then say a D4 player. Similarly I would imagine a lot more players in high grades get jobs through football club contacts so the job would be more understanding of not wanting/being able to travel on weekends. Lower grade players have to put work first.

It is not silly at all. Player numbers cant be linked to non player support at games across the board. No way can you standardise this with a formula. Each club is different with different reasons for the large or small numbers of supporters. Just for one you are going to get more supporters to A/B grade games (and I would imagine proportionately more) then you are for D4 or D3 games, (and there are teams in lower grades that have clubbies and underage teams so have a large number of registered players). You asure me this isnt the case, so if you can prove it to me I will be happy to admit I am wrong.

Who decides who sells AF or not? The clubs, as they should. As they should decide who they sell it too. I would have thought this affected the VAFA and allocation as it will effect how many a club needs as previously pointed out, which is the whole point of this discussion.

As I say you could apply a formula but it seems pointless when Clubs are going to have a better idea of what they need and all of the variables that effect how many they will need.

 

[Rooster1979]

2010 circulation was 3-3.5k apparantly
Last year my club got 50 a week and they were given out after training on a Thursday night. A good read, but we'd be lucky to have 50 on the track let alone stay back for drinks. 20 is a much better number for us, maybe we could even sell them if they're in shorter supply.

72 senior clubs x 20 copies each = roughly 1,400 copies

I'll assume A-C clubs can move another 30 each. that's another 900.

So, we're down to about 2,300 circulation. Make it available as a pdf online or in a format viewable on iphones & other smart phones so people have the choice to access the info that way as well.

Also, more section specific information would be great. I'm not really interested in reading about the Premier grades, but would love more info on Divisions 2-4.

 

[majicjman]

from most of the comment about this it seem to be the top tier clubs (A&B )that want this and can sell them and the lower grades don't want them or the expense.
Well I say to the top tier clubs suck it up princess as the lower grade have been paying more than their way have a look you have more umpires each week than the lower grades who have to supply their own goal and boundry umpires you also have rep footy junkets .the lower grades dont even get a look at this
If the lower grade don’t want it then they should not be force to pay for a complete waste of paper and especially money that could be spent on the players or equipment