amazing interview, Jones v gill, afl and asadas dirty laundry queried

[Reality rules]

Not ignoring you reality rules it's just that you sound more like don Quixote than Procrustes and I have nowhere to go

Do you have any other recommendations from your book club?
Or we could do dinner and a show?...........minus the dinner and the show.

 

[gavaniacono]

He said "the simple answer is no"

If he had left it at that without the qualifications, then, yes.

 

[andrewb]

Information which ;

A) Needs to remain confidential (don't want to compromise sources/investigation until the ASADA case is built).
B) We are not sure if we can rely on at this stage (we need more supporting evidence).
C) Would break the law to use this (ACC evidence).
D) Publication could lead to court action for slander (his word vs hers etc see B).
E) Which was gathered incorrectly/inappropriately which will be thrown out anyway by the tribunal.

How about those meanings?

Hahahahahaaaaaaa nice

 

[Percel]

Who the hell is he talking about Perc? I think he me on ignore, which is damn shame because I like a full telsa service plan.

Telsa is a chick, she's talking about an old greek dude, used to inject people with Pythagoras calf blood who were inured in the Ancient Football League of Greek times, off site too.

He was also Son of Poseidon, who won the Socrates medal three years running.

 

[Satan]

jones is worse than darren james

 

[Reality rules]

Telsa is a chick, she's talking about an old greek dude, used to inject people with Pythagoras calf blood who were inured in the Ancient Football League of Greek times, off site too.

He was also Son of Poseidon, who won the Socrates medal three years running.

Those bastards!

 

[Reality rules]

Telsa is a chick, she's talking about an old greek dude, used to inject people with Pythagoras calf blood who were inured in the Ancient Football League of Greek times, off site too.

He was also Son of Poseidon, who won the Socrates medal three years running.

Maybe I shouldn't have so hasty in cancelling that dinner date I offered for dinner and a show!

 

[tesla1962]

Telsa is a chick, she's talking about an old greek dude, used to inject people with Pythagoras calf blood who were inured in the Ancient Football League of Greek times, off site too.

He was also Son of Poseidon, who won the Socrates medal three years running.

Think you should have paid more attention at school perc

 

[Reality rules]

Think you should have paid more attention at school perc

Why cloud a good story with facts?

 

[tesla1962]

Do you have any other recommendations from your book club?
Or we could do dinner and a show?...........minus the dinner and the show.

you want me to recommend a book for you?
I am not familiar with what the kiddies are reading these days so can't help you mate

 

[Reality rules]

you want me to recommend a book for you?
I am not familiar with what the kiddies are reading these days so can't help you mate

I kinda knew what the story was, hence my offer for dinner and a show and book recommendation. Not everyone is too cool for school

 

[Percel]

Think you should have paid more attention at school perc

Defo agree , I did love your use of procrustes though, clever

 

[LVAK]

Jones couldn't find balance on a spirit level. Best ignored.

 

[Gavstar]

Hahahahahaaaaaaa nice

Devils advocate perhaps?

Firstly once you sign an AFL contract you are its bitch even the court agrees here.

1) ASADA wanted to continue to gather evidence and not compromising its ability to prosecute a case.
2) AFL wanted to punish EFC so dissuade these programs in the future, ensuring in the future coaches would always use the Club doctors and that Club doctors would pay the appropriate attention/have appropriate power to nip these scenarios in the bud.

All the AFL had to do was use Ziggy report to accomplish the latter, but they wanted more.....

Why? Well "Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

 

[becalm]

gills, lets talk about this off air, smacks of a bully picking a fight after school, then not turning up. clearly flustered and saying anything he could to not answer the questions asked

Gee I get a laugh from you Essendon supporters. You seem to think having Alan Jones as a PR is good. This is just another Hird PR man who is useless along with all the others. Fancy him challenging Gill the way he did. The only people who could possibly help Hird is the AFL and this is what they do. Hird must be desperate to tackle the head of the AFL in this way.

 

[Haduken]

But we have all these torches and pitchforks here ready to go.

We've had them for years now!

We can't just let them go to waste, regardless of the findings!

This thread, more than any other, defines what the HTB has become.

 

[Tiger2709]

Do you have any other recommendations from your book club?
Or we could do dinner and a show?...........minus the dinner and the show.

Hahahahahaaaaaaa nice

Did you run out of h"s?

 

[FFC_RoyBoys]

I think we can all agree this was handled poorly from all parties.

Essendon should have shut up shop and lawyered up from the start.

AFL shouldn't have worried about how they looked and instead be out of the picture and let ASADA run the investigation to their timeline.

ASADA and Andruska shouldn't have let the AFL bully her into the AFLs agenda and used their own powers to conduct their own investigation separate to anyone else.

Regards, This peasants thoughts.

I am not so sure that the above approach would have ever worked.

From what I remember, the signed agreement between the AFL and ASADA compels the AFL to fully co-operate with any ASADA investigation. It is not a matter of choice, lawyering up would not have helped EFC one iota as the AFL still had legally binding agreements with all players and staff which would compel them to answer any questions put to them and, the AFL is compelled to hand the info to ASADA.

As far as I can see the only argument EFC could have mounted is to assert that the players contracts are invalid and sought relief through the courts against the AFL.

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

.......

If the AFL had have followed their own procedures it is highly likely that:

1. There would have been no sports science 'arms race' as Demetriou regularly called it prior to Essendon being put under the microscope
2. There wouldn't have been governance failures at Essendon, nor at the other 12 clubs that answered the survey in a fashion that would suggest they had similar failures
3. Dank's practices could potentially have been exposed and remedied at Gold Coast or in his role providing consulting services to Robinson at Geelong, way before he caused problems at Essendon and before he was starting to consult with Melbourne players
4. There wouldn't be players exposed to health risks

Yep, valid point. To some degree though, the AFL appear to have been trying initially to keep the spotlight off of Essendon, unfortunately someone (or someones) didn't heed the warning, cover-ups, et al. And I'd love to see a full, impartial investigation into the period of about early 2011 through to Essendon's self-reporting, but I don't think we'll get one. Would be interesting to see how far back the cover-ups go and who else is involved.

Does make you wonder if GC and/or other clubs were also warned - but was it a case that those other clubs headed the warnings and sent Dank off premise? There seems to be a trail of breadcrumbs that sequentially move from club to club ... like the miracle cure peddler of old, quickly moving on to the next town as the tip-off happens.

Was Essendon's failure not to move him on quick enough?

 

[D-N-R]

I'll give you the response you don't want to hear:

- the AFL anti-doping policy sets out procedures that the AFL is supposed to follow at the commencement of each season regarding the documentation of substances.

And the clubs are supposed to follow. This isn't a one-way street. The quotes that have been used to defend Hird's care for the players 'we should record the injections...' ' they must be legal' etc. These are givens. These are things which the EFC should have done as a matter of course.

- ASADA's case is that Dank injected the players with a banned substance (Thymosin Beta 4) without the players' knowledge.

The bolded part is just wishful thinking on your part. I have never seen anything to say that this is the stance ASADA are taking.

- Bruce Reid went to the AFL in pre-season 2012 and told them that there was unauthorised injections (tribulus) happening at Essendon and there was no follow up

This is the quote from the charge sheet;

54.On 13 January 2012, Reid became aware that players had been administered Tribulus orally and had been injected with AOD-9604 without his approval.

But then the AFL asked ASADA to send some samples to Germany. So they didn't do 'nothing'. Reid wrote a letter, and from what we have seen, the program continued to spiral out of control internally. There were a number of confrontations at the club between Dank and the staff, but the program continued unabated.

- The AFL was aware that something dodgy was happening because Harcourt admitted as much and they were sending samples to Germany for peptide testing

What more should the AFL have done? They warned Hird in 2011. They had samples sent to Germany for testing.

If the AFL had have followed their own procedures it is highly likely that:

1. There would have been no sports science 'arms race' as Demetriou regularly called it prior to Essendon being put under the microscope

Perhaps the AFL could have stepped in and introduced stricter limits, like those which have now been implemented. However, the AFL had set up procedures through the ASADA and AFL doping codes. Players and staff are educated every year on their responsibilities to this code. The players have access to lawyers through the AFLPA where they can get independent and confidential advice away from the pressures of their clubs. At some point the AFL have to let clubs make their own judgements and decisions. Unless the AFL, as Gil indicated in his interview, watch over every procedure taken by every club all the time, there isn't a lot more they can do. This would be unworkable and would be rejected by the teams as unwarranted.

2. There wouldn't have been governance failures at Essendon, nor at the other 12 clubs that answered the survey in a fashion that would suggest they had similar failures

The governance failures at the other 12 clubs would pale into insignificance against the complete inept mismanagement present at the EFC.
'Not have a single point of accountability' >>>>>>>>>'Having no accountability'.
There are standards and protocols to follow about the sourcing of supplements, yet the EFC couldn't even follow this.

3. Dank's practices could potentially have been exposed and remedied at Gold Coast or in his role providing consulting services to Robinson at Geelong, way before he caused problems at Essendon and before he was starting to consult with Melbourne players

Your club hired him and, if I recall correctly, failed to follow your own protocol in the hiring process. Perhaps a word with some of Dank's previous employers might have raised a few eyebrows.
The AFL have just implemented a minimum standard for AFL coaches which even restricts the people who can train for it and this procedure is being condemned on these very boards as draconian and dictatorial. Perhaps if the AFL applied this to every position at every club would make you happy?

4. There wouldn't be players exposed to health risks

You can't lay the blame for this at the feet of the AFL.

In short. The AFL provide a lot of resources and procedures to protect the health and wellbeing of the players. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

 

[FFC_RoyBoys]

I did that on Google maps. It gave me the location of windy hill!

FMD! I thought it was a joke, but it is actually correct....go figure!

 

[RegHickeyStand]

But we have all these torches and pitchforks here ready to go.

We've had them for years now!

We can't just let them go to waste, regardless of the findings!

This thread, more than any other, defines what the HTB has become.

You say that about every thread.

 

[Reality rules]

But we have all these torches and pitchforks here ready to go.

We've had them for years now!

We can't just let them go to waste, regardless of the findings!

This thread, more than any other, defines what the HTB has become.

Perhaps you should have a garage sale or try your luck on gumtree. Ebay's another good option if all else fails.

 

[D-N-R]

Information which ;

A) Needs to remain confidential (don't want to compromise sources/investigation until the ASADA case is built).
B) We are not sure if we can rely on at this stage (we need more supporting evidence).
C) Would break the law to use this (ACC evidence).
D) Publication could lead to court action for slander (his word vs hers etc see B).
E) Which was gathered incorrectly/inappropriately which will be thrown out anyway by the tribunal.

How about those meanings?

There was another quote from Andruska's notebook about "guilty until proven guilty" which got a few knickers in a twist until someone actually looked at it in context and found that it was a quote about players' concerns.

http://cdndata.bigfooty.com/2014/12/98947_1877940f98a7232a65e45bedb915eb77.png

You are correct that the meaning could be any number of things.

But, I'm not even sure that if it means exactly what people think, if that was wrong. The AFL's agenda, as they state, was to "strip points" of Essendon. i.e. remove them from the finals. The point of the Interim Report was to punish Essendon, not to provide some sort of balanced account of what had been gathered thus far.

If you are the prosecutor in a court case, you destroy someone's character by hi-lighting the bad this they have done. You don't talk about all the charity work they have done, that's the job of their defence. The AFL were the prosecutor in this matter.

You could argue that ASADA had no right to get involved, but it is also a fact that a lot of this evidence they had was the property of the AFL. By staying out of it, ASADA might have let the AFL reveal something that compromised their investigation, so getting on board might have been the lesser of two evils.

 

[Haduken]

You say that about every thread.

Well a lot of furious typing and not much else has happened. It's almost like these crazy peons think what they write here matters somwhere

Perhaps you should have a garage sale or try your luck on gumtree. Ebay's another good option if all else fails.

Not enough of a market or interest from the Bulldog's betting scandal though...