Multiplat Anthem

[woota]

It was this game that was the final straw for me when it came to click baity reviewers like Skill Up. He sat on his Metro Exodus review for two weeks (when he had a pre-release review copy) so he could churn out tweets and videos about this game for the clicks.

Like I said at the launch of this game, the actual moment to moment gameplay is fantastic. As in the movement, shooting, flying etc. It's just too obvious that the game has been hacked up and restarted. There are some great missions which were probably a part of the original project, but then there is **** loads of filler. The open world and NPCs are the fort are probably also a carry over from the original project. It's clear at one point it was meant to be more of an RPG but that was scrapped when it got rebooted. This game had genuine potential IMO so it's a shame.

I'll probably try Cataclysm because I have Origin Premiere so it won't cost me anything but I'll be surprised if it will reinvigorate the game even if it's good. First impressions last and BioWare's reputation is currently in tatters.

Yeah it was Skill Up's review that made me think this game was going to be an absolute disaster that should be avoided like the plague. But keep in mind that he reviewed an early access version of the game, even before the Day 1 Patch came out. There's has been loads of updates since then, which have fixed a lot of the problems the game had at launch.

I'm not sure what you mean about the NPCs/open world being a carry over from the original project, but to me it feels like 2 different games were joined together. You have the third-person action element of the game that happens while you're in the javelin suit, but the first-person POV in Fort Tarsis feels like an RPG that has nothing to do with the rest of the game.

 

[dwwaino]

Yeah it was Skill Up's review that made me think this game was going to be an absolute disaster that should be avoided like the plague. But keep in mind that he reviewed an early access version of the game, even before the Day 1 Patch came out. There's has been loads of updates since then, which have fixed a lot of the problems the game had at launch.

I'm not sure what you mean about the NPCs/open world being a carry over from the original project, but to me it feels like 2 different games were joined together. You have the third-person action element of the game that happens while you're in the javelin suit, but the first-person POV in Fort Tarsis feels like an RPG that has nothing to do with the rest of the game.

He played the same version that everyone else on Origin/EA Access got, this was the same version I played. The day one patch was a week later when the game released to everyone else which addressed bugs but didn't add any content. At least a lot of people finally saw him for what he was around this time. It was also around then he got called out by Bethesda with his click bait video about Rage 2, only to follow it up with an apology video but he still kept the negative click bait video up.

This game was rebooted only a couple years before launch (there have been numerous articles about it, some 12 months before the game released) and you feeling like there are two different games is exactly that. I believe the original design was for the game to be an RPG with a persistent world. Once the project was rebooted the RPG elements were scaled back but they remained in the game but are totally disconnected as you explained. You can even notice which missions were a part of the original design - the tomb of General Tarsis for example stands out like a sore thumb amongst all the others which are go here, defend that, kill these. I know someone who was the former editor of a large Australian gaming magazine and he got to play some Anthem at a private event 6 months before it was released. He said the same thing then that we are now. Much of the gameplay was fantastic but he said the content was rough. The disappointing thing was that the game hardly changed from what he played to what we got at release. We didn't even get a mention of Dragon Age 4 at EA Play so there is really something up at BioWare at the moment.

 

[woota]

He played the same version that everyone else on Origin/EA Access got, this was the same version I played. The day one patch was a week later when the game released to everyone else which addressed bugs but didn't add any content. At least a lot of people finally saw him for what he was around this time. It was also around then he got called out by Bethesda with his click bait video about Rage 2, only to follow it up with an apology video but he still kept the negative click bait video up.

This game was rebooted only a couple years before launch (there have been numerous articles about it, some 12 months before the game released) and you feeling like there are two different games is exactly that. I believe the original design was for the game to be an RPG with a persistent world. Once the project was rebooted the RPG elements were scaled back but they remained in the game but are totally disconnected as you explained. You can even notice which missions were a part of the original design - the tomb of General Tarsis for example stands out like a sore thumb amongst all the others which are go here, defend that, kill these. I know someone who was the former editor of a large Australian gaming magazine and he got to play some Anthem at a private event 6 months before it was released. He said the same thing then that we are now. Much of the gameplay was fantastic but he said the content was rough. The disappointing thing was that the game hardly changed from what he played to what we got at release. We didn't even get a mention of Dragon Age 4 at EA Play so there is really something up at BioWare at the moment.

I'm just hoping that this game isn't the last we see of Anthem. I hope the game gets plenty more content and restores people's faith in Bioware (similar to what Hello Games did with No Man's Sky) so that we get a sequel on next gen. I know it review bombed hard and sold below EA's expectations, but IMO this game really deserves a sequel because what they've created here is a great foundation. The whole concept is awesome with the freelancers and the different javelins and I think the world of Bastion, as stunning as it looks already, would be absolutely jaw-dropping on the next-gen consoles.

 

[pantskyle]

I'm just hoping that this game isn't the last we see of Anthem. I hope the game gets plenty more content and restores people's faith in Bioware (similar to what Hello Games did with No Man's Sky) so that we get a sequel on next gen. I know it review bombed hard and sold below EA's expectations, but IMO this game really deserves a sequel because what they've created here is a great foundation. The whole concept is awesome with the freelancers and the different javelins and I think the world of Bastion, as stunning as it looks already, would be absolutely jaw-dropping on the next-gen consoles.

You have to keep in mind that the makers also admitted they ****ed it up. Everything about this game was done wrong. It's a bit like the first Destiny, not what the gamer expected. The Legion of Dawn edition is $19 on Amazon and not even tempting.

 

[woota]

You have to keep in mind that the makers also admitted they ****** it up. Everything about this game was done wrong. It's a bit like the first Destiny, not what the gamer expected. The Legion of Dawn edition is $19 on Amazon and not even tempting.

Have you even played the game? Because I don't know how anyone whose played the game could actually believe that. The game has flaws, but there's also a lot to like about it. The combat and movement mechanics are superb. The voice acting/dialogue when you're in the javelin suit and listening to your colleagues banter during missions is really well done. The 4 different javelins are so unique in how they look, move, and function. Obviously having characters with different strengths and weaknesses is nothing new in video games, but the way it was implemented here is excellent in terms of how the different javelins cater to different styles of play. The depth of customization for your javelin's cosmetics is also great for people who are into that sort of thing. The world of bastion is stunning and filled with many nice touches that create an atmosphere and make it feel alive, such as the wildlife and the different animal calls that surround you. Compare this to a game like Rage 2 where the open world feels barren and lifeless.

People seem to be focusing only on what this game did wrong and completely overlooking the many things it did right.

 

[pantskyle]

Have you even played the game? Because I don't know how anyone whose played the game could actually believe that. The game has flaws, but there's also a lot to like about it. The combat and movement mechanics are superb. The voice acting/dialogue when you're in the javelin suit and listening to your colleagues banter during missions is really well done. The 4 different javelins are so unique in how they look, move, and function. Obviously having characters with different strengths and weaknesses is nothing new in video games, but the way it was implemented here is excellent in terms of how the different javelins cater to different styles of play. The depth of customization for your javelin's cosmetics is also great for people who are into that sort of thing. The world of bastion is stunning and filled with many nice touches that create an atmosphere and make it feel alive, such as the wildlife and the different animal calls that surround you. Compare this to a game like Rage 2 where the open world feels barren and lifeless.

People seem to be focusing only on what this game did wrong and completely overlooking the many things it did right.

I've played the BETA and that was enough for me. Literally nothing grabbed me from that nor prior to release. Maybe they'll get players back with continued updates but one of the bigger grievances I've seen from current players is how boring the world is, long load times and the home base is a massive chore.

 

[woota]

I've played the BETA and that was enough for me. Literally nothing grabbed me from that nor prior to release. Maybe they'll get players back with continued updates but one of the bigger grievances I've seen from current players is how boring the world is, long load times and the home base is a massive chore.

Well I agree with the last 2 points and those are valid criticisms, which are a big part of the reason that the game reviewed poorly. As far as the world being boring, I'm guessing that criticism is directed at "freeplay" mode where you just free roam around the world with other online players. I agree the world is a bit boring in freeplay because there's often nothing to do, you just fly around looking for enemies and waiting for random missions to pop up. That needs to be fixed.

 

[bourbons]

Just wish they'd been allowed to make a typical Bioware game along the same lines as Mass Effect or Dragon Age, I'd be all over it.

Yet another game-as-service looter shooter, no thanks.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Just wish they'd been allowed to make a typical Bioware game along the same lines as Mass Effect or Dragon Age, I'd be all over it.

Yet another game-as-service looter shooter, no thanks.

Apparently game as service is what DA4 will be adopting too.....

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I've played the BETA and that was enough for me. Literally nothing grabbed me from that nor prior to release. Maybe they'll get players back with continued updates but one of the bigger grievances I've seen from current players is how boring the world is, long load times and the home base is a massive chore.

Apparently the load times are to improve (they are beyond stupid)

The two biggest gripes are unknown tbh

The bases are a ****ing chore. Being able to skip through dialogue would be a big improvement alone, and it's something people are screaming for. Shouldn't be to hard to do you would hope.

Many were hoping the cataclysm would change the boring, but the test sites have been underwhelming. EA need to get bioware to rework them and add much much more variation of terrain and foes

Right now it's very boring for me because of these and the story. All can be remedies IF EA is prepared to do it

 

[pantskyle]

Apparently the load times are to improve (they are beyond stupid)

The two biggest gripes are unknown tbh

The bases are a ******* chore. Being able to skip through dialogue would be a big improvement alone, and it's something people are screaming for. Shouldn't be to hard to do you would hope.

Many were hoping the cataclysm would change the boring, but the test sites have been underwhelming. EA need to get bioware to rework them and add much much more variation of terrain and foes

Right now it's very boring for me because of these and the story. All can be remedies IF EA is prepared to do it

Do you want to join the Warriors?

 

[bourbons]

Apparently game as service is what DA4 will be adopting too.....

I have no doubt

 

[dwwaino]

Apparently game as service is what DA4 will be adopting too.....

Given that they didn't even tease it at EA Play after being announced in 2017, I'm guessing it's in a bit of trouble or the team and/or game is being overhauled in light of backlash of their most recent games. The real BioWare is dead, this is BioWare in name only.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Given that they didn't even tease it at EA Play after being announced in 2017, I'm guessing it's in a bit of trouble or the team and/or game is being overhauled in light of backlash of their most recent games. The real BioWare is dead, this is BioWare in name only.

The DA4 game is in its second incarnation

First version was you were a thief/assassin, taking contracts in tevinter.

That got dumped when they needed staff for Andromeda or Anthem (forget which)

No rumours on what the new story is. Apparently bioware insiders are jokingly calling it anthem with dragons, which isn't good. Yes, they are using the same engine anthem is using (which might be cool, as gameplay isn't an anthem issue), but the slur is not just about the engine apparently

 

[bourbons]

The DA4 game is in its second incarnation

First version was you were a thief/assassin, taking contracts in tevinter.

That got dumped when they needed staff for Andromeda or Anthem (forget which)

No rumours on what the new story is. Apparently bioware insiders are jokingly calling it anthem with dragons, which isn't good. Yes, they are using the same engine anthem is using (which might be cool, as gameplay isn't an anthem issue), but the slur is not just about the engine apparently

Sounds like its going great!

lol

 

[dwwaino]

The DA4 game is in its second incarnation

First version was you were a thief/assassin, taking contracts in tevinter.

That got dumped when they needed staff for Andromeda or Anthem (forget which)

No rumours on what the new story is. Apparently bioware insiders are jokingly calling it anthem with dragons, which isn't good. Yes, they are using the same engine anthem is using (which might be cool, as gameplay isn't an anthem issue), but the slur is not just about the engine apparently

Using Frostbite isn't uncommon for an EA studio so it's no surprise at all. What's surprising is that plenty of former BioWare employees were blaming the engine for a lot of development issues during Andromeda and Anthem yet they are going back to it.

Last I read about the next Dragon Age was mostly how it was going to be an 'inclusive' game. I would have thought BioWare have bigger issues than pandering to an audience right now.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Using Frostbite isn't uncommon for an EA studio so it's no surprise at all. What's surprising is that plenty of former BioWare employees were blaming the engine for a lot of development issues during Andromeda and Anthem yet they are going back to it.

Last I read about the next Dragon Age was mostly how it was going to be an 'inclusive' game. I would have thought BioWare have bigger issues than pandering to an audience right now.

Bioware games have been inclusive for years, that's a no brainer

Frostbite is a bitch because they have to come up with a shitload of manual workarounds to make it function in a third person view rpg. Once they sort it out (like with DA3 it works, but one design usually pays the price for working it all out)

Someone did the math on how much a royalty they would have paid on Andromeda if they used their original unreal engine, and it was low millions - much less than they burnt trying to reengineer frostbite every ****ing time

 

[dwwaino]

Bioware games have been inclusive for years, that's a no brainer

Frostbite is a bitch because they have to come up with a ****load of manual workarounds to make it function in a third person view rpg. Once they sort it out (like with DA3 it works, but one design usually pays the price for working it all out)

Someone did the math on how much a royalty they would have paid on Andromeda if they used their original unreal engine, and it was low millions - much less than they burnt trying to reengineer frostbite every ******* time

Do you actually know what it actually is that makes Frostbite hard to work with for anything that isn't Battlefield? I hear this a lot and nobody has an answer because it's just something they read somewhere. I can boot up Unity, Unreal or CryEngine to make the same thing and the workflow hardly changes. I find it hard to believe that any proprietary engine would be drastically different to industry standards. Other developers don't have any issues custom tooling and modifying these third party engines. As an EA subsidiary Bioware would have adequate access to Frostbite techs and it's something that should have been addressed at their initial design stages like it does for any software development planning

Epic take a cut of 12% from Unreal games and unlike Unity they don't have tiers, so based on the $110million that wikipedia says Andromeda earned then that's a cost of $13.2million in royalties. That's pretty hefty, but whether that's more or less than pushing shit up hill with Frostbite I guess is up to EA as they're paying the bills.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Do you actually know what it actually is that makes Frostbite hard to work with for anything that isn't Battlefield? I hear this a lot and nobody has an answer because it's just something they read somewhere. I can boot up Unity, Unreal or CryEngine to make the same thing and the workflow hardly changes. I find it hard to believe that any proprietary engine would be drastically different to industry standards. Other developers don't have any issues custom tooling and modifying these third party engines. As an EA subsidiary Bioware would have adequate access to Frostbite techs and it's something that should have been addressed at their initial design stages like it does for any software development planning

Epic take a cut of 12% from Unreal games and unlike Unity they don't have tiers, so based on the $110million that wikipedia says Andromeda earned then that's a cost of $13.2million in royalties. That's pretty hefty, but whether that's more or less than pushing **** up hill with Frostbite I guess is up to EA as they're paying the bills.

First person and not third person view
No inventory management system
No tactical view
Very weak for npc management

The first is a big issue. With character creation "you" are always looking different, and this has to feature in third person views. This means they have to work around not only the third person viewability, but the custom features rendering on it properly (bioware changing subbies for this on andromeda twice was a big reason for the ****ed faces in that game)

 

[dwwaino]

First person and not third person view
No inventory management system
No tactical view
Very weak for npc management

These are things you have to build yourself in any engine with the exception of Unity's 2019 update that ships with Cinemachine (though I have a custom camera script that is reusable in any version anyway).

 

[Ned_Flanders]

These are things you have to build yourself in any engine with the exception of Unity's 2019 update that ships with Cinemachine (though I have a custom camera script that is reusable in any version anyway).

The way it's spoken about (I'm not a programmer, stopped studying that in the 90s ) frostbite isn't as easy as the other engines to accept this customisation. It does what it was designed for brilliantly, but doesn't like being tinkered with

A podcast with a bioware ex peep I listened to years ago gave the example of DA3 and it's problems with character lock in scenery and buildings. It was an issue they could never completely eliminate, without the fix ****ing something else up.

 

[dwwaino]

The way it's spoken about (I'm not a programmer, stopped studying that in the 90s ) frostbite isn't as easy as the other engines to accept this customisation. It does what it was designed for brilliantly, but doesn't like being tinkered with

A podcast with a bioware ex peep I listened to years ago gave the example of DA3 and it's problems with character lock in scenery and buildings. It was an issue they could never completely eliminate, without the fix ******* something else up.

I'm not denying there aren't difficulties with working with it, but I just can't find what or why and everything I read from Bioware just sounds like an excuse. As a qualified programmer (and long time indie game wannabe until conceding I'm just a programmer, not an artist lol) I'd love to hear in technical terms what the issue actually is when smaller developers manage to custom tool third party engines. Those things you listed though are pretty standard things you build yourself. Nothing is pre-made to simply drag and drop, these engines are blank slates

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm not denying there aren't difficulties with working with it, but I just can't find what or why and everything I read from Bioware just sounds like an excuse. As a qualified programmer (and long time indie game wannabe until conceding I'm just a programmer, not an artist lol) I'd love to hear in technical terms what the issue actually is when smaller developers manage to custom tool third party engines. Those things you listed though are pretty standard things you build yourself. Nothing is pre-made to simply drag and drop, these engines are blank slates

I'd agree it's a bioware alone issue, but it's been a problem across bioware regardless of management at the time (and there has been a lot of churn), and one of the other EA stable faced similar issues (gone mental blank on who they ****ing are!!!!!)

Tbh most my reading on this goes back to DA3 and leading into Andromeda, so I can't remember any good source that discussed it purely from a tech perspective

 

[Mantastic]

It's not like DICE haven't had launch issues with their games in recent years and they built the bloody engine. BF4 might still be the worst launch this gen.

 

[woota]

The end level bosses in this game are kinda lulzy in terms of how huge they are and how big their health bar is. The sheer ridiculousness of it...its almost like a parody of a video game. I suppose it makes sense when you consider that it's designed as a co-op experience, but if you try doing some of the strongholds by yourself it's just obscene.