Anti-Franklin umpiring taken to a new level

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Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

Well said.
Quickest to blow a free kick against Buddy than any other player in the leauge.
When he is pushed or held nothing comes for us!!!
So fustrating.

oh yeh, poor Hawthorn get so hard done by.

Every team's supporters believe this happens to them ffs
 
Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

Some players get awarded the softest frees for having their run at ball blocked by opponents. Yet I've never seen Buddy receive a free kick for this, despite putting up with this in every game he plays..

Absolutely Spot On.

Its not limited to defenders either... The amount of shepherding that goes on that is not within 5 metres is ridiculous.
 
Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

Just because he has the most frees against doesn't mean that the umpires go out of their way to penalise him.
But the umpires do go out of their way. It's interesting that the hands in the back rule seems to have gone out the window recently and so many players are getting away with it, but not Franklin.

I also mentioned how gets penalised nearly every time he lays a tackle. I didn't need to see those stats to confirm this. But it's interesting to see them published alongside Riewoldt's numbers. Riewoldt is a good footballer, but he has a tendency to highlight the contact he receives from defenders. I'd hate to see Buddy go down the same path and take a tumble, just so he can get an even break from umpires.

15 frees for. Honestly... Ask yourselves: is it logical that Franklin has only been infringed against once per game this season?

On another note Hawthorn fans all brag about their teams "unsociable football" and how they are the toughest team in the league.
Hawk fans don't brag about this. :confused: This whole "unsociable football" thing is the biggest pile of faeces ever. It's a media creation. They're the only people who bang on about this crap. Hawthorn play hard, but fair. They're no different to 50% of teams. They probably don't stage for free kicks as well as other teams.

Then when they get frees paid against them they whinge.
I don't whinge about the frees against. All I ask for is that the rules are umpired consistently from week to week. I'd like our games to umpired the same as other games. Hawthorn tackle hard like the Sydney Swans, but they get penalised more often for very technical infringements. No doubt, this is due to all this horseshit about us playing "unsociable" football.

If Will Minson falls on top of one of our players and drives his forearm into their head while they're both on the ground, then I'd like the umpires to treat this same as when he does it the next week to another player from another team. No free to us. Yet he's penalised the following week for the same shit.

The problem is the umpires don't treat each contest on its own merit. Anyone can see that they bring their pre-conceived notions and prejudices with them into every decision they make. This is why Judd and Ablett receive free kicks for holdong that no one else receives. They are looking for it. Just the same as they are looking for Buddy's infringements.

You can't expect to play unsociable football and get a good ride with the umpires.
I agree. False perceptions can definitely weigh against a football side. I've seen it happen before, to the Western Bulldogs in 1997. They were continually crucified by umpires and tribunal for playing "unsociable football". It never registered with umpires that they were the AFL's most skillful team and they weren't the "bad boys" that the media continually portrayed them as.


Anyway, what does this have to do with Franklin's lack of protection from the umpires?
 

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Brent Renouf wraps his arms around Cox at a centre bounce. Umpire blows his whistle, every single player in the centre square stops and looks at the umpire as he explains the free kick, with the exception of Daniel Kerr. Fully 2 or 3 seconds elapses while the umpire details the infringement, while Kerr runs away from the circle to the point of the square, when the umpire then calls "play on, advantage" Absolutely ridiculous. Here is a revolutionary idea: When the umpire sees a free kick, he just signals the free without whistling. He waits 2 seconds to see if there is an advantage unfolding. If there is, the ball game continues without any need for talk or whistle. If there is no advantage, then blow the whistle and award the free kick.

Every junior footballer in the country is told to play to the whistle. If you don't hear the whistle son, then you keep playing. If you hear the whistle, you stop. What is currently happening is that umpires are creating advantages for teams, rather than just allowing them to happen. It is wrong.

A player hears the whistle, but doesn't stop, because he has learnt that the umpires will pay ridiculous advantages sometimes, and if the free kick is for his side, then he might be a chance for a goal. He doesn't know which of the myriad of technical frees the umpire has plucked on this occasion. He hits Roughead on the tit with a beautifully weighted pass, and as he is heading back into defence, cursing the 50m penalty he has just cost his team for kicking the ball away after an opposition free kick has been awarded (the hypothetical player is again Jordan Lewis, the infringement was against Rob Campbell for pushing Cox in the back at a ball up ;)), he hears the umpire telling him "you heard the whistle, but you just kept going."

They are sending mixed messages. It is wrong.

I shouldn't have mentioned Buddy in the title of this thread. I only did it for the comedy value, with an umpire seemingly heckling Lance as he lined up for goal. I thought it was funny. But this thread isn't about Lance Franklin's rough ride at the hands of the umps (nor Jordan Lewis' for that matter). This thread is about how the game is umpired. I think there are some alterations that need to be made to improve the game.

I think the umpires are a team just like any other. They are coached, they are in or out of form, they are human and make mistakes. I'm not trying to umpire bash or anything, I am after a better collective performance from the umpiring team.

Please, add your own suggestions, improve mine, whatever, I'm interested to hear what you think (especially from any umpires out there). What would you change? What problems can you envisage for any suggested improvements? What will make the game better?


It seems like a good idea to play advantage like they do in union (just a call of advantage, then the whistle if none is gained)....BUT, in union, unless a line is broken, the play doesnt move very far, the umpire keeps up, no one moves far from the umpire before he can see if advantage is gained, and thus the players will always hear the whistle.

If you were to have no whistle in afl, the play would move on too quickly with people moving in all directions...in almost every free kick situation people wouldnt be hearing the whistle when it did get blown..and hence the game would be slowed down enormously.
 
When you play from behind all the time of course your gonna give away more free kicks. Its common sense.
 
Hmmm, so you are saying all of the umpires are conspiring against Hawthorn (with no motive yet suggested) by paying free kicks against Franklin.

I'm sick of this freaking whinging non-stop. The umpires umpire the game, thats what they are there to do. They don't favour/target teams, it only appears so because you are LOOKING for signs that they do. Pull your heads in.
 
Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

The stats are interesting in the Stevens article but not much analysis of the how and why of the frees and are they justified. I tried having a think and a look at it.

When you do that, you see that it probably is about right for the role and way he plays and the Hawks game plan as far as the Frees Against anyway. The frees For, he might be slightly unlucky (from the live action on Friday there seemed to be some that could of went his way) but no worse then any other of the key forwards in the league.

Any one with the paper version of this, how is the story placed? Is it in a type of Champion Data/Stats/SuperCoach section of the Sports pages or just another article? Could explain the context and lack of analysis.

I also looked at Riewoldt's frees and why he had a better differental and you would have to think that logical as well!

The one thing I didn't mention is that it is interesting that the one hardest hit by the in the back rule is a forward and not back as everyone predicted last year!

Thanks for some balanced posting Molly :thumbsu:
 
Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

He got penalised recently for holding the ball after being swung around 360 degrees and firing out a 25 metre handpass (which hit the target)

How can it be holding the ball, if you handball it into the next postcode?

Where in the rulebook does it mention ANYTHING about getting spun around 360 degrees?

If you have time to spin 360 degrees, you have time to get rid of the ball. This rule is applied pretty consistently across the comp, this isn't a Buddy rule...
 
Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

If you have time to spin 360 degrees, you have time to get rid of the ball. This rule is applied pretty consistently across the comp, this isn't a Buddy rule...

The rule states that a player who hasn't had a prior opportunity shall be given a reasonable time to dispose of the football once tackled. Umpires are instructed that being swung 360 degrees is deemed as a reasonable time and therefore a free kick should be applied for holding the ball. How far he kicks or handballs it is irrelevant as the decision is already made in the umpires mind.
 
Oh go have a whinge on your own board Hawthorn supporters. It seems Buddy is the only getting harshly umpired hey? Buddy isn't going to be given a free ride any more. Buddy's a clever footballer but he gets away with a few things and these few weeks it seems the umps have taken notice. You guys say Buddy gets all media attention and its just a beat up etc. when you guys are the ones also putting him in the spotlight. It's all about Buddy. Buddy this Buddy this. Buddy doesn't get what he wants his supporters have a cry. Far out, Buddy love has gone too far.
 
Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

It's a joke, the number of times he gets scragged or has his arms chopped in marking contests, but doesn't get awarded a free kick.
No different to any other key forward. Buddy gets about the same number of frees per game as Lloyd, Fevola etc. He just gives away a lot more.
Interesting that McPhee is second on that list. IMHO McPhee only needs to sneeze these days to give away a free. BUT he also has a history of being undisciplined and careless with his tackles. Buddy can be similarly careless.
 

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Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

No different to any other key forward. Buddy gets about the same number of frees per game as Lloyd, Fevola etc. He just gives away a lot more.
Interesting that McPhee is second on that list. IMHO McPhee only needs to sneeze these days to give away a free. BUT he also has a history of being undisciplined and careless with his tackles. Buddy can be similarly careless.

Agree with this post.

As Chewy said the title was misleading (it was after all posted elsewhere), its more about the inconsistency in decisions.

Some players are more likely to get a free kick for and others you can bet your house on are going to be given against.
 
Perhaps rather than singling him out for better treatment, someone should teach him the rules.

The article from the Herald Sun I read on this at no point took into consideration the way he plays.

It's plainly obvious the umpires are only looking at Franklin in the marking contests to see whether or not he places hands in the back. Maybe Franklin would be better off if played for frees like Riewoldt and fell over every time he received the slightest contact. Can you believe those stats for Riewoldt? 111 frees for, 25 frees against...

You come across as a clown right here, Chewy. You probably aren't, but just sayin'.

To claim Riewoldt plays for frees is pretty frustrating though. Riewoldt is a player that cops a lot on the field and doesn't complain.

And like the author of that article, you also have not taken into account Riewoldt's and Franklin's style of play.

Riewoldt plays from the front, and so is frequently pushed in the back, or his opponent gets their hands over his shoulders, and a free is paid to him for this. As it should be.

Franklin plays from behind, and often tries to hold his opponent out of the marking contest. A free is paid against him for this. As it should be.

Franklin needs to wise up.

And those such as yourself need to stop making clown-like statements, denigrating great players out of spite.
 
FOR THOSE THAT HAVEN"T FIGURED IT OUT

(if there are any new readers of a thread on the umpires board)



I started a thread titled "Anti-Franklin umpiring taken to a new level"

The title is a joke. The thread is not about Lance Franklin, it was about umpires talking to players, coaching them on the field. I posted some Youtube of an umpire yelling "DON'T GO IN!" as Lance kicks for goal, hence the title.


A seperate thread was started on the main board about todays Herald Sun article, discussing Franklin and the umpires. It would seem the moderators have judged my thread by it's title alone (haha even they don't read threads on the umpires board) and have merged the two.



I am now going to delete my original post, and use it to start a more appropriatley titled thread. Perhaps the moderators could change the title of this thread to "No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin" seeing as that is what most of the discussion is based on.

Pfft, I'm wasting time even asking for that. Not one new post since 1 o'clock.


The umpires board. Pffft.
 
omg when buddy actually WINS something other then a game then complain.. He is being pinged for a reason, and at the moment he is green as they come in fact I reckon his sister has better self control. Plus she seems to move better. Maybe you got the wrong buddy out there..


This happens to Fev every weekend loser and Loyld and Rocca, and Cloke and did I mention old Didak...

wheres the breaks hey.

On an offtopic note. Why is it whenever Hawthorn recieve a free kick EVERY loser in the crowd that goes for them yells 50m EVERYTIME.

its so annoying. Earn it.

Enjoy losing a grand final this year hawthorn :) already placed money on it
 
omg when buddy actually WINS something other then a game then complain..

What exactly do you mean? We shouldn't discuss Buddy's treatment at the hands of the umpires until he wins something? If he wins the Lou Richards handball comp, could we discuss it then?

He is being pinged for a reason

Hence the discussion, what is this reason? Does he infringe twice as often as he is infringed against? Do the umpires judge him more harshly? It's a worthy discussion point.

...and at the moment he is green as they come in fact I reckon his sister has better self control. Plus she seems to move better. Maybe you got the wrong buddy out there..

Are you talking about Franklin's play and how the umpires see it, or are you just sledging the Hawks and Buddy?

Take it to bay 13 chief.
 
Perhaps rather than singling him out for better treatment, someone should teach him the rules.

The article from the Herald Sun I read on this at no point took into consideration the way he plays.

You come across as a clown right here, Chewy. You probably aren't, but just sayin'.

To claim Riewoldt plays for frees is pretty frustrating though. Riewoldt is a player that cops a lot on the field and doesn't complain.

And like the author of that article, you also have not taken into account Riewoldt's and Franklin's style of play.

Riewoldt plays from the front, and so is frequently pushed in the back, or his opponent gets their hands over his shoulders, and a free is paid to him for this. As it should be.

Franklin plays from behind, and often tries to hold his opponent out of the marking contest. A free is paid against him for this. As it should be.

Franklin needs to wise up.

And those such as yourself need to stop making clown-like statements, denigrating great players out of spite.


Heh heh... clown:D
 
Re: No love lost between umps and Hawks star Buddy Franklin

The rule states that a player who hasn't had a prior opportunity shall be given a reasonable time to dispose of the football once tackled. Umpires are instructed that being swung 360 degrees is deemed as a reasonable time and therefore a free kick should be applied for holding the ball. How far he kicks or handballs it is irrelevant as the decision is already made in the umpires mind.
If this is true, then it proves to me that the people who are instructing the umpires must step aside and are well past their use-by date.

Since when does being spun 360 degrees equal a "reasonable time"?
Some players are spun the full circle in the blink of an eye, other players are spun 360 degrees at a snail's pace.
Each case must treated on it's own merit.

The greatest folly of the current day umpires is the way they try to compartmentalize every aspect of their decision making, rather than keep an open mind of the play as it unfolds and see everything which occurs. This is why they make so many errors.

eg. many umpires only award a free kick to the full forward for "holding the man" if the full back grabs a fistful of their opponent's jumper. A defender can wrap his arms around the forward and get away with it, or more recently, they can hold the arm of their opponent, but not be penalised. The umpires are only looking for the jumper holds!

eg. Does anybody remember hearing the umpires back when they were first miked up, attempt to justify their "push in the back" decisions?
They used to carry on with all this twaddle about how "the arms were /or weren't extended" as if that was the only way you could push your opponent in the back. You could almost hear the umpires echo Jeff Gieschen's "In The back" 101 tutorial from the previous Wednesday. They are like trained monkeys some of them, doing the bidding for their masters, rather than thinking for themselves.

eg. this is why umpires pay so many "holding the ball" decisions against the poor bastards who have tried to knock the ball out.
The umpires seem blind to fact that the tackler pushed the ball back under the player who was in possession. Perhaps they need to be instructed about this from Deller and Giesch, seeing as the poor umps can no longer think or see for themselves.

Back to "holding the ball". If a player gets his arms free and he is looking to handball and create play, then why should the tackler be rewarded for his feeble tackle? The reason behind the "holding the ball" rule is to penalise the player in possession for bogging the game down and causing a halt in play. When Franklin takes on his opponent, is tackled, but gets his arms clear and looks to handball, then he is still trying to create play. He should not be penalised for holding the ball until the tackle is effected and actually prevents him from doing so. We've gone overboard. It's a joke. Gieschen does not have the authority to make up rules like "360 degrees". He is there to instruct the umpires on the exisiting rules and interpretations.
 
Re: Not happy Jan

This thread was titled "Anti-Franklin umpiring..." as a joke. It was not about Lance Franklin. Thank you moderators for adding 2 pages of another thread that was about Lance Franklin to my thread, awesome.:thumbsu:

Fair enough.

Your original post was highlighting the funny situation where Franklin had a shot at goal and the umpire screamed, "DON'T GO IN!" right as he kicked it. A coincidental, yet humourous chain of events.

You would think that people would read your actual post and watch the YouTube clip, rather than simply react to your original thread title.

But then you would be wrong. This is Big Footy :D
 
Franklin gets a lot of his marks/goals from taking the back spot in a contest and holding his opponent out then either marking or running on to the loose ball as it spills over the back. To be fair most of the time he does this with good body work but every now and then the hands go up. The umpires have woken up to this and he gets pinged for it. The two I saw on the weekend were clear cut.


Agree whole heartedly but the issue I have is the ones he doesn't get when he is being mauled by two or three players..Consistency is needed and it's not happening.
 
Agree whole heartedly but the issue I have is the ones he doesn't get when he is being mauled by two or three players..Consistency is needed and it's not happening.

Sadly, he and you will just have to get used to it. It seems to be consistent through most of the major forwards over the years. Franklin, Lloyd, Fev, and others do not get the same treatment as other players on the ground.
It has to pretty blatant for them to recieve frees.
 
Sadly, he and you will just have to get used to it. It seems to be consistent through most of the major forwards over the years. Franklin, Lloyd, Fev, and others do not get the same treatment as other players on the ground.
It has to pretty blatant for them to recieve frees.

Franklin pushes in the back more than other forwards, but gets pushed in the back roughly the same amount.
 

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