Are people overrating this current English attack

[Ice goddess]

First David Saker, now Jason Gillespie are saying it equals our great attack of the nineties and nougties.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/test-matches/jason-gillespie-says-england-attack-861464


England’s bowling attack is just as good as Australia’s all-conquering side, says one of their own pace legends.

 

[Tassieboy]

Yeah, I think they're getting a bit ahead of themselves. They were rather insipid in the UAE. Then again Australia's was more so in Kolkata and Mumbai in 2001. I didn't see too much of the first two Tests but it appears Swan's regained some form.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

They are feasting on some pretty brittle line ups who are losing their techniques to the huge onset of T20 franchise cricket.

Nowhere near as good as our old attacks.

 

[Phone]

They were rather insipid in the UAE.

Nah not really. All the bowlers averaged below 30, Pakistan didn't get 400 in one innings. They were really pretty awesome given the lack of batting support

 

[Tassieboy]

Maybe. But in the conditions I didn't think they were too special. Not the usual subcontinent first innings batting conditions

 

[djrossie16]

England as a world no 1 team are overrated. But it is the batting side of things which has let them down more of late.

 

[Miqar_Baqfhied]

GROSSLY over rated.

The same article on ESPN Cricinfo they had their stats comparing the attack to McGrath, Warne and co and it was like comparing a ferrari to a datsun.

And as someone else has said - England as world number one is terrifically over rated. They lost to Pakistan 3-0 not to long ago!!! And struglled in Sri Lanka. Wow they beat the West Indies.....

I hope Dale Steyn and the Saffas make them offended so much.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I hope Dale Steyn and the Saffas make them offended so much.

I think they will. Steyn, Morkel and Philander is the best pace bowling attack in the world by an absolute mile.

I do, however, think the England batting line-up is more capable of combating it than the South Africans are at combating Anderson and co.

I guess time will tell.

 

[F1_mania]

Better than the Australian bowling line up of the late 90's and early 00's? No. The best bowling attack in the world at the moment, I think it probably is.

Huge amount of balance in the attack. Anderson is probably the best new ball bowler in the world at the moment. While I was questioning Broads form all over a year ago he hit his stride when India came and he began to pitch it up. Bresnan also has enormous wicket taking potential, and is a handy batsman to boot, though that isn't really part of the consideration. Swann too, while he hasn't been on song for about 18 odd months now still takes wickets for low scores, and walks through left handers without any bother. South Africa have a cracking pace line-up, but remove Dale and Styne and you don't have much left. I think Philander would struggle without the support he's currently getting. Remove Anderson and Broad and you can Bring in Finn, Onions, Tremlett, all of home are world class bowlers in their own right. I don't really think the loss in UAE says anything about the bowling attack. On a pitch which offered no assistance to the seamers, Anderson and Co. still dominated, and had their batting not gone **** up, the bowling was more than enough to wrap up that series pretty easily. The bowlers had them chasing 140 odd most of the time.

As far as the series against South Africa is concerned, this current England side is perfectly suited to English conditions. The bowlers are all swing bowlers, and can swing the ball a long way, and all the batsmen can play these conditions perfectly. Yes, South Africa are coming over with a potent bowling attack, but is it an attack that will benefit from the conditions as much as England will? I doubt it. The English batsmen are probably in a better position to stand up to Styne etc than the Saffas against this English pace attack. Maybe in South Africa this would be a different story, but I can't see it going any other way than Englands in the up coming series.

As for justifying Englands position as world number 1. They hammered an, albeit poor, Australian side, would have dominated Sri Lanka had it not been for rain, romped through the Indians. Yes, they struggled on the sub continent, but I know of very few non subcontinental teams that don't struggle there. In pitches we're going to get in England, Australia and South Africa that batting line-up is in a league of it's own right now, with Strauss being on song, Cook at 26 is approaching the most test centuries for England and Trott being able to bat for days. KP being able to hit big scores, Bell can hit big scores and Prior is a fantastic wicket keeping batsman. They lack a number 6 at the moment, which would completely solidify their batting, but with the likes of Johnny Bairstow and James Taylor being young and developing, a fill in will arrive sooner rather than later. Add in that Bresnan has what are an all rounders averages, a Broad who's hit 150 and can hit runs, Swann who is also capable of hitting a 50 and you've got a batting line-up with 1 tail ender in it. If the balls not spinning, they're not struggling, and I can't see anybody other than teams on the subcontinent doing all too much damage to their current test rankings, the team as a whole is simply too good.

 

[The Speaker]

The English attack is a good one, without straying too far from the norm for a stereotypically English attack.

Their greatest feature is that they are an excellent unit. They probably have a similar floor talent wise to our turn-of-the-century attack, but the ceiling is lower.

 

[morri]

I wouldnt say it is better than the aussie attack at the turn of the century, but I think they are quite good. Not brilliant but good.

 

[Miqar_Baqfhied]

Stong argument F1 Mania

 

[Dipper]

This England attack is better than the some of its parts, there isn't one 'great' bowler in that team, although Swann will go down as one of England's best ever spinners.

Obviously not as good as that Aussie attack and I cringed when I read the comments, I don't think any English person would have come out with them.

They seem to be able to take wickets in all conditions, Anderson and Broad did sterling work in UAE in unhelpful conditions.

Overall a combination of keeping it tight and getting swing when available is what they do, they lack some real searing pace but we'll see how Finn goes in this Test.

I guess overall the England attack pips SA due to Swann, a direct comparison between the 3 quicks I'm not sure who comes out on top.

I agree with the previous comment about England's batting being overrated, they all love batting in England and they can feast on a weak attack but they haven't proved they can make the runs in more demanding circumstances.

 

[Miqar_Baqfhied]

This England attack is better than the some of its parts, there isn't one 'great' bowler in that team, although Swann will go down as one of England's best ever spinners.

Obviously not as good as that Aussie attack and I cringed when I read the comments, I don't think any English person would have come out with them.

They seem to be able to take wickets in all conditions, Anderson and Broad did sterling work in UAE in unhelpful conditions.

Overall a combination of keeping it tight and getting swing when available is what they do, they lack some real searing pace but we'll see how Finn goes in this Test.

I guess overall the England attack pips SA due to Swann, a direct comparison between the 3 quicks I'm not sure who comes out on top.

I agree with the previous comment about England's batting being overrated, they all love batting in England and they can feast on a weak attack but they haven't proved they can make the runs in more demanding circumstances.

Personally I think Anderson is the strike bowler of the attack - not Swann. Anderson has bowled some unplayable spells recently. He is one of the few genuine quality swing bowlers around in world cricket and does the damage at the top of the order and puts the pressure on. Remember the first spell in Sydney against the Aussies last year? Amazeballs.

And Finn is not quick. Ratpace at best. Tremlett is easily the quickest, but hes injured.

The depth of Englands bowling attack is impressive.

Steyn, Morkel, Philander versus Anderson, Broad, Bresnan.

The Saffas have an attack made for bouncy conditions while the Poms have an attack for swinging conditions. Put them on nuetral ground astro-turf down the local park my pants would probably be a little more dirtier facing the Saffas so would have to go with them I reckon.

The Saffas have an amazing batting line up. Amla, Kallis and de Villiers - they can perform anywhere. Mention the word 'sub-continent' to any Pom and the only runs theyll get would be dripping down their legs

 

[imadodgyumpire]

For whatever weaknesses they may have, I do sense a little offended, that England is the best team atm.

 

[Ill Chicken]

The analysis of the England versus Australia attack is flawed as they're comparing overall stats rather than the stats of them together. The a fair example would be to examine the matches the two have played together;

Warne & McGrath; http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=2;template=results;type=bowling

Anderson & Swann; http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...nvolve_type=all;template=results;type=bowling

Obviously Warne & McGrath played together more than that and I don't see why Anderson and Swann couldn't get near the same mark.

I'd rather watch Jimmy Anderson bowl than anyone else because he is that good at the moment, if you watched any of the stuff he was sending down to the Windies, South Africa bowlers will have to do a lot to keep them in the game.

 

[Cooldude]

Relative to English history, you'd say Anderson and Swann are probably greats already. Certainly think Swann is one of the all time great offies

Then they have mountains of depth in their fast bowling stocks below Anderson who are different bowlers but all effective and consistent at what they do

It isn't anything like the Aus attack of 90s to 00s, but compare to the shit served up the past 5 years by some Test teams, it's certainly the best and most well rounded attack for a long time

They would be so much better if their batting is anything near as good

 

[Dipper]

Personally I think Anderson is the strike bowler of the attack - not Swann. Anderson has bowled some unplayable spells recently. He is one of the few genuine quality swing bowlers around in world cricket and does the damage at the top of the order and puts the pressure on. Remember the first spell in Sydney against the Aussies last year? Amazeballs.

No doubt he is, although Broad runs him close over the last year, but overall when you judge their Test careers Swann has to be rated higher, Anderson has an average of about 30.

And Finn is not quick. Ratpace at best. Tremlett is easily the quickest, but hes injured.

With all due respect mate you're wrong, I don't know when you last saw Finn bowl but he's found extra pace since he was in Australia and now gets it up to around 93mph, whilst Tremlett is more high 80s.

In fact Broad is capable of bowling quicker than Tremlett.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I'd rather watch Jimmy Anderson bowl than anyone else because he is that good at the moment, if you watched any of the stuff he was sending down to the Windies, South Africa bowlers will have to do a lot to keep them in the game.

I really like watching Jimmy bowl as well, but I always have when he bowls in England, his style is deceptively smooth. He's my favourite paceman to watch after Steyn in international cricket. None of the Aussie bowlers float my boat as a spectacle.

 

[Miqar_Baqfhied]

No doubt he is, although Broad runs him close over the last year, but overall when you judge their Test careers Swann has to be rated higher, Anderson has an average of about 30.


With all due respect mate you're wrong, I don't know when you last saw Finn bowl but he's found extra pace since he was in Australia and now gets it up to around 93mph, whilst Tremlett is more high 80s.

In fact Broad is capable of bowling quicker than Tremlett.

Furry muff re: Finn being quick - I havent seen him since Australia and he looked pretty poo.

In regards to Anderson and Swann's stats, Anderson took a damn long time settling into test cricket. It would be interesting to see his stats over the last three years or so since hes learned how to swing the ball. I remember his second tour of Aus he got belted. (First tour I think he did his knee at the Gabba first day).

Broad and Anderson's actions are pretty rough and strenuous - cant see them standing the test of time like McGrath.

Australias current depth in their bowling would rival that of Englands I think now. As would the Saffas.

England depths looked shaky against the West Indies #11 over the weekend....was better than pr0n watching that. And to add that if Swanna gets injured or they get a turner their nek minnit spinner in line is Monty...our boys would drool.

Aussies:
Siddle
Lyon
Hilfy
Pattinson
Harris
Beer
Cummins
Johnson
McKay
Starc
Lee (ODI only)
Doherty

Poms:
Anderson
Swann
Broad
Finn
Onions
Tremlett
Bresden
Monty

Saffas:
Steyn
Philander
Morkel
Tsotsobe
Tahir
Harris
Parnell
de Lange
Langveedlt (not sure if around anymore)

 

[Dipper]

That was Simon Jones who did his knee on the first day at GABBA, he never fully recovered unfortunately.

As for Anderson he always knew how to swing the ball although Cooley made him change his action and that stymied him for about 2-3 years(lost his swing), he actually went back to his old action and turned things around.His problem was that he was pretty ineffective when the ball wasn't swigning but he's remedied that now as he's a lot more accurate.

As for Monty I'd have thought he's a pretty good spinner to have in reserve when compared with most countries, bowled very well in UAE in his first Tests back for a couple of years.Certainly a level above Beer and Doherty.

Agreed that the England pace back up isn't quite what has been made out, Onions isn't anything special IMO and Finn despite a good Test record and his height/pace/bounce doesn't entirely convince me.

Shame that Tremlett is injured really.

As for Australia's bowling depth rivalling England's, for sure it seems like there are some decent young prospects in there I suppose the difference is that it's more about potential as many of them have only played a few tests whereas the England depth have all played a reasonable number of tests with wickets in the bank.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Good post, Dipper. Almost exactly what I would have written pretty much overall. Anderson has improved his accuracy when conditions aren't in his favour a lot.

And Monty is a very good second string spin bowler. He outbowled Swann in the UAE.

 

[porpoise40]

Tino Best doesn't rate England's bowling attack (admittedly missing Anderson)

 

[F1_mania]

To be fair, losing your two main seamers from one test to the next is to big a blow for any bowling attack, never mind when your number 3/4 seamer (Tremlett) is also out.

Not convinced by Onions. Still reckon Finn is a fantastic strike bowler, though not a front line bowler at the moment, meaning he'll need some support at the other end, something he wasn't getting without Anderson and Broad. Onions back in an England team though? Reckon we'll need a few injuries to see that happen.

 

[Miqar_Baqfhied]

To be fair, losing your two main seamers from one test to the next is to big a blow for any bowling attack, never mind when your number 3/4 seamer (Tremlett) is also out.

Not convinced by Onions. Still reckon Finn is a fantastic strike bowler, though not a front line bowler at the moment, meaning he'll need some support at the other end, something he wasn't getting without Anderson and Broad. Onions back in an England team though? Reckon we'll need a few injuries to see that happen.

Just out of curiosity - what happened to Hoggard?