Are we really that bad?

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Soldo went at 42% hit-outs to advantage in his first game back against one the top-3 rucks in the league (can make a good case for him being #1). Not only were they to advantage, they almost all put the player into space or gave them reasonable time to dispose. It's an elite skill and it makes us a better side, especially late in matches when centre clearances become do or die.

Nank is running at 27% hit-outs to advantage and that includes a game against De Koning and half a game against McStay. Many of those hit-outs to advantage were an 'advantage' in name only because they did the exact opposite of put a player in space. Then there's all the times the ball ends up down the throat or close enough to the most dangerous opposition mid.

Nank has his own value outside hit-outs, he's an elite asset at his best and he'll forever be a legend of the club, but at his worst when he's struggling with his body or having a shocker, as a pure #1 ruckman, there's no way to sugarcoat it, he loses us games single-handedly, or at the very least makes it far harder to win. At his worst he gives us virtually zero good first use and a stack to the opposition right there in the centre square - the most difficult part of the ground to defend.

Throw a fit Soldo instead of Miller, or Nank (or both for that matter) into that Brisbane final, we win comfortably and may well have gone all the way.

And Nank has been doing that since day 1 which got us 3 flags.
Soldo sadly for him is not the same since his knee.
He is a liability outside the centre sq.

 

[Tiges1229]

We've been Jekyll and Hyde all season except the Gold Coast game which was all Jekyll

It won't get much better until we get some quality players back from injury.

The injury list before round one was concerning and it's only grown since then. I'd start asking questions of our fitness and conditioning team first and foremost.

If we had a healthy list, I doubt we'd be top of the table but we'd be in the 8 or close to it.

Yes it’s finally catching on the Jekkyl and Hyde

 

[Rayzorwire]

He is a liability outside the centre sq.

The same bloke who took more marks inside-50 than anyone else we had, from very limited time forward and barely over half a game on the ground? When he wasn't on his way to becoming the 9th highest contested possession winner on the ground, again, in barely over half a game?

There's no shortage of sides around who wish they had liabilities like that to overcome.

He's not pretty, but he's pretty effective.

 

[partycorolla]

I think our set up is horrendous at the moment and our handball happy ball movement is shite.

We have also lost a lot of athleticism. While we’ve bought in better skilled (not that at it shows at the moment ) footballers but have lost a lot of the elite athletes that we had.


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In reality though, from last year which elite athletes have have we lost? Lambert and Edwards were cooked athletically last year...

We've missed Graham for a few games who can run up and down all game but we've gained an aerobic beast in Taranto.

We won flags partly through ridiculous forward handball metres gained... the handball itself isn't the issue, it's the fact they are now high loopy handballs to guys standing still at times that is the issue... which in turn makes us look slow.

 

[Bojangles17]

What we’re seeing on the ground now is tripe and genuine bottom 3-4 stuff , about the only positive are that teams aren’t kicking cricket scores against us. It’s not easy to get a genuine gauge on us coz we have 13 players unavailable, still lesser ranked clubs than us coming into this year , eg saints and ess have risen over same challenges with some of their best players sidelined
if dimma could get us back on the rails playing contender type footy winning some big games , it would be as good a coaching performance I’ve seen ,,,,over to you dimma

 

[domin8]

Some quality over reactions here.
Things are never as bad as they seem. Some of our footy has been as good as anyone has shown this year. Stringing 6-8 goals back to back in a Qtr against quality opposition. Proves we aren’t as far away as the chicken littles suggest.
The injuries have hurt as we’ve had to play immature bodies against battle hardened players at times and mostly in the wet. You just can’t cover for the quality we have on the sidelines. Not one side on this comp can.
The key is for us to string a 4 Qtr game together, get some players back and the wheel will turn and pretty quick. It’s really not as bad as it looks

 

[Bojangles17]

I think quite simply we are trying to evolve our game plan as the rules don’t support the old one and we ain’t got the assets to execute it anything better than an average level so we are where we are

 

[Defibrillate]

The game on Sunday was probably the worst performance I’ve seen us play live since 2016. In a sterile stadium with a poor crowd it looked so spiritless and uninspired. I suspect we’ve become (appropriately) drunk on success - but at the moment we really are a team that is simply not performing. Injuries a big factor, age is too - we look slow with ball rebounding out of our 50 way too easily - and some of our youngsters haven’t come along as well as we’d hoped.

I’m a glass 3/4 full kind of person, and remember historically when we were really sh*t and the only reason you’d enjoy going to games was watching Richo or a young player develop. I’ve sort of reset a bit (and we’re nowhere near as rubbish as those dark 90s/00s days), but I would like some of the kids to get a decent run at selection and try to settle in. It’s been very chaotic selection wise. We’re going to struggle to make finals, so I see this as an opportunity to see where our list is really at. As I said Sunday - Cotch to 300 is a very difficult decision - and I’m honestly not fussed either way - but this is an opportunity to just back and repeatedly play some youngsters to gauge where we are - and actually enjoy finding a gem if they shine.

 

[tony__montana]

Sunday was as bad as we've played this season. On exposed form the ladder position is an accurate reflection of how we've performed, but I think we're capable of so much better. Its not all doom and gloom moving fwd, but gee wiz we've got to start performing

 

[Timothy Luncheon]

It’s just so frustrating because we see how good we can play and that we have a talented list, but then basic skills that they used to be good at are gone so far this year. I don’t understand how those fundamentals can go so wrong, and it’s frustrating because it seems so simple to fix and yet it is ruining our season. A season of what ifs is what it looks like. Those types of seasons kill me. Got 3 flags though which is pretty rare

Lot of good points in there.

Agree that it's really just a case of players not executing anywhere near as well as they can - this week we managed to include set shot goal kicking on heavy rotation too!

We know how dangerous and potent virtually the exact same list minus Dusty, Taranto and Hopper and the subsequent improvement of kids was come the end of last year - we blew a golden chance for a Prelim at the very least. We've gained, not lost, we're just not getting the results yet.

Our game plan stacks up fine, everyone's copying it. Hardwick hasn't forgotten how to coach, the players haven't forgotten how to play, we're just executing poorly too often to win.

Babies and bathwater were getting thrown out of windows with most of the same questions and apparently unresolvable issues this time last year, then we played finals. Again.

rustarti

 

[Bojangles17]

The game on Sunday was probably the worst performance I’ve seen us play live since 2016. In a sterile stadium with a poor crowd it looked so spiritless and uninspired. I suspect we’ve become (appropriately) drunk on success - but at the moment we really are a team that is simply not performing. Injuries a big factor, age is too - we look slow with ball rebounding out of our 50 way too easily - and some of our youngsters haven’t come along as well as we’d hoped.

I’m a glass 3/4 full kind of person, and remember historically when we were really sh*t and the only reason you’d enjoy going to games was watching Richo or a young player develop. I’ve sort of reset a bit (and we’re nowhere near as rubbish as those dark 90s/00s days), but I would like some of the kids to get a decent run at selection and try to settle in. It’s been very chaotic selection wise. We’re going to struggle to make finals, so I see this as an opportunity to see where our list is really at. As I said Sunday - Cotch to 300 is a very difficult decision - and I’m honestly not fussed either way - but this is an opportunity to just back and repeatedly play some youngsters to gauge where we are - and actually enjoy finding a gem if they shine.

I’m pretty realistic with where we re at but with miller out last week who’s dead set torched us I expected we’d win , was a bloody dreadful performance and apart from a burst for 15min start of 4q , was nowhere near the intensity required to win a game , the team needs to respond to that embarrassment of a showing

 

[Bojangles17]

Sunday was as bad as we've played this season. On exposed form the ladder position is an accurate reflection of how we've performed, but I think we're capable of so much better. Its not all doom and gloom moving fwd, but gee wiz we've got to start performing

A few players returning to the side will help with structure , looks like gibbo could play a bit of VFL next week

 

[Bojangles17]

Sunday was as bad as we've played this season. On exposed form the ladder position is an accurate reflection of how we've performed, but I think we're capable of so much better. Its not all doom and gloom moving fwd, but gee wiz we've got to start performing

The only positive and its a genuine one is that we’ve stayed in games , so our defensive structure is sound , it’s our offensive side that is diabolical
I think we have tried to refine our entries how ever our assets are a hangover from the chaos days and they are incapable of crisp entries capitalising on stand
That’s why I’ve banged on to move on from macca and Pickett they are yesterdays defensive wingers, top sides have offensive wingers putting the ball on a dime which you can with stand rule ,, except us

 

[TigerImposter]

The only positive and its a genuine one is that we’ve stayed in games , so our defensive structure is sound , it’s our offensive side that is diabolical
I think we have tried to refine our entries how ever our assets are a hangover from the chaos days and they are incapable of crisp entries capitalising on stand
That’s why I’ve banged on to move on from macca and Pickett they are yesterdays defensive wingers, top sides have offensive wingers putting the ball on a dime which you can with stand rule ,, except us

Our backline has been woeful. Too slow moving the ball out and chipping it around causing opposition players to flood up bye ground. Then poor turnovers with simple disposal areas costing us easy goals. First signs of a poorly disciplined and coached side is when three defenders go for the the ball and two opposition players are resting on the ground and can raffle the goal for a joe the goose. It’s happened in three games this year and it’s going back to our late 80.s to 2010 days. It’s the signs of a struggling BL and a poor side.

 

[domin8]

Our backline has been woeful. Too slow moving the ball out and chipping it around causing opposition players to flood up bye ground. Then poor turnovers with simple disposal areas costing us easy goals. First signs of a poorly disciplined and coached side is when three defenders go for the the ball and two opposition players are resting on the ground and can raffle the goal for a joe the goose. It’s happened in three games this year and it’s going back to our late 80.s to 2010 days. It’s the signs of a struggling BL and a poor side.

Out of interest how is that coaching? Not having a crack just asking. Players aren’t coached to fly 3 up. They’re taught to engage their opponent then attack the footy. Most of this comes second nature from being career backman.
It’s also a trust and awareness thing that comes with a backline that has played a lot of footy together and has learnt the intricacies of each others game. Again that’s not coaching.
Ask yourself what made Astbury Grimes Balta broad Vlaustin and Rance so good. I’d say games together and an understanding of where each other is and what they’re going or likely to be doing. Again you can’t really coach that.
Not having Broad and introducing Young has hurt in this case.
If they’ve been told to leave their man and fly for every ball ( highly unlikely) then it’s hard to say our back line mistakes are coaching.
Looks more to me players down on confidence which comes with what’s been heaped on them. Easily remedied. Broad back helps. Young out (who has been alright) Tarrant and Gibcus playing VFL next week the backline will improve

 

[Bojangles17]

Our backline has been woeful. Too slow moving the ball out and chipping it around causing opposition players to flood up bye ground. Then poor turnovers with simple disposal areas costing us easy goals. First signs of a poorly disciplined and coached side is when three defenders go for the the ball and two opposition players are resting on the ground and can raffle the goal for a joe the goose. It’s happened in three games this year and it’s going back to our late 80.s to 2010 days. It’s the signs of a struggling BL and a poor side.

We haven’t been scored heavily against and the margins have been. Relatively narrow , tells me that defensive structures are standing up , you’re actually referring to offensive part of the game that I commented was very poor
first sign if a poorly coached team are blow outs every week and b never being in the game , there hasn’t been a round this year that was the case

 

[TigerImposter]

Out of interest how is that coaching? Not having a crack just asking. Players aren’t coached to fly 3 up. They’re taught to engage their opponent then attack the footy. Most of this comes second nature from being career backman.
It’s also a trust and awareness thing that comes with a backline that has played a lot of footy together and has learnt the intricacies of each others game. Again that’s not coaching.
Ask yourself what made Astbury Grimes Balta broad Vlaustin and Rance so good. I’d say games together and an understanding of where each other is and what they’re going or likely to be doing. Again you can’t really coach that.
Not having Broad and introducing Young has hurt in this case.
If they’ve been told to leave their man and fly for every ball ( highly unlikely) then it’s hard to say our back line mistakes are coaching.
Looks more to me players down on confidence which comes with what’s been heaped on them. Easily remedied. Broad back helps. Young out (who has been alright) Tarrant and Gibcus playing VFL next week the backline will improve

It’s poor coaching bc it’s happened repeatedly. Leaving unmarked forwards when too many going up when one defender is all that is needed is ball watching. It has also interfered with the defender who is in the best position. Bad coaching is also the game plan of 2016 it’s chipping it around in the BL taking too long to move the ball along.player confidence and age is an issue with inexperienced players and too many blokes at careers ends. Game plan is horrible though.

 

[TigerImposter]

We haven’t been scored heavily against and the margins have been. Relatively narrow , tells me that defensive structures are standing up , you’re actually referring to offensive part of the game that I commented was very poor
first sign if a poorly coached team are blow outs every week and b never being in the game , there hasn’t been a round this year that was the case

We,ve still allowed easy goals from poor defensive errors and in close games they’re critical.

 

[domin8]

It’s poor coaching bc it’s happened repeatedly. Leaving unmarked forwards when too many going up when one defender is all that is needed is ball watching. It has also interfered with the defender who is in the best position. Bad coaching is also the game plan of 2016 it’s chipping it around in the BL taking too long to move the ball along.player confidence and age is an issue with inexperienced players and too many blokes at careers ends. Game plan is horrible though.

That’s not coached. You’re clutching at straws with the chipping around the backline. You’re basing that assumption on a couple of mistakes. We look as though we are taking the game on more via handball and that’s coming unstuck at times exposing the backline. I actually wish we’d handball less and control the ball by foot more. The coaching mistakes I can see is more so in our movement ( trying to go too fast by hands) as opposed to over committing in the backline

 

[TigerImposter]

That’s not coached. You’re clutching at straws with the chipping around the backline. You’re basing that assumption on a couple of mistakes. We look as though we are taking the game on more via handball and that’s coming unstuck at times exposing the backline. I actually wish we’d handball less and control the ball by foot more. The coaching mistakes I can see is more so in our movement ( trying to go too fast by hands) as opposed to over committing in the backline

It is bc the game plan is stagnant ball movement
Our first four goals o weekend three were from basic BL errors caused by chipping it around.

 

[domin8]

It is bc the game plan is stagnant ball movement

I actually think it’s the opposite. We are over handballing. Our handball to kick ratio is through the roof

 

[TigerImposter]

It is bc the game plan is stagnant ball movement
Our first four goals o weekend three were from basic BL errors caused by chipping it around.

That’s more I the guts not the BL.

 

[Groupie_]

we have a better list than the pies, dumma and his sacked coaches cant get results from them though

mcrae and leppa are getting results from an inferior list

 

[theouthouse]

It takes a while for new players to gel into the Richmond midfield it seems, Prestia took half a season to have any impact then came on ridiculously well.

Slow starts to the season aren't uncommon for you lot either.

See how you are travelling at the bye with Taranto and Hopper and would go from there before writing the team off.

 

[TigerImposter]

It takes a while for new players to gel into the Richmond midfield it seems, Prestia took half a season to have any impact then came on ridiculously well.

Slow starts to the season aren't uncommon for you lot either.

See how you are travelling at the bye with Taranto and Hopper and would go from there before writing the team off.

I think Taranto Hopper with Rioli and Baker have been our best all year. The rest need to lift their game . Them gelling isn’t the issue as they’ve slotted in nicely.
The reality is we can’t field a decent side due to injuries and seasoned campaigners are showing their age. Also fitness doesn’t look good with the way we’ve run out games as well as replacement kids are not up to the level. I think Dimma has modified the game plan to try and cater for all these deficiencies and it’s not entirely his fault bc the footy Gods have bitten us on the tail with so many injuries and old players down in form.