ASADA defied as banned dog at work. 2/3: Prismall no longer working for Dogs

[peppy la pew]

Doesn't matter, because we don't barrack for Essendon , therefore we don't care, although we care enough to stop blokes from working, attending wakes and taking their kids to Auskick.

That is what we stand for on the HTB.

Thats The Life Of A Drug Cheat

 

[crowsup]

IMO in the future, the Essendon players will find themselves in the same boat, you can also guarantee that many hysterical posters that have been on the HTB the last 4 years will all slink off back to their hovels with not a word said.

You are deluded. The 34 cannot ever be proven innocent because they DON'T FU....G KNOW what they took. Until they can come up with a list and purchase orders of all the (injected vitamins) they took, everybody will know that they cheated. See, the fact that they were proven cheats without a positive sample, makes it hard for them to prove that the samples were altered during transport.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Thats The Life Of A Drug Cheat

Think garlic breath forgets that's the conditions the players agreed to before they undertook there PED experiment

 

[sameolds33]

I think that article proves my point - athletics is not clean and two or 4 year bans are not effective in deterring doping. Zero tolerance doesn't work.

 

[Garlic muncher]

You are deluded. The 34 cannot ever be proven innocent because they DON'T FU....G KNOW what they took. Until they can come up with a list and purchase orders of all the (injected vitamins) they took, everybody will know that they cheated. See, the fact that they were proven cheats without a positive sample, makes it hard for them to prove that the samples were altered during transport.

LOL, that reminds me about witches floating and sinking ....

Oh and this one -
67.
Why did McDevitt claim the players were guilty after he stated publically that no one would ever know what the players were administered.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Now I get it, you support drugs in sport.
Look at NFL, we don't want to go down that path.
The basballers of the eighties were built bigger than weight lifters.
The health of the sportsmen suffer but this is not a concern to you.

 

[sameolds33]

After all you are only here for the amusement, Right ?

that's right. just having a bit of a laugh.

 

[Slartibartfast]

LOL, that reminds me about witches floating and sinking ....

Oh and this one -
67.
Why did McDevitt claim the players were guilty after he stated publically that no one would ever know what the players were administered.

Because EFC deceitfully destroyed all records.

 

[peppy la pew]

that's right. just having a bit of a laugh.

Well you have certainly generated a few laughs today

 

[Ancient Tiger]

That's a bit harsh.

Reality hurts.
Ask those 34 players.

 

[Muggs]

My point is the lengths that athletes have to go to, at great expense and hardship, to prove innocence in a strict liability, zero tolerance scheme. The WADA code is designed to catch drug cheats but last year 4/8 runners in the 100m mens final at the world championships had served bans (some had had sentences reduced by CAS) and were back competing at an elite level. So, clearly deterred...

Richard Ings wrote last week about the cyclist Bobby Dea who had his ban reduced to 6 months by CAS enabling him to compete in Rio.
"CAS reducing ban of US cyclist Bobby Lea from 16m to 6m offers a chance at RIO. Dream team of @athleteslawyer @MSL_Mike Advocacy matters" (25 Feb) as if that was a good thing - athlete pleads guilty, says sorry, gets reduction, competes in said sport. There's little contrition in Lea's own account (http://www.bobbylea.us/blog/) just sheer relief that he still gets to compete in his chosen sport.

The way the scheme works there's no incentive for dopers not to dope - they just need to time their doping and plan accordingly. On the other hand, innocent athletes (and I would include Saad and the Collingwood boys in this too), might test positive - or be penalised on the comfortable satisfaction test, as in our case - and they've got very little room for arguing innocence in the WADA/CAS system. They're collateral damage in the greater aim of getting rid of drugs in sport. Which in my view is not working because it isn't fair.

In all sports but particularly high doping sports such as athletics and cycling, i think you've got to get athletes to respect the system if you want to have them conform and for that to work the scheme has to be fair and transparent. Athletes have to feel they're getting a fair go. The overwhelming impression I get is that the current system isn't working, vis Russia, Ethiopia, because it isn't fair. Zero tolerance programs rarely, if ever, work anywhere.

Just what is you point?

She did not apply for a reduction in her ban, all she really asked was for criminal prosecutors to prove she had intent, they could not. She proved nothing, she certainly did not prove she was innocent of doping nor did she try to.

SAAD twice argued for mitigating circumstances, original hearing and when ASADA appealed. The Collingwood boys did not even try arguing for a reduction, while they had no intent,,they accepted they were at fault.

The Bobby Lea example is a good example of why you need decent defence team at CAS who have understanding of the issues and actually lodge an argument for a reduction and not go we agree with the AFL..

WADA is having a look at those countries and others.

As for no deterrence.. part of the reason for increased bans this year..

 

[sameolds33]

Now I get it, you support drugs in sport.
Look at NFL, we don't want to go down that path.
The basballers of the eighties were built bigger than weight lifters.
The health of the sportsmen suffer but this is not a concern to you.

No, I'd much prefer to see clean sport but am a realist that the stakes are too high in many sports - not in AFL but in cycling, athletics, NFL, US baseball etc. Drugs aren't going away in these sports.

I think that the AFL was right to stamp on the phy-eders in the AFL - just don't agree with the way it went about it. And I have a lot of sympathy for WADA and its national regulators who make do on small budgets. I just don't think zero tolerance programs work - in any sphere - not just sport.

I do feel sorry for all athletes - both the clean ones and the ones who dope - because, to my mind, the dopers are the equivalent of drug mules in a bigger game where, to participate in their chosen sport, they feel pressured to dope. I'd rather see anti-doping agencies put pressure on governments and sponsors demanding results from sports which would lessen the pressure to dope. It's not an easy answer but I think respect for the system from athletes is the best way for them to recognise WADA's authority and, when you get results which aren't fair, that works against their aim.

 

[Chief]

Now I get it, you support drugs in sport.
Look at NFL, we don't want to go down that path.
The basballers of the eighties were built bigger than weight lifters.
The health of the sportsmen suffer but this is not a concern to you.

I read the East Germans are dropping like flies from cancer. But hey, no positive tests mean it never happened.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

LOL, that reminds me about witches floating and sinking ....

Oh and this one -
67.
Why did McDevitt claim the players were guilty after he stated publically that no one would ever know what the players were administered.

If you had any sort of analytical ability, you would realise that McDevitt said that after the AFL Tribunal had thrown out the case because of the fact they couldn't prove that the TB4 bought from China was TB4. As such, not knowing that an appeal from WADA was coming with new evidence, he stated what was then obvious. McDevitt knew what they took. He thought that it may never be proven though to a comfortable satisfaction. Thankfully WADA found new evidence that placed the TB4 in the hands of Dank, an employee of Essendon, and with no plausible alternative, well you know the rest.......

 

[sameolds33]

Just what is you point?

She did not apply for a reduction in her ban, all she really asked was for criminal prosecutors to prove she had intent, they could not. She proved nothing, she certainly did not prove she was innocent of doping nor did she try to.

SAAD twice argued for mitigating circumstances, original hearing and when ASADA appealed. The Collingwood boys did not even try arguing for a reduction, while they had no intent,,they accepted they were at fault.

The Bobby Lea example is a good example of why you need decent defence team at CAS who have understanding of the issues and actually lodge an argument for a reduction and not go we agree with the AFL..

WADA is having a look at those countries and others.

As for no deterrence.. part if the reason for increased bans this year..

I agree that under the current system all these athletes were found guilty. And I think it's wrong.

 

[Slartibartfast]

There has been nothing unfair about what happened at EFC.
They cheated and got caught.
NFL and baseball were like the AFL once.
Where there is money there will always be someone trying to gain an unfair advantage to get it.
That's how WADA came to be. There can be no honour system.

 

[1990crow]

I agree that under the current system all these athletes were found guilty. And I think it's wrong.

Oh well. Some could have been spared with records. Unfortunately for them, the EFC put their clubs on field potential above their needs and most likely destroyed records. Without them, CAS had no choice but to assume all took it. No one else to blame.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I read the East Germans are dropping like flies from cancer. But hey, no positive tests mean it never happened.

That is the exact point Chief.
The consequences health wise can be dramatic and we have no idea what will happen, Mannah???
Sport should be based on ones ability and not ones ability to get the best pills.
It is no joke that the EFC 34 should maintain regular checks form here on.
Christ, Dank may have been trying things which have not come out yet. If he is going to give warfarin to a rugby player and sreroids to a cancer survivor who knows what they have taken. This was his little personal trial which the EFC paid for but never asked what was in the vials.
I still think what would happen if charters had let it slip to one of his bikie contacts that EFC were on the gear.
With the betting in sport this leaves the competition so vulnerable. This is how it plays out.
People start of with good intentions then find themselves compromised.

 

[sameolds33]

There has been nothing unfair about what happened at EFC.
They cheated and got caught.
NFL and baseball were like the AFL once.
Where there is money there will always be someone trying to gain an unfair advantage to get it.
That's how WADA came to be. There can be no honour system.

If you were going to cheat wouldn't you do it with something better than tb4? Wouldn't you go with something that actually worked?! And wouldn't you be cleverer about it - making sure the word thymosin was nowhere near the consent forms? Wouldn't you make sure that you had comprehensive list of supplements (omitting the miracle drug of course) that the dr signed off on each week? wouldn't you get your stories straight?

If the 34 players were prepared to take that risk with tb4, they're dopes as well as dopers. Needless to say, I don't think they are either.

 

[Ceanag]

If the 34 players were prepared to take that risk with tb4, they're dopes as well as dopers.

That was all you needed to say.

 

[sameolds33]

That was all you needed to say.

but's it's not what I said is it? See how easy it is to manipulate words.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I am all ears if you can give me an insight to how it played out as everyone has been saying when I get a chance to tell my side of the story everyone will understand and we will be proved innocent. Waiting!!!
Did they dope well, Dont think so Seems like they got the formula wrong with all the soft tissue injuries.
The lack success while trying to cheat does diminish your guilt at all.
Lots of stupid criminals in prison.
EFC were stupid and continue to frustrate the football world with a lack of contrition.

 

[pablo668]

Are we really back to the 'the drugs they took weren't that bad' argument?
AKA 'Mickey Mouse Roids'?

 

[sameolds33]

I am all ears if you can give me an insight to how it played out as everyone has been saying when I get a chance to tell my side of the story everyone will understand and we will be proved innocent. Waiting!!!
Did they dope well, Dont think so Seems like they got the formula wrong with all the soft tissue injuries.
The lack success while trying to cheat does diminish your guilt at all.
Lots of stupid criminals in prison.
EFC were stupid and continue to frustrate the football world with a lack of contrition.

or maybe they're innocent...

 

[Ancient Tiger]

If you were going to cheat wouldn't you do it with something better than tb4? Wouldn't you go with something that actually worked?! And wouldn't you be cleverer about it - making sure the word thymosin was nowhere near the consent forms? Wouldn't you make sure that you had comprehensive list of supplements (omitting the miracle drug of course) that the dr signed off on each week? wouldn't you get your stories straight?

If the 34 players were prepared to take that risk with tb4, they're dopes as well as dopers. Needless to say, I don't think they are either.

Do you really believe that is all that Dank gave them?
Wow!
That is what ASADA thought they could get them with. In the CAS report itself there is a redacted bit about another drug that they were given. Read it.