Opinion Assorted Ramblings

[Le Grille]

So the 2022 season is almost upon us and that means 18 sets of fans start dreaming of the possibilities and (generally, well apart from one team) delusions of grandeur.

I wanted to get something off my chest as this is a spot where one can voice an opinion.

A creeping thought has entered my mind over the past few weeks that is NMFC are perennially going to be just making up the numbers. I do understand we are less than halfway through a list build but I’m having difficulty seeing us reaching the heights of a bulldogs or demons type renaissance.

What concerns me is that JHF, maybe TT and Powell aside I honestly can’t see a true potential a list league top 10 type, now it could be that we haven’t yet recruited drafted our elite guys but whilst we have many potentially good players there is still flaws in our next best group.

This season is a pretty big year for that next best group including Jy and LDU, these guys have been in the system for long enough and while they have elite games at times it’s hardly a week in week out thing that all the contenders have, if they are going to reach the elite level they probably have to do it soon or they mightn’t reach that level.

I mean we have been pretty nondescript for 22 years one top 4 finish in that time and even when there were the 2014 and 2015 finals runs happened personally I kind of deep down felt we weren’t winning a flag. Yeah we got hosed by the umps in Perth but I don’t think the hawks were losing that game.

I was quite bullish prior to the preseason matches but there seems to be some massive alarm bells.

Happy to be persuaded otherwise or agreed with. Genuinely interested to see others thoughts on this

 

[Scottroo]

If 3 of Thomas, Powell, JHF, LDU, Simpkin or Powell become top 20 we are set for a dynasty

My major concern is elite kicks coming out of the back half who also can create run and carry. We desperately need Perez to play 15+

 

[Le Grille]

If 3 of Thomas, Powell, JHF, LDU, Simpkin or Powell become top 20 we are set for a dynasty

My major concern is elite kicks coming out of the back half who also can create run and carry. We desperately need Perez to play 15+

Kind of my point I am concerned LDU, Simpkin might not and JHF is the most likely, I’m not sure that TT and Powell will be either but they could still improve.

Our disposal skills as a collective would be amongst the worst in the league

 

[Scottroo]

Yep, it’s very possible that Jy and LDU just end up being good solid players when we really need them to become elite. This year will tell us allot, I think Jy is almost there already, just needs to kick some goals.

If we are seriously competing in 2-3 years we need TT LDU stevo and I think Curtis Taylor

5

Curtis Taylor

Age

24

Ht

188cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

to take the next lever ASAP. I have every faith that JHF and Powell will become top 20 players. Phillips I’m not 100% sold on yet but give him time

 

[Swallow_Wood]

I would be preparing ourselves for a good 3-5 years in the bottom reaches of the comp but when things pop they can do so quickly. We still need to add real quality to the back half and real depth across the squad. Three more top 5 picks would be good in the long run and ensure that we are able to cover the misses that will inevitably come.

In three more years this core that we are building now will be from 27 to 21 years old, with some good kids beneath that group, and will have a nice level of experience. We will have been able to replace the aging players and refreshed the back line.

But it all comes down to recruitment and development. If we get it wrong then we will pay for it and most teams do get it wrong. Look at Carlton. Melbourne were on the bottom for years from 07 - 10 and played finals once in the following decade before it all came together last year.

 

[Le Grille]

My thoughts are if we can’t improve significantly from the bottom before 3-5 years we probably need to start again now.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

I think you're forgetting just how shit Richmond and Melbourne, even the likes of Brisbane and Port, were and bleak their prospects looked not that long ago.

I understand that it's tough to keep faith throughout rebuilds and have doubts, but you just have to stay the course and stay patient. Development takes time.

 

[Le Grille]

I think you're forgetting just how sh*t Richmond and Melbourne, even the likes of Brisbane and Port, were and bleak their prospects looked not that long ago.

I understand that it's tough to keep faith throughout rebuilds and have doubts, but you just have to stay the course and stay patient. Development takes time.

Oh I’m not going anywhere but am just having difficulty seeing a path to no. 5

 

[Ligma]

TLDR

 

[Scottroo]

Let’s not forget how one good draft can be the start of something special. Geelongs draft when they picked up Ablett and Bartel along with others set them up for years.

Port Adelaide draft where they picked up Butters, Rozee and Dursma turned them from bottom 4 to finals in a season.

Unfortunately I feel essendons 2020 draft crop will be the same

 

[Le Grille]

TLDR

 

[shinboner magic]

My only worry is how we are going to fit all these guns in the midfield

 

[The acurate one]

So the 2022 season is almost upon us and that means 18 sets of fans start dreaming of the possibilities and (generally, well apart from one team) delusions of grandeur.

I wanted to get something off my chest as this is a spot where one can voice an opinion.

A creeping thought has entered my mind over the past few weeks that is NMFC are perennially going to be just making up the numbers. I do understand we are less than halfway through a list build but I’m having difficulty seeing us reaching the heights of a bulldogs or demons type renaissance.

What concerns me is that JHF, maybe TT and Powell aside I honestly can’t see a true potential a list league top 10 type, now it could be that we haven’t yet recruited drafted our elite guys but whilst we have many potentially good players there is still flaws in our next best group.

This season is a pretty big year for that next best group including Jy and LDU, these guys have been in the system for long enough and while they have elite games at times it’s hardly a week in week out thing that all the contenders have, if they are going to reach the elite level they probably have to do it soon or they mightn’t reach that level.

I mean we have been pretty nondescript for 22 years one top 4 finish in that time and even when there were the 2014 and 2015 finals runs happened personally I kind of deep down felt we weren’t winning a flag. Yeah we got hosed by the umps in Perth but I don’t think the hawks were losing that game.

I was quite bullish prior to the preseason matches but there seems to be some massive alarm bells.

Happy to be persuaded otherwise or agreed with. Genuinely interested to see others thoughts on this

Oh we is shit of that you can sure. Very shit and I once fell for the hype. Aherns guts hanging over his shorts were just to make garner less embarrassed about his guts hanging over his shorts. They'd all come good and the early comparisons I stuck to.
Mahony is being compared to Bell, LDU = Dusty Xerri= Mumford, Turner= some back pocket lockdown genius. Mason Wood= Royce Hart.

I now have my own theory that you're shit until you show us you're not. A brave intercept mark or brutal tackle aren't much chop if they're isolated and you finish with 4 disposals.

these guys have something above the ordinary

JHF
LDU
TT
Bonar ( he can actually play an attacking lockdown role)
Larkey
Comben- ( comes down to injuries)
Perez ( see above)
Phillips
Powell
Zurhaar


Then

Stephenson
CCJ
Mahony
McKay
From there you get a bit more speculative so the jury is out. ie Edwards, Spicer and the rest of last years draft crop

I could comfortably run a line through the following with confidence they wouldn't get on another AFL list.

Turner
Walker
Polec
Scott
Young
Atu


So I've listed 15 names of players that could be very good, in saying that I believe it is two more seasons of pain. But we're on the right track.
Have faith.

 

[the flying ham]

Closer now than we have been for years. Lean year or two on the horizon followed by a sustained period of success. Whether we reach number 5 remains to be seen, but there is enough young talent there to develop and give us a good look at it for a few years

 

[RobZombie]

So the 2022 season is almost upon us and that means 18 sets of fans start dreaming of the possibilities and (generally, well apart from one team) delusions of grandeur.

I wanted to get something off my chest as this is a spot where one can voice an opinion.

A creeping thought has entered my mind over the past few weeks that is NMFC are perennially going to be just making up the numbers. I do understand we are less than halfway through a list build but I’m having difficulty seeing us reaching the heights of a bulldogs or demons type renaissance.

What concerns me is that JHF, maybe TT and Powell aside I honestly can’t see a true potential a list league top 10 type, now it could be that we haven’t yet recruited drafted our elite guys but whilst we have many potentially good players there is still flaws in our next best group.

This season is a pretty big year for that next best group including Jy and LDU, these guys have been in the system for long enough and while they have elite games at times it’s hardly a week in week out thing that all the contenders have, if they are going to reach the elite level they probably have to do it soon or they mightn’t reach that level.

I mean we have been pretty nondescript for 22 years one top 4 finish in that time and even when there were the 2014 and 2015 finals runs happened personally I kind of deep down felt we weren’t winning a flag. Yeah we got hosed by the umps in Perth but I don’t think the hawks were losing that game.

I was quite bullish prior to the preseason matches but there seems to be some massive alarm bells.

Happy to be persuaded otherwise or agreed with. Genuinely interested to see others thoughts on this

There have been essentially 3 eras since our last period of success:

* The "try desperately to top up a fading, ageing premiership list" era. Colbert, Hay, Thompson, the shit Rawlings, the shit Power, Calthorpe, etc. I reckon you'll see that with basically every club that went through a stretch of success with more than one flag: most recently, Hawfs are definitely guilty of it and Richmond are showing signs of it.

* The "oh shit we nearly went under" era. Don't underestimate how important it was, or at least must have seemed within the four walls, to prove our place in the league by being as competitive as possible. Also we still had some good players and at some point across 2013-2016 might have been good enough to nick one with the right sort of luck. The lack of ultimate success in this era is at least partly caused by the mistakes of the previous one.

* The "uh, oops, that didn't work out" era. The handful of years after 2016 are the only time I think there's a strong case that the club lacked direction in an important and meaningful way. They botched Boomer's exit, misread the 2018 dead cat bounce, and didn't embrace the shitness until a couple of years too late. COVID, the hub, and the Unfortunate Scamper Debacle[1] complicated things for sure. Since about the mid point of 2020, however, I suspect the club as a whole has been pretty realistic about where it's at.

In general, I think dismissing the club's record since 2000 as directionless mediocrity is deliberately missing a lot of context and nuance.

I haven't said much about my expectations for this season, but what I want to see is

• finishing comfortably off the bottom
• being genuinely in it against every team outside the 8
• pushing a few and beating a couple in the 8
• the midfield being measurably not shit. Half our starting midfield is going to be players well and truly off their L Plates.

Simpkin and LDU are better than you're giving them credit for. I reckon we've got about 5 guys with top 10 in the league potential (likely only a couple will get to that level, but how many teams, even great ones, are that stacked at the top end? Melbourne Gawn/Trac/Clarry, then it falls away a bit. Dogs Bont/Macrae and a lot of quality depth. Pies at their best - Pendles/Swan and then what? Hawks Mitchell/Hodge/Buddy and footsoldiers.) The mark of great sides is more likely to be how many top-100 players they have than how many top-10. And of course the old truism - great sides have great bottom 6's.

In short - this is the first time since the late 80's we've properly built from the ground up, and two preseason games without important players against top 8 sides is not cause for panic. Stop jumping at shadows and being such a misery guts.

[1] Would be a great name for a rock band, don't you think The Other Dean ?

 

[the flying ham]

Oh we is sh*t of that you can sure. Very sh*t and I once fell for the hype. Aherns guts hanging over his shorts were just to make garner less embarrassed about his guts hanging over his shorts. They'd all come good and the early comparisons I stuck to.
Mahony is being compared to Bell, LDU = Dusty Xerri= Mumford, Turner= some back pocket lockdown genius. Mason Wood= Royce Hart.

I now have my own theory that you're sh*t until you show us you're not. A brave intercept mark or brutal tackle aren't much chop if they're isolated and you finish with 4 disposals.

these guys have something above the ordinary

JHF
LDU
TT
Bonar ( he can actually play an attacking lockdown role)
Larkey
Comben- ( comes down to injuries)
Perez ( see above)
Phillips
Powell
Zurhaar


Then

Stephenson
CCJ
Mahony
McKay
From there you get a bit more speculative so the jury is out. ie Edwards, Spicer and the rest of last years draft crop

I could comfortably run a line through the following with confidence they wouldn't get on another AFL list.

Turner
Walker
Polec
Scott
Young
Atu


So I've listed 15 names of players that could be very good, in saying that I believe it is two more seasons of pain. But we're on the right track.
Have faith.

I think walker young and atu under the pump for another contract.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Oh I’m not going anywhere but am just having difficulty seeing a path to no. 5

I'm hoping that the last season was more about shaking out a game style, developing relationships between players and coaches, learning the limits and understanding the areas of strength and fitness that need to be worked on. I am hoping that the scoreboard last season was pretty much ignored apart from the few late wins that could have been used to bring about some belief that the process was working.

I hope that nobody at North thinks that there are easy fixes or that JHF will win matches by himself. We need the second tier players to reach a level where they are able to win their contests and for different players to make their presence felt - develop a bit of swagger even.

Most of all we need to have players to play for each other by sheparding, blocking, spreading and leading and not standing a metre away demanding the handpass only to be mowed down a split second later.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Would be a great name for a rock band, don't you think @The Other Dean ?

The Unfortunate Scamper Debacle playing at the Corner next Tuesday supported by The Top Ups and The Missed Opportunities.

 

[Psicosis]

Easy to forget that Melbourne & Sydney are top 4 sides. Practice game or not, we aren't beating those sides yet. Obvious outs as well didn't make the result any better either.

A theme of this preseason from Noble is "beating those around us". Hawthorn & West Coast are two bottom 6 sides and we play them Round 1 & 2. By round 3, I think we will get a pretty good view of where we are at.

 

[Le Grille]

There have been essentially 3 eras since our last period of success:

* The "try desperately to top up a fading, ageing premiership list" era. Colbert, Hay, Thompson, the sh*t Rawlings, the sh*t Power, Calthorpe, etc. I reckon you'll see that with basically every club that went through a stretch of success with more than one flag: most recently, Hawfs are definitely guilty of it and Richmond are showing signs of it.

* The "oh sh*t we nearly went under" era. Don't underestimate how important it was, or at least must have seemed within the four walls, to prove our place in the league by being as competitive as possible. Also we still had some good players and at some point across 2013-2016 might have been good enough to nick one with the right sort of luck. The lack of ultimate success in this era is at least partly caused by the mistakes of the previous one.

* The "uh, oops, that didn't work out" era. The handful of years after 2016 are the only time I think there's a strong case that the club lacked direction in an important and meaningful way. They botched Boomer's exit, misread the 2018 dead cat bounce, and didn't embrace the shitness until a couple of years too late. COVID, the hub, and the Unfortunate Scamper Debacle[1] complicated things for sure. Since about the mid point of 2020, however, I suspect the club as a whole has been pretty realistic about where it's at.

In general, I think dismissing the club's record since 2000 as directionless mediocrity is deliberately missing a lot of context and nuance.

I haven't said much about my expectations for this season, but what I want to see is

• finishing comfortably off the bottom
• being genuinely in it against every team outside the 8
• pushing a few and beating a couple in the 8
• the midfield being measurably not sh*t. Half our starting midfield is going to be players well and truly off their L Plates.

Simpkin and LDU are better than you're giving them credit for. I reckon we've got about 5 guys with top 10 in the league potential (likely only a couple will get to that level, but how many teams, even great ones, are that stacked at the top end? Melbourne Gawn/Trac/Clarry, then it falls away a bit. Dogs Bont/Macrae and a lot of quality depth. Pies at their best - Pendles/Swan and then what? Hawks Mitchell/Hodge/Buddy and footsoldiers.) The mark of great sides is more likely to be how many top-100 players they have than how many top-10. And of course the old truism - great sides have great bottom 6's.

In short - this is the first time since the late 80's we've properly built from the ground up, and two preseason games without important players against top 8 sides is not cause for panic. Stop jumping at shadows and being such a misery guts.

[1] Would be a great name for a rock band, don't you think The Other Dean ?

I would argue the eras are a bit different

2002-2009 - we need to stay afloat and stay competitive, this is why I give Laidley a huge tick (and Scott not so much, I will go into that later) . Yes he topped up with some average players and we certainly were an ugly side at times but the bloke got us to top 4 with a truly awful list.

2010-2012The rebuild
Scott came on board recruited a fair bit of promising types arguably more resources and leeway than laidley but debt reduction still prevalent

2013-2016 didn’t quite get there, Scott developed a side that could beat teams they weren’t favoured to but just as easily could lose to teams they should beat. Many talented players showed flashes but rarely solid week in week out consistency, inability to learn from mistakes hence in reality the ladder positions were a fair indication just middling. Few drafted players of this time have been meaningful contributors.

2017-2020 The rebuild 2 what’s the strategy
After extending Brad to show a bit of stability but getting rejected by Kelly and Martin the “aggressive reset” was a hodgepodge of strategies which led to aggressive contracts offered to players like Polec (which hasn’t worked), by this time it was right for Scott to move on as he did all he could with the club and the message seemed to be lost, enter rhyce Shaw,Covid and a shitstorm of injuries and events that led to shaws exit. Many players recruited are the core of this side now. Hopefully we salvage that from this era

2021- must capitalise
We are here now. It is imperative that Jy, LDU, TT and Larkey become the nucleus of elite talent for the club. Unfair to put it on them but they have been in the system for long enough. If they are going to be top 20 players they need to be it now or in my opinion they will end up not being there. Skills for the club overall need massive improvement for that to occur.

 

[Le Grille]

The Unfortunate Scamper Debacle playing at the Corner next Tuesday supported by The Top Ups and The Missed Opportunities.

The Easy Fixes are doing an in store at JBHifi if you’re keen

 

[Le Grille]

Easy to forget that Melbourne & Sydney are top 4 sides. Practice game or not, we aren't beating those sides yet. Obvious outs as well didn't make the result any better either.

A theme of this preseason from Noble is "beating those around us". Hawthorn & West Coast are two bottom 6 sides and we play them Round 1 & 2. By round 3, I think we will get a pretty good view of where we are at.

Beating them in a ps game isn’t necessarily the goal but there was alarming skill and application issues which is the worry

 

[shintemaster]

Oh we is sh*t of that you can sure. Very sh*t and I once fell for the hype. Aherns guts hanging over his shorts were just to make garner less embarrassed about his guts hanging over his shorts. They'd all come good and the early comparisons I stuck to.
Mahony is being compared to Bell, LDU = Dusty Xerri= Mumford, Turner= some back pocket lockdown genius. Mason Wood= Royce Hart.

I now have my own theory that you're sh*t until you show us you're not. A brave intercept mark or brutal tackle aren't much chop if they're isolated and you finish with 4 disposals.

these guys have something above the ordinary

JHF
LDU
TT
Bonar ( he can actually play an attacking lockdown role)
Larkey
Comben- ( comes down to injuries)
Perez ( see above)
Phillips
Powell
Zurhaar


Then

Stephenson
CCJ
Mahony
McKay
From there you get a bit more speculative so the jury is out. ie Edwards, Spicer and the rest of last years draft crop

I could comfortably run a line through the following with confidence they wouldn't get on another AFL list.

Turner
Walker
Polec
Scott
Young
Atu


So I've listed 15 names of players that could be very good, in saying that I believe it is two more seasons of pain. But we're on the right track.
Have faith.

Wouldn't argue with much of your assessment above (ignoring players that haven't had the opportunity to show their ability). Personally I would be surprised if we do much damage this year unless we have close to a dream run with our mid aged senior core - ie. basically zero injuries to LDU, TT, Larkey, Zurhaar, Stephenson, Mckay, Hall etc. I do agree with other posters that I see this as a 3-5 year journey, difference is that I see 20 & 21 as years 1 & 2 - I expect that this year we start to see some consolidation and ideally a few runs of back to back wins and end up well out of the bottom 4 (injuries permitting). If not this year then 23 we must see genuine results and a dangerous team, even if not in finals. It would be Noble's 3rd season with a lot of list management done prior to his start and first season.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

The Easy Fixes are doing an in store at JBHifi if you’re keen

Along with Scott Joyce and The Rebuilds promoting their album "Thirteen will do".

 

[Psicosis]

Beating them in a ps game isn’t necessarily the goal but there was alarming skill and application issues which is the worry

Agreed.

The Mid to Fwd transitions were disastrous. The lack of run out of d50 was disastrous. The lack of contested ball winning was disastrous.

But lets not be under any illusions that Melbourne & Sydney are significantly better then us. The results are expected. Of course I wish we were braver and showed more effort, but I'll grant them some leeway in a praccy match.

As I said, if we are still talking about this after Round 2, I'll be with you 100%.