NFL Aussies in the NFL

[Johnny Smith]

Wait and see.

 

[handy point]

So what was the full story with Ant Rocca?

 

[Johnny Smith]

I heard this morning that the Patriots have signed David King. It is also on Twitter. Good luck to the lad, hope he sticks around.

 

[Jiggystoon]

I heard this morning that the Patriots have signed David King. It is also on Twitter. Good luck to the lad, hope he sticks around.

Lol yes indeed, but which David King is it? Because they all think over in the states that they have signed the ex North Melb AFL player and current Richmond assistant coach, its even on the official website, however im more then certain its not him, there is another David King from Melbourne who is the guy that has been signed.... Typical of the American journalism, they have obviously just gone and googled the name and grabbed the first thing they have found, the fact that they havent even got it right on there official site is a worry, im waiting to see how long it is before they all figure out there mistake

 

[LarryBrown24]

Lol yes indeed, but which David King is it? Because they all think over in the states that they have signed the ex North Melb AFL player and current Richmond assistant coach, its even on the official website, however im more then certain its not him, there is another David King from Melbourne who is the guy that has been signed.... Typical of the American journalism, they have obviously just gone and googled the name and grabbed the first thing they have found, the fact that they havent even got it right on there official site is a worry, im waiting to see how long it is before they all figure out there mistake

They have indeed, that's quite hilarious. It's everywhere - Pats official site, news sites, wikipedia.

Here's some info on the actual punter version of David King:

http://ozpunt.net/player/david-king

http://coachzauner.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-king-australian-rules-punter.html

 

[Jiggystoon]

They have indeed, that's quite hilarious. It's everywhere - Pats official site, news sites, wikipedia.

Here's some info on the actual punter version of David King:

http://ozpunt.net/player/david-king

http://coachzauner.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-king-australian-rules-punter.html

Actually if you look closely and go to the Pats wikipedia page and look at there roster you will see King's name there if you click on it it actually goes to another David King who used to play for Collingwood, so the yanks have managed to mix up 3 blokes with the same name lol incredible that they have actually stuffed it up on the official site, you would think that if any that would have correct info

 

[Wolfmother2]

Just goes to show how an easy google searching can stuff up journos etc etc..


Here is another link with the correct info pointed out

http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20100415085507705

Three aussies over there is fantastic and shows the academies over here know what they are doing:

Hopefully all three boys will pick up contracts and hopefully the 'Punter from Down Under' show is still going ahead and will give some people opportunities and show US colleges/NFL teams the talent that is here... so they will actively look rather than having it placed in their laps

 

[Jiggystoon]

Just goes to show how an easy google searching can stuff up journos etc etc..


Here is another link with the correct info pointed out

http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20100415085507705

Three aussies over there is fantastic and shows the academies over here know what they are doing:

Hopefully all three boys will pick up contracts and hopefully the 'Punter from Down Under' show is still going ahead and will give some people opportunities and show US colleges/NFL teams the talent that is here... so they will actively look rather than having it placed in their laps

Yes the Aussie boys are having a bit of a purple patch at the moment, it goes to show where the hard work can get you if you put in the hours, there would be so many guys here in Aus that would have the measurables to make it but wouldnt be prepared to put the time in, I dont really see any point in "punter down under" at the end of the day its not really a kicking camp its just reality TV which is going to be scripted to some extent to try and make it interesting, what needs to happen imo is that the academies here in oz need to just make sure they are training there guys up well and making sure that when guys head over to the states they are as well prepared and drilled as possible only then will the guys in the US really take notice and start to really seriously look to the Aussies on a more frequent basis because by the sounds of things more and more guys are heading over there who are no where near up to standard and that only weakens the Aussie reputation for the the fair dinkum guys going over

 

[Wolfmother2]

I think the difficult thing with the academies is the money involved. I know prokick charge a fair bit which can put players off but it is needed for these guys to put in their time and experience into the players here...


The main issue with Oz players is the coin involved...


I think the reality show would show people who aren't prepared to pay etc etc would have the oppportunity to kick for a 200K contract.... thus these gun players at local leagues who are on a couple of hundred a game might have a crack....

Although I believe the show is for USA TV not OZ

 

[Woodson]

Yes the Aussie boys are having a bit of a purple patch at the moment, it goes to show where the hard work can get you if you put in the hours, there would be so many guys here in Aus that would have the measurables to make it but wouldnt be prepared to put the time in, I dont really see any point in "punter down under" at the end of the day its not really a kicking camp its just reality TV which is going to be scripted to some extent to try and make it interesting, what needs to happen imo is that the academies here in oz need to just make sure they are training there guys up well and making sure that when guys head over to the states they are as well prepared and drilled as possible only then will the guys in the US really take notice and start to really seriously look to the Aussies on a more frequent basis because by the sounds of things more and more guys are heading over there who are no where near up to standard and that only weakens the Aussie reputation for the the fair dinkum guys going over

Good post Jiggystoon. The OzPunt academy is quite comprehensive from what I understand. AFL players will get an enhanced recommendation before the local guy who chooses to try out but at the end of the day, it's like anything else presented, this program allows for the ideal opportunity to
make the first step to break into the BIG TIME. Apparently, an NRL player from the Newcastle Knights knocked back $180k (on a one year trial) from the Oakland Raiders from the info I've been given.. how often will this type of opportunity around for anyone else??

 

[Jiggystoon]

Good post Jiggystoon. The OzPunt academy is quite comprehensive from what I understand. AFL players will get an enhanced recommendation before the local guy who chooses to try out but at the end of the day, it's like anything else presented, this program allows for the ideal opportunity to
make the first step to break into the BIG TIME. Apparently, an NRL player from the Newcastle Knights knocked back $180k (on a one year trial) from the Oakland Raiders from the info I've been given.. how often will this type of opportunity around for anyone else??

The NRL player you refer to is Corey Patterson I believe, who went over to the states a couple of years ago, according to my sources in the states there was no trial offer all the talk of NFL interest was either pure speculation or blown out of proportion, in fact when he arrived he was unfortunately not quite ready for the standard of the NFL but not without plenty of potential he was one of those guys that wasnt quite as well prepared as he could have been, in fact I was even told that there were some issues in terms of his eligibility to live and work in the US.
As far as punter down under goes as long as it focuses on the fact that the show is about guys punting and trying to better themselves and give themselves a chance of a career in the states then it will be a good thing. I just worry that the carrot that they dangle at the end is totally unrealistic, if part of the finale is a trip to the NFL combine and finally a contract with a team then thats all well and good but what team is going to commit to signing the "winner" of this show when they dont even know who the guy is? Is he left of right foot? what is his body type? Can he kick off? What is his mentality like? Can he cope with the NFL? All things that NFL teams look at before even looking at a prospect, what I can see is the winner being signed by a team as per the contract agreement of the show and then being released very shortly (unless of course he is extremely gifted and fits the teams needs) this might sound like a good old bitch but at the end of the day I wanna see guys go over there and be a success and that can only stem from the correct programs in place here to ensure they are ready, and I just dont see this TV program as being the answer

 

[Johnny Smith]

I think the difficult thing with the academies is the money involved. I know prokick charge a fair bit which can put players off but it is needed for these guys to put in their time and experience into the players here...


Adam, there you go again saying that we charge a fair bit.............

I hope we do put the clowns off, still too many media seekers floating around, looking for a news headline rather than putting it in. And it takes an awful lot of work.

There's big difference in preparing players to go straight to an NFL contract rather than spending additional money travelling to the U.S to put money into the coffers of Pelfrey and co.

One of our boys has just flown over to the U.S on an official visit to a Div 1 College, so more fun to come.

Personally, I am really pleased for David King as he seems to have done the hard work to get a foot on the ladder.

Blokes who go to the U.S unprepared cause too many problems for the ones who are trying hard to get there. And there's still too many floating around.

 

[Jiggystoon]

I hope we do put the clowns off, still too many media seekers floating around, looking for a news headline rather than putting it in. And it takes an awful lot of work.

There's big difference in preparing players to go straight to an NFL contract rather than spending additional money travelling to the U.S to put money into the coffers of Pelfrey and co.

Couple of interesting points there Johnny, im not affiliated with any of the academies here in Aus but have watched from a far with a pretty keen eye as to what guys are heading over and how they are fairing, unfortunatly there does appear to be some certain people out there who always tend to be popping up in the news sprouting off but with very little to back up there words.
Need I remind how the Nick Davis situation has turned out thus far, mind you he was just as much to blame as he was trying to create a lot of the headlines himself.
Personally I dont see the point in being trained up here in Aus if you are not going over to the states ready and prepared, being trained up and sent over just to go into someone elses kicking camp eg. Palfrey and Aguiar isnt the way to go, if the correct program along with the correct networking to the colleges and NFL franchises can be established here in Aus then there is no reason why guys cant hop on a plane knowing that they have done the hard yards and as a result are confident they can step into a situation where they can get that div 1 scholarship or sign that NFL contract.
Sending them over there for further instruction and training will just cost more money for the player and wont help the players exposure as there will be close to 100 other guys there at the same camp with only about 10-15 pro scouts for example and the chances of being seen properly are hampered.
At the end of the day if someone wants to do this they have to understand that it will cost $$ which ever way they go, so maybe the way to go for guys is to get the correct training first time

 

[Wolfmother2]

I think the difficult thing with the academies is the money involved. I know prokick charge a fair bit which can put players off but it is needed for these guys to put in their time and experience into the players here...


Adam, there you go again saying that we charge a fair bit.............

I hope we do put the clowns off, still too many media seekers floating around, looking for a news headline rather than putting it in. And it takes an awful lot of work.

There's big difference in preparing players to go straight to an NFL contract rather than spending additional money travelling to the U.S to put money into the coffers of Pelfrey and co.

One of our boys has just flown over to the U.S on an official visit to a Div 1 College, so more fun to come.

Personally, I am really pleased for David King as he seems to have done the hard work to get a foot on the ladder.

Blokes who go to the U.S unprepared cause too many problems for the ones who are trying hard to get there. And there's still too many floating around.

Johnny, I personnally haven't been down at Ozpunt for a few years and Cameron is a good friend of mine so I'm still in the loop but I really am just a watcher with a bit of insight knowledge.

I don't have Prokicks full schedule of fees but have a rough idea and it is a bit of money.... I think you guys are entitled to every cent as the expertise and time it takes to train these guys is alot, and you won't see me disagreeing with your fees, which is what I said in the original post. I think you'll agree that there is a lot of natural talent in Oz that could have an impact in the USA (especially in the college system as our young athletes are born kicking and the places aren't as limited as NFL)... I think the cost of training here puts some people off....

I think it is a myth that some of the guys are going over to Peffrey etc etc just for "training" (although some are just going over to have a look and aren't up to standard which I think they are well aware of before they attend).... The patriots aren't ringing Nathan or Cameron and saying to check this guy out for me..... The camps the guys are attending are to get exposure to NFL scouts and get ranked against their peers with the same conditions etc etc and have people the special teams coaches look over the players...

I believe Nathan and yourself have better contacts in NFL to get guys like Chris Byrant direct trials which is fantastic but people forgot that Sav was on the way home and only because he changed managers and she organised a trial did he get picked up... All in all it isn't a pissing contest to me as I'm not involved with either... I just wish them both the best of luck and hope they can help guys with talent in Oz take the next step

 

[Wolfmother2]

Personally I dont see the point in being trained up here in Aus if you are not going over to the states ready and prepared, being trained up and sent over just to go into someone elses kicking camp eg. Palfrey and Aguiar isnt the way to go, if the correct program along with the correct networking to the colleges and NFL franchises can be established here in Aus then there is no reason why guys cant hop on a plane knowing that they have done the hard yards and as a result are confident they can step into a situation where they can get that div 1 scholarship or sign that NFL contract.
Sending them over there for further instruction and training will just cost more money for the player and wont help the players exposure as there will be close to 100 other guys there at the same camp with only about 10-15 pro scouts for example and the chances of being seen properly are hampered.
At the end of the day if someone wants to do this they have to understand that it will cost $$ which ever way they go, so maybe the way to go for guys is to get the correct training first time

The issue is how you get there and creating a chance for you to be recognized. I believe Prokick definitely have a better network in the NFL although Ozpunt was est for college players rather than NFL. The main issue is establishing this network.

I believe sending guys to the camps is the way to go personally but that is only an opinion. Although they are completing against 100 others their results are all measured so you can definitely stand out and you will be competing against the same guys at camp if you are selected at a personal trial.

There has been two methods used with two players Chris and David.

Chris went to a personal trial at Green Bay where he was picked up... this allows for a good connection between GB and Prokick because they gave the talent to GB before the rest of the NFL saw the package. What if Chris hadn't performed on the day and they decided not to pick him up (Johnny you maybe able to assist on this one but as it was a private trial I would assume that it was only a confirmation as they had seen the tapes talked to you and he was going to camp regardless) but if he hadn't been picked up did he have other trials lined up? Sav didn't get picked up at the first couple....

David went to the camp although the patriots knew who he was and maybe a couple of others (I don't really know) and probably could of trialled at NFL teams as he was ready. They choose to camp and got the exposure and was ranked one by the camps in front of his peers and was picked up by a team...

One involves flying to a few different venues in the states and one to a camp, I prefer the second but would be interested to know what the thoughts of others is...

 

[Jiggystoon]

The issue is how you get there and creating a chance for you to be recognized. I believe Prokick definitely have a better network in the NFL although Ozpunt was est for college players rather than NFL. The main issue is establishing this network.

I believe sending guys to the camps is the way to go personally but that is only an opinion. Although they are completing against 100 others their results are all measured so you can definitely stand out and you will be competing against the same guys at camp if you are selected at a personal trial.

There has been two methods used with two players Chris and David.

Chris went to a personal trial at Green Bay where he was picked up... this allows for a good connection between GB and Prokick because they gave the talent to GB before the rest of the NFL saw the package. What if Chris hadn't performed on the day and they decided not to pick him up (Johnny you maybe able to assist on this one but as it was a private trial I would assume that it was only a confirmation as they had seen the tapes talked to you and he was going to camp regardless) but if he hadn't been picked up did he have other trials lined up? Sav didn't get picked up at the first couple....

David went to the camp although the patriots knew who he was and maybe a couple of others (I don't really know) and probably could of trialled at NFL teams as he was ready. They choose to camp and got the exposure and was ranked one by the camps in front of his peers and was picked up by a team...

One involves flying to a few different venues in the states and one to a camp, I prefer the second but would be interested to know what the thoughts of others is...

Some interesting points Wolf, at the end of the day both Chris and David have taken different paths but will both see themselves in a position to compete for the job at there respective teams, I didnt mean to sound critical before about players going to camps to compete, for many prospects this is really the only option available to them, as not everyone gets the chance for private workouts.
Prokick have done a massive job in getting guys like Chris Bryan and even Jy Bond there personal workouts but even more so they have trained these guys up to a level where they could step up and kick at the required level on the day and under all the pressure and that is a big tick to prokick because that speaks volumes about the training they provide.
Back to the Camp scenario there are also benefits of this as you outlined such as being measured up against your peers in the same conditions etc. My only worry about this scenario is whether or not pro scouts in attendance will pay enough attention to the potential on show, these guys are pretty busy and a lot only shoot into camps, have a quick look and then have to be somewhere else and then they might request that the guys running the camp send them the results which could easily end up in a big pile on the scouts work desk and never been looked at again,
I realise that sounds like a fairly negative hypothetical but im sure it does happen.
But like I have been saying all along if the guys are good enough and being trained up correctly and are mentally focused on the job at hand when they do go over to the states they are in the best possible position to get that contract whether it be from a private workout or attending a camp

 

[Johnny Smith]

Hmmmmm, Nathan and Cameron in the same sentence...have tried to resist but.... have...to..type.

Australians don't need to go to U.S camps, they don't need to put money into the coffers of American trainers. I have a great deal of respect for all the U.S trainers, but too many lads are going for a chance in the spotlight. Want the experience? Come on down and I'll give you experience.

Somebody is going to counter that it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there.But there are always camps ready to take your money if you want to spend it. I am reminded of an individual who told me that ProKick charged too much. The same bloke has so far probably paid double what we charge and is still nowhere.

I think some blokes don't come to us because we will tell them they will never get there.

ProKick Australia is fully affiliated with Rick Sang and Ray Guy of ProKicker.com. That is who we work with and evaluate our college guys. I don't believe the work we do in that area gets the recognition it deserves.

I am not in favour of young blokes paying anything to play Div 1, unless they are unable to meet the academic requirements and have to seek an alternative pathway.Too many U,S ,College coaches think they can get away with charging Aussie lads for at least their first semester, if not their first year. Well the way we turn them out they give them a full ride or they go elsewhere - and that means saying no to a walk-on at a BIG school. If they want them they can pay for the privilege. Again, if the boys are not ready, we don't send them!

The NFL is not for the faint -hearted. Getting players to a contract position is an intense process that we are improving it all the time. We have the contacts when we need them. They trust us. So we don't send anyone who is not ready, because once you do that, it can be a loooonnnng way back to respectability. But you always have a plan B,C and D for potential NFL players. I mentioned in an earlier post that Chris Bryan had other teams lined up,but did not need them.

We all know that Australia is an incredible breeding ground, but as I keep saying, we have to send guys who are ready- physically and mentally - to win a contract. Then the real battle begins.

Again I see that history is being changed on the pages of this forum. Truth seems to be in short supply sometimes.

This is only the start of the Australian invasion into the NFL.

Keep watching over the next few years, it is going to be amazing.

 

[Woodson]

We all know that Australia is an incredible breeding ground, but as I keep saying, we have to send guys who are ready- physically and mentally - to win a contract. Then the real battle begins.

Again I see that history is being changed on the pages of this forum. Truth seems to be in short supply sometimes.

This is only the start of the Australian invasion into the NFL.

Keep watching over the next few years, it is going to be amazing.

I was pumping up Ben Graham's tyres on a NFL chat site TWO years before he left Geelong.. I always knew that some AFL footballers are more than capable.... I think you're spot on JS about the Australian invasion in the coming decade is gonna see this as a better option than playing in a home league that has nothing to offer regards serious career opportunities.

Really liking Dustin Fletcher's chances if he decides to give the AFL away... should of gone/ (retired) after last season IMHO. Wouldn't be shocked if Buddy Franklin ends up in the NFL one day.

 

[Johnny Smith]

Personally, there is no way I would give up an AFL/NRL spot paying me $300,000.00+ if I felt I could have a 5 year plus career.

I really think it is the boys who can play 4/5 years of College, become degree qualified, build an incredible network and then give the NFL a serious crack for 10 years plus who will get the NFL gigs in the long run.

Serving an NCAA apprenticeship only builds respect and acceptance.

Going straight into the NFL is still seen as a bit of a novelty in the U.S.

Still concerned that clowns will flood the market and get in the way of the genuine boys................

 

[Woodson]

Personally, there is no way I would give up an AFL/NRL spot paying me $300,000.00+ if I felt I could have a 5 year plus career.

I really think it is the boys who can play 4/5 years of College, become degree qualified, build an incredible network and then give the NFL a serious crack for 10 years plus who will get the NFL gigs in the long run.

Serving an NCAA apprenticeship only builds respect and acceptance.

Going straight into the NFL is still seen as a bit of a novelty in the U.S.

Still concerned that clowns will flood the market and get in the way of the genuine boys................

Clowns won't go anywhere... they'll be exposed immediately. As you stated,
"NFL is not the faint -hearted". On the flipside.. explain how Bryan has a contract with the Packers after being dismal with his AFL career? Novelty is one thing but when you consider Mat McBriars debut... makes you wonder how he survived the cut considering the proven Ben Graham was given just ONE SHOT with the then-dinky Saints on foreign NFL soil to make an impression..

I do recall Mat McBriar having a nightmare debut game that drew plenty of backlash from then Cowboys HC, Bill Parcells. Considering he has overcome such adversity, I say good on him... earning some decent coin too.

I see Jy Bond has been moved on from the Dolphins and trying his luck with the Gints.

 

[Johnny Smith]

There are a heap of camps in the U.S happy to take money off Aussies. There are also plenty of media outlets over here happy to publicise Aussies at those camps. Ergo, go to a camp and get on T.V.................

Chris dismal with his AFL career? Jeez, there are many blokes who would kill to have played AFL footy. He is a great kick and has done the work - he is still early in his development. No-one in the NFL cares about what an individual has done in the AFL, apart from the obvious in dealing with huge crowds.

Overcoming adversity? That's part of normal life for a kicker/punter, not for the faint-hearted.

What does NFL mean when you are a punter/kicker.

NOT FOR LONG!

 

[Jiggystoon]

Clowns won't go anywhere... they'll be exposed immediately. As you stated,
"NFL is not the faint -hearted". On the flipside.. explain how Bryan has a contract with the Packers after being dismal with his AFL career? Novelty is one thing but when you consider Mat McBriars debut... makes you wonder how he survived the cut considering the proven Ben Graham was given just ONE SHOT with the then-dinky Saints on foreign NFL soil to make an impression..

I do recall Mat McBriar having a nightmare debut game that drew plenty of backlash from then Cowboys HC, Bill Parcells. Considering he has overcome such adversity, I say good on him... earning some decent coin too.

I see Jy Bond has been moved on from the Dolphins and trying his luck with the Gints.

I think what Johnny means (and forgive me if im wrong) is that the "clowns" that are going over there trying to make a name for themselves are ruining it for the genuine punters/kickers here in oz that are doing the hard yards to get the the required level.
Some guys are heading to the states with a bit of the basic knowledge and going to these camps and performing fairly average, then it creates a false reputation among NFL and NCAA circles as what they are seeing is what they are expecting to be the "best" that oz has to offer, so what happens when they dont perform? Eventually teams will stop looking for Aussies because the reputation is being shot by the wannabes that go over there trying to make a name for themselves. Its all about how well prepared you are before you go over there,

 

[Woodson]

I think what Johnny means (and forgive me if im wrong) is that the "clowns" that are going over there trying to make a name for themselves are ruining it for the genuine punters/kickers here in oz that are doing the hard yards to get the the required level.
Some guys are heading to the states with a bit of the basic knowledge and going to these camps and performing fairly average, then it creates a false reputation among NFL and NCAA circles as what they are seeing is what they are expecting to be the "best" that oz has to offer, so what happens when they dont perform? Eventually teams will stop looking for Aussies because the reputation is being shot by the wannabes that go over there trying to make a name for themselves. Its all about how well prepared you are before you go over there,

Never assume all scouts in the USA will buy into that train of thought as potential harnessing is their forte and they'll soon know what sources they have to find the best on offer from OZ.. you really think that any bozo will push to become an NFL punter without knowing/ having the right technique is what is required? I don't want to pre-empt the idea that most NFL scouts will allow any guy from Australia to push for a try-out because they've simply got AFL standard experience or just can kick a sherrin footy far & wide.. IMHO Reputations are about individuals rather than homeland ilk. If they care to discriminate, that's their reason to do so... not all will think the same. Plenty (scouts) will seek & look outside the square anyway.

 

[Jiggystoon]

Never assume all scouts in the USA will buy into that train of thought as potential harnessing is their forte and they'll soon know what sources they have to find the best on offer from OZ.. you really think that any bozo will push to become an NFL punter without knowing/ having the right technique is what is required? I don't want to pre-empt the idea that most NFL scouts will allow any guy from Australia to push for a try-out because they've simply got AFL standard experience or just can kick a sherrin footy far & wide.. IMHO Reputations are about individuals rather than homeland ilk. If they care to discriminate, that's their reason to do so... not all will think the same. Plenty (scouts) will seek & look outside the square anyway.

Not just any bozo will go over there and push for a spot, but any bozo who has been given a bit of the basic training and has had there tires pumped up enough to think that they are good enough are the ones going over there and taking a shot at it,
At the end of the day anyone can enter one of those camps and have a crack. Its not about discrimination.... Everytime that a troupe of guys head over there from Aus (say ozpunt for instance who have annual trips over there) they enter a kicking camp eg. Pelfrey, Chris Sailor, Louie Aguiar etc If those guys are not up to scratch it is going to hurt other guys chances, not in the short term but long term,
For example, some guys have been built up to be something special before anyone in the states has seem them kick and when it turns out that they are not quite as great as they were expecting its going to be a let down... over the long term the attraction of the Aussie guys could start to diminish over time because of the sub standard talent being put on display,

 

[Johnny Smith]

Woody, we might meet up one day and then we can have an off-line disucsion about this, because there are areas that I will not get drawn into because the printed word can be brought up and used against you - Thank you Chris Sailer-

Over the next 5 years I think the clown issue will settle down, as you rightly said, U.S coaches will see where the quality is coming from. Quality will prevail in the long run.

But more pain to come yet methinks.................