Discussion Australia v South Africa 2nd Test - Boxing Day

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Press are going to have a field day with this, Ponting and the selectors picking both Lee and Roy while Hilfy and Watson sit on their asses, both go out injured or 10% of the players they are and Australia give up the 9th wicket to a 180 partnership on the Sth African tail which has done nothing of note with the bat.

Haydos - force retire if he fails this innings
Roy - drop
Lee - drop

Rogers, Watson and Hilfy / Bollinger, get them into the side to get some consistency before the ashes and some genuine swingers of the ball. Siddle & Clark to then go for the next spot.
 
CHBench said:
Big day tommorow i reckon. ... Haydos needs a score.
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He's on his way...

(had someone offered Hayden a deal that he would still be batting at stumps, he would have taken it...)
 
StFly said:
Press are going to have a field day with this, Ponting and the selectors picking both Lee and Roy while Hilfy and Watson sit on their asses, both go out injured or 10% of the players they are and Australia give up the 9th wicket to a 180 partnership on the Sth African tail which has done nothing of note with the bat.

Haydos - force retire if he fails this innings
Roy - drop
Lee - drop

Rogers, Watson and Hilfy / Bollinger, get them into the side to get some consistency before the ashes and some genuine swingers of the ball. Siddle & Clark to then go for the next spot.
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I agree with all those changes. Lee has a stress fracture type foot injury so will probably be out for the Sydney test anyway and should be replaced by either Hilfenhaus or Bollinger. Symonds is also injured and can't bowl properly so should be replaced by Watson. I think Hayden will stay until the end of this series but he should then retire gracefully and let Rogers, Hughes, Jaques or Marsh take his spot.

A pretty poor effort today though to let Duminy and the SA tail bat almost all day and take a lead. You know you are in trouble when Hussey is your best bowler. Ponting's captaincy has been pretty uninspired at times too it must be said, he just seemed to let things slide too easily today.
 

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The time of the Hilf is close at hand :thumbsu: That at least is some small consolation to the fact that we now suck :(

I fell asleep with Steyn on about 14, woke up hours later and switched on to see how Haydos went only to see Steyn was on 70 and SA in the lead :eek: I absoloutely couldn't believe it, thought they had to have the score wrong or something
 
LOL couldn't believe Steyn made it to 76. Was at the beach all day, expecting to come home and watch us bat with a nice lead. But no, then found out at the tea break we had taken 1 wicket by none other than M.Hussey. That completely shitted on my day. :thumbsdown:

I guess that's payback for when we last played them over here and Hussey and McGrath had a motherload of a 10th wicket partnership.

Is anyone else nervous?
Horrible horrible feeling that Haydos is going to fail....:(
 
Australia's only hope...

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDV10450.shtml

:eek:

The Sydney test will be interesting (hoping that Australia can somehow save a draw from the current test). I think it is time to make some tough decision, including dropping established players who

- are out of form and lack confidence (Hayden / Hussey / Symonds)

- are injured or not fully fit (Symonds / Lee and, to a lesser extent, Katich / Ponting).

On the other hand, you have to admit that South Africa is playing very good cricket. They are confident, well led (as Ponting is about to find out, it is a lot easier to captain a superior side), in a good age group with some real young talent (Duminy / Harris). They may well be the dominating team for quite a few years.
 
Plugger35 said:
I agree with all those changes. Lee has a stress fracture type foot injury so will probably be out for the Sydney test anyway and should be replaced by either Hilfenhaus or Bollinger. Symonds is also injured and can't bowl properly so should be replaced by Watson. I think Hayden will stay until the end of this series but he should then retire gracefully and let Rogers, Hughes, Jaques or Marsh take his spot.

A pretty poor effort today though to let Duminy and the SA tail bat almost all day and take a lead. You know you are in trouble when Hussey is your best bowler. Ponting's captaincy has been pretty uninspired at times too it must be said, he just seemed to let things slide too easily today.
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Siddle was servicable, used the conditions perfectly can't fault a guy who had 3 for 20 odd in a test and was beating the bat constantly and only ended up leaking 50 runs for a 4 wicket haul. Johnson was off the boil a bit, his angles were messed up, third bowling option was a no show since Lee was off, 4th was a no show since Ropy was injured, 5th and 6th were rush jobs to get the 2nd new ball in Pup and Huss.

CHBench said:
The Sydney test will be interesting (hoping that Australia can somehow save a draw from the current test). I think it is time to make some tough decision, including dropping established players who

- are out of form and lack confidence (Hayden / Hussey / Symonds)

- are injured or not fully fit (Symonds / Lee and, to a lesser extent, Katich / Ponting).
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Could almost do a direct swap, Hussey for Hussey.

Jaques is still out injured with his back I believe so that would leave Hughes / Rogers for Hayden (and selectors really better go Rogers since he's got far better consistency over a longer period)

Symonds - Watson
Lee - Hilfy

Retain Johnson, Siddle, Hauritz, add Watson & Hilfy the bowling attack suddenly looks a lot better than it is, could also take the gamble if we end up drawing this, wait for Hilfy to hit some form and bring in Nannes for the single test, shake it up and at least make SA earn it with a slinger. (since Tait is god awful in the tests)
 
CHBench said:
Horrible horrible feeling that Haydos is going to fail....
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....And he did as well as the rest of the top order.

God this is all wrong. We were supposed to have a lead of 150 to bat into. We were supposed to be shoe-ins for this match.
Now that there is no chance of a win or even a draw Aussie selectors need to grow some balls. After this test SAF will have an unassailable lead in the series. The selectors need to bring in future potential. I'm talking Hilfenhaus, Bollinger, Rogers, Hughes, Watson. And replace the deadwood that is gaining selection on past performances only.

Hayden having a an absolute horror of a summer.
Scores of 8, 0, 24, N/A against the black caps. And 12, 4, 8, 23 against the Proteas. Not good enough. He is the building blocks to the innings. He needs to get the team off to a good start, and so far has not done that. If this was Jacques or Katich they would've been shipped out ages ago. Times up Haydos, it's been fun.

I don;t understand. Symo is our number one all rounder. What's the point of playing an allrounder if he can't bowl and is not getting great figures with the bat? Rest him for Sydney, no point playing himm and putting more strain on his back (???). Watson is a better bowler, and to me has the potential to be just as good a batsman as Symo.

Lee. Another vital cog who has had a horror summer and seemingly out of form.
Has taken 13 wickets this summer, only 1 against South Africa in 3 innings. :eek:
Seriously needs to go, can't continue to carry passengers who won't carry the load. And he's injured. Deadweight.

Hussey, MrCricket is walking a fine line. Definatley won;t get dropped but gee he getting close. Scored a total of....wait for it.....10 RUNS in the series. Needs to be dropped down the order imo. Back where he plays his best cricket.

//rant.. :)

Next test,
Rogers ---> Haydos
Hilfenhaus ---> Lee
Watson ---> Symonds

And that goes down as a dropped catch. Why the hell would you put a man there. Stupid.
 
The Aussie cricket team is quickly becoming the Freo of the cricketing world. at this rate the POM's will give us a towelling.

Ponting seems like a stunned mullet, no ideas and no innovation. time for the selectors to cut and cut deep. send a message as failure will not be tolerated. painful to watch.

Full credit to the Proteas, playing great cricket against an opposition that apparently think its fine to chase the wayward ball, did they learn nothing from JP's innings yesterday, he was controlled and humble two words that are not used when discussing the Aussie cricket team. (Rant ends now)
 
Ponting can change up the field and mix the attack up all he wants, at the end of the day he can't stop our players bowling pies or playing bullshit shots (himself aside for the latter, but he's been our best player by a mile this test). Sure his captaincy hasn't been spot on, but to blame him for all this is a cop out. We just don't have the bowlers to take 20 wickets cheaply enough and our batsman don't seem to be placing any value on their wicket at all.

Rogers ---> Haydos
Hilfenhaus ---> Lee
Watson ---> Symonds

agree with those changes CHBench, but if we lose this test (nigh certainty) and therefore the series then honestly we may as well play Hughes and get some experience into him, he is the future of our top order after all.
 
It's definitley a tossup between Rogers and Hughes for the openers spot. I just think experience may win out on this one, correct me if i'm wrong but South Africa can take Number 1 ranking if they whitewash the series. So we still have to approach the next match as serious as ever.

In all fairness to Ponting, he hasn't actually had the attack to inovate with. Johnson is the only one who has pulled more than his fair share of weight. Hauritz has doen well. Lee is terrible atm. Symo can't bowl. Siddle did well in this test, but quite the opposite at the WACA.
Boy are we missing Stuart Clark or what. :(

The Saffers are an awesome side. Talent everywhere. Can;t forget they still have to fit Ashwell Prince in.
 
I'm almost in tears, when will something go right :(

Still 200 runs from two innings, if anyone else got close to that this test we might still be in with a chance.
 

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God almighty. Talk about the meltdown board.

Anyone suggesting Mike Hussey should be dropped is kidding themselves. Come on people, don't be like everyone else and make clueless comments. I expect more from my fellow Sainters! Hussey is having a bad run of it, it'll turn around. Funny how you always get the decisions go against you when you're down on form. He copped a shocker today.

I don't think Watson or Symonds are the answer at number 6. Symonds is used as a containment bowler, which he did quite well yesterday (10 overs for 13 with a few maidens), tough to use that at the other end though when you're main strike bowler is injured. Watson as a batsman is ordinary in my opinion. Has had his chances and has failed to deliver, however if he is given successive chances he might fire up. Symonds simply isn't up to number 6 standard with the bat. However is the best fielder in the world, in terms of saving runs. No doubt Watson's bowling would have been greatly appreciated. Glaringly obvious when Lee was off yesterday.

Ease up on Bing Lee brothers and sisters. The bloke has been bowled into the ground. He took 9 wickets 3 tests ago (yes it was against NZ, but how come every other bowler didn't do it?). He's obviously not 100%. I get annoyed though and feel for blokes who are busting their gut under duress, surely just letting the public know is the best way to go (Saints could take notice of this as well).

I agree it's time for Haydos to move along. Disagree that he should have been moved along sooner though. He has dominated at the MCG in years past. Since he has returned from his achilles injury he just hasn't been the same. Timing all amiss. Sad to see him go, but there's not much better viwes than seeing ML Hayden in full flight.

Finally, Hilfenhaus has to be brought in for Sydney. Selectors are making no sense to name a bloke in a 13 man squad and then not selecting him when a spot opens up for the next game.

Man the Animal Enclosure kicks ass!
 
Look2Me4Guidance said:
God almighty. Talk about the meltdown board.
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We're a passionate lot. ;)
Not calling for Huss' head but seriously that is a shocker of a series. 10 runs. In 4 innings. No where near good enough. Infact that's insulting.
Interesting to see Lee made a come back and bowled 4 overs tonight. Might still end up being rested but you have to question his place in the side.
 
Look2Me4Guidance said:
Anyone suggesting Mike Hussey should be dropped is kidding themselves. Come on people, don't be like everyone else and make clueless comments. I expect more from my fellow Sainters! Hussey is having a bad run of it, it'll turn around.
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I like Mike Hussey. He was great in 2006 and 2007 with an average close to only Bradman himself. He waited for a long time and made as much as anyone can from his opportunity.

You may of course argue that he still has an average of 59.04 and that noone with such an average should be dropped. You may have a point. Matthew Hayden still has an average of 50.92.

But times have changed. Australia is not the dominating cricket nation any more that can afford to carry out of form players. I don't think that past results and glory should be considered by the selectors, especially in a sport where stats say so much.

35 - 0 - 70 - 0 - 8 - 0 - 2.

Mike Hussey has a total of 115 runs - including 105 against New Zealand - to his name from 7 innings in Australia this summer (I admit that he was one of the better players in India). That's only slightly better than Hayden's 79 and worse than Andrew Symonds's 167.

You say that he will turn it around. You're probably right, he is a phantastic cricketer. But it is quite obvious that his confidence is near all time low levels. The unfortunate attempt in the field when the ball dropped about 2 metres away from him after he stumbled around will not have helped - no criticism, others have lost a ball in the sun, just another piece of the puzzle. Add a terrible decision against him yesterday and you have a difficullt state of mind that he has to overcome.

I agree - he probably will turn it around. But how long will it take him ? Remember that he came into the team rather late in his career. Can Australia - especially these days - afford to wait for a 33 year old to find his form while in the team (he will be 34 by the start of the Ashes - Hayden is 'only' a bit over three years older) ? I'm not so sure. A few months back with WA may be good for him to regain his confidence away from the main spotlight - and will give the selectors the chance to test others (if his current form does not improve, do you want to see him for the England tour ?).

I would not be disappointed if he stays in the team and would be more than happy if he finds his form and confidence again. But I do think that quite some major changes will be required if Australia wants to keep up with South Africa and India. The India tour and current series against South Africa at least come close to a bit of a meltdown for one of the greatest teams of all times in any sport, don't they ? Apologies if that was another clueless remark.
 
ljm2 said:
SHANE Watson's injury woes have returned at the worst possible time, with the allrounder suffering stress fractures in his back and ruled out for four weeks.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24855626-10389,00.html



So if symonds and watson are both injured, is it time for some Dave Hussey??:cool:
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Watson must be the most injury prone cricketer in the history of the game. He always seems to get injured at the wrong time too, just when he looks like breaking back into the Australian team. You have to wonder if he will ever have a major impact as an international cricketer now.

With Watson injured it looks like they will probably stick with Symonds for Sydney even though he probably should be dropped. I wouldn't mind them trying someone else in the middle order though such as David Hussey or Marcus North, both of whom can bowl a bit.

I also think they will stick with Hayden for Sydney but would like to see a younger player given a go after that. Looks like Bollinger is the odds on favourite to replace Lee but not sure who they will pick as the spinner. Neither Krejza or Hauritz have set the world on fire in this series but there aren't many other alternatives.

SA cruising to an easy win now, you wouldn't have picked that a couple of days ago when we looked like taking a big first innings lead.
 
:confused:
Plugger35 said:
Watson must be the most injury prone cricketer in the history of the game. He always seems to get injured at the wrong time too, just when he looks like breaking back into the Australian team. You have to wonder if he will ever have a major impact as an international cricketer now.

With Watson injured it looks like they will probably stick with Symonds for Sydney even though he probably should be dropped. I wouldn't mind them trying someone else in the middle order though such as David Hussey or Marcus North, both of whom can bowl a bit.

I also think they will stick with Hayden for Sydney but would like to see a younger player given a go after that. Looks like Bollinger is the odds on favourite to replace Lee but not sure who they will pick as the spinner. Neither Krejza or Hauritz have set the world on fire in this series but there aren't many other alternatives.

SA cruising to an easy win now, you wouldn't have picked that a couple of days ago when we looked like taking a big first innings lead.
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How many people out there along with me think Watson is one of most overrated cricketers in the world:confused:
 
^ Symonds should be removed from that list.

Arguably, bowling line up for the future with MJ looking to become the lead up strike bowler instead of the consistent contributor with angle. McDonald & Hauritz really need to do well as D Husseyis also banging the door down and is also a decent off spinner himself and Krejza is still around to snap at Hauritz's heels.

Siddle still has a lot of work to do to further his game, but has already tasted success with 5 wickets for the series thus far, needs to keep it up and not revert to his short of a length wide stock ball and keep the pressure on, but that'll come in time hopefully.

Will be interesting to see how Hilfy & Bollinger do if either of them end up playing and take the new ball with MJ, trying to think of any combination that's opened with 2 lefties.
 
HoldenMCaulfield said:
I would not be disappointed if he stays in the team and would be more than happy if he finds his form and confidence again. But I do think that quite some major changes will be required if Australia wants to keep up with South Africa and India. The India tour and current series against South Africa at least come close to a bit of a meltdown for one of the greatest teams of all times in any sport, don't they ? Apologies if that was another clueless remark.
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Certainly given the current climate things needs to change. Given we are struggling we aren't in a position to be carrying non performers. South Africa have been able to carry Neil McKenzie (does anyone think he looks like Dean Solomon?) because they are playing well.

The India tour was very disappointing, but even at the peak of our powers we've only won one series in the last 30 or so years over there. First test at the WACA required history to be made to beat us, so that's not necessarily a meltdown. The second test we simply ran out of cattle. I wouldn't classify it as a meltdown. A loss to NZ would have been but we brushed them aside no worries, which in hindsight was the worst possible thing as it gave a false sense of security.

Problems are always easier to see after a heavy loss. It'll be interesting to see the way forward.

Apologies if my previous post offended anyone but common sense is a wonderful thing in these tough times.
 

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Discussion Australia v South Africa 2nd Test - Boxing Day

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