Moved Thread Bailey Smith vs Sam Walsh

[conrad_437]

I think their year wasn't even enough to really make that statement. But then, a lot of people simply aren't watching the games this year, so maybe you're right.


I think threads like this are near meaningless. Smith will be a gun, possibly inside the top 5 players running round within 4-5 seasons; Walsh will be the next captain of my club. We're both happy; why make ourselves unhappy by trying to find the blemish on the other bloke?

We're all privileged to watch that draft coterie run around.

No, that's fair, I'd forgotten.

Here's hoping he's back to his best next year.

I said this in another thread, but there seems to be something exciting about having the so-called “best young player in the comp” at your club. For ya it was Bontempelli, for you guys it was Cripps and when they’re so young, it’s easy to get caught up in the hype and you love to see your player get the recognition you think they deserve. Both our clubs are incredibly fortunate to have watched both Bont and Cripps (who still aren’t in the prime of their careers, mind you) grow up and stamp their authority as two of the top 5 players in the game, and potentially have the same happen all over again. We shouldn’t take that for granted.

 

[Dazb86]

I said this in another thread, but there seems to be something exciting about having the so-called “best young player in the comp” at your club. For ya it was Bontempelli, for you guys it was Cripps and when they’re so young, it’s easy to get caught up in the hype and you love to see your player get the recognition you think they deserve. Both our clubs are incredibly fortunate to have watched both Bont and Cripps (who still aren’t in the prime of their careers, mind you) grow up and stamp their authority as two of the top 5 players in the game, and potentially have the same happen all over again. We shouldn’t take that for granted.

I like Smith and Walsh but I don't think this is another Cripps V Bont debate. The ceiling of both players is considerably lower IMO

 

[Fadge]

Watch the Carlton folk flock to this thread now that Finals have started and they have nothing better to focus on.

Again.

 

[FairKouta]

Watch the Carlton folk flock to this thread now that Finals have started and they have nothing better to focus on.

Again.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Watch me flock to this thread because it is Carlton related and I have nothing better to focus on.

Again.

EFA

 

[Robertio]

Watch the Carlton folk flock to this thread now that Finals have started and they have nothing better to focus on.

Again.

What's this got to do with the thread title?

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Only because I'm bored...

Sam Walsh's coaches votes - Carlton or Opposition coaches:
Rd 18 vs Brisbane- 4 votes. 2 other players received 1 vote each and the 4 votes are accounted for too - this therefore means he received 2 votes from the opposition coach
Rd 16 vs Sydney - 10 votes = 5 votes from opposition coach
Rd 15 vs GWS - 8 votes; match had a clear 10-8-6-4-2 alignment = 4 votes from opposition coach
Rd 14 vs Collingwood - 2 votes; vote allocation in this match is unclear. However, it is clear that only one coach gave him votes and no other Carlton player received votes. I think it is fair to assume that Teague (and not FIGJAM Buckley) gave Walsh the votes in this match
Rd 13 vs Gold Coast -4 votes; another vote allocation all over the place. Murphy received 10; TWO players (Jack Martin and Walsh) received 4 only - ie one coach gave 4 and the other gave 0. This one is quite unclear as it was a blowout game. Potentially Teague only...
Rd 12 vs Freo - 2 votes. Both coaches gave Walsh 1x vote
Rd 8 vs North - 3 votes. 3 players received 3 votes; it is possible he received either 3 from one coach, or 2-1 from both. Luke McDonald received 1 and that's almost certainly Rhys Shaw voting in a Carlton win. So Walsh, Pittonet and Ed Curnow either received 3, 2 or 0 votes from Rhys Shaw. I'd lean to Walsh (the outside receiver who had 21 touches and a goal) GETTING votes from Shaw; the likely one who didn't is Pittonet (who did a great job in the ruck, but Goldstein still dominated hitouts 41-27 - that looks like a game only his own coach rewards to me). Interestingly that implies that Rhys Shaw most likely gave Walsh more votes than Teague
Rd 7 vs Port - 5 votes. The vote pattern indicates this was a 3-2. Dissecting further, both coaches gave Dixon 5. Ladhams and Jonas got 4s, Walsh and Jonas 3s, McKenzie and Walsh 2s, Weitering and Wines 1s. In a game decided after the siren, this is tough to predict but only one coach rewarded Ladhams so lets assume that was Hinkley, in which case it is likely that Walsh got 3 from Teague and 2 from Hinkley.

From this, it is clear that Walsh likely received at least 16-17 of his 36 votes from opposition coaches. Furthermore, it's likely there was only one likely occasion where his coach gave votes but not the opposition coach (and that was Buckley who gave ALL his votes to Collingwood players), 1-2 occasions where it is possible/unclear, and 1 likely occasion where the opposition coach gave him more votes than the Carlton coach.

I think that reasonably thoroughly debunks the claim that his votes were given out wishful thinking by his own coach. A better conspiracy might be that opposition coaches around the league are giving Walsh votes to lure Carlton into a false sense of optimisim...


Now, onto Bailey Smith. He received 1 coaches vote vs Carlton this year in 1 match. Thats slightly lower than his season average of 1.5 votes per game.
Last year, he didn't get coaches vote vs Carlton, but it isn't really fair to include that, because he didn't really get coaches votes at all last season.
However, the evidence available suggests that Smith gets LESS coaches votes in games involving Carlton than he does vs other opposition.

None of which adds much to the conversation really, but as I said, it has been a boring week with no matches!

Strong effort to prove that he only got votes in Carlton games and the majority were from the Carlton coach.

 

[branedotorg]

Pretty sure Smith only got coaches votes in bulldogs games too, not sure Smith polled in any gold coast games except maybe one

 

[Fadge]

Smith the Doggies best tonight in a losing side.

Pity we can't see how Walsh performs on the big stage as a point of comparison.

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

Smith the Doggies best tonight in a losing side.

Pity we can't see how Walsh performs on the big stage as a point of comparison.

Dogs probably would have won had he hit more targets or not been so greedy in the first quarter. Players free but decides to go alone. Was a turnover merchant tonight.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Smith the Doggies best tonight in a losing side.

Pity we can't see how Walsh performs on the big stage as a point of comparison.

There are people that can help you with this stuff. Just talk to someone.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Was a turnover merchant tonight.

It was disappointing to see Bailey get 5 turnovers. Curious though, if he was a turnover merchant in this game, would that make Walsh a turnover merchant in general? After all, he averaged nearly 5 a game.

 

[RudyBlue]

EFA

Fadge gets punished

 

[Dazb86]

Smith the Doggies best tonight in a losing side.

Pity we can't see how Walsh performs on the big stage as a point of comparison.

Far from our best. Wasn't a terrible game but would like a few moments back around goal.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

It was disappointing to see Bailey get 5 turnovers. Curious though, if he was a turnover merchant in this game, would that make Walsh a turnover merchant in general? After all, he averaged nearly 5 a game.

Dustin Martin averaged over 6 a game and was the league leader in 2017 when he won a Brownlow.
Tom Mitchell averaged over 6 a game and was the league leader in 2018 when he won a Brownlow.
Dangerfield averaged over 5 a game and was 14th in the league in 2016 when he won a Brownlow.
Fyfe averaged nearly 5 a game and was 17th in the league in 2015 when he won a Brownlow.

So all I'm getting from this, is that Walsh is odds on to win a Brownlow soon.

But seriously, they're both great young players and will be considered top mids for hopefully the next 10+ years.
Dogs supporters wouldn't swap Smith for Walsh, and Blues supporters wouldn't swap Walsh for Smith. Opposition supporters can like whoever they want.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Smith the Doggies best tonight in a losing side.

Pity we can't see how Walsh performs on the big stage as a point of comparison.

I've been off bigfooty for a little over 2 years. Nice to see some things never change. Fadge obsessed with being in every single Carlton related thread, while taking pot shots at every opportunity and adding nothing of substance.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Dustin Martin averaged over 6 a game and was the league leader in 2017 when he won a Brownlow.
Tom Mitchell averaged over 6 a game and was the league leader in 2018 when he won a Brownlow.
Dangerfield averaged over 5 a game and was 14th in the league in 2016 when he won a Brownlow.
Fyfe averaged nearly 5 a game and was 17th in the league in 2015 when he won a Brownlow.

So all I'm getting from this, is that Walsh is odds on to win a Brownlow soon.

But seriously, they're both great young players and will be considered top mids for hopefully the next 10+ years.
Dogs supporters wouldn't swap Smith for Walsh, and Blues supporters wouldn't swap Walsh for Smith. Opposition supporters can like whoever they want.

Guys like Martin and Fyfe are constantly tagged, constantly the ball in congested and/or dangerous parts of the ground - therefore their turnover rate is naturally higher than players who get it on the outside and don't have an actual opponent.


Smith doesn't like the physical pressure. He freaks out. Not a huge issue, as he's a skinny kid.
But no surprise he shit the bed in a final every time he went near the ball.

Even though he didn't have a direct opponent, the heat was just a bit much for him.

 

[Fadge]

I've been off bigfooty for a little over 2 years. Nice to see some things never change. Fadge obsessed with being in every single Carlton related thread, while taking pot shots at every opportunity and adding nothing of substance.

Let me guess, you're back to talk up Carlton's 2021 chances?

 

[Fadge]

Dogs probably would have won had he hit more targets or not been so greedy in the first quarter. Players free but decides to go alone. Was a turnover merchant tonight.

Far from our best. Wasn't a terrible game but would like a few moments back around goal.

Smith doesn't like the physical pressure. He freaks out. Not a huge issue, as he's a skinny kid.
But no surprise he sh*t the bed in a final every time he went near the ball.

Even though he didn't have a direct opponent, the heat was just a bit much for him.

Based on some of the comments on here I was second-guessing myself as I was going off my own judgement of the game and hadn't seen any media reports with best players, etc.

And lo and behold, what did I find?

What more do you expect from a second year player in a final that was decided by less than a kick?

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Based on some of the comments on here I was second-guessing myself as I was going off my own judgement of the game and hadn't seen any media reports with best players, etc.

And lo and behold, what did I find?
View attachment 978705
What more do you expect from a second year player in a final that was decided by less than a kick?

6 inside 50s and 4 clearances is good, but 2 behinds and no tackles hurt us. Not a bad game but not a great one either, just alright.

 

[Dazb86]

Based on some of the comments on here I was second-guessing myself as I was going off my own judgement of the game and hadn't seen any media reports with best players, etc.

And lo and behold, what did I find?
View attachment 978705
What more do you expect from a second year player in a final that was decided by less than a kick?

Not saying he was bad but he wasn't our best. Fluffed a few passes into F50 and missed a simple set shot in front of goal.

 

[Sirlemsip]

But seriously, they're both great young players and will be considered top mids for hopefully the next 10+ years.
Dogs supporters wouldn't swap Smith for Walsh, and Blues supporters wouldn't swap Walsh for Smith. Opposition supporters can like whoever they want.

As a neutral supporter, if given a pick between the two at this stage of their careers I would take Bailey Smith.

They are both young and have room to improve, but I just feel that Smith has a higher ceiling - IF he can get there.

Of course, if Walsh wanted to come over I certainly wouldn't say no

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Guys like Martin and Fyfe are constantly tagged, constantly the ball in congested and/or dangerous parts of the ground - therefore their turnover rate is naturally higher than players who get it on the outside and don't have an actual opponent.


Smith doesn't like the physical pressure. He freaks out. Not a huge issue, as he's a skinny kid.
But no surprise he sh*t the bed in a final every time he went near the ball.

Even though he didn't have a direct opponent, the heat was just a bit much for him.

And on the flip side of that, guys like Walsh, are constantly moving, sprinting from contest to contest and averaging 15-16km per game, which can affect disposal accuracy.
They're both good in slightly different ways, even though a lot of their numbers this year were quite similar.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Let me guess, you're back to talk up Carlton's 2021 chances?

You can guess whatever you want.
I'm here to talk footy. Most of my content will be Carlton related, because that's who I follow and the team that I have the most knowledge on.
I couldn't think of anything worse than following around all the Collingwood threads to take cheap shots at the club and supporters for my own self-satisfaction.
Just seems odd, but to each their own.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

You can guess whatever you want.
I'm here to talk footy. Most of my content will be Carlton related, because that's who I follow and the team that I have the most knowledge on.
I couldn't think of anything worse than following around all the Collingwood threads to take cheap shots at the club and supporters for my own self-satisfaction.
Just seems odd, but to each their own.

Can just predict the sort of responses he could come back with here.

"Can't really take a cheap shot at Collingwood, as they are winning finals. Something Carlton haven't done and won't be doing for a while."
"This thread isn't about Collingwood. Why mention them?"