Banning Lollies?

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

They showed it on Channel 4 here in the UK during the Lunch Break programme.

He took out a mint, put it in his mouth, and put the mints back in his sock. The next thing we know he is ball shining using his saliva.

If you want hard evidence, that is more conclusive than some specutlation in a newspaper article.

We have hard evidence,

Bracken saying its rife in england

And your mates on another forum admitting flintoff was caught clawing at the ball

Explain to me how all of a sudden you got the ball to reverse swing but not on previous tours and series

 

[pinkus maximus]

They showed it on Channel 4 here in the UK during the Lunch Break programme.

He took out a mint, put it in his mouth, and put the mints back in his sock. The next thing we know he is ball shining using his saliva.

If you want hard evidence, that is more conclusive than some specutlation in a newspaper article.

Interesting. Were the commentators insinuating that the aussies were ball tampering?

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Here is another article regarding this practice

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A SIMPLE lolly may have been England's secret weapon that saw Australia's 16 years of Ashes dominance come crashing down.

The magic mint sucked by England's cricketers, who then polished the ball, has been attributed with their expert ability to baffle Australia's batsmen with reverse swing.

The world champions were at a loss to know how the likes of Andrew Flintoff and Simon Jones managed to make the ball reverse so early in the innings, and also control the deadly swing with precision.

The mint could be the mysterious missing ingredient.

Fringe Australian fast bowler Nathan Bracken yesterday revealed there was a particular English breath-freshener which helped the ball reverse swing. "It is just a breath mint you put in your mouth but it makes your saliva very sugary and that is being talked about being used over there," Bracken, who has played English county cricket for Gloucestershire, told a Sydney radio station. "Every team has lollies and things like that, we had all our lollies checked before the first game to make sure there was nothing illegal that we had. When I was playing at Gloucester a couple of years ago, as soon as we needed the ball to go 'Irish' the captain would call and they would bring out some of these mints and it would work."

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AdvertisementAll-rounder Flintoff took 24 wickets at 27 runs apiece and Jones 18 at 21 to propel the English to their first series win over Australia since 1986-87.

The pair managed to make the ball reverse as early as 11 overs, while Australia's quicks failed to rattle the English bats by making the ball go 'Irish'.

So long as the mint isn't applied directly to the ball, the bizarre practice cannot be considered cheating but it is a ball-tampering grey area.

In a bulletin sent to umpires and state officials this month, Cricket Australia stated "loading" one side of the ball with sweat or saliva without immediately polishing it was illegal tampering.

The briefing said polishing the ball was "clearly allowed, but the use of artificial substances such as sunscreen is not".

Indian batsman Rahul Dravid was reprimanded for rubbing a lozenge on the ball during a one-day international against Zimbabwe at the Gabba two seasons ago.

Reverse swing, believed to have emerged on the subcontinent in the late 1950s, has long been eyed with suspicion in Western countries.

Pakistanis Sarfraz Nawaz and Imran Khan were among the pioneers in Test cricket but were accused of "fiddling" with the ball with bottle-tops and scratching it with long fingernails.

Sydney-based Pakistani Waqar Younis, regarded by many as the finest exponent of reverse swing, taking many of his 373 Test wickets with lethal in-swinging yorkers, played down concerns about unorthodox polishing methods.

"These controversies have always been with the game," Younis said. "Not just our days, even before that. The West Indies used to rub the ball on their arms. This is part of the game"

 

[Grimwood]

I suspect both teams were at it with the mints, although as RB says the only person who was actually seen with a packet was Warne. I don't think there was anything beyond that though as it wasn't as if England got the ball to reverse and Australia didn't, they just used it better which wasn't surprising given that they had Simon Jones in the side.

The day after the OT test finished Sky showed a Roses match at the same ground and the ball looked exactly the same as it did during the test, roughed up after only 20 or so overs. Although only Dominic Cork and Jimmy Anderson got it to do anything.

 

[pinkus maximus]

BTW I didnt start this thread to have an inderect dig at England or anything I just thought it was interesting report

 

[Rob B]

No-one else has seen it but this guy

If warney does so much as clogs the dunny its on front page news

It would have been on CNN if the great man had been caught with mints down his socks

If you were watching Channel 4's coverage without your green and yellow tinted shades you will of seen it as they showed it in less detail during the coverage.

I couldn't care less if Warne did ball tamper though, nor could I care less if England did. It has been going on for years, everyone will of had a pieve of the action at some stage I would imagine, and will continue to do so until there is a massive clampdown on it.

I don't even think it should be against the law. If it is OK to pitch doctor why can't you ball doctor?

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Well just to let you know,

You will be watched like hawks when you come to our turf

And also, its alot harder to get swing at our grounds

And the aussie crowds will be baying for blood

CANT WAIT

COME GET SOME

 

[Grimwood]

Well just to let you know,

You will be watched like hawks when you come to our turf

And also, its alot harder to get swing at our grounds

And the aussie crowds will be baying for blood

CANT WAIT

COME GET SOME

Yes it is a lot harder to get the old Kookaburra ball to move than the Duke ball and banana yorkers and the like are probably out of the question. Still, it is possible to get it to do just enough as Flintoff demonstrated in super test and Simon Jones showed in the South African tour.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Yes it is a lot harder to get the old Kookaburra ball to move than the Duke ball and banana yorkers and the like are probably out of the question. Still, it is possible to get it to do just enough as Flintoff demonstrated in super test and Simon Jones showed in the South African tour.

Remember though, Flintoff did it in HEAVY, DRIZZLY, LOW LYING CLOUD conditions

In clear daylight he was taking a hammering, so was his friend Harmy

 

[Rob B]

Australia's seam bowlers struggled to get England out when the batting conditions were good in the Ashes, only Warne really had an impact (taking 40 of the 90 odd England wickets to fall in the series).

Australia are fortunate to have a great like him to reduce the damage of modern day flat wickets.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

The Legendary RB, England got to bat first 4 out of 5 times, when you combine that fact with the fact that England had the in-form bowling line up then normally that will mean a victory for England.

Next time your coming to our turf and lets just say, IM LOOKING FORWARD TO IT

 

[Rob B]

The Legendary RB, England got to bat first 4 out of 5 times, when you combine that fact with the fact that England had the in-form bowling line up then normally that will mean a victory for England.

Next time your coming to our turf and lets just say, IM LOOKING FORWARD TO IT

I will look forward to England facing two 37 year old bowlers (who won't be at their very prime at that age), Brett Lee and Shane Watson as well. Shaun Tait might be a good international by then.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

I will look forward to England facing two 37 year old bowlers (who won't be at their very prime at that age), Brett Lee and Shane Watson as well. Shaun Tait might be a good international by then.

Mitchell Johnson might be on the scene by then as well

Ripped through the Tasmanian's batting line-up at the gabba today taking 3 wickets in 20 balls at one stage

Before that, I look forward to the Pakistan England series, i have a feeling "mighty england" might struggle

 

[Rob B]

Mitchell Johnson might be on the scene by then as well

Ripped through the Tasmanian's batting line-up at the gabba today taking 3 wickets in 20 balls at one stage

Well Alistair Cook made a 200 against you, I guess he must be on the scene by then as well and destroy Australia.

Before that, I look forward to the Pakistan England series, i have a feeling "mighty england" might struggle

Admittadly, so do I

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Just a question, Legendary RB mate, how old are you???

 

[Rob B]

I am 18 years old Champ. I was going to ask the same about you, although I just looked it up on TMS.

Simon Jones bites back: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/4356264.stm

Notice how Bracken sneakily admits to doing it himself?

 

[YOTC]

No the English will come out saying yes we are guilty. For god sakes TLRB get a grip.

Observers put England's success down to a simple formula.

Steve Harmison and Flintoff bang the ball hard into the pitch when bowling and the fielders throw the ball back to the wicket-keeper on the bounce, which roughs the ball up quicker.


So throwing the ball in on the bounce gets the ball reverse swinging after 20 overs?

 

[Rob B]

Australia were doing that as well. Throwing the ball into Gilchrist on the bounce..... The bowlers just don't bowl reverse swing as well.

For goodness sake, open your eyes, everyone is at it. This arguement of singleing out England with these allogations is a very weak and poor one! Give it up.

If I need to get a grip, I ain't the only one.

 

[YOTC]

Australia were doing that as well. Throwing the ball into Gilchrist on the bounce..... The bowlers just don't bowl reverse swing as well.

For goodness sake, open your eyes, everyone is at it. This arguement of singleing out England with these allogations is a very weak and poor one! Give it up.

If I need to get a grip, I ain't the only one.

And i suppose Younis and Akram never used bottle tops?

C'mon, we all know you poms are scared you have been found out. 17 years of pain, you just can't stand it anymore.

 

[Rob B]

Their teammates probably did help them a bit with some ball tampering because it has been going on since swing was discovered.

Get over it and can you all stop being so childish.

Jesus wept. Why am I bothering? I am afraid to say non of you Aussies on this board seem man enough to admit England won because they were the better side.

Now, why don't you go and worry about the West Indies series, and us poms will worry about Pakistan. If you are so confident about the 2006/07 series then why dwell on this one?

Ashes 2005 = History. No one cares anymore.

I could float a cruise liner on the amount of sour grapes floating about this board!

 

[Rob B]

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/content/200510/s1486162.htm

But Bracken said the effect was produced by the mints being sucked by the England team and said the Australians also tried the trick with their own lollies.

 

[sportznut]

Before that, I look forward to the Pakistan England series, i have a feeling "mighty england" might struggle

Doubt it.

 

[Uhumagoo]

no, i havent even heard of this. You must have gotten it from an english tabloid.

We lost, but we didnt lose fairly.

We might have lost the ashes, but this thread is evidenece that we did at least come home with the "Whingers" title firmly in our grasp.

 

[Homer Jnr]

Ban the Poms, hand back the ashes and crucify all the dirty cheaters.

Vaughan, Fletcher and the bowlers. Send them to Indonesia and get them to face a firing squad.

If they are allowed to do that, lets just replace the ball every 10 overs.

 

[usalion]

If the Englih did something, well they got away with it...the ICC aint gonna change anything now...but it hopefully is looking at what players are using...frankly, I would have thought anything except natural saliva should be outside the spirit of the laws....but I'm guessing...anyway, see what they say.

As for corked bats, they make the ball go farther....makes the bat an ounce or two ligther, but essentially the same structure.... since most cricket shots are more along the ground, probably would not be effective.