Before the video replays - mad & dirty players

[Dry Rot]

Thanks to those who replied to my Robbie Muir thread.

Made me think how video scrutiny of the game has pretty well removed these characters from the game (perhaps for the better).

Who are your favourite mad and/or dirty players of all time? (Can include criminal or other exploits off field too)

 

[shiva25]

John Bourke for pushing an umpire over in a Coll v Swans reserves game in the mid 80s was a classic.
I remember playing against him when he later played for Heidelberg in the diamond valley in the mid 90s and still hadnt changed his ways as he was intent on belting any opposition player that came next to him

 

[topdon]

Niel Balme was a dirty sniper.

 

[MGREG]

Kevin Sheedy was a dirty dog and Robert Walls was an ankle tapper.

 

[floorshaker]

Originally posted by shiva25
John Bourke for pushing an umpire over in a Coll v Swans reserves game in the mid 80s was a classic.
I remember playing against him when he later played for Heidelberg in the diamond valley in the mid 90s and still hadnt changed his ways as he was intent on belting any opposition player that came next to him

Big lump of Frankenstienesque lard.

My goldfish could lamp him.

 

[Anton Grbac]

'Rotten' Ronnie Andrews was a favourite at Windy Hill in the '70's and early '80's. Ronnie king-hit and broke Brian 'Whale' Roberts' jaw in the infamous 'Windy Hill Brawl' v Richmond in 1974.

Years later, when asked to explain his reasons for his actions, Ronnie replied "Well.......you know what it's like.......you see a head......and you hit it......" Ronnie was, in Leigh Matthews' own words " the only man to make me nervous on a footy field".

Ronnie wouldn't get a game these days. Did some despicable things on the footy ground, but he was ours, and we loved him.




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EFC: We Hate You Too

 

[wagstaff]

Originally posted by Wally
'Rotten' Ronnie Andrews was a favourite at Windy Hill in the '70's and early '80's.

From what I've seen of him on tapes from that era, he seemed the most scary and intimidating player around. Not just because of what he did but because at times he looked to be genuinely unhinged (in a match against Carlton in 1981, after knocking over several Carlton players in a dust-up he almost decked one of his own teammates so crazed he was).

Tim Watson said that if trial-by-video were played today he would still be serving suspensions from his first pre-season at Essendon.

 

[Foxtrot]

Rod Grinter was a pretty mad and dirty specimen who played for Melbourne in the late 80s. He Smashed Terry Wallace's jaw with a huge round arm punch in one of the most unsavoury incidents I can remember seeing (Along with Footscray's Jim Edmund breaking Russel Morris's jaw in a very similar incicent). Can't recall if it was actually pre-trial by video as I believe he was suspended.

As with Robbie Muir - Grinter was actually a pretty skillfull player who just happened to be a head case.

I think I recall him also being involved in a drunken off field rampage with some fellow Dees which resulted in him throwing a brick through someone's window. In a complete PR disaster, the owner of the house turned out to be a Demon fan who disowned the club after that.

[edit] Grinter probably fell more in the "sniper" category than someone players actually feared.

 

[Anton Grbac]

Originally posted by wagstaff
From what I've seen of him on tapes from that era, he seemed the most scary and intimidating player around. Not just because of what he did but because at times he looked to be genuinely unhinged (in a match against Carlton in 1981, after knocking over several Carlton players in a dust-up he almost decked one of his own teammates so crazed he was).

Tim Watson said that if trial-by-video were played today he would still be serving suspensions from his first pre-season at Essendon.

Yep,
Very intimidating individual, those crazy blue eyes gave him a very menacing appearance. Tim also once told the story "Ronnie was the slowest bloke to ever play the game, but it was amazing how every opposition player suddenly became slower than Ronnie once he got the footy under his arm and made a 'dash' downfield". He also stated that if Ronnie gave an opposition player 'the stare', he (opposition player) was 'gone'.

'genuinely unhinged', 'crazed'?, yes, your probably right.



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EFC: We Hate You Too

 

[skilts]

I used to work for a brick company in Oakleigh. One of the drivers who delivered clay to us was a bloke called Jack 'Basher' Williams. This bloke was suspended for about twelve weeks after the 1945 'Bloodbath' GF between Carlton and South Melbourne. One of the charges was "adopting a fighting stance towards an umpire".

I said to a bloke I worked with one day how gentlemanly this so-called ogre was. He told me not to be deceived. Apparently this bloke had played a game against 'Basher', in a lesser competition. He related how he'd gone up and taken a speccy over 'Basher', right in the middle of the ground. As he came down from taking the mark, he made the mistake of looking into 'Basher's eyes and smiling. He became extremely worried by what he saw. 'Basher's eyes were buried so far into their recesses as to be invisible.

The bloke I worked with wisely decided not to go near 'Basher' or the ball for the rest of the day.

The eyes sinking into the back of the head is a dead giveaway.

An horrific sight.

 

[wagstaff]

Originally posted by Foxtrot
Rod Grinter was a pretty mad and dirty specimen who played for Melbourne in the late 80s. He Smashed Terry Wallace's jaw with a huge round arm punch in one of the most unsavoury incidents I can remember seeing Can't recall if it was actually pre-trial by video as I believe he was suspended.

That incident was the beginning of trial-by-video as Grinter, incredibly enough, wasn't even reported by the umpire as the incident occurred. But the outcry was so great, that the VFL decided to charge him by video and he was suspended for I think 6 weeks.

I agree that Grinter wasn't really a feared player like Ronnie Andrews was - some of the things he got suspended for were more sneaky then nasty (I would Greg Willams in that category as well).

A classic example was against Richmond in 1990 when Grinter staged for a free kick lying on the ground as the siren went. Mark Lee walked past and said something to him (probably 'get the f*** up') and Grinter leapt off the ground and punched him in the stomach. It was hardly vicious but because of his poor record, he got several weeks for it

 

[Foxtrot]

Originally posted by wagstaff
Grinter leapt off the ground and punched him in the stomach. It was hardly vicious but because of his poor record, he got several weeks for it

He was court martialed for insubordination towards The General

 

[macca23]

Dave Grainger for Port Adelade in the SANFL. Quite rightly referred to as "Grave Danger", he was an absolute psychopath who, as seems to be usually the case, could really play footy. But when the little piggy brain snapped, it really was a case of watch out. If there was any team who felt his wrath more than any others, it was Glenelg, and on an individual basis it was Graham Cornes.

As a neutral supporter, it was quite sickening to watch him in the infamous final against Glenelg, when he committed atrocity after atrocity, and in so doing helped Port Adelaide to a premiership. I think that was his last game in the SANFL. He has since claimed that his actions were all done at his coach's directions (John Cahill) and that they told him no matter how many games he got they would stand by him. Can't remember how many he got, but Port Adelaide didn't stand by him and told him he wasn't required.

Whether his claims were true or not is irrelevant - he was trouble with a capital T. The game was better off without him.

 

[wagstaff]

Originally posted by Foxtrot
He was court martialed for insubordination towards The General

Lucky he didn't deck Richard 'President' Nixon otherwise he would've been tried for treason.

Actually, he also managed to jab Andy Goodwin in the same match (while pretending to be concerned about the health of a teammate) and was also rubbed out for that as well.

 

[jim440]

Big Carl.

 

[bulldogs1]

I think Edmund was playing with the Swans at the time (not sure, though).

Originally posted by Foxtrot
Footscray's Jim Edmund breaking Russel Morris's jaw in a very similar incicent).

 

[Mcchawk]

Originally posted by bulldogs1
I think Edmund was playing with the Swans at the time (not sure, though).

Edmond was playing for the Brisbane Bears when he cleaned up Russell "Fly" Morris, never heard some many Hawthorn supporters happy when this happened.

Their is still a chant of Jimmy Edmond is my mate is my mate is my mate

Jimmy Edmond is my mate he got Morris.

An oldie but a goodie

 

[SCRAY72]

Toughest, Meanest I have seen since I have going to the footy.

1. Robbie Muir
2. Carl Ditterich
3. Jim Buckley
4. Mal Brown
5. Rick Kennedy

At the Bulldogs

1. Rick Kennedy (Mad Mean Mother F***er)
2. Jim Edmond
3. Steve Macpherson

 

[mightymax]

THE ESSENDON FOOTBALL CLUB.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Hawthorn since the early 60s have had a plethora of very hard men: off the top of my head-John Peck, Norm Bussell (one hell of a mean mother), the legendary 'Delicate' Des Dickson, Don Scott, Robert Dipierdomenio, Dermott Brereton, Gary Ayres, etc. But Leigh Matthews was definitely the hardest and meanest of them all. His hit on Stuart Trott in the 1971 Grand Final has to be seen to be believed. The speed he is travelling at when he collects poor Trott (who a few years later would a be teammate of Lethal) is astounding. I also remember him cleaning up a player at Collingwood with a fearsome hip and shoulder. The player (I can't remember his name) was out for 4 weeks after the incident. Amazingly the Collingwood coaching staff thanked Matthews: the general consensus was that if Matthews had raised the elbow and collected the player in the head, the player would not have been able to play league football again, such was the speed and ferocity of the shirtfront.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Originally posted by macca23
Dave Grainger for Port Adelade in the SANFL. Quite rightly referred to as "Grave Danger", he was an absolute psychopath who, as seems to be usually the case, could really play footy. But when the little piggy brain snapped, it really was a case of watch out. If there was any team who felt his wrath more than any others, it was Glenelg, and on an individual basis it was Graham Cornes.

As a neutral supporter, it was quite sickening to watch him in the infamous final against Glenelg, when he committed atrocity after atrocity, and in so doing helped Port Adelaide to a premiership. I think that was his last game in the SANFL. He has since claimed that his actions were all done at his coach's directions (John Cahill) and that they told him no matter how many games he got they would stand by him. Can't remember how many he got, but Port Adelaide didn't stand by him and told him he wasn't required.

Whether his claims were true or not is irrelevant - he was trouble with a capital T. The game was better off without him.

No "i" in Granger like there's no "I" in team, right Macca?

We had a long and interesting thread mostly on Dave in either the Regional or Port Board (I can't remember, but I'm sure someone with a better memory than me, like dreamkillers, could find it).

I won't dispute your analysis of Dave, but the final you refer to was the 1982 Preliminary Final which Glenelg won by 1 point. His actions never won us a Premiership (although there are such myths followers of other clubs would like to perpetuate). Ironically enough, the Bays won that game in the dying seconds when Dave was pushed in the back in front of goal by Cornes and the umpire ignored the offence. Cornes has basically admitted the push but played the numbers game ... he figured the ump would never pay the free and he was right.

It was his last game in the SANFL but I think you'll find Jack Cahill moved on to Collingwood after that game and Granger was doing pre season training under Russell Ebert. He was cut loose after an off field incident which he did appear in court over.

BTW I don't think he particularly disliked Graham Cornes, he just happened to be Dave's direct opponent that day and had written several inflammatory pieces about Dave in his weekly column in the Football Times.

 

[Foxtrot]

Originally posted by Rusty Brookes
the legendary 'Delicate' Des Dickson

Easily the greatest nickname for a player of that ilk ever

Another pre TBV nutcase was David Rhys Jones who once again was a talented player (won a Norm Smith medal in 87 playing on Brereton) but capable of contracting severe cases of white line fever.

The funny thing is the 2 incidents I remember most about him involved him being the victim of sniper acts from opposition players. Namely, 1) Greg Williams diving into a pack he was on the bottom of and busting his jaw with his forearm and 2) The normally mild mannered Dennis Banks belting him from behind on the boundary of Vic/Princess (?) park. Methinks both incidents were probably relaliations but you couldn't argue that DRJ never copped anything.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Originally posted by Foxtrot
Easily the greatest nickname for a player of that ilk ever

Another pre TBV nutcase was David Rhys Jones who once again was a talented player (won a Norm Smith medal in 87 playing on Brereton) but capable of contracting severe cases of white line fever.

The funny thing is the 2 incidents I remember most about him involved him being the victim of sniper acts from opposition players. Namely, 1) Greg Williams diving into a pack he was on the bottom of and busting his jaw with his forearm and 2) The normally mild mannered Dennis Banks belting him from behind on the boundary of Vic/Princess (?) park. Methinks both incidents were probably relaliations but you couldn't argue that DRJ never copped anything.

Rhys Jones was definitely a nutter on the ground but like you my memories (fuelled by the Electrifying Eighties DVD) are of Rhys copping it. I think he was second or third on the all time suspension/reported list though: he is up there with Brereton and Big Carl.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Ford Fairlane

I won't dispute your analysis of Dave, but the final you refer to was the 1982 Preliminary Final which Glenelg won by 1 point. His actions never won us a Premiership (although there are such myths followers of other clubs would like to perpetuate). Ironically enough, the Bays won that game in the dying seconds when Dave was pushed in the back in front of goal by Cornes and the umpire ignored the offence. Cornes has basically admitted the push but played the numbers game ... he figured the ump would never pay the free and he was right.

Thanks for that. You're right as to the result. I was so captivated in a macabre manner by the non-football elements of the game that I did forget the football aspects and that the Bays got up in the end by a point. As for the push in the back to Granger that could be seen from 100 metres away, but I think the umpires wouldn't have dared pay the free after Granger's activities for the day.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Easily the most deranged individual I have seen on a footy field was Ricky Maclean of Richmond. He was genuinly scarey 'cos you knew what he was capable of but never knew when he was gonna 'turn'. He really seemed to enjoy hurting people. Ditterich was also pretty fiery.
Ron Andrews was just a king hit merchant who would run at the first sign of trouble or someone bigger than him turning up on the scene.



I also have a video of a game from the late '30s or early '40s. The footage is supposed to show how good a player Haydn Bunton is and comes from a Richmond/Fitzroy game from before the war. Just as the umpire bounces the ball a player-I think its Don "Mopsy' Fraser just runs through the centre with both elbows sticking out. Bunton just waltzes around him and just as the umpire turns to watch, Fraser drops both his elbows and turns to follow Bunton, classic stuff.