Good post.
I cannot see any logic in matching Brown up on the more athletic forwards, it's not his go. He should've manned Kosi.
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ben reids just not good enough
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Good post.
I cannot see any logic in matching Brown up on the more athletic forwards, it's not his go. He should've manned Kosi.
I was very happy with Ben Reids game he dominated Kosi who is a very good key player, N.Brown had a shocker. The turn around was when was when presti came on and shut Reidwoldt down. The mistake by Ben Reid at the end was poor but but on the bright side in regular season with none of this supergoal crap we won by 2 points 
Yep, I agree Matty. For his first run at CHB it was good start. Disappointing end to the game for him with the turnover, but its better he makes this error and learns from in a NAB cup game. I think last nights game highlights that N Brown is not suited to the Riewoldt types and shouldn't play on them.
If you turned the supergoals into normal goals then we'd have won it. But thats not the case and the Saints beat us. A promising start to the season despite the loss.
If you turned the supergoals into normal goals then we'd have won it. But thats not the case and the Saints beat us. A promising start to the season despite the loss.
I thought he showed improvement in his kicking accuracy and penetration. Problem is he needs to improve his decision making when using by foot.
That last turnover wasn't a bad kick, it was a bad decision.
He would've hit the player lace out, unfortunately he kicked to a 2 on 1.
Yeah you're right there Didaka and its something that should improve as he gets more experience. Being put under that sort of pressure in a game that isn't shattering to lose is a good thing for a young player. Going on last nights game I would be surprised if he didn't play in round one.
I'm wondering if Leigh Brown is going to be the next toovey. Can he slowly win us detractors over as well?
I'm wondering if Leigh Brown is going to be the next toovey. Can he slowly win us detractors over as well?
AssassinAndy
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Jie_Hodge
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I cant recall seeing a whole heap of Reid last night!
This a good thing however becasue in defense it means he man wasn't getting a whole heap of ball delivered to him, so I would say Reid must have been pretty tight.Someone at the ground might be able shed more as you cant tell by watching on Telly.
He was on Kosi for most of the night wasnt he and Kosi only had 5 marks and 1 goal, so not a bad effort I would say. Stanley did let take one good grab on him, but his game is being blown out of proportion too.He did make a bad decision, but im not worried about that.
I still have faith that he will become an above average if not better AFL Key Position Defense player, not all players in the backline have to have 20+ touches and set up goals, the good thing with Reid is with time I think we might see this output as well as limiting opponents
This a good thing however becasue in defense it means he man wasn't getting a whole heap of ball delivered to him, so I would say Reid must have been pretty tight.Someone at the ground might be able shed more as you cant tell by watching on Telly.
He was on Kosi for most of the night wasnt he and Kosi only had 5 marks and 1 goal, so not a bad effort I would say. Stanley did let take one good grab on him, but his game is being blown out of proportion too.He did make a bad decision, but im not worried about that.
I still have faith that he will become an above average if not better AFL Key Position Defense player, not all players in the backline have to have 20+ touches and set up goals, the good thing with Reid is with time I think we might see this output as well as limiting opponents
I had a lot of hope for Ben Reid. He is probably the most important KPP prospect we have. I probably spent most the game watching him.
From what I saw last night he has the same problems that prevented him from playing seniors before.
1. I don't understand why he has always gone to ground so easily. He goes to ground even when there is no pressure on him. Maybe he is uncoordinated, I don't know.
2. He is very lethargic in his approach. Just seems to lope around so casually. He looked plainfully slow last night and we all know that he isn't so I guess its just that he is out of his depth and doesn't know when to move.
3. Finally, it baffles me is why he can kick so well on the run yet his shot at goal is completely whacked. There are obviously issues upstairs with this kid i.e. confidence and it isn't looking good right now.
The bad decision is a non-issue for me. The issue is that he was loose all night and constantly went to ground and the ONLY reason Kosi didn't kick 10 is because they never went to him. I can't believe our supporters saying he dominated Kosi. Good god.
Brown looked worse because they constantly went to Roo, but I'd say they were equally bad.
If Ben Reid can't play on a wing or in the forward line he has no future with us.
From what I saw last night he has the same problems that prevented him from playing seniors before.
1. I don't understand why he has always gone to ground so easily. He goes to ground even when there is no pressure on him. Maybe he is uncoordinated, I don't know.
2. He is very lethargic in his approach. Just seems to lope around so casually. He looked plainfully slow last night and we all know that he isn't so I guess its just that he is out of his depth and doesn't know when to move.
3. Finally, it baffles me is why he can kick so well on the run yet his shot at goal is completely whacked. There are obviously issues upstairs with this kid i.e. confidence and it isn't looking good right now.
The bad decision is a non-issue for me. The issue is that he was loose all night and constantly went to ground and the ONLY reason Kosi didn't kick 10 is because they never went to him. I can't believe our supporters saying he dominated Kosi. Good god.
Brown looked worse because they constantly went to Roo, but I'd say they were equally bad.
If Ben Reid can't play on a wing or in the forward line he has no future with us.
and you would have dumped Scarlett, Lake & Glass (and the rest I can't recall as clearly)all at the same point in their careers, if you are basing that on his 2nd game as an AFL backmen.
mattys123
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Must have been at a different match, Kosi, 5 kicks, 2 handballs, 5 marks (3 uncontested) and 1 goal.
He got beat by Reid, in any language.
He got beat by Reid, in any language.
I remember a night match against St Kilda Ages ago, there was a young kid there, that was built fairly solidly for his age. His task was try to hold a gun of the competition in Tony Lockett. We had an undersized Crosisca that would be mauled by him in height alone, so this kid was our only hope. He got absolutely smashed badly by Lockett, I think he kicked close to ten goals that night.... Well it felt like it anyway! We traded him out, and from that moment on we all watched as he learnt the craft for another side, and became an all Australian Full Back. Any clues as to who I am talking about?........
Mal Michael.
I find it funny that Luke says that Leigh Brown is better!! Had we judged Leigh Brown as harshly on his games, when he was Reids age, he wouldn't have a career. Two sides have delisted him, and he is on his third chance. But we should trade Reid out, because he has nothing to offer. Not the best idea, believe me..
Sometimes when the ball comes into defence quickly, and catches a defender off gaurd, it can make them look mighty silly, with nothing to offer as far as being a great player is concerned. I think players that believe that because they get beaten have nothing to offer, rather than keep trying to improve, and learn from their mistakes, fall by the wayside. But if they believe that each game is a new opportunity, and keep their heads up, they can become anything. Supporters who say after one beating, or even up to 20 beatings, that that particular player is no good, would also be no good if they were an AFL player. You can't believe the negatives, that supporters think so easily, you have to keep up the confidence, and take every lesson as it is served up to be...a lesson.
People say I don't rate this player! and don't rate that player! say it as if it is a permanent prediction of how the player will map out for the rest of their career. One of the worst people for this habit, relates back to the first example of this message in a way. To make way for Mal Michael to be elevated from the rookie list, years and years ago, was a friend of mine, Marty Warry. Whilst working with him, he always said, I don't rate this player! I don't rate that player! Being a top young kid of his age group, and the fact that he played AFL, I always listened, as I thought he would be far more knowledgable than me on such a subject. But what I realised, is he was just as hit and miss with his predictions as I was.
One of the players he said he definately did not rate, and at the time, alot of fans didn't rate him, was Simon Prestigiacomo. Presti was seen as a liability in our defence for so long. Only quick in straight lines, can't turn and keep up with the forwards when they deviate off the line, and all the rest of it. It was that way, until we lost him through injury, then people started to fully appreciate what he does for us. He became a star through injury.
Sometimes, you don't know what you have got until it is gone. People say we lost a list of great players, yet these great players, Licuria, Holland, Clement, Wakelin, Burns and others. All had major baggings about their input into the sides successes at various times of their careers. When they played a good game, they needed to string a few together, when they did that, they still were not as good as someone else.
It hurts to lose, and except that the Saints players were better performed as ours was last night, but we have got an awesome side, and when they got their skates on, there was not a damn thing the Saints could do about it. They looked absolutely hopeless. Had we not got smashed by umpires poor calls, and everything seemingly falling into place for the Saints in the first half last night, and as a result getting 7 goals down, and had we kicked straight, we would of made Saints look stupid.
I reckon I might be over exagerating only a touch, to say that it wasn't until five minutes left of the second quarter, that the first center bounce didn't favour the Saints. After the first quarter I thought it was a definate advantage to one side, but in the second, they continued to bounce straight toward the Saints ruck. Jolly had to sprint miles past the center circle line to contest the bloody things. It was infuriating to watch. Bounces out of the circle were not called back. Now to Doppler from a convo the other day, whats the use of having a bloody rule, if the umpires refuse to use it. This is called 'interpretation', and the umpire was incorrect with there interpretation time and time and time again last night, as no ball up was called back for a second bounce, despite exceeding the circle.
Now blame our defence all you want, but if they get first use, time and time again, out of the centre, due to bad bounces, what bloody hope have our defenders got when they can't maintain touch with hands "ON" the back, and having midfielders easy first use out of the centre.
We were smashed by the umpires all over the field. Travis Clokes tackle forward of the wing, was holding the ball, against the Saints, not in the back as it was called. Bad interpretation. He was off to the side, and his arm brought the player forward, and onto the ground. Nathan Browns tackle, nothing in it, Harry O'Briens tackle, not alot in it. Time and time again, we were catching the Saints, as they tried to run the lines, and the umpires, who must of visited centerbet before they got to the ground, refused to call them for holding the ball, even though they had prior opportunity, and the rest of it.
Those umpires, if the AFL rules commitee where serious, will not be umpiring another game, they were terrible. As were the umpires that umpired the first half of the Brisbane v Western Bulldogs game. In both games, in the second half, the true better side somehow avoided the umpires stupidity, and smashed the sides they were playing in the second half. Only we were playing a better side, one that made the Grand Final last year.
We are all good. Brown and Reid didn't set the world on fire, but both will learn from this and be better for it.
Advice needs to be given to Nathan Brown. This advice is straight from my experiences as a defender, and that is, LEAN, LEAN AND LEAN. You have the bulk, lean on your player, all the time even when the ball is up the other end, wear your opponent out before the ball even comes near. Had Brown leant on Reiwoldt like Leigh Brown did to Johnathan Brown last year, and was persistent despite the sooking Roo did, he would not of been as fresh with the speed of his leads, he wouldn't of been as fresh in the legs, to seemingly easily slot the ball through from long distance. And punch the top of the forarm, ever single chance you get. Running side by side with a forward, every downward movement of your fist, should be punching into the forearm of your opponent. It hurts like buggery, and the leaning saps the energy like buggery. I went a whole season, playing against better players, fitter looking players than me, and finished the season, with 9 goals kicked against me, by my direct opponent. And that was against leaders of the league in goals. When they played us, they kicked none, after fives and fours in previous weeks. Not because I was good, but because I was big, and I leaned, and I scrapped, and I annoyed, and a wore them out. In the end they didn't want to go near the ball, because they knew they would truely earn it.
Obviously it is a higher level in AFL, but Brown is a lot fitter and stronger than me. If he had that arseh*le in him, he would be a gun defender. But so too would of Tristen Walker. It is not a friendly game, and unfortunately some players play it as it is.
Mal Michael.
I find it funny that Luke says that Leigh Brown is better!! Had we judged Leigh Brown as harshly on his games, when he was Reids age, he wouldn't have a career. Two sides have delisted him, and he is on his third chance. But we should trade Reid out, because he has nothing to offer. Not the best idea, believe me..
Sometimes when the ball comes into defence quickly, and catches a defender off gaurd, it can make them look mighty silly, with nothing to offer as far as being a great player is concerned. I think players that believe that because they get beaten have nothing to offer, rather than keep trying to improve, and learn from their mistakes, fall by the wayside. But if they believe that each game is a new opportunity, and keep their heads up, they can become anything. Supporters who say after one beating, or even up to 20 beatings, that that particular player is no good, would also be no good if they were an AFL player. You can't believe the negatives, that supporters think so easily, you have to keep up the confidence, and take every lesson as it is served up to be...a lesson.
People say I don't rate this player! and don't rate that player! say it as if it is a permanent prediction of how the player will map out for the rest of their career. One of the worst people for this habit, relates back to the first example of this message in a way. To make way for Mal Michael to be elevated from the rookie list, years and years ago, was a friend of mine, Marty Warry. Whilst working with him, he always said, I don't rate this player! I don't rate that player! Being a top young kid of his age group, and the fact that he played AFL, I always listened, as I thought he would be far more knowledgable than me on such a subject. But what I realised, is he was just as hit and miss with his predictions as I was.
One of the players he said he definately did not rate, and at the time, alot of fans didn't rate him, was Simon Prestigiacomo. Presti was seen as a liability in our defence for so long. Only quick in straight lines, can't turn and keep up with the forwards when they deviate off the line, and all the rest of it. It was that way, until we lost him through injury, then people started to fully appreciate what he does for us. He became a star through injury.
Sometimes, you don't know what you have got until it is gone. People say we lost a list of great players, yet these great players, Licuria, Holland, Clement, Wakelin, Burns and others. All had major baggings about their input into the sides successes at various times of their careers. When they played a good game, they needed to string a few together, when they did that, they still were not as good as someone else.
It hurts to lose, and except that the Saints players were better performed as ours was last night, but we have got an awesome side, and when they got their skates on, there was not a damn thing the Saints could do about it. They looked absolutely hopeless. Had we not got smashed by umpires poor calls, and everything seemingly falling into place for the Saints in the first half last night, and as a result getting 7 goals down, and had we kicked straight, we would of made Saints look stupid.
I reckon I might be over exagerating only a touch, to say that it wasn't until five minutes left of the second quarter, that the first center bounce didn't favour the Saints. After the first quarter I thought it was a definate advantage to one side, but in the second, they continued to bounce straight toward the Saints ruck. Jolly had to sprint miles past the center circle line to contest the bloody things. It was infuriating to watch. Bounces out of the circle were not called back. Now to Doppler from a convo the other day, whats the use of having a bloody rule, if the umpires refuse to use it. This is called 'interpretation', and the umpire was incorrect with there interpretation time and time and time again last night, as no ball up was called back for a second bounce, despite exceeding the circle.
Now blame our defence all you want, but if they get first use, time and time again, out of the centre, due to bad bounces, what bloody hope have our defenders got when they can't maintain touch with hands "ON" the back, and having midfielders easy first use out of the centre.
We were smashed by the umpires all over the field. Travis Clokes tackle forward of the wing, was holding the ball, against the Saints, not in the back as it was called. Bad interpretation. He was off to the side, and his arm brought the player forward, and onto the ground. Nathan Browns tackle, nothing in it, Harry O'Briens tackle, not alot in it. Time and time again, we were catching the Saints, as they tried to run the lines, and the umpires, who must of visited centerbet before they got to the ground, refused to call them for holding the ball, even though they had prior opportunity, and the rest of it.
Those umpires, if the AFL rules commitee where serious, will not be umpiring another game, they were terrible. As were the umpires that umpired the first half of the Brisbane v Western Bulldogs game. In both games, in the second half, the true better side somehow avoided the umpires stupidity, and smashed the sides they were playing in the second half. Only we were playing a better side, one that made the Grand Final last year.
We are all good. Brown and Reid didn't set the world on fire, but both will learn from this and be better for it.
Advice needs to be given to Nathan Brown. This advice is straight from my experiences as a defender, and that is, LEAN, LEAN AND LEAN. You have the bulk, lean on your player, all the time even when the ball is up the other end, wear your opponent out before the ball even comes near. Had Brown leant on Reiwoldt like Leigh Brown did to Johnathan Brown last year, and was persistent despite the sooking Roo did, he would not of been as fresh with the speed of his leads, he wouldn't of been as fresh in the legs, to seemingly easily slot the ball through from long distance. And punch the top of the forarm, ever single chance you get. Running side by side with a forward, every downward movement of your fist, should be punching into the forearm of your opponent. It hurts like buggery, and the leaning saps the energy like buggery. I went a whole season, playing against better players, fitter looking players than me, and finished the season, with 9 goals kicked against me, by my direct opponent. And that was against leaders of the league in goals. When they played us, they kicked none, after fives and fours in previous weeks. Not because I was good, but because I was big, and I leaned, and I scrapped, and I annoyed, and a wore them out. In the end they didn't want to go near the ball, because they knew they would truely earn it.
Obviously it is a higher level in AFL, but Brown is a lot fitter and stronger than me. If he had that arseh*le in him, he would be a gun defender. But so too would of Tristen Walker. It is not a friendly game, and unfortunately some players play it as it is.
Antz
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Kosi isn't that good a player anyway IMO.
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can the mods pls close this down.....what a load of dribble calling for a blokes head after one game. Seriously!!! Why dont you worry about Didak and Davis who are paid megabucks and cannot perform against elite teams.
Reid has shown nothing in his whole time at the club, how can you compare him to guys who got thrown into AFL football very early? I would love him to come good because we are going to have trouble with our spine in 2-3 years otherwise unless that kid we picked up from Adelaide turns out to be a decent CHB.
Matty keeps referring to the stats which are meaningless when you look at St Kilda's avenue to goal all night.
Every time the ball went near Reid he lost his footing or lost his opponent in traffic. Even the one effective spoil he put on he dived to the bloody ground. He has done it his whole career. Falls over constantly. When we first got him I put it down to being a featherweight. If he is really 98kg, what excuse does he have? He obviously has no center of gravity whatsoever.
Had he played on Roo the kid would have been mentally traumatized. The Sains barely went to Kosi hence the low stats. If we wen't into a final with Reid on Kosi i'd be crapping myself.
I really do hope he improves for all our sakes.
I agree, but from reports he was Reids' opponent so that is all he can do.
Alot of people talk him up but IMO, a worse performed player then Pebs and doesn't get anywhere near the bagging.
Good post DNine.
He has trimmed down and lost weight! Had no physical presence last night.
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Let's just give it a couple of years before we start writing off 20 year olds, especially when they are KPP getting use to a completely foreign role.
God knows what local league Dane Swan would be playing in if the 'sky is falling' clan had, had their say
God knows what local league Dane Swan would be playing in if the 'sky is falling' clan had, had their say
dickballsack
Club Legend
i'm just watching the replay.
reid played in the backline, he played on kosi and beat him, then played on stanley and beat him. between the 2 of them they kicked 0 goals and took 3 marks on him.
i honestly don't understand where people are coming from. he was solid.
reid played in the backline, he played on kosi and beat him, then played on stanley and beat him. between the 2 of them they kicked 0 goals and took 3 marks on him.
i honestly don't understand where people are coming from. he was solid.
Snag Breac
Brownlow Medallist
What a very interesting post.
I too thought the umpires were feeble, but it down to my failure to appreciate the finer points of play.
Ben Reid is 21 in April. Scarlett, Glass, Lake, Ben Rutten too & Presti for that matter were all poor at the same age, when it came to playing at AFL level. I'm not saying he'll become a gun but it's wrong to right off a KPP at such a young age.
I think Harry Taylor got drafted when he was 21 and now at age 23/24 he's looking more settled and comfortable.
so happy MM and match committee don't read this forum..do they?...lol
Ben Reids development is coming on just nicely...theyre being patient..developing him to fill a need in the future
I thought expectations on here have been too high....this year is not his make or break year...2011/2012 will be.
Reid was respectable without being outstanding last night.
On a side note...the change in last nights game was not Roo going off...IT WAS PRESTI COMING IN....ffs newspapers give him some respect.
Ben Reids development is coming on just nicely...theyre being patient..developing him to fill a need in the future
I thought expectations on here have been too high....this year is not his make or break year...2011/2012 will be.
Reid was respectable without being outstanding last night.
On a side note...the change in last nights game was not Roo going off...IT WAS PRESTI COMING IN....ffs newspapers give him some respect.
Ramere
Senior List
Are you for real, the kid should be tearing it up like Presti was at the same age..... oh hang on
Seriously Reid needs time to show if he can cut it down back at AFL level, if he can't then there are other options for him. Would have at least 2 seasons before he was at risk I would have thought.
As to the OP's call for him for him to be traded, if he's as bad you make out then who exactly is going to be willing to take him???
daics_35
Club Legend
Very happy with Reid performace as long as he shuts down key forwards which he did yesterday with kozi. Reid IMO looked way ahead of Brown last night and it was his first game for Collingwood in the backline great effort. And for Brown if he doesnt show anything for us this season i think we should shop him around to improve our list becuase he just looks to slow he cant keep up with anyone.
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