Best coach of all time?

[LouisCK]

Where do you rank them?

I personally give a bit of weight to coaches who have coached flags at multiple clubs, I also negate points for coaches who walked into "unloseable" situations (i.e. Matthews at Brisbane doesn't weigh as highly as Malthouse at Collingwood, for example) where their team had a significant advantage over the competition.

I'd say the big names most would agree on are:

R.D. Barrassi
N. Smith
J. McHale
L. Matthews
M. Blight
K. Sheedy
M. Malthouse
A. Jeans

But feel free to add others.

I'd have my rankings as such:

1. N. Smith - 6 flags as coach, assembled the most dominant team of all time.
2. J. McHale - 8 flags in a staggering 37 years at the one club.
3. Barrassi - 2 flags at Carlton, 2 flags at North, The Irish Experiment, set the Demons and Swans up to be contenders again after decades in the cellar.
4. K. Sheedy - 4 flags in 20 years at Essendon is a good effort
5. A. Jeans - 1 flag at St Kilda, their only flag I'll add, 3 with Hawthorn
6. L. Matthews - 4 flags, though 3 of them were with an unfairly advantaged Brisbane team
7. M. Malthouse - 3 flags and still going. Might jag another one before he's done. Was able tot ake the Pies from the cellar to back-to-back GF's very quickly
8. M. Blight -2 flags with Adelaide, came very close with Geelong. Seemed pretty terrible at lifting up shitty teams, the mark of a really excellent coach imo

 

[Bluelegs]

Norm had 6 flags as coach but they were within the space of ten years. I feel that is important.

 

[Kram]

Probably Malthouse if he manages to get Carlton up.

 

[LouisCK]

Norm had 6 flags as coach but they were within the space of ten years. I feel that is important.

This is why I've got him ahead of Jock.

Mind you, Jock also had 6 in a ten year span. Its just he stayed on for another 13 years.

 

[Bluelegs]

This is why I've got him ahead of Jock.

Mind you, Jock also had 6 in a ten year span. Its just he stayed on for another 13 years.

True, he also had the 4 in 4. Which is the greatest streak in the history of the game. Expect he'll get a statue close to Norm's at the MCG soon.

 

[LouisCK]

True, he also had the 4 in 4. Which is the greatest streak in the history of the game. Expect he'll get a statue close to Norm's at the MCG soon.

Well he deserves one. I've got no problem with people putting McHale first, its between Smith and McHale every time this argument is had.

And whilst 4 in 4 is great, I know at least one of those was a 'replay' (i.e. Pies finished first, lost the GF but were allowed to replay it? It's weird). Smith's 5 in 6 years is more impressive imo. But of course I'd say that.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Not sure who I'd vote as 'best' at this stage, but on your short list I would add:
Tom Hafey - 4 Premierships (1967, 1969, 1973, 1974)

 

[LouisCK]

Not sure who I'd vote as 'best' at this stage, but on your short list I would add:
Tom Hafey - 4 Premierships (1967, 1969, 1973, 1974)

Massive oversight on my behalf! Legend.

 

[fddf]

Peter Rohde

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Massive oversight on my behalf! Legend.

A living legend indeed, sir.

 

[LouisCK]

Also, Barrassi gets bonus points for the first sentence of this spray alone:

[youtube]ZmlVMnLZhRM[/youtube]

the last sentence is a cracker as well....

 

[worthy]

John Kennedy senior.
3 flags: 61, 71, 76

But his legacy is bigger than that, he transformed a club.

 

[Bluelegs]

Well he deserves one. I've got no problem with people putting McHale first, its between Smith and McHale every time this argument is had.

And whilst 4 in 4 is great, I know at least one of those was a 'replay' (i.e. Pies finished first, lost the GF but were allowed to replay it? It's weird). Smith's 5 in 6 years is more impressive imo. But of course I'd say that.

1929? That was a weird finals series with the argus system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_VFL_season#Finals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early..._amended_Argus_system_.281907.E2.80.931930.29

 

[gbatman]

David Parkin also has 4 Premierships and is credited as inventing a few aspects of the game, very successful coach. Should be in the list.

 

[gopies1981]

Where do you rank them?

I personally give a bit of weight to coaches who have coached flags at multiple clubs, I also negate points for coaches who walked into "unloseable" situations (i.e. Matthews at Brisbane doesn't weigh as highly as Malthouse at Collingwood, for example) where their team had a significant advantage over the competition.

I'd say the big names most would agree on are:

R.D. Barrassi
N. Smith
J. McHale
L. Matthews
M. Blight
K. Sheedy
M. Malthouse
A. Jeans

But feel free to add others.

I'd have my rankings as such:

1. N. Smith - 6 flags as coach, assembled the most dominant team of all time.
2. J. McHale - 8 flags in a staggering 37 years at the one club.
3. Barrassi - 2 flags at Carlton, 2 flags at North, The Irish Experiment, set the Demons and Swans up to be contenders again after decades in the cellar.
4. K. Sheedy - 4 flags in 20 years at Essendon is a good effort
5. A. Jeans - 1 flag at St Kilda, their only flag I'll add, 3 with Hawthorn
6. L. Matthews - 4 flags, though 3 of them were with an unfairly advantaged Brisbane team
7. M. Malthouse - 3 flags and still going. Might jag another one before he's done. Was able tot ake the Pies from the cellar to back-to-back GF's very quickly
8. M. Blight -2 flags with Adelaide, came very close with Geelong. Seemed pretty terrible at lifting up shitty teams, the mark of a really excellent coach imo

Where is David Parkin? He is a 4 time premiership coach 1 with the hawks in 1978 and 3 with Carlton 1981, 1982 and 1995. Your list is pretty good but in order I would have

1. Jock McHale
2. Norm Smith
3. Ron Barassi
4. Kevin Sheedy
5. Alan Jeans
6. Leigh Mathews
7. Tom Haffey
8. David Parkin
9. Mick Malthouse
10. Melcom Blight

 

[LouisCK]

John Kennedy senior.
3 flags: 61, 71, 76

But his legacy is bigger than that, he transformed a club.

Most of these guys did (with the notable exceptions of Blight and Matthews imo). Barrassi did it to four clubs.

 

[Final Siren]

Norm had 6 flags as coach but they were within the space of ten years. I feel that is important.

As a positive or a negative?

A coach might have a great bunch of cattle and extract multiple flags from them in a short period of time. Sheedy, on the other hand, effectively built three entirely distinct premiership teams.

 

[LouisCK]

As a positive or a negative?

A coach might have a great bunch of cattle and extract multiple flags from them in a short period of time. Sheedy, on the other hand, effectively built three entirely distinct premiership teams.

Sheedy also had the salary cap breach hanging over him though.

And I agree with your point, but McHale's run was similar, he won a lot of his falgs in the same era, then stayed on for 13 years without a flag.

 

[Bluelegs]

As a positive or a negative?

A coach might have a great bunch of cattle and extract multiple flags from them in a short period of time. Sheedy, on the other hand, effectively built three entirely distinct premiership teams.

Norm Smith put together and maintained one of if not the most dominant side in the history of the game, that is until Barrassi left and the ****-wit admin hung Norm out to dry. Sheedy definitely was able resurge Essendon again and again even if he couldn't maintain dominance in a shorter term like some of the other coaches. I'd say its two different types of greatness though.

 

[underthestars]

Allen Jeans.
Took st kilda to three grand finals (65,66, 71) Came back to coaching in 1981 and led the Hawks to seven consecutive grand finals. (technically off in 1988, but in reality was the man behind their 88 season and flag). So (four) Five flags and (nine) ten finals. And of course is the only coach to do the impossible and lead the saints to a flag, hence even without the hawks record, wins this comp!
I would add, the best coach can do it at more than one club - Jeans created two super teams from small clubs, the latter of which is possibly the best ever team.

 

[worthy]

Most of these guys did (with the notable exceptions of Blight and Matthews imo). Barrassi did it to four clubs.

Not suggesting he was the best, but his omission was a big oversight.

From Wiki:
In 1960, he took over as Hawthorn coach, and led the team to their first premiership in 1961. In 1963, he stepped down as coach, but Hawthorn's poor onfield performance over the next few years saw him recalled to the role in 1967. He coached Hawthorn to subsequent premierships in 1971 and 1976, when he again stepped down from the role.
In 1985, Kennedy became the coach of the North Melbourne Football Club, and coached them until 1989. In total he coached for 411 games, Won 236, Lost 170 and Drew 5. In all, Kennedy coached Hawthorn and North Melbourne to 5 Grand Finals with 3 Premiership wins.

 

[lamaros]

Sheedy also had the salary cap breach hanging over him though.

And I agree with your point, but McHale's run was similar, he won a lot of his falgs in the same era, then stayed on for 13 years without a flag.

So it was similar by being completely different, eh?

 

[Wallaby]

Jack Worrall. By miles. The first and still the best.

He was secretary of the Blues, but basically became the first-ever VFL coach. When he took over the Blues had finished 2nd last in the VFL in their first 5 seasons and then improved - to 3rd last. Worrall got them into 3rd in his first year (1903). Other clubs began to copy his coaching ideas.
Carlton won 3-in-a-row 1906-1908. The 1908 side lost one game. Worrall then had a blue with the players and committee and was sacked early in 1909. In 1910 he was the League umpires coach.

Essendon signed him in 1911, and won the flag. And won in 1912. So if you are keeping score, that's 5 premierships in 5 season's coaching - at 2 different clubs.

Essendon went downhill a bit after that, so Worrall quit after 1920. His only other coaching was as an assistant at Fitzroy for one season (1922) - they won the flag, of course.

He also played Test cricket for Australia. On of our greatest sportsmen, and almost forgotten.

 

[LouisCK]

So it was similar by being completely different, eh?

How is it different? The both won 6 flags in ten years, with largely the same core players making up the team (still a huge effort).

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Matthews. Anyone who can list a Collingwood premiership after 32 years, and three flags in a row for a Queensland team MUST be the greatest of all time.