Best Test team since the 70:

[reubski23]

the Cummins thread had a good contribution about the best team from the last 50 years

Warne, McGrath, Lille and Cummins are locked in from the bowlers

Gilchrist locked in as the keeper

Chappel, Smith and Ponting locked in

Leaves the openers and one middle order player.

I’d say Border as the middle order player but have no idea on the top two - obvious answers are Warner and Hayden but I think they’re both flat track bullies

 

[Cmarsh]

Border, Steve Waugh, Michael Clarke, Mike Hussey and Travis Head are all genuine contenders for the other middle order spot.

Some may argue Head doesn't have the body of work as the others but he is is a genuine game breaker.

There's also no real reason not to pick Langer ahead of Warner.

 

[PhatBoy]

Border, Steve Waugh, Michael Clarke, Mike Hussey and Travis Head are all genuine contenders for the other middle order spot.

Some may argue Head doesn't have the body of work as the others but he is is a genuine game breaker.

There's also no real reason not to pick Langer ahead of Warner.

Head has played some gun innings but let’s be realistic: take away the fact that one was in the final of a tournament that is still in its infancy and somewhat experimental - don’t get me wrong it was a fantastic knock - we are talking about:

- an innings at Adelaide where he could have been out 3-4 times against the West Indies side who while they DID have an attack who put up a fight, were not exactly chock full of stars

- an innings at Brisbane that was not a century against SA

- the Adelaide innings against a visiting Asian side. Probably the biggest tick from that one is that it came against Bumrah.

It’s a decent little body of work but it is still relatively small.

Damien Martyn who I think for most people wouldn’t be too close to this team, hit 4(?) centuries in series wins in Sri Lanka against Murali and possibly Herath (I can’t recall if he was in that side or not) and also the 2004 BGT win in India. Those knocks were huge and on opposition turf.

At any rate, none of them deserve a spot ahead of border

 

[Trojan90]

Border for me. Openers where it gets interesting.

How much emphasis do you put on away record. Would have to be Langer/Hayden/Taylor if so. Or is 2900 runs enough body of work for Katich/Khawaja? Both average 50+ as openers home and away. Think I’d go Langer/Taylor based on the value I put on runs in England.

 

[PhatBoy]

I’ll throw up another name:
David Boon.

Averaged 45 as an opener from 63 innings, averaged over 40 away from home, averaged over 40 in England, South Africa and India so could handle seam, swing, bounce and spin.

He also had countries where he didn’t fare so well: NZ and Sri Lanka oddly, and the west indies unsurprisingly though his final series there dragged that record down significantly when he was well past his best; in his other series there against Marshall, Walsh, Ambrose, and Patterson he managed nearly 300 runs including a century opening the batting at 34, pretty respectable given the opposition and conditions.

 

[cricketnut14]

the Cummins thread had a good contribution about the best team from the last 50 years

Warne, McGrath, Lille and Cummins are locked in from the bowlers

Gilchrist locked in as the keeper

Chappel, Smith and Ponting locked in

Leaves the openers and one middle order player.

I’d say Border as the middle order player but have no idea on the top two - obvious answers are Warner and Hayden but I think they’re both flat track bullies

nailed it haydos and warner for me as openers and i'm happy with s.waugh or border and the one missing out as 12th man.

 

[Rookie]

Damien Martyn who I think for most people wouldn’t be too close to this team, hit 4(?) centuries in series wins in Sri Lanka against Murali and possibly Herath (I can’t recall if he was in that side or not) and also the 2004 BGT win in India. Those knocks were huge and on opposition turf.

At any rate, none of them deserve a spot ahead of border

Martyn's results on the subcontinent are criminally underrated! I remember staying up to watch one of those knocks vs Sri Lanka live and thinking it was one of the best innings I'd seen from an Australian.

Langer vs Warner is an interesting one - I don't think there's any debate Warner was better at his peak, but Langer actually finished with a higher average. Which is surprising given Warner averaged close to 50 for most of his career.

Warner averaged 26 in England and 21 in India, vs Langer's 55 in England and 30 in India.

For me, Warner's record in India and England is a disqualifying factor.

 

[reubski23]

Head has played some gun innings but let’s be realistic: take away the fact that one was in the final of a tournament that is still in its infancy and somewhat experimental - don’t get me wrong it was a fantastic knock - we are talking about:

- an innings at Adelaide where he could have been out 3-4 times against the West Indies side who while they DID have an attack who put up a fight, were not exactly chock full of stars

- an innings at Brisbane that was not a century against SA

- the Adelaide innings against a visiting Asian side. Probably the biggest tick from that one is that it came against Bumrah.

It’s a decent little body of work but it is still relatively small.

Damien Martyn who I think for most people wouldn’t be too close to this team, hit 4(?) centuries in series wins in Sri Lanka against Murali and possibly Herath (I can’t recall if he was in that side or not) and also the 2004 BGT win in India. Those knocks were huge and on opposition turf.

At any rate, none of them deserve a spot ahead of border

I loved Damien Martyn - absolute beautiful batsmen to watch. That Indian series was his legacy couldn’t have won it without him - he dominated without Ponting in the side. But I think for consistency it has to be out of Steve Waugh and Alan Border and I think AB (noting he was largely before my time) to have the average he had when Australia didn’t dominate and we played most test series against the Windies with their amazing attacks deserves to make the team. Runner up: Steve Waugh. Honourable mention: Hussey, Martyn, Mark Waugh

Openers:

Hayden really hurt his legacy for me during the 2005 ashes not because he was out of form but how selfishly he and Langer batted in the oval test match to save his position in the side. Still pisses me off to this day.

Warner - played really well in Australia and South Africa outside of those two places he largely struggled.

Again though these two could dominate a test match from the outset.

Mark Taylor always have a soft spot for him - he was the captain when was 5 years old obsessed with Warney and cricket. Felt like he struggled with form a bit but I’m going to say like Border played better attacks than Hayden and Warner

Khawaja - had an outstanding 3 years as opener - played well everywhere but not long enough.

I am just really stumped on these openers. Probably have to go to Warner and Hayden but I don’t like it

 

[reubski23]

Martyn's results on the subcontinent are criminally underrated! I remember staying up to watch one of those knocks vs Sri Lanka live and thinking it was one of the best innings I'd seen from an Australian.

Langer vs Warner is an interesting one - I don't think there's any debate Warner was better at his peak, but Langer actually finished with a higher average. Which is surprising given Warner averaged close to 50 for most of his career.

Warner averaged 26 in England and 21 in India, vs Langer's 55 in England and 30 in India.

For me, Warner's record in India and England is a disqualifying factor.

Yep Warner’s average overseas outside of South Africa was really really average.

Langer - I don’t know. For some reason I never really warmed to him. Maybe because he was a battler but he more often than not did his job really well as an opener.

See my post above about Hayden - I do note he had a great series against India in 2001 but he struggled in England big time.

Maybe in 10 years Konstas will be our no brainer pick! I really hope so

 

[reubski23]

I’ll throw up another name:
David Boon.

Averaged 45 as an opener from 63 innings, averaged over 40 away from home, averaged over 40 in England, South Africa and India so could handle seam, swing, bounce and spin.

He also had countries where he didn’t fare so well: NZ and Sri Lanka oddly, and the west indies unsurprisingly though his final series there dragged that record down significantly when he was well past his best; in his other series there against Marshall, Walsh, Ambrose, and Patterson he managed nearly 300 runs including a century opening the batting at 34, pretty respectable given the opposition and conditions.

Did he move to first drop later in his career? I swear in all the highlights I see of early 90 cricket he is the first drop.

 

[PhatBoy]

Did he move to first drop later in his career? I swear in all the highlights I see of early 90 cricket he is the first drop.

Yeah.

He started in the middle order somewhere, shifted up to opener where he spent a long time with Geoff Marsh then Taylor came along and he dropped down to 3 and briefly he was the top batsman in the world while he was there. He opened a few more times once Marsh got the spear but it was more or less temporary until Slater came along: I think his last summer doing it was the series against the Windies where they won 2-1, he hit a century in Brisbane opening then by the time the Ashes rolled round Slater was in the side.

 

[Jascave]

My team:

1. David Warner
2. Mark Taylor
3. Greg Chappell
4. Allan Border (c)
5. Dean Jones
6. Steve Waugh
7. Adam Gilchrist (wk)
8. Shane Warne
9. Pat Cummins
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath
12. Doug Walters

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Matthew Hayden
Mark Taylor (could sub in Warner at home; but for an overall pick, mister aircon)
Ricky Ponting
Greg Chappell
Steve Smith
Allan Border (c) (could be Steve Waugh, in which case Taylor becomes captain)
Adam Gilchrist (really torn here, I am very much a "pick the best keeper to keep", which is Healy by a solid margin, but Gilchrist's batting is so far above that in this case I reluctantly give him the nod)
Shane Warne (Stuart MacGill back-up)
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath
Bruce Reid (I now most won't pick him. If he hadn't been single-handedly responsible for global sticky-tape, duct tape, wood glue and spinal implant shortages, his ability would have him here without question. Cummins or Gillespie to cover for inevitable injury by the second game. Terry Alderman comes in as an England specialist, and might also bat behind McGrath. In India and Sri Lanka I guess Tim May over Nathan Lyon and Stuart MacGill to partner Warne.)

Number five is the hardest spot in this line up. I've gone with Smith, but Clarke and Hussey were both in and out a few times. Hussey would also be a good option at six.

Opening is the weak point. Even on Hayden, it a drop below the middle and the bowling.

Chappell, Border and Smith can provide a few relief overs if necessary. And that is quite the slips cordon.

 

[eth-dog]

Going mostly on stats:

1. Justin Langer
2. Matthew Hayden
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Greg Chappell
5. Steve Waugh
6. Allan Border
7. Adam Gilchrist (+)
8. Patrick Cummins
9. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath

 

[Cmarsh]

I'll have a go at a second XI

Warner
Khawaja
Boon
Clarke
Hussey
Head
Healy
Starc
Gillespie
Hazelwood
Lyon

 

[Iceman!]

Going mostly on stats:

1. Justin Langer
2. Matthew Hayden
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Greg Chappell
5. Steve Waugh
6. Allan Border
7. Adam Gilchrist (+)
8. Patrick Cummins
9. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath

What statistical basis for no Smith? Especially Chappell over him?

Almost 3k less runs at a lower average, 10 less 100's.

 

[eth-dog]

What statistical basis for no Smith? Especially Chappell over him?

Almost 3k less runs at a lower average, 10 less 100's.

Smith isn't competing with Chappell. He's competing with Waugh and Border. He could edge both out honestly but I want to see how he finishes up first.

Chappell and Border were before my time so it's a little bit of talk from people who actually saw them and a little bit stats. He's also playing in an era with covered wickets and by and large better batting wickets whilst playing more tests too.

 

[reubski23]

I feel like Hussey could have been one of the great openers. But I’m pretty sure only played that role in his first couple of tests for us