macca69 said:
will make for some interesting reading.
i didnt ever finish that west coast one did i.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
BF Medal - R14 - Hawthorn vs West Coast Eagles
- Thread starter Lonie_from_50
- Start date
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will make for some interesting reading.
i didnt ever finish that west coast one did i.
WEST COAST EAGLES
Overall a very scarey list when u look at what they have compiled over the last 4-5 years when they bottomed out at the end of 2000. Recruiting Managers need a medal for what they have achieved.
DEFENCE
KEY DEFENDERS
ELITE(Reserved for the top 10 in the league)
Nup
GOOD
Hunter-what a break out year last year for hunter, was really in contention for all-australian and cases could be made as to why he should have made it. 25 in june this year so should really be in the prime of his career over the next 3-4 years. Think he will end up continuing his career down back, as i feel its just his natural position.....but with the eagles worrys up forward, might be spending the rest of his career pinch hitting between the 2.
Glass-really combined well with hunter last year to fill the 2 key defencive posts. 25 this year. not the most talented footabller going around, but a solid-quick-close checking defender that has first dibs on full back this year.
AVERAGE
Waters-this kid is an absolute gem , there isnt really a position on the ground that waters couldn't play(apart from the ruck)
Lynch-very good solid defender, keep him outa the forward line where he has some of the worst hands in the AFL. mean mean bastard, who would have to have a real on-feild presence. question his decison making sometimes and his foot skills but a very handy back up KP player in defence. thats the strength of wests coast list. this guy would be starting down back for most sides.
Staker-love this guy, just wish he would take the next step. not really a key position defender but could be called upon if injurys hit the playing list. would love to see this guy given more of a licence to run and create.......namely on a wing.
BORDERLINE AFL or WORSE
Graham-i like the look of this guy, from the littel i have seen, will be interesting to see where he progresses from last year. 23 this year.
Gasper-not sold on this guy, had a horror run with injury over his career. must be rated by the coaching staff. they offered 1 year contract and he demanded a 2 year and got it. not a bad result for travis seeing as though he has played minimal games over the last 3 years.
2 EARLY TO TELL
Spanger-will he be able to hold down a key position in the future????? at 193 and with good pace, he might be better as the 3rd tall down back.
WILDCARD
McDougall-big question marks over his shoulders-?? for u, could dougs hold down chb for west coast.....not as crazy as it sounds.
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SMALL DEFENDERS & 3RD TALLS
ELITE
Wirrpunda-still seems to miss a few games a year with soft tissue niggles, but this guy is a gem. when coaches plan some of their game plan around wirra not getting the footy. thats a pretty good mark of respect.
27 this year, so still should have around 4-5 years left, body willing. great kick - ur quarter back of ur defence
GOOD
Stenglein-great midfielder i know, great tagger and clearence guy. BUT can see him spending more time down here resting on dangerous forwards and gun midfielders. u just have so many midfielders, that by playing him down here it may give more oppotunitys to players like butler , waters, selwood, morton, hurn in the future.
AVERAGE
Staker- see above, would love to see him playing on a wing, would provide huge headaches for coaches trying to match him up. used in a brett burton type role that craig uses him at adelaide. great overhead, very good pace and seems to read the play very well.............needs to take steps this year and cement his place in the starting 18. maybe trade bait come next year when west coast go chasing an out of contract contested marking forward. he is also a victoria boy, so home might be calling at 22 next year. think u would get something good for him also.
Nickoski-huge potenial to move up my rankings, great pick up by west coast of the rookie list. love players that use the football well by foot. get sick of watching hawks players turn the f@@@@ footy over. 23 this year so time to shine and cement the regular position in the starting 18. still have concerns on how much of the footy he actually gets himself, but teams need all types. another player that could be used in a quarter back role across half back, with the footy continually going through him.
Waters-break out year coming up 4 waters if he stays fit, in what position is anyones guess.
Chick-30 in febuary, so u would expect that he is really on the wrong side of the hill. great year last year, have all the admiration 4 chickie there is. single handedly won a final by himself a few years ago in 2001 against sydney at telstra dome. might be pushed a little forward this year to help increase the forward line pressure, but he isnt getting any quicker so the backline-tagger the way to go 4 mine.
BORDERLINE AFL or WORSE
Wooden-there is nothing wrong with this guy, he gives 110% every time he gets game time. but in reality he is a good honest toiler at best, and will struggle big time to get a game in your best 25 let alone 22. very handy back up though, gotta give him credit, never seen him take a backward step.
B.Jones-probably a bit harsh on young brett here but this probably will be D-DAY season for him to make his mark. its just so bloody hard with the depth of west coasts list. really think he has something to offer, played some pretty solid games i have seen..........but is there a spot other than running around in the WAFL, not a bad scenario to have if u a west coast supporter
Banfield-32 this year, held place last year pretty solidly. might be a bit harder this year with a few players breathing down his neck. love his attack on the footy and rarely beaten down back. be surprised if he isnt put under enormous pressure this year by the talented kids but worsfold should see him hold his place in the starting 18.
2 EARLY TO TELL
Spanger-really to early to tell...........2008 at least i reckon
WILDCARD
Hurn-reckon u have the steal of the draft, although woulda been better of going to a club that doesnt play on massive ovals. leg speed might be a worry. dont get me wrong this kid will be a 200+ game player, i just think subiaco is the kindest ground 4 hurn to ply his trade. already proven senior footballer, so i'm guessing will play quality time next year in the seniors.........he will demand it i reckon. everybody saying 5-10.............im guessing 15-20 IF his body is right to go.
pre-season prediction
gotta laugh at my comments on lynch after he starred agaisnt my boys on saturday
Overall a very scarey list when u look at what they have compiled over the last 4-5 years when they bottomed out at the end of 2000. Recruiting Managers need a medal for what they have achieved.
DEFENCE
KEY DEFENDERS
ELITE(Reserved for the top 10 in the league)
Nup
GOOD
Hunter-what a break out year last year for hunter, was really in contention for all-australian and cases could be made as to why he should have made it. 25 in june this year so should really be in the prime of his career over the next 3-4 years. Think he will end up continuing his career down back, as i feel its just his natural position.....but with the eagles worrys up forward, might be spending the rest of his career pinch hitting between the 2.
Glass-really combined well with hunter last year to fill the 2 key defencive posts. 25 this year. not the most talented footabller going around, but a solid-quick-close checking defender that has first dibs on full back this year.
AVERAGE
Waters-this kid is an absolute gem , there isnt really a position on the ground that waters couldn't play(apart from the ruck)
Lynch-very good solid defender, keep him outa the forward line where he has some of the worst hands in the AFL. mean mean bastard, who would have to have a real on-feild presence. question his decison making sometimes and his foot skills but a very handy back up KP player in defence. thats the strength of wests coast list. this guy would be starting down back for most sides.
Staker-love this guy, just wish he would take the next step. not really a key position defender but could be called upon if injurys hit the playing list. would love to see this guy given more of a licence to run and create.......namely on a wing.
BORDERLINE AFL or WORSE
Graham-i like the look of this guy, from the littel i have seen, will be interesting to see where he progresses from last year. 23 this year.
Gasper-not sold on this guy, had a horror run with injury over his career. must be rated by the coaching staff. they offered 1 year contract and he demanded a 2 year and got it. not a bad result for travis seeing as though he has played minimal games over the last 3 years.
2 EARLY TO TELL
Spanger-will he be able to hold down a key position in the future????? at 193 and with good pace, he might be better as the 3rd tall down back.
WILDCARD
McDougall-big question marks over his shoulders-?? for u, could dougs hold down chb for west coast.....not as crazy as it sounds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
SMALL DEFENDERS & 3RD TALLS
ELITE
Wirrpunda-still seems to miss a few games a year with soft tissue niggles, but this guy is a gem. when coaches plan some of their game plan around wirra not getting the footy. thats a pretty good mark of respect.
27 this year, so still should have around 4-5 years left, body willing. great kick - ur quarter back of ur defence
GOOD
Stenglein-great midfielder i know, great tagger and clearence guy. BUT can see him spending more time down here resting on dangerous forwards and gun midfielders. u just have so many midfielders, that by playing him down here it may give more oppotunitys to players like butler , waters, selwood, morton, hurn in the future.
AVERAGE
Staker- see above, would love to see him playing on a wing, would provide huge headaches for coaches trying to match him up. used in a brett burton type role that craig uses him at adelaide. great overhead, very good pace and seems to read the play very well.............needs to take steps this year and cement his place in the starting 18. maybe trade bait come next year when west coast go chasing an out of contract contested marking forward. he is also a victoria boy, so home might be calling at 22 next year. think u would get something good for him also.
Nickoski-huge potenial to move up my rankings, great pick up by west coast of the rookie list. love players that use the football well by foot. get sick of watching hawks players turn the f@@@@ footy over. 23 this year so time to shine and cement the regular position in the starting 18. still have concerns on how much of the footy he actually gets himself, but teams need all types. another player that could be used in a quarter back role across half back, with the footy continually going through him.
Waters-break out year coming up 4 waters if he stays fit, in what position is anyones guess.
Chick-30 in febuary, so u would expect that he is really on the wrong side of the hill. great year last year, have all the admiration 4 chickie there is. single handedly won a final by himself a few years ago in 2001 against sydney at telstra dome. might be pushed a little forward this year to help increase the forward line pressure, but he isnt getting any quicker so the backline-tagger the way to go 4 mine.
BORDERLINE AFL or WORSE
Wooden-there is nothing wrong with this guy, he gives 110% every time he gets game time. but in reality he is a good honest toiler at best, and will struggle big time to get a game in your best 25 let alone 22. very handy back up though, gotta give him credit, never seen him take a backward step.
B.Jones-probably a bit harsh on young brett here but this probably will be D-DAY season for him to make his mark. its just so bloody hard with the depth of west coasts list. really think he has something to offer, played some pretty solid games i have seen..........but is there a spot other than running around in the WAFL, not a bad scenario to have if u a west coast supporter
Banfield-32 this year, held place last year pretty solidly. might be a bit harder this year with a few players breathing down his neck. love his attack on the footy and rarely beaten down back. be surprised if he isnt put under enormous pressure this year by the talented kids but worsfold should see him hold his place in the starting 18.
2 EARLY TO TELL
Spanger-really to early to tell...........2008 at least i reckon
WILDCARD
Hurn-reckon u have the steal of the draft, although woulda been better of going to a club that doesnt play on massive ovals. leg speed might be a worry. dont get me wrong this kid will be a 200+ game player, i just think subiaco is the kindest ground 4 hurn to ply his trade. already proven senior footballer, so i'm guessing will play quality time next year in the seniors.........he will demand it i reckon. everybody saying 5-10.............im guessing 15-20 IF his body is right to go.
pre-season prediction
gotta laugh at my comments on lynch after he starred agaisnt my boys on saturday
yeh, comments about Lynch are pretty funny. Interesting quesrioes over Hurn's pace again. Don't have to remind u already he got 3.04 seconds over 20m . Good read too. Can't really find a fault there though (and i was pretty thorough ), good job 
. Good read too. Can't really find a fault there though (and i was pretty thorough ), good job
HAWTHORN
Max Bailey - I personally haven't seen him play, but a few guys I know from WA have seen him play, and they really rate him. IMO he will easily overtake Campbell and Taylor as the number 2 ruckmen, and once spider retires, then he will become your number one ruckman, and we be a very good player. He and McEntee, could be a formidable duo in a few years time.
Future – Will spend this year developing in the 2’s, but will be 150+ game ruckman (based on what people have told me)
Matthew Ball – I am quite surprised he wasn’t delisted last year, he is a good VFL, but is not up to it at AFL level, he might have had one year left on his contract, which saved him, but barring a very good year from him, he will be delisted at the end of this season. Has ok skills, and seems to be quite a smart footy player, but that’s about the extent if his ability, Clarke is a much better option.
Future – Delisted
John Barker – Did pretty well, when he wasn’t injured, provided a genuine target up forward, you seem to play better with him in the team, just gives you that extra dimension and straightens you up, rather than going wide to Franklin, all the time. He also takes the best defender, which frees up Franklin and Dixon. Don’t expect too much from him, he is like Gaspar for West Coast (except Gaspar is younger), whatever he contributes to the team is a bonus, I like him as a player, but will get delisted at seasons end, which will be a shame , as he has given the club so much.
Future – Delisted, unless he overcomes his injury troubles.
Chance Bateman – One of my favourite Hawks players (he is in my dream team), was a shame about his injury last year, but should be back to his best in ’06. I love players who do the 1%’ers, and he does them exceptionally well, his chases, tackles and his work off the ball in phenomenal. He is not just a defensive player though, he is very capable when he has the ball, loves to take a bounce and run the lines. He is also a very tough nut, him an Mitchell at the centre bounce, will get you many clearances in the years to come. If he stays fit, will finish top 3 or 4, in your B&F.
Grant Birchall – I had this guy in my top 5 players in my personal rankings of the draftees. He just has so much upside, at AFL level, could play HBF, CHB and/or WING, is also a very smart footballer, from what I have seen of him, he knows where to run and just keeps running, his disposal is generally pretty good, but has let him down on occasions. He is the perfect player, to compliment Bateman and Mitchell, could play 10+ games this year.
Future – Will play a few games this year, and will impress in the NAB cup. There is a chance he may not develop, give him time and I suspect he will. Will play 200+ games if he fulfils his potential.
Tim Boyle – I have seen him play once, I think it was against port this year and he looked the goods, apparently has had a lot of injury trouble, but should he get over his injuries he could be your much needed marking forward (its needed because continually going to Williams became very predictable), can’t say too much else, apart from his excellent marking ability. Should be your first choice at FF or CHF, if he is fully fit, although he may need a bit more muscle to make an impact at AFL level.
Future – from what I have seen, will be a very good key forward, should make it at AFL level. Should play at least 150 games, could easily be more.
Luke Brennan – I don’t rate him much at all, he is another that is lucky to be on an AFL list. He is a KPP in a midfielders body, he reminds me a lot of Rowan Jones at the eagles. He is a poor kick, is an in-between height, but was able to play KP at junior level. They both give you what they have got in terms of talent, but if you look at the talent on the rest of the list, he should not be playing games, unless there are a lot of injuries. He is not the worst player, but will always be an average player, and if you guys want to be a force in the next few years, as you should with the talent on your list, then he should go. He may be a handy squad player though.
Future – Delisted after 1 maybe 2 years if he is lucky.
Campbell Brown – Really like this kid, but is another who has been unlucky with injury. IMO should be in your starting 18 when fit, he is very hard at the ball, which is good and also has the skill, to use it well, those two traits often don’t go together. Should be a very good HBF in years to come.
Future – will be a more than handy HBF in the future, won’t be a superstar, but he is one you can count on to do a job week in, week out. 150+ games for the Hawks.
Robert Campbell – Isn’t a great ruckman, and injuries haven’t helped that. Just doesn’t have what it takes at AFL level. This year will be his last year to show what he can do. He will get enough opportunities to impress, but with McEntee and Bailey in the wings, he is on borrowed time. May be on the list next year, depending on what Spider does and how Bailey and McEntee show in the VFL.
Future – Not up to it at AFL, will be delisted, but how long he stays on an AFL list, will be determined by what happens to the other ruckmen in the side.
Tim Clarke – Love this bloke. Another player in my dream team, he is very underrated, even by many Hawks fans. People tend to judge forward pockets, on how many goals they kick, but Clarke isn’t a natural forward, he is a tagger playing there to curb the influence of an attacking backpocket, like Wirra, Chris Johnson etc. Having said that he still almost kicks enough goals as a FP, to just play as a pure goalsneak, but although I don’t rate Clarkson too much as a coach, he seems to have found a perfect role for him. There are more talented players on the list, but not many are as smart and dedicated as Clarke, probably won’t improve too much in ’06, but if he plays how he did in ’05 he will be more than handy.
Future – IMO he is an essential component to the forward line. I think AC rates him, but he may pick someone more talented then Clarke, like a Miller or someone, but that would be his loss, Clarke should be one of the first picked each week, should play 200+ games.
Shane Crawford (vet) – What can I say, is a class act, unfortunately won’t be around long enough to experience some of the Hawks inevitable success, but has still got a key role in making sure they get there. He will help the youngsters improve and should stay involved with after he retires, although a media career beckons.
Future – Could squeeze a couple of season out of him, would definitely be beneficial for the youngsters of the club.
Trent Croad – When he first arrived on the scene at the Hawks, I had my doubt about him, as I am not a fan of clubs picking athletes over footballers. But he looks a very good pickup now. Apparently he is very dedicated, and he a KPP who can play very well at both ends of the ground, these players are gems. He has definitely improved his football nous, and it has thoroughly shown that in his performances.
Future – 250+ gamer for the club.
Zac Dawson – Saw him play one very good game, against the tigers, and one shocker against the swans. Based on those performances he is not AFL ready yet and is definitely a project player, but with your lack of key defenders, may have to play before his is fully ready. This could assist his development, or hinder his development, have seen it go both ways when someone is played too early. I am still not sure he will make it, needs to bulk up a lot, jury is still out on him.
Ben Dixon – Is a top bloke, but is IMO nearing the end of his career. Very inconsistent performer, but usually an accurate set-shot. With the young key forwards developing nicely, he will see limited game time in ’06.
Future – ’06 will be his last year at the hawks, unless there are a few injuries to key forwards and he impresses.
Beau Dowler – Another top bloke, I did a pre-season with him down at the Chargers last year, and you won’t find a nicer bloke, is a top cricketer too, but that is irrelevant. If he fully overcomes his injury he could get some game time this year, but they should not take any unnecessary risks with him. Will slot in nicely as the 3rd tall on a HFF, and play like a secondary CHF. Just keeps presenting, is quick and agile for a bloke his size, has very good hands below his knees, as well as marking, is also quite a smart footballer, knows when to lead, but often leads to wide into a non-threatening position. His second efforts, can let him down, but apparently he improved on his 2nd efforts in the second half of the year. Is a very similar player to Ash Hansen, who also came from the Chargers, although he is a much better contested mark.
Future – Will play over 200 games.
Xavier Ellis - Hawthorn’s first pick in the draft, but in my books he is behind Dowler, Birchall and Muston, can’t compare him to Bailey, but from what I have seen of Ellis, and from what I have heard of Bailey, Bailey could well be the better player. In the games I saw him; he didn’t look too quick and looked pretty soft. But he is a good height for a midfielder, is a good mark, and is quite clever. Everyone says his disposal is excellent, but was only better than average IMO, rarely kicks a floater, but can often miss an easy target under pressure. Will play for school for most of the year (I will try and clean him up), but wouldn’t have been picked for the Hawks anyway, he needs to pack on the pounds.
Future – Not sold that he will make it, I can see him not develop too well at the Hawks and then another club banking on his potential ala Fiora. Should reach 100 games in a worst case scenario, best case scenario, could play 300, but I still have my doubts and say around 150 games, maybe not all of them at the Hawks.
Peter Everitt – AA ruckman, has a couple of years left, although has expressed interest to join former teamate Barry Hall at the Swans. Not much to add, is a great player.
Future – 2 maybe 3 years left not necessarily at the Hawks.Brent Guerra – He is an average player at best, has some talent, but I don’t think Clarkson will bring out his best, which would be required to replace Clarke. I will be very disappointed if he replaces Clarke, he is not a smart footballer, just likes to dish out the hard stuff, the Hawks to me do have a soft forwardline a lot of the time, but he should really come off the bench and be an impact player, rather than a forward pocket, who gets less than 5 possessions a game.
Luke Hodge – Is crap, Judd is much better! (just thought I would say that so we had something to disagree on).
Danny Jacobs – I have a few mates who support Essendon, who have always thought he was crap, I just can’t really see why. Has excellent disposal, but struggles when played at FB, IMO he is more suited to a 3rd tall than can zone off, but he could go alright at CHB, if given enough opportunity. His rating may go down this year, as Hay is gone, so he play have to play FB, which he is not suited to, if he plays as the 3rd tall, expect a good solid season, he should also be given license to run the ball out of defence, because he has great disposal by foot.
Future – really depends what role Clarkson has in store for him, if he plays as the third tall, he is good enough to play there fir another 8 or so years, but if due to the Hay departure, he plays FB, then he may be gone in 1 or 2 years.
Rick Ladson – Is a very inconsistent performer, this may have to do with his light frame, but I thick he is worth persevering with, usually has good skills by foot, but they can also let him down under pressure. Give him a couple of kilo’s and a full season on the wing, or even a HBF (but half your side are HBF’ers), he may come good. Has the ability to succeed at AFL level, I think even if he doesn’t have a great year I would give him another one, as he should stay on the list ahead of Ries, Barker, Ball, Campbell, Dixon etc. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hawks lost patience with him.
Future – could go either way, but I will say he will have a good enough year to stay on the list, then have another 2 average inconsistent years and then get delisted, but could be on the list a lot longer or even a lot shorter amount of time than my estimate. Very 50/50 as to whether he will make it at this stage.
Jordan Lewis – Can’t say too much you don’t already know, I had my doubts about him being such an early pick, pick 7 wasn’t he?, but has proved me wrong and has had a very good first year, but the question is how much improvement has he got in him, could be a lot but could be quite little.
Future – 250+ game player for the Hawks, I think he will continually improve.
Matt Little – Unseen
Harry Miller – Jury is still out on Miller, he is very talented, but he can look lethargic at times. Funny that Clarkson seemed to play him much further up the ground than I would, he looks your best genuine forward pocket crumbing forward. He is prone to clangers, but they won’t do much damage if they are done in the forward pocket rather than on a wing.
Future – looks promising, but ’06 is a make or break year, should be played in a FP, may not reach 100 games, but has the talent to play 200+. I don’t think Clarkson with get the best out of him, and he may play his career out in the VFL. But if Clarkson does get him to use his talent, he could be a 35+ goal a season FP, for many years to come.
Sam Mitchell – What can I say, another Hawk in my dream team, was IMO your most signifact loss to injury last year, would say he is pretty close to the best clearance player in the comp. Will be a champion, not much to add really, just a class act.
Future – has had a few injury troubles so I doubt he will play 300 games, but should get to 250 games, no worries.
Thomas Murphy - Unseen
Beau Muston – I saw him play once and hey was exceptional, doesn’t seem to me too many players like him in the AFL atm. He reminds me a bit of a James Hird, on that one game I saw him play, thre is probably a better comparison, but there was something about him. Reads the play exceptionally well, like he has a 6th sense of where the ball will go, which is maybe what reminds me of Hird, is good overhead like Hird too, is also able to play at HF and kick goals like Hird. If he gets over his injury he could be anything.
Michael Osborne – Another player that will need to show something in his next year or two. Plays good footy here and there, but tends to go missing in games. He doesn’t get the ball enough, but when he does, he uses it well.
Future - Worth persevering with for another year at least. May come good, may not, I am leaning towards the not. Will be delisted at the end of the ’07 season.
Nick Ries – Is an ex Wesley-boy, which means I have a lot of time for him, as I am at Wesley now (and Schwabby is our coach). But he is slow with poor skills, makes silly errors at times too. Although you cant fault his endeavour, his is an honest battler who’s best isn’t good enough.
Future - should be delisted at seasons end.
Jarryd Roughead – I think he plays better footy up forward, but with Hay gone he will probably be first choice FB. AC is grooming him as a defender, as there are a few young key forwards on the list ATM. Will have a few bags kicked on him this year, as he is young, but will come good, and I would like to see him play up forward once your backline worries are sorted.
Future – He will have an excellent career at the Hawks, 250+ games.
Brad Sewell – is a promising tagger, can shut down players, while getting the pill himself. Might be more suited to HB/BP, with the Hawks improving midfield, but as long as he is in the side you can always have him as a tagging option if an opposition midfielder is getting a lot of the pil.
Future – how many games he gets will depend on the form of the youngsters, should play round 1, but could find himself in and out of the side if he doesn’t perform. Should be a handy squad player in years to come.
Joel Smith – Seemed to struggle in the role that he has played so well in over the years as a rebounding HB. Looked pretty good when he went into the middle, but when moved into defence sometimes looked a bit lacklustre. May be an option at FB, if the FF isn’t too big, but I would be tempted to play him on the wing in his last couple of years ala Glen Archer this year.
Future – The Hawks need some leadership from him, if he doesn’t provide that, this may be his last year, is getting on a bit, and another year like last year may see him starved of opportunities.
Simon Taylor – See Campbell.
Josh Thurgood – Hawks fans seem to like him, but I am not sold on him yet, is extremely light, shows courage and usually a good decision maker. I still have my doubts, however that he will make it at AFL level. He is not tall enough to play as a KPP at AFL level, and isn’t agile enough to be a midfielder. I think he, like Jacobs can only play as a 3rd tall. I don’t think there is room in the same backline for him and Jacobs, and I think Jacobs is the better player.
Future – AC likes him I don’t, I would say he will play no more than 100 games, but Clarkson may choose him above Jacobs, so he might play 150 games.
Travis Tuck – Haven’t seen enough to really comment on. Looks ok, nothing special though.
Richie Vandenberg – Had a poor year last year, but apparantly was carrying a back injury, not sure if I believe that though. He is another honest goer tries his heart out, but isn’t good enough, if he wasn’t the captain, might have been dropped a few times last year, but like Primus had immunity because he was the captain. Has poor disposal and decision making skills under pressure.
Future – may have one last year as captain, Hodgey should take it off him soon, then may struggle to get a game if the youngsters continue their improvement.
Mark Williams – Played very well as the only forward target, but next year, there should be more tall timber in the forward line, so he will get less opportunity.
Future - Having said that, can still kick 40+ goals a year from here on in. Although for someone of his height I would like to see him work on his skills below his knees, but if he plays as a leading forward pocket, like I said could kick 40+, but if he improved his ability to crumb off a pack (which is hard to teach) he could kick 50+ goals in ’06.
Clinton Young – really impressed me last year, needs to bulk up, but has good pace and skills, and is not afraid the run the lines and take players on, he looked very good against West Coast, was close to your best player that game.
Future – With a full pre-season and few kilo’s under his belt, he could be a very good player in ’06, should play the whole year on a wing and show the football world what he can do.
My Hawks Line-up (best available)
B: Jacobs Roughead Sewell
HB: Brown Croad Hodge
C: Young Lewis Bateman
HF: Guerra Franklin Clarke
FF: Williams Boyle Miller
Ruck: Everitt Mitchell Crawford
Int – Vandenberg, Ladson, Campbell, Smith
I feel I am missing someone, but that is may take on how you should line up come round 1. Maybe Murphy and Little should be in the side but I haven’t seen them play.
That’s assuming Ellis, Dowler, Muston and Barker are unavailable.
There is still a fair bit of deadwood on your list, but a lot of talent also, I expect another bottom 4 finish this year, in 2007, you should be finished around 10th, then by 2008, top 6 maybe even top 4 should be a must. I think you have the talent to make the top 2 by 2009, I am not sure Clarkson is the right man to get you there.
Before Hawks fans hop into me, this was written at the start of the year. Must have had a lot of free times after exams last year, lol.
Max Bailey - I personally haven't seen him play, but a few guys I know from WA have seen him play, and they really rate him. IMO he will easily overtake Campbell and Taylor as the number 2 ruckmen, and once spider retires, then he will become your number one ruckman, and we be a very good player. He and McEntee, could be a formidable duo in a few years time.
Future – Will spend this year developing in the 2’s, but will be 150+ game ruckman (based on what people have told me)
Matthew Ball – I am quite surprised he wasn’t delisted last year, he is a good VFL, but is not up to it at AFL level, he might have had one year left on his contract, which saved him, but barring a very good year from him, he will be delisted at the end of this season. Has ok skills, and seems to be quite a smart footy player, but that’s about the extent if his ability, Clarke is a much better option.
Future – Delisted
John Barker – Did pretty well, when he wasn’t injured, provided a genuine target up forward, you seem to play better with him in the team, just gives you that extra dimension and straightens you up, rather than going wide to Franklin, all the time. He also takes the best defender, which frees up Franklin and Dixon. Don’t expect too much from him, he is like Gaspar for West Coast (except Gaspar is younger), whatever he contributes to the team is a bonus, I like him as a player, but will get delisted at seasons end, which will be a shame , as he has given the club so much.
Future – Delisted, unless he overcomes his injury troubles.
Chance Bateman – One of my favourite Hawks players (he is in my dream team), was a shame about his injury last year, but should be back to his best in ’06. I love players who do the 1%’ers, and he does them exceptionally well, his chases, tackles and his work off the ball in phenomenal. He is not just a defensive player though, he is very capable when he has the ball, loves to take a bounce and run the lines. He is also a very tough nut, him an Mitchell at the centre bounce, will get you many clearances in the years to come. If he stays fit, will finish top 3 or 4, in your B&F.
Grant Birchall – I had this guy in my top 5 players in my personal rankings of the draftees. He just has so much upside, at AFL level, could play HBF, CHB and/or WING, is also a very smart footballer, from what I have seen of him, he knows where to run and just keeps running, his disposal is generally pretty good, but has let him down on occasions. He is the perfect player, to compliment Bateman and Mitchell, could play 10+ games this year.
Future – Will play a few games this year, and will impress in the NAB cup. There is a chance he may not develop, give him time and I suspect he will. Will play 200+ games if he fulfils his potential.
Tim Boyle – I have seen him play once, I think it was against port this year and he looked the goods, apparently has had a lot of injury trouble, but should he get over his injuries he could be your much needed marking forward (its needed because continually going to Williams became very predictable), can’t say too much else, apart from his excellent marking ability. Should be your first choice at FF or CHF, if he is fully fit, although he may need a bit more muscle to make an impact at AFL level.
Future – from what I have seen, will be a very good key forward, should make it at AFL level. Should play at least 150 games, could easily be more.
Luke Brennan – I don’t rate him much at all, he is another that is lucky to be on an AFL list. He is a KPP in a midfielders body, he reminds me a lot of Rowan Jones at the eagles. He is a poor kick, is an in-between height, but was able to play KP at junior level. They both give you what they have got in terms of talent, but if you look at the talent on the rest of the list, he should not be playing games, unless there are a lot of injuries. He is not the worst player, but will always be an average player, and if you guys want to be a force in the next few years, as you should with the talent on your list, then he should go. He may be a handy squad player though.
Future – Delisted after 1 maybe 2 years if he is lucky.
Campbell Brown – Really like this kid, but is another who has been unlucky with injury. IMO should be in your starting 18 when fit, he is very hard at the ball, which is good and also has the skill, to use it well, those two traits often don’t go together. Should be a very good HBF in years to come.
Future – will be a more than handy HBF in the future, won’t be a superstar, but he is one you can count on to do a job week in, week out. 150+ games for the Hawks.
Robert Campbell – Isn’t a great ruckman, and injuries haven’t helped that. Just doesn’t have what it takes at AFL level. This year will be his last year to show what he can do. He will get enough opportunities to impress, but with McEntee and Bailey in the wings, he is on borrowed time. May be on the list next year, depending on what Spider does and how Bailey and McEntee show in the VFL.
Future – Not up to it at AFL, will be delisted, but how long he stays on an AFL list, will be determined by what happens to the other ruckmen in the side.
Tim Clarke – Love this bloke. Another player in my dream team, he is very underrated, even by many Hawks fans. People tend to judge forward pockets, on how many goals they kick, but Clarke isn’t a natural forward, he is a tagger playing there to curb the influence of an attacking backpocket, like Wirra, Chris Johnson etc. Having said that he still almost kicks enough goals as a FP, to just play as a pure goalsneak, but although I don’t rate Clarkson too much as a coach, he seems to have found a perfect role for him. There are more talented players on the list, but not many are as smart and dedicated as Clarke, probably won’t improve too much in ’06, but if he plays how he did in ’05 he will be more than handy.
Future – IMO he is an essential component to the forward line. I think AC rates him, but he may pick someone more talented then Clarke, like a Miller or someone, but that would be his loss, Clarke should be one of the first picked each week, should play 200+ games.
Shane Crawford (vet) – What can I say, is a class act, unfortunately won’t be around long enough to experience some of the Hawks inevitable success, but has still got a key role in making sure they get there. He will help the youngsters improve and should stay involved with after he retires, although a media career beckons.
Future – Could squeeze a couple of season out of him, would definitely be beneficial for the youngsters of the club.
Trent Croad – When he first arrived on the scene at the Hawks, I had my doubt about him, as I am not a fan of clubs picking athletes over footballers. But he looks a very good pickup now. Apparently he is very dedicated, and he a KPP who can play very well at both ends of the ground, these players are gems. He has definitely improved his football nous, and it has thoroughly shown that in his performances.
Future – 250+ gamer for the club.
Zac Dawson – Saw him play one very good game, against the tigers, and one shocker against the swans. Based on those performances he is not AFL ready yet and is definitely a project player, but with your lack of key defenders, may have to play before his is fully ready. This could assist his development, or hinder his development, have seen it go both ways when someone is played too early. I am still not sure he will make it, needs to bulk up a lot, jury is still out on him.
Ben Dixon – Is a top bloke, but is IMO nearing the end of his career. Very inconsistent performer, but usually an accurate set-shot. With the young key forwards developing nicely, he will see limited game time in ’06.
Future – ’06 will be his last year at the hawks, unless there are a few injuries to key forwards and he impresses.
Beau Dowler – Another top bloke, I did a pre-season with him down at the Chargers last year, and you won’t find a nicer bloke, is a top cricketer too, but that is irrelevant. If he fully overcomes his injury he could get some game time this year, but they should not take any unnecessary risks with him. Will slot in nicely as the 3rd tall on a HFF, and play like a secondary CHF. Just keeps presenting, is quick and agile for a bloke his size, has very good hands below his knees, as well as marking, is also quite a smart footballer, knows when to lead, but often leads to wide into a non-threatening position. His second efforts, can let him down, but apparently he improved on his 2nd efforts in the second half of the year. Is a very similar player to Ash Hansen, who also came from the Chargers, although he is a much better contested mark.
Future – Will play over 200 games.
Xavier Ellis - Hawthorn’s first pick in the draft, but in my books he is behind Dowler, Birchall and Muston, can’t compare him to Bailey, but from what I have seen of Ellis, and from what I have heard of Bailey, Bailey could well be the better player. In the games I saw him; he didn’t look too quick and looked pretty soft. But he is a good height for a midfielder, is a good mark, and is quite clever. Everyone says his disposal is excellent, but was only better than average IMO, rarely kicks a floater, but can often miss an easy target under pressure. Will play for school for most of the year (I will try and clean him up), but wouldn’t have been picked for the Hawks anyway, he needs to pack on the pounds.
Future – Not sold that he will make it, I can see him not develop too well at the Hawks and then another club banking on his potential ala Fiora. Should reach 100 games in a worst case scenario, best case scenario, could play 300, but I still have my doubts and say around 150 games, maybe not all of them at the Hawks.
Peter Everitt – AA ruckman, has a couple of years left, although has expressed interest to join former teamate Barry Hall at the Swans. Not much to add, is a great player.
Future – 2 maybe 3 years left not necessarily at the Hawks.Brent Guerra – He is an average player at best, has some talent, but I don’t think Clarkson will bring out his best, which would be required to replace Clarke. I will be very disappointed if he replaces Clarke, he is not a smart footballer, just likes to dish out the hard stuff, the Hawks to me do have a soft forwardline a lot of the time, but he should really come off the bench and be an impact player, rather than a forward pocket, who gets less than 5 possessions a game.
Luke Hodge – Is crap, Judd is much better! (just thought I would say that so we had something to disagree on).
Danny Jacobs – I have a few mates who support Essendon, who have always thought he was crap, I just can’t really see why. Has excellent disposal, but struggles when played at FB, IMO he is more suited to a 3rd tall than can zone off, but he could go alright at CHB, if given enough opportunity. His rating may go down this year, as Hay is gone, so he play have to play FB, which he is not suited to, if he plays as the 3rd tall, expect a good solid season, he should also be given license to run the ball out of defence, because he has great disposal by foot.
Future – really depends what role Clarkson has in store for him, if he plays as the third tall, he is good enough to play there fir another 8 or so years, but if due to the Hay departure, he plays FB, then he may be gone in 1 or 2 years.
Rick Ladson – Is a very inconsistent performer, this may have to do with his light frame, but I thick he is worth persevering with, usually has good skills by foot, but they can also let him down under pressure. Give him a couple of kilo’s and a full season on the wing, or even a HBF (but half your side are HBF’ers), he may come good. Has the ability to succeed at AFL level, I think even if he doesn’t have a great year I would give him another one, as he should stay on the list ahead of Ries, Barker, Ball, Campbell, Dixon etc. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hawks lost patience with him.
Future – could go either way, but I will say he will have a good enough year to stay on the list, then have another 2 average inconsistent years and then get delisted, but could be on the list a lot longer or even a lot shorter amount of time than my estimate. Very 50/50 as to whether he will make it at this stage.
Jordan Lewis – Can’t say too much you don’t already know, I had my doubts about him being such an early pick, pick 7 wasn’t he?, but has proved me wrong and has had a very good first year, but the question is how much improvement has he got in him, could be a lot but could be quite little.
Future – 250+ game player for the Hawks, I think he will continually improve.
Matt Little – Unseen
Harry Miller – Jury is still out on Miller, he is very talented, but he can look lethargic at times. Funny that Clarkson seemed to play him much further up the ground than I would, he looks your best genuine forward pocket crumbing forward. He is prone to clangers, but they won’t do much damage if they are done in the forward pocket rather than on a wing.
Future – looks promising, but ’06 is a make or break year, should be played in a FP, may not reach 100 games, but has the talent to play 200+. I don’t think Clarkson with get the best out of him, and he may play his career out in the VFL. But if Clarkson does get him to use his talent, he could be a 35+ goal a season FP, for many years to come.
Sam Mitchell – What can I say, another Hawk in my dream team, was IMO your most signifact loss to injury last year, would say he is pretty close to the best clearance player in the comp. Will be a champion, not much to add really, just a class act.
Future – has had a few injury troubles so I doubt he will play 300 games, but should get to 250 games, no worries.
Thomas Murphy - Unseen
Beau Muston – I saw him play once and hey was exceptional, doesn’t seem to me too many players like him in the AFL atm. He reminds me a bit of a James Hird, on that one game I saw him play, thre is probably a better comparison, but there was something about him. Reads the play exceptionally well, like he has a 6th sense of where the ball will go, which is maybe what reminds me of Hird, is good overhead like Hird too, is also able to play at HF and kick goals like Hird. If he gets over his injury he could be anything.
Michael Osborne – Another player that will need to show something in his next year or two. Plays good footy here and there, but tends to go missing in games. He doesn’t get the ball enough, but when he does, he uses it well.
Future - Worth persevering with for another year at least. May come good, may not, I am leaning towards the not. Will be delisted at the end of the ’07 season.
Nick Ries – Is an ex Wesley-boy, which means I have a lot of time for him, as I am at Wesley now (and Schwabby is our coach). But he is slow with poor skills, makes silly errors at times too. Although you cant fault his endeavour, his is an honest battler who’s best isn’t good enough.
Future - should be delisted at seasons end.
Jarryd Roughead – I think he plays better footy up forward, but with Hay gone he will probably be first choice FB. AC is grooming him as a defender, as there are a few young key forwards on the list ATM. Will have a few bags kicked on him this year, as he is young, but will come good, and I would like to see him play up forward once your backline worries are sorted.
Future – He will have an excellent career at the Hawks, 250+ games.
Brad Sewell – is a promising tagger, can shut down players, while getting the pill himself. Might be more suited to HB/BP, with the Hawks improving midfield, but as long as he is in the side you can always have him as a tagging option if an opposition midfielder is getting a lot of the pil.
Future – how many games he gets will depend on the form of the youngsters, should play round 1, but could find himself in and out of the side if he doesn’t perform. Should be a handy squad player in years to come.
Joel Smith – Seemed to struggle in the role that he has played so well in over the years as a rebounding HB. Looked pretty good when he went into the middle, but when moved into defence sometimes looked a bit lacklustre. May be an option at FB, if the FF isn’t too big, but I would be tempted to play him on the wing in his last couple of years ala Glen Archer this year.
Future – The Hawks need some leadership from him, if he doesn’t provide that, this may be his last year, is getting on a bit, and another year like last year may see him starved of opportunities.
Simon Taylor – See Campbell.
Josh Thurgood – Hawks fans seem to like him, but I am not sold on him yet, is extremely light, shows courage and usually a good decision maker. I still have my doubts, however that he will make it at AFL level. He is not tall enough to play as a KPP at AFL level, and isn’t agile enough to be a midfielder. I think he, like Jacobs can only play as a 3rd tall. I don’t think there is room in the same backline for him and Jacobs, and I think Jacobs is the better player.
Future – AC likes him I don’t, I would say he will play no more than 100 games, but Clarkson may choose him above Jacobs, so he might play 150 games.
Travis Tuck – Haven’t seen enough to really comment on. Looks ok, nothing special though.
Richie Vandenberg – Had a poor year last year, but apparantly was carrying a back injury, not sure if I believe that though. He is another honest goer tries his heart out, but isn’t good enough, if he wasn’t the captain, might have been dropped a few times last year, but like Primus had immunity because he was the captain. Has poor disposal and decision making skills under pressure.
Future – may have one last year as captain, Hodgey should take it off him soon, then may struggle to get a game if the youngsters continue their improvement.
Mark Williams – Played very well as the only forward target, but next year, there should be more tall timber in the forward line, so he will get less opportunity.
Future - Having said that, can still kick 40+ goals a year from here on in. Although for someone of his height I would like to see him work on his skills below his knees, but if he plays as a leading forward pocket, like I said could kick 40+, but if he improved his ability to crumb off a pack (which is hard to teach) he could kick 50+ goals in ’06.
Clinton Young – really impressed me last year, needs to bulk up, but has good pace and skills, and is not afraid the run the lines and take players on, he looked very good against West Coast, was close to your best player that game.
Future – With a full pre-season and few kilo’s under his belt, he could be a very good player in ’06, should play the whole year on a wing and show the football world what he can do.
My Hawks Line-up (best available)
B: Jacobs Roughead Sewell
HB: Brown Croad Hodge
C: Young Lewis Bateman
HF: Guerra Franklin Clarke
FF: Williams Boyle Miller
Ruck: Everitt Mitchell Crawford
Int – Vandenberg, Ladson, Campbell, Smith
I feel I am missing someone, but that is may take on how you should line up come round 1. Maybe Murphy and Little should be in the side but I haven’t seen them play.
That’s assuming Ellis, Dowler, Muston and Barker are unavailable.
There is still a fair bit of deadwood on your list, but a lot of talent also, I expect another bottom 4 finish this year, in 2007, you should be finished around 10th, then by 2008, top 6 maybe even top 4 should be a must. I think you have the talent to make the top 2 by 2009, I am not sure Clarkson is the right man to get you there.
Before Hawks fans hop into me, this was written at the start of the year. Must have had a lot of free times after exams last year, lol.
- Thread starter
- #32
May aswell chuck in my votes as we had 9 voters. Good to see plenty of discussion aswell
5 - Quinten Lynch (WCE; Big man showed his presence all day. 5 goals, could've been more, but held everything that came to him)
4 - Chris Judd (WCE; Consistent all day and turned it on when the game was to be won. 10 clearances despite Spida dominant)
3 - Sam Mitchell (HAW; As always, was always there. 35 touches and plenty of hard work shown)
2 - Peter Everitt (HAW; 31 hitouts and played his best game of the year. Helped with the Everitt-Hodge-Mitchell trio once more)
1 - Luke Hodge (HAW; Sensational in the first half but was quiet in the second. Unlucky not to get more)
5 - Quinten Lynch (WCE; Big man showed his presence all day. 5 goals, could've been more, but held everything that came to him)
4 - Chris Judd (WCE; Consistent all day and turned it on when the game was to be won. 10 clearances despite Spida dominant)
3 - Sam Mitchell (HAW; As always, was always there. 35 touches and plenty of hard work shown)
2 - Peter Everitt (HAW; 31 hitouts and played his best game of the year. Helped with the Everitt-Hodge-Mitchell trio once more)
1 - Luke Hodge (HAW; Sensational in the first half but was quiet in the second. Unlucky not to get more)
