Bigger Picture

[della]

I walked away from yesterdays game and i suspect so did Bomber Thompson and alot of cats fans and wondered how the hell r we going to beat this mob when they r full strength.
If gehrig plays with Hamill, throw in Penny and powell we jusy don;t have enough talent to match them i believe.
Our main problem is Playfair at CHF, he just isnt up to it and our whole forward line doesn't take enough marks contested or on the lead i feel, geez if we had Brown or even Graham still i would feel better as our midfeild is ok even though it got stitched up yday.

The saints forward structure gives me nightmares and i just don't see how we can beat therm, it ********es me off cause they got handed there whole bloody team whilst we did some great recruiting without any high picks.

i hope i am proven wrong but i think deep down we all know we will struggle against this mob come september

anyway the boys i feel r doing a great job with a no frills team and not alot of starts in it. keep up[ the good work fellas


della!

 

[Turbocat]

Della , I was thinking about this esspecially after the rubbish that several Sainters have spewed forth about their injuries being the reason they lost etc.
Im not sure that it was Hamil or Gehrig that were the area that cost them the game, it was their ball movers , the Midfield that eventually shut up shop, thru fatigue, thru injuries , thru our good play what ever. Yes with G-Train and Hamil they may have capitalized on their control the first half but I doubt that they would have helped much last quarter.A fit Mooney can also take care of Hamill.
If anything , I feel its our mids that probably are the area that we need to improve.Generally I think they are a fine bunch but Byrnes showed that the rest of the lack as bit of run. Guys like Ricco although handy do restrict us having another speedy player in the side. Apart from Tenace do we have anyone in the V's that can give us more run? Koola maybe or maybe someone else?
Im being picky, and you are right that we should almost fear the Saints power , they are a young gun side. Yes they may have the edge in tall forward talent but we have the edge in Ruck, if we can rove to our own ruck's we can deny their forwards the chance to beat us. Remember us in the 90's we had the better forwardline the WC but they just denyed us the chance to hurt them.We must do the same.

 

[tragicforces]

I totally disagree. You are completely underestimating the ability of our key defenders to stop Gehrig, Riedwolt and Hamill. I am sure Scarlett, Harls and Moons would be offended by your lack of confidence.

Penny wouldn't have made a difference either, the way the ball was continually being bombed to the top of the goalsquare yesterday. Our forwards are good enough to at least provide a contest and let our crumbers do the work.

Where we lost big time and need to improve is in the midfield. The fact that our midfield was able to hold on enough to keep within range of the Saints, even though we were down on form, is very encouraging.

Thompson was wily enough to realise that we could overrun them in the final quarter, and so kept the rotation going, even though some players were down on form. That is big picture stuff and that is what wins premierships.

By the way, that's two wins in a row, so what's with this fear of the saints?

 

[della]

we played them at skilled last year and they had there whole backline out, we can beat them i beleive but it will take one almight effort.

playfair at chf will not win us a flag, we only overran them cause of the injuries, ******** anyside would of overun them.

I am not putting our guys down but i just think we lack a key forward who can take a grab.

Tenace better start pulling his finger out cause i think he is our wildcard come september but at the moment isnt showing enough for such a high pick.

Also why the hell D.Johnson was picked has got me stuffed, would of left callan in.


also saw Graham in the rooms after the game, what a joke, i wouldn't let that bloke anywhere near our rooms again, most over paid player in the history of thev game and he walks out on us when we neede him most, hope he breaks his leg whilst in the states

 

[ecleftic]

Della, very nasty about Ben and very pessimistic about the team.




Go CATS!!

 

[tragicforces]

we played them at skilled last year and they had there whole backline out, we can beat them i beleive but it will take one almight effort.

Della,

Key players are in and out of sides all of the time. Bomber rates S Johnson as one of our top 6 players. King and Moons are underdone. One of our most experienced players Sanderson is out injured (D.Johnson is playing in his position ).

Bottom line is - we can beat these guys on any given day, with any given range of players available on the day, because we are a much more even team.

 

[cats56]

Della,

Key players are in and out of sides all of the time. Bomber rates S Johnson as one of our top 6 players. King and Moons are underdone. One of our most experienced players Sanderson is out injured (D.Johnson is playing in his position ).

Bottom line is - we can beat these guys on any given day, with any given range of players available on the day, because we are a much more even team.

Seconded tragicforces.

Would also like to add, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. There is a game to be won on Friday night.

 

[della]

i'm not being pessimistic there just my views and opinion, i suppose being a cats fan u can get pessimistic at times.

in regards to Graham, i can't stand the bloke, he gave our club nothing during his underated career and we paid him top dollars and he walks out just whwn we needed him most, u can welcxome thew bloke back but i am not that forgiveven.

 

[danny dickvos]

It is vary rare to play a team that is at full strength anyway, you can only beat the team that is on the track

 

[cats56]

i'm not being pessimistic there just my views and opinion, i suppose being a cats fan u can get pessimistic at times.

in regards to Graham, i can't stand the bloke, he gave our club nothing during his underated career and we paid him top dollars and he walks out just whwn we needed him most, u can welcxome thew bloke back but i am not that forgiveven.

Bit hard on Benny there Della.

Benny was a pretty good servant of the GFC , if a little frustating at times.

If you truly believe he did nothing in his career then you shouldn't be upset at seeing him go.

The Fact is Benny was only going to get a 1 year contract probably about $200,000 @ GFC.
He took the punt (pardon the pun) on a gridiron iron career that could net him huge dollar's plus a very long career. Completely understandable.

While his loss may be short term pain it may be a long term gain for the Cat's.
H had to learn the position eventually and has been o.k. early but struggled the last 2. Remember it is the most difficult position to learn and H wasn't going to learn by being thrown all over the shop as in previous seson's. H just need's to be fast- tracked @ CHF and he is getting that in Benny's absence.
Time will tell whether he can hold down the position.

 

[Rodion]

St Kilda struggle to cover injuries. That's why "awww we had half our team out" inevitably comes out as an excuse when they lose. They've got a gun first 18 or 22, but after that their list drops off quite quickly. If you have to resort to hacks like McGough and Princess Fiora, you're in trouble. Geelong on the other hand have had players out of the side all season and nobody's notices. Mooney, Sanderson, Steve Johnson, Koula and Wojcinski are in our best 22 when fit and we've covered their absence admirably because Geelong has more depth than the Mariana trench.

Moral: Geelong's 38 listed players > St Kilda's 38 listed players.

 

[LongBomb]

Respect you opponent, but never fear them.

We can play a hell of a lot better than yesterday.
At our best we can beat any side that St Kilda can put on the park.

 

[Turbocat]

i'm not being pessimistic there just my views and opinion, i suppose being a cats fan u can get pessimistic at times.

in regards to Graham, i can't stand the bloke, he gave our club nothing during his underated career and we paid him top dollars and he walks out just whwn we needed him most, u can welcxome thew bloke back but i am not that forgiveven.

Isnt this a bit of a Oxymoron.He gave us nothing yet he walked out when we need him. How could we need him if gave us nothing. If you conceed that we would be a better side now with Ben at CHF then he must be worth somthing to our structure. As far as money goes,Valued players are payed more in poor sides. The cap ensure that everyone spends the same, when he got his big contract others were departing, the money must go to someone. Can you specify a case where his payment cost us players on our list?

 

[della]

i never rated Benny and feel his career was a waste, would of loved him to saty cause he would of taken a good defender still which would of freed up Kinsley, ottens and Henry.

Anyone who feels Benny did a good job at Geelong has got rocks in there heads, he never stood up in the big games abit like mensch oh except against the Tigers, anyway enough on benny i am sick of him.

Anyone know how our uncontracted players r shaping up, heard that they r having troubl with Kelly at the moment as a few clubs esp Ess r sniffing around, we do have alot of players out at seasons end.

Lets hope they stay loyal and don't chase the bigger $

 

[david boon]

della said:
it ********es me off cause they got handed there whole bloody team whilst we did some great recruiting without any high picks
I get tired of hearing this line trotted out all the time.
It is an urban myth, like the Panther or Cougar in the Western District region of Victorian, no truth in it.
St Kilda did not get handed a whole lot of talent.
We got one extra pick after Carlton lied and cheated on their salary cap and had to come clean, and we were the beneficiary of that.
We got Brent Guerra and Cain Ackland from Port Adelaide because the Power couldn't give them a regular game.
We got Luke Ball in the same year as Hawks got Hodge and the Eagles got Judd. These 3 were the best talent and if we supposed to be handed talent by charity, why didn't we get all three?
Hamill came over because he was offended by comments made by that Pig John Elliott.
Everyone gets first round picks, we kept all of ours and didn't trade them such as when Adelaide gave up a good pick for Wayne Carey.
Wise recruiting also, we had a look at what type of players we needed and went after those players.
So give a well-deserved rest to the tired old "they were handed a team of talent" and find some other excuses for when your team next get beaten.
Grow up and do your research.

 

[WestCat]

della said:
it ********es me off cause they got handed there whole bloody team whilst we did some great recruiting without any high picks
I get tired of hearing this line trotted out all the time.
It is an urban myth, like the Panther or Cougar in the Western District region of Victorian, no truth in it.
St Kilda did not get handed a whole lot of talent.
We got one extra pick after Carlton lied and cheated on their salary cap and had to come clean, and we were the beneficiary of that.
We got Brent Guerra and Cain Ackland from Port Adelaide because the Power couldn't give them a regular game.
We got Luke Ball in the same year as Hawks got Hodge and the Eagles got Judd. These 3 were the best talent and if we supposed to be handed talent by charity, why didn't we get all three?
Hamill came over because he was offended by comments made by that Pig John Elliott.
Everyone gets first round picks, we kept all of ours and didn't trade them such as when Adelaide gave up a good pick for Wayne Carey.
Wise recruiting also, we had a look at what type of players we needed and went after those players.
So give a well-deserved rest to the tired old "they were handed a team of talent" and find some other excuses for when your team next get beaten.
Grow up and do your research.

I think the point being made is that St Kilda were rewarded by being terrible. You guys have 4 top 2 draft picks on your list, we have 1 and only because we traded for him. I think other teams just don't like the idea that teams can sit at the bottom of the ladder for a few years and gain a huge advantage once they get their act together.

On the point of us against the Saints, i think 1 area we need to improve is ruckwork, Kingy needs to get more creative. The Saints players were able to shark the ball too often.

 

[saintsrule]

And you also subscribe to the myth that saints contrived to be terrible. No ... rather accident than invention.

 

[grgic_fanclub]

I can't understand this whole notion that Geelong only won because St. Kilda didn't have the best team on the track. This idea that there was no Gehrig, Harvey or jones. What if Gehrig had of played like he did in the first couple of rounds? Additionally, you can only play the team they put on the track. What if Reiwoldt hadn't of played? They would of harped on him not being there but he didn't exactly tear the game apart. Another thing, for any of you that have the tape of the game, watch Robert Walls' post game "genius". This is a guy that is payed lots of dollars coming out with only one argument { not to mention picking Richmond over Geelong in the first round}. St.Kilda haven't got their best team in. Everything positive he said about Geelong was followed by a negative and then he didn't even have one word to say about Chapman being injured or Steve johnson missing. If the word Douchebag was in a pictorial dictionary, his ugly mug would be pinned right next to it.

 

[Rodion]

Good point, grgic_fanclub.

Also I think the way we played in the last quarter, nobody could have stopped us. Not even St. Kilda with all fit players. Maybe the saints would have been too far up for it to matter but maybe not.

 

[phk_71]

Have to agree about Robert Walls - he always seems to put a spin on things that just plain annoys me, even if it's not chipping away at a great Geelong win.

Anyway, I think our best team lined up against the Saints best would just be too close to call come September. We've got the defensive firepower to match their forward setup, good runners to match up against theirs, an edge in the ruck and enough forward-line options to keep their backline accountable. Hey, who knows?

 

[Turbocat]

....
Everyone gets first round picks, we kept all of ours and didn't trade them such as when Adelaide gave up a good pick for Wayne Carey.
Wise recruiting also, we had a look at what type of players we needed and went after those players.
So give a well-deserved rest to the tired old "they were handed a team of talent" and find some other excuses for when your team next get beaten.
Grow up and do your research.

David, Della can speak for herslf but I feel that although stretching the truth about the "full team", from our point of view teams like St's, Melbourne, Bulldogs have got extra picks at the quality end by basically playing dead.
Eg.In the same draft you pick up Riewoldt an Kosinski 1&2, one of them was charity.Fact
In 2001 you got Ball at 2 and Clarke at 5 - one of those was charity.Fact
Are you any different to any other club thats use the RORT picks(Priority) no, but to say you have built a team in the same method as us is tripe.Yes you have traded well but you have also recieved quality picks which are almost priceless in todays climate.Yes you have worked hard but we have worked hard with less from the quality end of the draft than you and the likes of you.Fact.
Yes everyone gets first round pick but not everyone get two of them.We have not had a top 5 pick in 15 years, just give us two picks in the top10 a couple years in row and see if you think thats charity or not.

 

[Turbocat]

Just to add, from todays Addy
Gerard Whateley said this ..

Geelong is the unfashionable collection of mid-range draft picks - the curse for clubs that delve into mediocrity but refuse to disintergrate
StKilda represents the glamour of high draft picks,the fruits of dysfunction..

excactly Priority picks = Disintergration & dysfuction, giving up when you dont have the talent to win easy

 

[Lacquer Head]

You can only beat the team that's put in front of you, which we did, and we can beat them again

A bit of credit for our boys pulease,

They came home well against the doggies, and repeated it against the Saints

How can you possibly see anything negetive here ???????

 

[VikingCat]

Just to add, from todays Addy
Gerard Whateley said this ..

Geelong is the unfashionable collection of mid-range draft picks - the curse for clubs that delve into mediocrity but refuse to disintergrate
StKilda represents the glamour of high draft picks,the fruits of dysfunction..

excactly Priority picks = Disintergration & dysfuction, giving up when you dont have the talent to win easy

Nice thought, Turbocat. I think it's dead-on.

I don't know enough about football to really get into this debate, but in the end, Geelong took the points - both coaches were highly complimentary of each other too. Grant Thomas refused to blame injuries, saying Geelong was better, while Bomber on K-Rock (or MMM?) after the game said he reckoned we would have lost by 10 goals if every Saint selected had been on the field. I think the truth is somewhere in between. We won because in the end, Bomber used players cleverly. We have beaten them before - history favours us overall, not just at Skilled - and we'll beat them again, and vice versa.

We're 6-2 and that's not bad going. We can keep this up, we can beat any side in the competition when we focus on the task at hand. Go Geelong.

 

[jim boy]

And you also subscribe to the myth that saints contrived to be terrible. No ... rather accident than invention.

Questionable. Any team that got rid of a reasonably successful coach in Alves, then appointed Watson to be coach, then appointed a bloke who didn't want to to coach to be coach is either very badly run or up to no good.


Bottom line is that St Kilda got higher draft picks, not because they lacked talented players, but because the footy department in general was a shambles (since fixed).