Biggest mistake

[cwood_rules]

I jus wanna add my 2 cents worth so please don't trample all over me.

In my opinion i think that Collingwood's biggest mistake when malthouse took over is that they've let too many good players go.
For instance the swap between Mal Michael for Jarrad Molloy, i thought was a complete disaster. What on earth were they thinking? you just dont give away a good young player for a middle aged player who in my opinion wasnt at his best wen he played. I think that was one of their biggest mistakes.
Other good players they've let go in the past for instance: Robbie Ahmed, Andrew schuable, Paul williams, Heath Scotland have all been other big mistakes, in particular paul williams...its jus another thing that phazes me about the collingwood recruiting staff or who ever deals with that area....Paul williams is a quality player an still is an in my opinion i would NEVER had got rid of him an i dont care who it was for...

I think that the collingwood staff should strongly address this, an i think this has been a main concern over the years. They seem to give away good talent in return for dud talent. Our only good trade pick/draft pick over the last coupla years in my opinion wud have 2 be Wakelin, Clement an didak. The rest i have been less then impressed with, especially wif Shane Woewodin...i think shane was a waste an is no where near his greatest. And if it was upto me i would trade him at the end of the season.

Please feel free to tell me ur opinions an views!

 

[hotpie]

Robbie Ahmat????????

 

[grinspoon]

schuble????

 

[grayza]

williams and collingwood were finished together as far as i can remember, he had played his best footy at pies and was best to let him go
robbie ahmat was never any good IMO
bit harsh on woey also i believe
what about ben johnson at number 60 odd in draft...thats not a good get???

 

[Lockyer24]

I'll give my personal Top 3....AS (After Shaw)

The McKee/King/Pick 3/Pick 7 trade.

Letting Nick Davis go so easily.

Letting Heath Scotland go so easily.

 

[Murray]

Well I want to (wanna) add my bit as well.
All of those players wanted to leave, it wasn't that Collingwood wanted to get rid of them (except perhaps for Ahmat).
There may be some argument that we let them go for a limited return, but is that better than losing them for nothing in the pre-season draft ie Port & Nick Stevens.

What you might see as a mistake could well turn out to be our only alternative.

 

[GlovemanGayfer]

Williams had personal reasons for wanting to leave and has been a better player for it due to a change of location. Mal Michael was lazy and also needed a change. Look at Clement as an example, so players need to go somewhere else to perform at their best (I sound like Shawy). That said a few deals (McKee etc) were woeful. The pies also tried very hard to keep Davis who was a big sook about the whole thing. My gripe is that we havent been proactive in trading good players. If you look at the bombers they trade good player while they are still worth decent players in return. We try and trade the bottom rung and wonder why no one wants them. Scotland is a prime example we waited so long to trade him his value dropped. If they were not going to trade him they should have got rid of him proactively not reactively when he demanded a trade.

Question- Has anyone seen Robbie Ahmat recently? Last time I heard of him he was playing SANFL reserves. Boy I wish we had kept him!!!!!!!!

 

[hotpie]

Originally posted by Lockyer24
Letting Nick Davis go so easily.

I don't miss him, especially not his softness. He spents 70% of his time in the injury room.

 

[cwood_rules]

ok so maybe some of these players have left on their own free will but im sure the coaching staff would of had a say in it, like convincing them 2 stay.

i jus think to many good past players have left an in a way its sort of effected us. and yes they seem to be getting very limited back wen trading away good players i dont know why.

But jus I.M.O i think we need to get new recruiting manager, cos essendon an port adelaide seem to be getting better young kids then us an recruit pretty well. Now why cant our recruit manager look at how they recruit

 

[guess_who]

What about the players we drafted or picked up IE traded.
Clement, Holland, O'bree, McKee, Buckley, Wakelin, Williams, Rocca, Licuria just to name some...

 

[carringbush]

Robie Ahmet................................................stop it will ya Im trying to eat

 

[Scotty Riggs]

Originally posted by Lockyer24
I'll give my personal Top 3....AS (After Shaw)

The McKee/King/Pick 3/Pick 7 trade.

Letting Nick Davis go so easily.

Letting Heath Scotland go so easily.

Davis was as good as gone anyway, he made it clear he was "home sick" and he got let go like he wanted.

Losing Scotland to me was bad, but I guess seeing as he (apparently) wanted to be traded for more game time, he got his wish.

To me, losing Batheras was a mistake, but then I look at him last season not getting a chance to crack it into the side, and the fact no one else drafted him, makes it not that much of a big loss.

 

[Scotty Riggs]

Originally posted by guess_who
What about the players we drafted or picked up IE traded.
Clement, Holland, O'bree, McKee, Buckley, Wakelin, Williams, Rocca, Licuria just to name some...

Take out Williams and O'Bree from that line-up, and you have some decent pick-ups.

 

[jefffff34]

Originally posted by Scotty Riggs
To me, losing Batheras was a mistake, but then I look at him last season not getting a chance to crack it into the side, and the fact no one else drafted him, makes it not that much of a big loss.

How stupid was this?

That ripped the heart out of the team/club.

 

[Scotty Riggs]

It still confuses me why the dumped him. I mean they could of dumped O'Bree, or Williams, or even Kinnear. Atleast Batheras had some heart, and actually attackes the ball. And doesn't turn it over as much.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

When you delist someone like Rupes, despite his limited talent, you lose some of the fabric that binds the club together (& when I say club, I'm talking more about the playing list than anything else). You need your silk, but of the same token you need blokes on your list that will bust a gut, week in, week out; the blokes that inspire not only the young fellas, but also your senior players, through unselfish and courageous play. We may well have lost some of our silk (Williams, Davis, etc), but when you let blokes go who have an ability to lift a team, despite the fact that their own skill level might be left wanting, the club is likely to suffer a much greater loss.

Well, that's my two bobs worth...

 

[guess_who]

McKee was really good in his first two years untill the rules changed. I remember when he used to get 10 clearences a game, infact didnt he equal the best with Mitchell of 15 or 16 clearences a game?

What were we going to do with Davis? he would have been a biatch and said.. well i'll just quit the club and then we were even more screwed.

As for Scotland, he wantedto leave because of lack of opportunity. No team would have given much more for him any way. Look at him now, second in the league in contested ball gets. Amazing what the bloke can do with some time on the ground.

Also look at how cheaply we got woewodin.
Finally, I agree with that thing about Rupert. Sometimes clubs just have to make tough decisions, Williams can play as he displayed in his first 3 games for Collingwood when he played on the wing. I think he lacks confidence because he is being played on the HFF.

 

[cwood_rules]

i agree with betheras, they should of kept him an got rid of players like kinnear & williams.
we have picked up good players in the past but not lately, all we seem 2 be doing lately is getting rid of good players.....

i personally would trade woewodin at the end of the year, i dont think his playing at his best an his ability 2 play well has dropped since comin to collinwood an i for one havent been impressed with him...

 

[jefffff34]

Originally posted by guess_who
McKee was really good in his first two years untill the rules changed. I remember when he used to get 10 clearences a game, infact didnt he equal the best with Mitchell of 15 or 16 clearences a game?

15 or 16 a game?!?!!!

 

[brentoncowell]

cwood_rules, i respect your opinion but i wont hold back in my thinking that you are off track on this one.
The recruiting at collingwood is the sole reason we made two grand finals. We recycled a lot of players and recruited one the greatest coaches in the land to coach them and it paid divendends.
Losing Williams doesnt really mean much to our current team and we moved on. We really lost out when Davis left, crickey we could do with another top line forward at the moment, he is star!
Heath Scotland was a huge blunder, i as well as many, loved the guy at the pies and he was obviously an under valued superstar. MM must have hated Scoots, because wwe all knew how good he was, yet he was playing for ****ing williamstown. Im so glad we lost Scotty, now he can bloom into the superstar he is, killing em at the blues, on ya Heath!!!

Armat? he was a joke!

 

[FIGJAM]

I analysed this over at Hotrod's earlier. The Malthouse & Balme years...

In 1999 we got:
Steve McKee + #7 (Danny Roach) for Clinton King + #3 (Aaron Fiora)
Andrew Ukovic for #40 (David Hille)
Mark Kinnear + Leon Davis for Andrew Schauble

In 2000 we got:
James Clement + Brodie Holland for Paul Williams
Jarrod Molloy + Carl Steinfort (Josh Hunt) for Mal Michael + #22 (Richard Hadley)

In 2001 we got:
No trades.

In 2002 we got:
Shane Woewodin for #16 (Daniel Bell)
Andrew Williams for Damien Adkins

In 2003 we got:
Brent Hall for Heath Scotland

Ins
Steve McKee - Servicable for 5 minutes. Gone.
Danny Roach - Had some talent, weak as ****. Gone.
Andrew Ukovic - Whokovic? Gone.
Mark Kinnear - More useful than Ben. Gone before he got here.
Leon Davis - Overrated by the only people who matter...us!
James Clement - Almost worth Willo alone.
Brodie Holland - Screw his head on and he's servicable.
Jarrod Molloy - Liability. Gone.
Carl Steinfort - See McKee. Gone.
Shane Woewodin - Good.
Andrew Williams - Dud. Gone.
Brent Hall - Man mountain. Good.

Opportunity Cost (assuming we took players other clubs took)
Clinton King - Hackorama. Right bait.
Aaron Fiora - ...but we all know the real opportunity cost!
David Hille - Spaz, but potentially servicable.
Andrew Schauble - Club champion (poor indictment on the Swanettes).
Paul Williams - Club champion. Wanted out.
Mal Michael - Groomed into one of the best. Wanted out.
Josh Hunt - Doing fine for the Cats.
Richard Hadley - Looks good.
Daniel Bell - Too early.
Damien Adkins - Dud for a dud. Love those lose lose trades!
Heath Scotland - Servicable centreman.

Compare:
Who remains and is servicable?

Collingwood:
1. Clement
2. Woewodin
3. Holland
4. Hall
5. Davis (very, very iffy inclusion)

Them:
1. Paul Williams
2. Mal Michael
3. Heath Scotland
4. David Hille
5. Andrew Schauble
6. Richard Hadley
7. Josh Hunt
8. Aaron Fiora
9. Daniel Bell

Key "name" players who we reportedly missed out on include Fraser Gehrig, Nick Stevens, Joe Misiti (fortunately), Heath Black & Peter Everitt.

----------------------------------------

What a report card!

There's no doubt we've ****ed up in general, but the obvious complete **** up was the McKee deal. It looks as bad for Richmond as it does for us, but wowzer, that's so wrong on so many levels!

This has gone on for half a decade. Something must be done. Alas, methinks that Balmey is part of the collective family and immune from sruitiny.

Imagine a **** hot professional negotiator who looks for win-win trades.....man, would that be sweet!!

 

[shuveradda]

I agree we have let a few players go, Particurally younger players as in Draft Picks who've turned out good players.

But just look at who we have from other clubs. Licca, Rocca, O'Bree, Woey, Holland, Clement and Many More..

I'am Quite content.

 

[cwood_rules]

shuveradda, i agree with wat u said about recruiting we have recruited well PASTLY not presently an im talkin about over the 2 years....but i totally agree wif what figjam said.

I think Mick is a wonderful coach an esp wid young kids, but thats not what this is about, this is about the RECRUITING STAFF, i havent been pleased wif their recruiting in the last couple of years. And i think our recruiting staff is nowhere near essendons or brisbanes.
And the one trade thats hurt us bad is the mal michael one, i would never had let him go for jarrad molloy an i think molloy was a dud an added no real flavor to the team anyway.

mckee was ok but nothing 2 bragg on about same wif woey.
But shuveradda i think u need to look at what figjam wrote an consider it...

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Lockyer24
I'll give my personal Top 3....AS (After Shaw)

The McKee/King/Pick 3/Pick 7 trade.

Letting Nick Davis go so easily.

Letting Heath Scotland go so easily.

'bout right. Michael for Molloy with a draft pick upgrade for Brisbane was pretty ordinary in hindsight. Brenton Sanderson was a miss as well.

The McKee deal was as bad as it can get though. At worst it cost Pavlich and at best Haselby but it also meant we didn't get a real ruckman which could well have cost us 2 premierships and a softer development of Josh Fraser. Perhaps our worst error of judgment since letting Lockett walk which was the worst since doing the same with Quinlan. Man we have cost ourselves some premierships.

 

[FIGJAM]

And I forgot Saverio Rocca for NOTHING.

Norf used pick 30 something. Jebus!!