Billy nails Brawshaw on footy show

[Nardz]

Then why do people cry out so loud to make the whole world hear them when we get compensated and tell us to go and relocate?

Why should it be any different from any other club? Why doesn't the AFL compensate us for exactly the amount or at least half the amount the big clubs get?

did you miss my point completly? clubs get better deals when they can fill stadiums. They are an asset to the stadiums they play in and hence make more money.

Clubs that struggle to half fill a 50,000 stadium will not get good deals.

Why should the AFL compensate your clubs inability to fill a stadium after being in the competition for 80 odd years?

 

[The Teflon Dean]

Brayshaw got real shirty when billy asked why north get such a raw deal on stadiums. how come?

He probably gets frustrated having to deal with a dribbling ********* that can't comprehend basic economics.

seemed he got caught out a bit. His comparisons didnt mention any melbourne sides which somehow get better deals. Was he pushing an agenda, or playing the victim?

Both. Keep up the good work, JB.

 

[The Teflon Dean]

Serial North Hater count

grayham - 6
Rob - 2
IceWolf - 1
Doctor Jolly - 1
Angel Eyes - 0
campbell - 0

grayham is setting a cracking pace, no sign of experienced campaigners Angel Eyes and campbell yet, lift your games people we have a long day ahead of us.

 

[Hoops]

did you miss my point completly? clubs get better deals when they can fill stadiums. They are an asset to the stadiums they play in and hence make more money.

Clubs that struggle to half fill a 50,000 stadium will not get good deals.

Why should the AFL compensate your clubs inability to fill a stadium after being in the competition for 80 odd years?

I don't care what interstate clubs get, but clubs cost to play at the same stadium should be the same, If it requires $25,000 (????) at TD for Essendon to break even than that should be the same for the Kangaroos. But what really gets me angry is that Clubs should be able to choose where they play all their home games. Geelong wanted to play 9 SS games + 2 MCG games this year but got 8 SS + 3 TD games. so therefore we as a club should be duly compensated for that.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I don't care what interstate clubs get, but clubs cost to play at the same stadium should be the same, If it requires $25,000 (????) at TD for Essendon to break even than that should be the same for the Kangaroos. But what really gets me angry is that Clubs should be able to choose where they play all their home games. Geelong wanted to play 9 SS games + 2 MCG games this year but got 8 SS + 3 TD games. so therefore we as a club should be duly compensated for that.

Bloody oath we should!! I wish Skilled was big enough for us to play finals at...

 

[Doctor Jolly]

He probably gets frustrated having to deal with a dribbling ********* that can't comprehend basic economics.

Both. Keep up the good work, JB.

If JB has a fair case, then he has every right to have it debated in public.

But, he popped it up very quickly, had what seems a rather biases sample size (North v Freo,swans,lions), and then wouldnt go into any detail on some very basic questions from Bill.

Why did he stifle debate and mock Billy. Did he not want anyone to look at his "data" in any depth.

Seems to be standard North behaviour at the moment. ie. Bullshit backed up by shoot the messenger.

 

[Doctor Jolly]

Serial North Hater count

grayham - 6
Rob - 2
IceWolf - 1
Doctor Jolly - 1
Angel Eyes - 0
campbell - 0

Talk about paranoid. Prior to this post, I have only asked for clarification on the figures posted. How is that an attack. ?

 

[rizzo]

Who owns Skilled Stadium?

Geelong Council....but they rent it out for free to the Cats....because The Cats are Geelong (in the deeper sense)

Yep. we also own the catering rights, so when people buy food most of the $$ is into our pockets.

 

[The Teflon Dean]

If JB has a fair case, then he has every right to have it debated in public.

But, he popped it up very quickly, had what seems a rather biases sample size (North v Freo,swans,lions), and then wouldnt go into any detail on some very basic questions from Bill.

Why did he stifle debate and mock Billy. Did he not want anyone to look at his "data" in any depth.

Seems to be standard North behaviour at the moment. ie. Bullshit backed up by shoot the messenger.

James doesn't have to justify himself by the disturbed views of "Doctor Jolly", in fact no one does.

Simple.

Anyway, interpret that however you like, just keep that money rolling south.

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Then why do people cry out so loud to make the whole world hear them when we get compensated and tell us to go and relocate?

Why should it be any different from any other club? Why doesn't the AFL compensate us for exactly the amount or at least half the amount the big clubs get?

We live in a free market society. Why then, does North need to be compensated? It's like Aldi, saying they are disadvantaged because they don't have the "brand name" of Safeway and don't have as many customers as a result, so, just give them more money to make up for it. Where is the incentive to be your best and make your way in the world if the ruling body (the government or in THIS case the AFL) is just going to give you cash to make up for your shortcomings?

Last time I checked the socialist nature of the AFL is not confined to clubs making money. It is confined to the salary Cap, but a sucessful club who has built a strong culture through strong people can still make lots of money through good management.

And yet we have clubs like North getting money because they don't have the "clout" of the bigger clubs in regards to stadium deals. Sorry, but that's just bad luck in a free market.

Since when did North fans all become communists?

I've quoted these two because they live at the opposite extremes of Twitsville. Giantroo, I am unacquainted with, Dan 26 I unfortunately am, him being both the Lord Mayor and Village Idiot of the town.

The economics of sport clearly point to an optimal structure which includes some mechanism of equalisation that ensures a certain degree of cometitiveness. There is only one team sport on the planet in which the professional elite end thrives with little equalisation.

While insecure charlatan's like Dan who know very little preach some extreme "free-market" theory they don't understand, there is rich a area of economic research and theory that has formed the basis of the shift in both american and australian sport to adopt equalisation policies for the good of the game.

Here is an long article I have cherry-picked (which I haven't read) from Economist / ABC VFL commentator Ross Booth that I'm sure draws off much of this research.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PAO/is_4_23/ai_n8585478/pg_5

While the smaller Melboune clubs have been disadvantaged by the AFL's ground rationalisation and deserve either some compensation or the right to collectively seek a more appropriate venue (there is no "free-market" operating here at all), to suggest they deserve some arbitary amount equal to what the big clubs earn by filling these stadiums is silly.

The choice to survive as a small entity in a "saturated-market" (at the risk of devaluing footy by using a financial term) comes with a need to be aware of the full implications. The equalisation is not absolute and you need to except the reality of permenant disadvantage beyond the limits of this equalisation compared to the bigger clubs.

Also, there needs to be recognition the bigger clubs in Melbourne are generally more disadvantaged than the non-victorian clubs by the ongoing existance of the smaller Victorian clubs (travel and marginally lower average stadium costs being the exception). Which is why this whole kerfuffle over jumpers is a bit offensive.

 

[Hawkk]

James was showing figures of average crowd between us, the dockers, swans and, lions

The rough figures from memory were:

Average crowd

Lions - 28k
Roos- 36k
Swans 35k
Freo - 37k

The amountof money they earn from stadiums

Roos - 5.1 mill
Lions 9.1 mill
Freo 12.5 mill
Swans - i forgot but it was much bigger than ours

What he failed to mention was the fact that these clubs get such good stadium deals because they are the major tenants at their stadiums and draw 25-30000 of their fans to games week in, week out.

If your comparing like for like, North drew 36000 to their 8 Melbourne based home games last year (6 vs. Vic clubs, 2 vs. Non Vic clubs) 6 at the TD, 2 at the MCG. That is, 6 games that drew 70% capacity and 2 games that drew 35% capacity (compare that to Fremantle/Sydney/Brisbane that draw 80%+ capacity week in, week out)

In 6 of those games North probably had 40-50% crowd support with the other 2 drawing 70-80% crowd support (approx)

In other words, probably 18-19k North fans attend home games in Melbourne. Compare that to Fremantle (35k), Sydney (30k) and Brisbane (25k)

The reason why North have such a poor stadium deal is because they don't get enough North supporters coming to games to warrant the returns.

On top of that, supporters of non Victorian clubs generally fork out more for reserve seating. An average Lions reserve seat will set you back $300-400, even a decent seat at the GABBA will set you back $50 minimum...compare that to the MCG/TD where you can purchase a decent seat for $20-30

 

[Hawkk]

What Brayshaw said was true. Telstra Dome did special deals for Essendon, Carlton and to a lesser extent St Kilda and the dogs and Nth got shafted as usual. Similiarly at the MCG, Collingwood get a good deal, but Melbourne don't. Even Hawthorn receive compensation for their MCG deal.

The AFL have set up the fund to compensate for this.

Brownless was just trying to be a smart arse.

We get 250k, which compared to others is nothing

Im sure most clubs would happily forego the small amount they get from this package if the amount was pooled together and allocated equally to the 16 clubs.

 

[sydney eagle]

"Chaz Pendelbury" What is offensive to you about the ongoing kerfuffle over jumpers ? (I don't want to derail the thread I simply want to understand your position on the matter)

 

[Cap]

James doesn't have to justify himself by the disturbed views of "Doctor Jolly", in fact no one does.

Simple.

Anyway, interpret that however you like, just keep that money rolling south.

thats bullshit
he tries to make a point using skewed information then he does have to justify it.

Brashaw is using Kevin Rudd tatics - make big statements don't back them up and hope no-one asked questions till its too late

p.s i'm not a north hater - but by got you guys are paranoind - you should do a table on afl club supporters against expansion, would be interesting results

 

[The Teflon Dean]

What he failed to mention was the fact that these clubs get such good stadium deals because they are the major tenants at their stadiums and draw 25-30000 of their fans to games week in, week out.

If your comparing like for like, North drew 36000 to their 8 Melbourne based home games last year (6 vs. Vic clubs, 2 vs. Non Vic clubs) 6 at the TD, 2 at the MCG. That is, 6 games that drew 70% capacity and 2 games that drew 35% capacity (compare that to Fremantle/Sydney/Brisbane that draw 80%+ capacity week in, week out)

In 6 of those games North probably had 40-50% crowd support with the other 2 drawing 70-80% crowd support (approx)

In other words, probably 18-19k North fans attend home games in Melbourne. Compare that to Fremantle (35k), Sydney (30k) and Brisbane (25k)

The reason why North have such a poor stadium deal is because they don't get enough North supporters coming to games to warrant the returns.

Blaming lower numbers is not going to solve our problem overnight.

We have to deal with reality of the situation in order to survive and prosper, and the first thing that needs to be addressed is a better stadium deal, or a conglomeration of the 3 or 4 least attended Victorian clubs need to get together and start workshopping a boutique stadium (30K) to best meet their needs.

Watch Ian Collins completely shit his pants and do a backflip if that ever eventuates.

 

[The Teflon Dean]

thats bullshit
he tries to make a point using skewed information then he does have to justify it.

Brashaw is using Kevin Rudd tatics - make big statements don't back them up and hope no-one asked questions till its too late

p.s i'm not a north hater - but by got you guys are paranoind - you should do a table on afl club supporters against expansion, would be interesting results

Why? McGuire never has to do that, Kennett never has to do that, why does James have to do that? FFS, Demetriou doesn't have to do that? The ____ing PRIME MINISTER doesn't have to do that!

James is acting in the interests of the NMFC. No one elses.

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

"Chaz Pendelbury" What is offensive to you about the ongoing kerfuffle over jumpers ? (I don't want to derail the thread I simply want to understand your position on the matter)

Sydney, I appreciate your interest.

I'm obviously following this from a distance and so am probably not fully informed but I understand North are insisting on an outcome that could force the pies to play in something other than the sacred stripes against them next year. This is deeply offensive to most Collingwood supporters including myself and leaves deep teeth shaped punctures all over our collective hands

Chaz

 

[fossman]

[

QUOTE=The Teflon Dean;11193871]Blaming lower numbers is not going to solve our problem overnight.

We have to deal with reality of the situation in order to survive and prosper, and the first thing that needs to be addressed is a better stadium deal, or a conglomeration of the 3 or 4 least attended Victorian clubs need to get together and start workshopping a boutique stadium (30K) to best meet their needs.

Watch Ian Collins completely shit his pants and do a backflip if that ever eventuates.

[/QUOTE]


At least that would be pro active. A boutique stadium deal makes sense for the smaller clubs. What ever the crowd numbers a team pulls on average surely the break even points should be the same for all clubs. ie if north and essendon both pull 32,000 to a game then they should make the same amount. I have no idea how it works. Brayshaw raised the matter and then shut down the conversation leaving every body none the wiser as to what the situation actually is.

 

[Hoops]

At least that would be pro active. A boutique stadium deal makes sense for the smaller clubs. What ever the crowd numbers a team pulls on average surely the break even points should be the same for all clubs. ie if north and essendon both pull 32,000 to a game then they should make the same amount. I have no idea how it works. Brayshaw raised the matter and then shut down the conversation leaving every body none the wiser as to what the situation actually is.

Unfortunately this will not happen, For some reason the AFL decides where each team play (refer to my previous post about geelong not getting the extra SS game and the 2 MCG games) And I can't see them allowing other clubs band together to take on the TD which the AFL have on going deals and ties with.

 

[ozasismick]

!! Oh no! The AFL are socialists! There's a Red North Melbourne - Brayshaw Brigade official under every bed!! Kill them! Burn them! Quick, call Team America: World Police!!!

You snapper head...

F&*k yeah!!

 

[Doctor Jolly]

Blaming lower numbers is not going to solve our problem overnight.

We have to deal with reality of the situation in order to survive and prosper, and the first thing that needs to be addressed is a better stadium deal, or a conglomeration of the 3 or 4 least attended Victorian clubs need to get together and start workshopping a boutique stadium (30K) to best meet their needs.

Watch Ian Collins completely shit his pants and do a backflip if that ever eventuates.

There was a boutique stadium in action not that long ago called optus oval. It proved very unpopular, so much so that its own tenant pulled out in preference to the dome. There is also one 50km down the road in Geelong thats avaliable, and one 2000km away on the gold coast which you are currently using. Doesnt seem to help matters.

A "boutique" stadium that can make profit from a 10,000 to 20,000 crowd would need to be build/refurbish to such a low standard (ala Olympic park) that it would drive down crowds making your worse off.
The AFL, quite rightly, want AFL games played at spectator friendly venue with a high level of comfort.

 

[BacharHouli_43]

What Billy was asking was why dont they back to the old system, but what nobody realises is that revenue from stadium deals would have tripled over the past 10 years. Expenses from footy clubs have pretty uch doubled since 2000 as well (from memory). You can't go back to playing at Optus Oval etc. coz you still get more money for playing at Telstra Dome.

What Billy should have said is that, the figures actually suggest that 9 teams in 1 city doesn't go as demonstrated by the difference in the stadium deals, so a couple of teams must go.

On the other hand, the AFL has plenty in reserve to cover the consistent half a million dollar losses that some clubs will make going into the future.

 

[Doctor Jolly]

What Billy was asking was why dont they back to the old system, but what nobody realises is that revenue from stadium deals would have tripled over the past 10 years. Expenses from footy clubs have pretty uch doubled since 2000 as well (from memory). You can't go back to playing at Optus Oval etc. coz you still get more money for playing at Telstra Dome.

What Billy should have said is that, the figures actually suggest that 9 teams in 1 city doesn't go as demonstrated by the difference in the stadium deals, so a couple of teams must go.

On the other hand, the AFL has plenty in reserve to cover the consistent half a million dollar losses that some clubs will make going into the future.

But the AFL should be spending that on grass roots footy, rather than proping up clubs with no chance of viability. It may well be all well and dandy with the AFL is loaded, but it wont always be, and efficiency gains should be taken whereever possible.

Rationalisation of vic clubs is well over due.

 

[The Teflon Dean]

There was a boutique stadium in action not that long ago called optus oval. It proved very unpopular, so much so that its own tenant pulled out in preference to the dome. There is also one 50km down the road in Geelong thats avaliable,

Optus Oval could be plausible. Perhaps Messrs Pratt, Brayshaw, Smorgon, Gardiner and Westaway could all get together for a little chat on how to put Collo out of a job?

and one 2000km away on the gold coast which you are currently using. Doesnt seem to help matters.

By christ you're a halfwit. You are aware that we get $400,000 every time we play there? I'm almost certain I have seen you repetitiously refer to this on your daily ramblings of the evils of the NMFC.

You. Idiot.

A "boutique" stadium that can make profit from a 10,000 to 20,000 crowd would need to be build/refurbish to such a low standard (ala Olympic park) that it would drive down crowds making your worse off.

The AFL, quite rightly, want AFL games played at spectator friendly venue with a high level of comfort.

At the end of the day I comfort myself in the knowledge that you are only "Doctor Jolly" cyberknob, and no-ones whose opinions are of any real relevance, let alone bordering on factual.

The only thing that I'm really interested in is that you attend your Sydney Football Club (AKA NMFC's piggy bank) games, buy those crappy products advertised on television during the half time breaks and keep that money coming south.

 

[Rob]

thats bullshit
he tries to make a point using skewed information then he does have to justify it.

Brashaw is using Kevin Rudd tatics - make big statements don't back them up and hope no-one asked questions till its too late

Exactly. Make unjustifiable claims, blame it on something that is in the most part irrelevant, and if you ask questions then you're a serial North hater.