Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[Blue__Balls]

The revisionists are trying their hardest but this was nothing but a terrible outcome for us. It doesn't matter if Daniher didn't get done - Papley nominated us, everyone said it was a done deal, and we didn't get him. We just have to hope it was the Swans that kept him stranded and not us, so he isn't bitter about coming next year. We'll have to wait until November to know if we get Martin or not. The entire basis of the pick swap with Adelaide was that we'd trade this pick for a proven player, and we haven't... that trade can now only be seen as a failure. I don't think anyone should be devastated, but it's very disappointing because I absolutely believe there are list managers out there who could have got these deals done, SOS clearly isn't one of them

Hahahahahaha!

Ha!

Ha!

Revisionists?

Claiming the trade with Adelaide last year is now graded a fail because we didn't land Papley with Pick 9? Laughable.

Seriously, slap yourself upside the head and put the toys back in the cot.

Sydney put 9 on the table to Essendon in multiple offers, they were clearly prepared to trade with us if it would secure Papley. There's nothing to suggest we tried to lowball or strongarm Sydney - if anything, it was clear we were offering perceived overs, but the deal hinged on Essendon agreeing to trade Daniher.

The only way to get Papley in this scenario would have been to offer massive overs, which would have been irresponsible. Look at St Kilda - yeah, they got Hill, Jones, Howard, Ryder and Butler. They also lost Steve, Acres and Bruce, and don't have a pick until the 70s this year. They're also down a second and fourth next year, but picked up a third. They've sold the farm, and if they don't come good immediately then they've shot themselves in the foot for the next decade. I'm glad we didn't take that route.

Gold Coast are making a statement. It's one I don't think helps them though - mixed messages, we'll trade Ah Chee for token picks, but not Martin for a second and change. There's no flak coming Carlton's way on this, players won't be shy of nominating Carlton in future, but clubs will certainly be wary of dealing with the Suns. Maybe that's what they want, to discourage clubs from coming after their players moving forward. Reckon there will be a few more Suns players looking to jump ship ASAP though, knowing that giving the club decent service for 7 years is not going to be seen as loyal enough. Martin still gets to where he wants to be, neither the Suns nor Demons have the cap space to take him on a huge 1-year contract. And even if the Suns could fit him in, imagine how the rest of their players would be feeling if their club paid a bloke who wanted out $1.2mil for one season just to spite him? More than anyone else on their list is getting?

Ultimately - only 27 players moved clubs this year. It was an absolute fizzer of a trade period, and made a mockery of the AFL's attempts to create drama. It was 3 weeks of talking about what Daniher was worth, only for nothing to happen there.

Club by club:
Adelaide - went backwards, they're down 3 starting 22 players and most of their frontline depth, and in return got a bunch of late picks.
Port - went backwards, traded out a quality youngster and half their ruck depth, and will go back to the draft.
Richmond - went backwards (can afford to), lost a best 22 wingman and a depth small forward for late picks.
Freo - went backwards, lost two best 22 runners for two lesser best 22 runners, but will hit the draft hard.
Geelong - went backwards, lost one of the best mids in the comp, replaced him with a fat mid and a seagull key forward, will hit the draft too.

Collingwood - in a holding pattern, swapped a depth flanker for a depth ruckman, and have a poor draft hand to boot.
Melbourne - holding pattern, added some outside run but shafted their already suspect backline.
Essendon - holding pattern, added some depth players but didn't address key needs.
North - in a holding pattern, brought in an unproven Bonar, bowed out of the first round, but have a stronger draft hand next year for what that's worth.
Brisbane - in a holding pattern, swapped some depth players for some other depth players.
GWS - holding pattern, swapped a best 22 winger for an aging best 22 ruckman, lost Bonar and Patton for chips.
Sydney - in a holding pattern, swapped Jones for Taylor and otherwise will replenish through the draft.

Gold Coast - slight improvement (so far), brought in a best 22 winger and some depth players, losing one, maybe two, talented young players. AFL assistance trumps all though.
Hawthorn - improved, brought in two best 22 players (one with injury risk) for not much of note.
Bulldogs - improved, brought in two best 22 talls and paid peanuts.
West Coast - improved, picked up an elite mid but at the cost of two drafts.
St Kilda - improved, brought in a handful of best 22 players and added some depth, but paid a mint.

Make your own judgement on the Blues - swapped a depth ruckman for a younger, better depth ruckman, and brought in Eddie Betts in an area of need, plus still have Martin still on the cards for free. Have we gone backwards, stayed about the same, or improved in some capacity?

 

[FRUMPY]

If there was a chance Papley got to us without Daniher by just paying Pick 9 outright - we should have 100% done it. So I'm miffed we couldn't get the deal across, and pi**ed that such a good operator in SOS let Dodo dictate our results (again it could be argued).

FMD - why didn't we trade pick 9 for Dustin Martin? (same answer as to why we didn't trade pick 9 to the swans for Papley)

 

[FRUMPY]

If you think you are having a bad, I just witness a poor lady fall over some stairs and dropped her $1 7-11 coffee.

she'll probably blame SOS

 

[FRUMPY]

Don't underestimate the likelihood of the AFL giving us a final finger by not enacting a PSD.

Fingers crossed.

If a player nominates for the PSD, the PSD happens.........................................................................................................

not hard to work out, I would have thought

 

[Funk]

So is everyone over there little tanty's now... finished tossing the toys out of the pram?

Good... SOS has responded well to what was basically an attempted strong arm effort from GC17, and by extension the AFL, to hand over another top 10 pick to good old Gold Coast.

SOS offered up a number of good deals to GC17, who was apparently under instructions from the AFL to be harder at the negotiating table. But it helps to be tough at the negotiating table when you are in a position of strength. Unfortunately for them, they were trying to be tough negotiators from a position of weakness. Martin is uncontracted and will now be pi**ed off with GC17 because of the stupid stance that they took... especially after trading Ah Chee for two 2020 picks... I'm sure you all know which rounds they are in. SOS looked at their final offer and told them to pound sand before walking out of the room laughing at their weak efforts.

Mind you, he came across as a bit perturbed with both GC17's list manager and that stupid twat from * who basically wasted the whole trade period for us and pretty much for Shitney. Mind you, he did screw Dodoro over when he got pick 57 and 70 for Phillips and 61 and 72. Shit, I would have taken pick 70 on it's own for Phillips after doing a Grigg on us.

As for the deal with Shitney for Papley, it was always going to be dependent on the Daniher trade and when that collapsed, Shitney no longer needed pick 9 so the Papley deal died in the arse. What sort of deadshit a-hole wants 2 first round picks for a guy who has hardly got on the field in the last 2 years... oh that's right... it's Dodoro. I'm certain that the guy cooks his own bread at home every day... a bit of a master baker if you will.

Now, I've heard a whole lot of "what about plan B" on Farcebook and on Twitter... we should have taken Butler... or Cutler... why didn't we look at some other small forward? Scak SOS... this has been a failure of a trade period!

Why?

Butler has played 22 games in the last 2 years... and has only played 45 games over the course of his 5 season career so far! Butler kicked 53 goals from his 45 games at Premiershipmond... massive!
Cutler has played a whopping 66 games in 6 seasons at the paddlepops and only played 3 games this year. He has kicked a whopping 32 goals... in 66 matches.

Lewis Taylor... 112 games, 88 goals, 5 games this year.
Callum Ah Chee... 45 games, 24 goals. 1 game this year.

There is a reason why all 4 of those guys went for late picks and played bugger all games this year... they are not A grade small forwards.

Eddie had a poor year by his standards... he played 21 games and kicked 37 goals. If we want an experienced depth small forward... we could always pick up Jeffy as a DFA.

Now... I don't know about you lot, but I am actually pretty happy that we walked out of the trade period with a good backup to Kreuzer for bugger all, and we also got back Eddie for 12 months to act as a player/mentor. I'm also happy that GC17 have managed to screw themselves with Martin because he is out of contract and will walk into the PSD and probably as for a 12 month 1.2 million dollar contract. Out of GC17, the Dees and us... Carlton are the only team that can afford that sort of contract. I'm not saying that we would be so crass as to tamper with the PSD and get Martin to screw his old club... but fu** it... they have 4 top 20 picks. If they can't pick up some serious talent with that lot, they need to offer SOS 2 million a year to go to the Gold Coast for 3 years and rebuild their entire list.

Carlton need to play the long game.

Nothing to be gained (medium/long term) by massively overpaying for smalls in 2019.

Sure we don’t currently have Papley/Martin.

But we’ve still got 1 x 2019 R1 Pick plus 2020 R1 & R2.

Lots we can do with these.

 

[jj1978]

Why are so many kicking SOS... lets look at what we know!

• Papley was all but sorted pending Daniher - has been stated by Dodo himself that pick 9 (our pick) was offered as part of the trade.
• Martin - we offered fair price for him, and have no doubt SOS did the groundwork ensuring that we'd be more than a good chance to land him in the PSD otherwise (probably has a silent agreement with Melbourne that he'll fall through to our pick 3). This one is on the stupidity of GC and definitely impacts future clubs trading with them.
• Then we hear about where was our plan B... well SOS clearly said this morning that plan B was to take pick 9 to the draft... guess we didn't rate the other cr@p that was available.
• Our list management is fine... only 1 Carlton player asked to be traded of which we prepared for via a contingency plan. We're not over the cap and won't be in strife like some other teams will be this time next year (Pies, GWS, Richmond).

In the end lets reflect on this period at the end of the drafts etc... At present we still most likely will have 3/4 of our targets (Martin probably will still be a Blue).

 

[CGilly]

Nah, Pick 4 for Pick 9, Stocker and Martin is a great deal....you just can't possibly say anything different

how is Martin part of that trade at all

 

[zeggie]

...and toes.

Best solution for all parties, Gold Coast delist Martin and he can go to his preferred destination.

Problem is even with live pick trading the AFL will never allow it. Would set a scary precedent (to them) as they are hellbent on restricting players ability to move and the AFLPA's power.

I'm expecting to see an arbitration/waiver system, similar to MLB, proposed by the AFLPA when the current CBA expires. Otherwise we will see far increased incidents of players being refused moves, players (mid to high tier, not the top 5%) resisting long term contracts and players exiting for free.

The current system only protects draftees, minimum salary earners (the bottom ~20-30%) of the league and the top tier players (top ~5% of the league). Players in the middle get shafted a lot of the time.

 

[lily of laguna]

My reading of the tea leaves from the wash up. Bearing in mind I'm 50 pages behind and about as far away from being ITK as you can get.

Papley deal; Syd agreed to our offer, stating to SOS "if we can move in Daniher, done". Deal involved 25 or 2020 2nd to assist with Martin.
That's why Syd offered 9 to Dodo. Sos expects Syd to get their man as they have made a commitment.

Martin deal; Gold coast want 1st rounder cos AFL has gifted them top picks so later picks have no value, SOS offers SYD pick (25 or 2020 2nd)
plus our 2020 2nd if we get the Papley deal done (overs but we made a commitment). Agreed to in principle but Papley deal falls over with 45mins to go, SOS says "we can't offer 2 x 2nds, we can offer 2nd + 3rd rounder, Gold Coast say no deal. SOS won't offer a 1st (cos that's stupid overs), and we can get him by other means.

SOS having given both players his commitment, does not nor cannot say to SYD "we'll give you til Sunday arvo" or whatever, cos he is not backing away from his commitment to get Papley to the club.

Didn't work out cos Ess and Syd can't get a deal done.............................bummer but move on.

 

[FoeverBlues]

Port Sam Gray is OOC and not traded, we still can pick him up as DFA for small fwd role & Pick up J Martin as PSD

 

[HBF]

We received overs for Gibbs. Sos should have paid the king's ransom for Papley for mine. Especially in circumstances where we can draft Martin in the PSD.

Papley wasn't available.

 

[Opine]

Don't underestimate the likelihood of the AFL giving us a final finger by not enacting a PSD.

Fingers crossed.

I’m hazarding to guess that if it becomes clear that MartIn wont enter into a new agreement with GCS, and that D’s won’t select him, the AFL will give GCS the green light to delist him; thus saving time, energy, and cost on holding a PSD.

 

[Funk]

I reckon sos is too hard when it comes to trades. He needs to ease up a little...so what if we pay slight overs in some cases. We were hanging it on saints but somehow they managed to get so many trades done. It’s been mentioned here a lot that we have money to burn and still struggle to get high quality players in. MM was a good get but not too many others to speak of.

LOL.......

SOS got bagged on BF because he paid overs for MM.

Now he gets bagged for not overpaying for Papley/Martin.

This place....................

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

So you havnt listed any small forwards to target and martin isn't a small fwd so why does it change to a B+ if getting martin doesn't fill our'' biggest need'?

Eddie's just gonna have to fill boots the size of his pants now. I'm still confident.

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

...and toes.

Head,
Shoulders,
Knees,

 

[djholmes]

Who said Wines was even available? A person connected to him? Denied by all officials associated in any fashion. A troll calls Carlton and says, "Do you be any Wines, he is available." Now it's fact. Please.

I take it you wouldn't read SOS comments in the media today...

 

[FRUMPY]

Papley wasn't available.

Its tough to grasp apparently

 

[djholmes]

LOL.......

SOS got bagged on BF because he paid overs for MM.

Now he gets bagged for not overpaying for Papley/Martin.

This place....................

Mate, we didn't need Mitch McGovern.... We already had 2 talls. But do we need a goal kicking half forward and a small forward? Yes. So yes, SOS totally bottled this trade period.

 

[FRUMPY]

I take it you wouldn't read SOS comments in the media today...

What were his comments? Did port offer to trade Wines? Even if Wines wanted to leave, Port wouldn't have traded him and not for pick 9 (see Essendon and the swans as an example of clubs not giving up their contracted player)

 

[reubsblues]

Pick 9 will wanna be a gun
If hawks Geelong had a player like papley nominate them they 100% would of got the deal done because there list mangers are better than clubs like Carlton gold coast and Essendon

 

[djholmes]

So sick of these Carlton supporters thinking this trade period wasn't a disaster. Look the balls that Brisbane had to trade out its pick. We will still be "rebuilding" next year. What a joke SOS is.

 

[bluemahogany]

If Gold Coast had any decency or respect they'll delist Martin now knowing there is no chance he is coming back there and at least keep a professional relationship. What's the point of leaving Martin stranded for the next 45 days if the outcome is inevitable?

 

[CGilly]

Hahahahahaha!

Ha!

Ha!

Revisionists?

Claiming the trade with Adelaide last year is now graded a fail because we didn't land Papley with Pick 9? Laughable.

Seriously, slap yourself upside the head and put the toys back in the cot.

Sydney put 9 on the table to Essendon in multiple offers, they were clearly prepared to trade with us if it would secure Papley. There's nothing to suggest we tried to lowball or strongarm Sydney - if anything, it was clear we were offering perceived overs, but the deal hinged on Essendon agreeing to trade Daniher.

The only way to get Papley in this scenario would have been to offer massive overs, which would have been irresponsible. Look at St Kilda - yeah, they got Hill, Jones, Howard, Ryder and Butler. They also lost Steve, Acres and Bruce, and don't have a pick until the 70s this year. They're also down a second and fourth next year, but picked up a third. They've sold the farm, and if they don't come good immediately then they've shot themselves in the foot for the next decade. I'm glad we didn't take that route.

Gold Coast are making a statement. It's one I don't think helps them though - mixed messages, we'll trade Ah Chee for token picks, but not Martin for a second and change. There's no flak coming Carlton's way on this, players won't be shy of nominating Carlton in future, but clubs will certainly be wary of dealing with the Suns. Maybe that's what they want, to discourage clubs from coming after their players moving forward. Reckon there will be a few more Suns players looking to jump ship ASAP though, knowing that giving the club decent service for 7 years is not going to be seen as loyal enough. Martin still gets to where he wants to be, neither the Suns nor Demons have the cap space to take him on a huge 1-year contract. And even if the Suns could fit him in, imagine how the rest of their players would be feeling if their club paid a bloke who wanted out $1.2mil for one season just to spite him? More than anyone else on their list is getting?

Ultimately - only 27 players moved clubs this year. It was an absolute fizzer of a trade period, and made a mockery of the AFL's attempts to create drama. It was 3 weeks of talking about what Daniher was worth, only for nothing to happen there.

Club by club:
Adelaide - went backwards, they're down 3 starting 22 players and most of their frontline depth, and in return got a bunch of late picks.
Port - went backwards, traded out a quality youngster and half their ruck depth, and will go back to the draft.
Richmond - went backwards (can afford to), lost a best 22 wingman and a depth small forward for late picks.
Sydney - in a holding pattern, swapped Jones for Taylor and otherwise will replenish through the draft.
Freo - went backwards, lost two best 22 runners for two lesser best 22 runners, but will hit the draft hard.
Geelong - went backwards, lost one of the best mids in the comp, replaced him with a fat mid and a seagull key forward, will hit the draft too.

Collingwood - in a holding pattern, swapped a depth flanker for a depth ruckman, and have a poor draft hand to boot.
Melbourne - holding pattern, added some outside run but shafted their already suspect backline.
Essendon - holding pattern, added some depth players but didn't address key needs.
North - in a holding pattern, brought in an unproven Bonar, bowed out of the first round, but have a stronger draft hand next year for what that's worth.
Brisbane - in a holding pattern, swapped some depth players for some other depth players.
GWS - holding pattern, swapped a best 22 winger for an aging best 22 ruckman, lost Bonar and Patton for chips.

Gold Coast - slight improvement (so far), brought in a best 22 winger and some depth players, losing one, maybe two, talented young players. AFL assistance trumps all though.
Hawthorn - improved, brought in two best 22 players (one with injury risk) for not much of note.
Bulldogs - improved, brought in two best 22 talls and paid peanuts.
West Coast - improved, picked up an elite mid but at the cost of two drafts.
St Kilda - improved, brought in a handful of best 22 players and added some depth, but paid a mint.

Make your own judgement on the Blues - swapped a depth ruckman for a younger, better depth ruckman, and brought in Eddie Betts in an area of need, plus still have Martin still on the cards for free. Have we gone backwards, stayed about the same, or improved in some capacity?

look, I'm not going to slap myself upside the head, whatever that means, but genuinely thankyou for making me feel better about it. Like everyone I'm just dissapointed. But can someone explain the Martin situation to me... Like, the Gold Coast list management team can't be so dumb that Martin can now just go to the pre-season draft, can they? Why is there so much confidence we will just straight up get him for nothing?

 

[rezzi]

Still didn’t have a plan B.

Did you even read what he posted?
I would have thought the melts would have ended after a nice 8 hours but seems like they're gonna continue into today.

 

[Coops93]

Getting Eddie back looks better now, from a list management point of view. He'll start the season as the undisputed no.1 small forward now, and I know there's been debate about just how good he is, I'd say he's still in the top 10 SF's comfortably.

Someone posted overall scoreboard impact a little while back and was 3rd overall (I think it was a total combination of goals, assists, and involvements) in the league. So top 10 small forwards is being conservative.