Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[iAsbestos]

Dow has not requested a trade.

And why would he

 

[zeggie]

Not enough going Hawks way??? Don't forget we will save them $900K by signing Clarkson!

1. Mitchell is very likely to stay at the Hawks now that Clarko is outbound.
2. No way would they entertain your trade proposal regardless.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Clarkson on fox sports this morning said he is going to take a year off .

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Also I'm really grateful for any ITK input, as it can all change after they have got their Intel, but I think they are genuine at the time of posting
Thanks to all

On moto g(6) using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[azlou]

Thanks for squashing that mate

You’re scepticism was well founded didn’t smell right to me either

 

[footyfan1978]

Or maybe people just have different opinions, why the need to classify people as ' Teague apologists' against 'Revolutionaries" or 'The Clarksonites" or whatever you want to call people with an opposite view. That's the problem with this board atm, you can't give a simple opinion without being labeled. More debate and less throwing bombs at each other would be better.


Do you know that it's possible to disagree in a civilised manner?

Hopefully this crappy type of posting ceases, 2021 has seen some pitiful posting.

Well said.

 

[slashin_velvet]

you work in finance...and you can't understand the irrelevancy of 150K p.a. to an organisation that generates 10's of millions of dollars in revenue p.a.?
you work in finance and think because debt has been paid down that has anything to do with the continued cost of carrying bad assets?
you work in finance and don't understand that if you give away free memberships- the actual margin earned on each membership goes down?
you work in finance and don't understand that membership revenue isn't sponsorship revenue?
you work in finance and think 'sponsors' are stupid enough not to be able to distinguish between paid-up and free memberships?

ok champ - you keep working in finance.

Wait a second - if we have the cash to repay the debt, and no sufficient opportunities to appropriately invest the cash, then repaying the debt is appropriate.

The repayment of debt is a symptom of positive cash flow generation and a signpost to the less financially savy that we have our house in order (from a financial perspective). When you overlay the impact of COVID, its actually a good outcome for the club. We have invested in a women's team and have further investment in our facilities - if we can do those things without having to take out debt, then I don't see how that's not a good outcome.

I'm not saying Debt is bad, but we're not a "for profit" entity, so the ability to be self sufficient and not NEED debt is something we should be satisfied with. I do hope the club ensures it keeps prices down next year given most of us have paid for several years worth of membership without much benefit.

 

[Crippablues]

He may want a bigger and/or longer contract. No chance we extend his contract this off season. He may want certainty of his future. Plenty of examples of players going into the final year of their contract and injury has wrecked havoc.

After seeing glimpses of what he can do since round 6, why wouldn't thr club try and tie him down to a longer contract? He has 1 year left. If the club think he has potential and rival clubs are circling, you give him a 3 year contract and even if it doesn't work out, rival clubs are having to pay more as per the longevity of his contract.

On SM-N986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ferrisb]

I heard Dow requested to be traded last year.

But when he was delivering his request, he missed the List Management office and it was received by another team...

 

[zeggie]

After seeing glimpses of what he can do since round 6, why wouldn't thr club try and tie him down to a longer contract? He has 1 year left. If the club think he has potential and rival clubs are circling, you give him a 3 year contract and even if it doesn't work out, rival clubs are having to pay more as per the longevity of his contract.

On SM-N986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Well first of all, Dow didn't play round 6, and second you don't give 3 year contracts to players showing a "glimpse" after 4 seasons. His peak trade value is probably now. If we give him another 3 years and it "doesn't work out" he will have zero value, not more, and we'll be stuck with paying him...ala McGov.

 

[zeggie]

He also said he'll see out his contract. Media posturing. He's smart. He's keeping his value skyhigh. He'll need significant overs to coach in 2022.

 

[blue healer]

Interesting to hear that there is a lot of demand for the Carlton head coach position. All believe they can turn the club around very quickly. Showing inadequacy of current coaches in their pitches.

Still think its Clarksons' job.

Could also be that there's a big payday for a Carlton coach and they only have to do it for two years before a payout.

 

[Broadside]

if someone (Clarkson) only wants to coach for overs but actually feels they might want a break, it's a pass from me because the hunger has to be there for this job.

Ross Lyon looks famished.

 

[Blue__Balls]

You said this - its bullshit.


the kid has been a starting mid in the side for the last 3 months even round 5 before hurting his eye)

Has he been a starting mid since Round 12?

Does round 12 -> round 22 = approximately three months?

Was he a starting mid in Round 5 before he got smacked in the eye?

If the answer to these questions is "yes", then the post was quite the opposite of "bullshit".

 

[mickelboy182]

Well first of all, Dow didn't play round 6, and second you don't give 3 year contracts to players showing a "glimpse" after 4 seasons. His peak trade value is probably now. If we give him another 3 years and it "doesn't work out" he will have zero value, not more, and we'll be stuck with paying him...ala McGov.

Are there still Cam Polson defenders around here?

 

[blue healer]

I DON'T work in finance but my understanding was that when interest rates are low is exactly when you do carry debt because you can use that debt to generate more income than the cost of servicing the loan.

Also, I know someone who got a call from the club & they offered to roll over his membership for $1. He gets the member emails & shop stuff etc.

He counts as a member in the stats but the club is getting $1 which stands to your point about the revenue per membership being diluted & the membership numbers being very dodgy.

Are there figures published for revenue per membership and for other clubs for comparison purposes?

I have no dog in this race but getting a bit tired of the Liddle hate that some on here carry. We have far more problems than Liddle.

 

[Bostonian]

He hadn’t missed a game since round 12 where he was a starting mid, it’s now round 23.

And in 2021 we've had one outstanding midfielder, Kennedy I'll actually give some props to but the rest have been average and inconsistent and that includes Cripps.

It's why our midfield sucks.

 

[azlou]

Wait a second - if we have the cash to repay the debt, and no sufficient opportunities to appropriately invest the cash, then repaying the debt is appropriate.

The repayment of debt is a symptom of positive cash flow generation and a signpost to the less financially savy that we have our house in order (from a financial perspective). When you overlay the impact of COVID, its actually a good outcome for the club. We have invested in a women's team and have further investment in our facilities - if we can do those things without having to take out debt, then I don't see how that's not a good outcome.

I'm not saying Debt is bad, but we're not a "for profit" entity, so the ability to be self sufficient and not NEED debt is something we should be satisfied with. I do hope the club ensures it keeps prices down next year given most of us have paid for several years worth of membership without much benefit.

I think the point is that none of that should come at the expense of the football department
To say now we have the money to invest in the football side is a false economy we always had the money with low interest rates to service the loan and therefore invest in coaches and facilities
If our debt level has in any way been used to justify short changing the football department then they have there priorities wrong
On field success would be a financial success

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

Are there still Cam Polson defenders around here?

He showed a lot of “promise” didn’t he!

 

[FRUMPY]

Are there still Cam Polson defenders around here?

every carlton player at some point is a superstar on here

 

[Coops93]

He showed a lot of “promise” didn’t he!

Feel like Cuningham is the new Polson. So much promise and shows it once every 6 or 7 games and everyone locks him in the team for the season.

 

[Crippablues]

Well first of all, Dow didn't play round 6, and second you don't give 3 year contracts to players showing a "glimpse" after 4 seasons. His peak trade value is probably now. If we give him another 3 years and it "doesn't work out" he will have zero value, not more, and we'll be stuck with paying him...ala McGov.

"Round 6" was a typo, was supposed to be 7, then I dont think he missed a game after that. If you don't give 3 year contracts for the reason you just mentioned, then why would another club do the same. If he was leaving, he would be leaving for a longer-term contract as security. Mcgoverns was front loaded so very different to dow who hasn't been given a big money deal as of yet

On SM-N986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JustaBattler]

Wait a second - if we have the cash to repay the debt, and no sufficient opportunities to appropriately invest the cash, then repaying the debt is appropriate.

The repayment of debt is a symptom of positive cash flow generation and a signpost to the less financially savy that we have our house in order (from a financial perspective). When you overlay the impact of COVID, its actually a good outcome for the club. We have invested in a women's team and have further investment in our facilities - if we can do those things without having to take out debt, then I don't see how that's not a good outcome.

I'm not saying Debt is bad, but we're not a "for profit" entity, so the ability to be self sufficient and not NEED debt is something we should be satisfied with. I do hope the club ensures it keeps prices down next year given most of us have paid for several years worth of membership without much benefit.

On your first paragraph - absolutely correct - however , who says and why they say what is an appropriate investment to be made or not and when - is indeed the more important issue.

On your second paragraph - absolutely correct - however, positive cashflow (in any period) is a function of both expenditure choices ( reduction) and investment choices ( absence)


On your third paragraph ...

Correct - Carlton IS a not for profit - its' only responsibility ( a responsibility underwritten by the AFL as far as debt goes anyway) is to be able to afford the 'cost' of any 'investment' it chooses to make and the 'cost' is the cost of capital at any point in time - the interest rate is the obvious - satisfying any caveats that 'benefactor' who donate money to the Club may have as another 'cost' of capital - making a compromise between competing objectives - football department expenditure V facilities V marketing V etc etc etc etc is another form of 'cost'...

my original point was that Liddle (and MLG's 'bragging' about eliminating debt ( in this accounting period ) says nothing, has zero content, is meaningless as far as 'achievement' goes - for two reasons - firstly the actual cost of carrying the debt is so low as to be irrelevant and secondly - eliminating debt ( and NOT having any other uses for the deployment of this debt-funded capital) may or may not signal poor management anyway - which just underlines the self-serving nuffery of the announcement anyway - because there is no context - except 'selling' a supposed positive to 'members as some form of achievement.

Regarding membership pricing : I hope the Club finds the 'sweet spot' regarding clearing for maximising demand for its membership versus supply - this is the revenue optimizing market-clearing calc that should be focused on as far as maximising income to the Club and maximising utility to members at the same time.

 

[Arr0w]

Dow played 2 games between round 5 and round 14. God you talk bullshit.

You are the one that keeps talking bullshit

Hasn't missed since round 12, round 13 was a bye

Averaged less than 11 touches over rounds 2-4, as a mid, sub round 5

Sent back to find the footy, injured round 7, sent back to find the footy

Just stop

 

[BigFrizz36]

Are there figures published for revenue per membership and for other clubs for comparison purposes?

I have no dog in this race but getting a bit tired of the Liddle hate that some on here carry. We have far more problems than Liddle.

Yep, the financial figures at the end of the year will show membership income for this year, which can be compared to last year and other clubs. I suspect that he will make another significant profit in pretty tough circumstances. I gave the details of a friend (long lapsed member) for one of the promotional memberships this year. He didn't get to go this year but has already renewed for next year. Sounds like a good plan to me.