Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[Weiterbot23]

You know what I’m not happy with, injures, they’ve bloody killed us for two years.
The Carlton way has always been to sack the coach… yep let’s do that.

Or maybe let’s tinker the game plan and get support for him?

The media, especially that piece of work Caro, have been after him even before a ball was bounced this year and everyone’s jumped on board.

We have 15 on our list unavailable this weekend and I think only 7 Carlton listed players are playing reserve’s tomorrow.

But if we win tomorrow, we’re one game out of the 8.

As I said I find it staggering people are calling for his head, all things considered.

I hate being an impatient "sack the coach" kind of a guy and realise it hasn't been easy with many players in and out.

But there are fundamental issues with the gameplan, particularly defensively, the efforts of Jones and Weitering have been spectacular but we are still losing.

There is no system behind the ball, we need to dominate 100% of the game to win, a 5 minutes down patch can be 4 goals against.

At no point in Teagues tenure has a 30 point lead been safe, even against Adelaide at home they got within a goal.

He has th cattle, is a great guy but Carlton are not finishing top 4 with him as coach.

 

[Beast__Mode]

Yeah I agree with that mostly, love the reference as well

People are still scarred by Mick and Denis though and I do see where that comes from...

My post was 98% a self critique. At this point I’d happily win with a soccer score if it meant a flag. I’m sure that points to a deep rooted character flaw on which I should seek a professional opinion.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Emphasis on the bolded - this hasn't been the case since 2017, when Paul Roos described us in those terms.

The loss of Neil Craig shows the significance of a coaching mentor, but the senior coach still needs to be there philosophically - unfortunately for Teague, there's no special prize for being the most entertaining team.

Totally agree with this, I do wonder if this can be changed though. I think even the last 5 weeks or so we have seen us putting players behind the ball more so maybe there is hope yet

 

[2blue4u]

I hate being an impatient "sack the coach" kind of a guy and realise it hasn't been easy with many players in and out.

But there are fundamental issues with the gameplan, particularly defensively, the efforts of Jones and Weitering have been spectacular but we are still losing.

There is no system behind the ball, we need to dominate 100% of the game to win, a 5 minutes down patch can be 4 goals against.

At no point in Teagues tenure has a 30 point lead been safe, even against Adelaide at home they got within a goal.

He has th cattle, is a great guy but Carlton are not finishing top 4 with him as coach.

Has the cattle? We have one of the poorest midfields in the comp and have done for years. Carltons solution was to go pay a half back flanker top dollar to help our midfield. How has that worked out so far? Personally i do not look at our team and say we have the cattle. All the best teams in the comp bat deep in the midfield. How deep does ours bat? You could also say that in a lot of games we have been in front or at minimum been in games to win them against the best opposition. So to me 90% of the time the game plan works otherwise we would be belted by 10+ goals. I put it down to players. I think people for some reason like to keep giving players an out. I am not sure which players you refer to as being the cattle. You need 22 cattle out their on game day but our list does not bat that deep.

 

[bendigoblues]

Has the cattle? We have one of the poorest midfields in the comp and have done for years. Carltons solution was to go pay a half back flanker top dollar to help our midfield. How has that worked out so far? Personally i do not look at our team and say we have the cattle. All the best teams in the comp bat deep in the midfield. How deep does ours bat? You could also say that in a lot of games we have been in front or at minimum been in games to win them against the best opposition. So to me 90% of the time the game plan works otherwise we would be belted by 10+ goals. I put it down to players. I think people for some reason like to keep giving players an out. I am not sure which players you refer to as being the cattle. You need 22 cattle out their on game day but our list does not bat that deep.

mouth solution has also been to draft midfielders and play them as backmen.

It feels like the selection committee have been trying to be too smart for their own good.

play people in the positions we drafted them as and we may see results

 

[B if i Know]

Noticed a change in how at least 2 players in particular have had their roles changed recently....Dow and SPS.
Just speculating that this has happened since Power took over from Barker.
Also noted that Adelaide struggled to move the ball quickly against us last week....something Syd and WC appeared to do a lot more. Again, just speculation on my part, but I am noticing subtle changes from the Coaching evident in the past few weeks. Adelaide got within 14pts by mid/late 3rd qtr, but we managed to hold them off....Again, something we haven't been able to do this year....Curnow thrown in to tag after 1/2 time.....something has changed.
As for selection this week, around 600 games of experience were lost through injury/suspension....is this the right time to bring in Ramsay/Honey who have played 1 game between them, especially given we will only be 1 game out of the 8 if we win tonight. I don't think this season is gone yet....so getting games into youngsters is not the priority for me....
Hoping these observations are real.....and that we win tonight.

 

[Santo the king]

I must be the odd one out.

I look at the players who allowed us to win games this year and outside of Jones and cameos from betts, its none of the older players.

Our midfield remains our weakest area, however its also where we have scope for greatest near term improvement via dow, sps, stocker and tdk.

Our foundation is pretty good, with our best players all very young.

My opinion aside on why we are so inconsistent, and how impatient i am for us to take the next step. I dont think we are that far away.

Off field we are now finally in a financial position to make moves and provide necessary support.

 

[tarczonandjane]

I must be the odd one out.

I look at the players who allowed us to win games this year and outside of Jones and cameos from betts, its none of the older players.

Our midfield remains our weakest area, however its also where we have scope for greatest near term improvement via dow, sps, stocker and tdk.

Our foundation is pretty good, with our best players all very young.

My opinion aside on why we are so inconsistent, and how impatient i am for us to take the next step. I dont think we are that far away.

Off field we are now finally in a financial position to make moves and provide necessary support.

I’ll be honest that I haven’t looked at it like this, and have been far more gloomy. I like the more optimistic take on things. Thank you.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Just on our development.

Fingers crossed Dows game last week is a sign of things to come but atleast he is actually showing something. Personally I think what we have done with him this season has been spot on. Got sent to the twos to play full time mid and has earned his spot back into the side and played his natural position.
SPS wasn’t cutting it in the AFL as a defender, went back to the twos to play a new role and earned his way back into the side and played that role on the weekend. Wait and see for him. It’s taken too long but hopefully he comes good. I think I’m on my own on this but I do worry that his most natural positions now require good gut runners for at the very least team balance, that’s also his biggest weakness.
TDK’s development I wouldn’t question.
Stocker I’d like to see more midfield but honestly if he continues to build on last weeks game I would be happy. I mean maybe he could be our poor mans Hodge. He also might have some fairly simple fitness levels he needs to meet before they will put him in there. Who knows the club might actually be driving improving our standards that we have all been crying out for.
Players like Cottrell and SOS I think are getting the maximum out of their talent.
I have hope but maybe LOB is a bust, I mean plenty were calling it in his draft year and it’s natural to have them.
Owies has been brilliant.
Weitering, Walsh and McKay are in AA form.
Setterfield is the most disappointing. Putting him on the wing was moronic but for me what has been even more disappointing has been his intensity when he actually does play. I’m really off him and he was one of my favourites.
Kennedy in career best form, I don’t know if it’s sustainable but he earned another chance and he has been great.
If Fogarty could actually kick straight at goals we would be loving him. He is another though who I couldn’t really question our development of and has improved. On what he showed at Geelong.
Cuningham, Curnow, Fisher and Marchbank hurt.
I’d love to see Honey get given a month.
carroll, Durdin, Kemp etc are still building.

It’s taken too long for some of the changes we’ve made but if you spend an entire offseason having high expectations of the team then you are probably going to stick to your guns longer then you should in the expectation things will change. Unfortunately we aren’t the side we thought we would be and none of the young midfielders aside from Walsh have taken the next step. If Dow actually steps up for the rest of the season, which he is given every opportunity to do then things really won’t look too bad.
A weak game plan and a horrible midfield makes players look worse then they are too

 

[Stamos]

Has the cattle? We have one of the poorest midfields in the comp and have done for years. Carltons solution was to go pay a half back flanker top dollar to help our midfield. How has that worked out so far? Personally i do not look at our team and say we have the cattle. All the best teams in the comp bat deep in the midfield. How deep does ours bat? You could also say that in a lot of games we have been in front or at minimum been in games to win them against the best opposition. So to me 90% of the time the game plan works otherwise we would be belted by 10+ goals. I put it down to players. I think people for some reason like to keep giving players an out. I am not sure which players you refer to as being the cattle. You need 22 cattle out their on game day but our list does not bat that deep.

We're competitive purely on talent, our system is junk.
Our stoppage set-up, and the way we spread has more to do with our midfield being so poor than the players there.
And if we'd played our talent to their strengths in positions that suit, our midfield might look quite a bit deeper currently.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Fagan would be counting his lucky stars he went to Brisbane and not us.

Reckon if **** had of come to us instead of DT. Then right now, we would be 6th or 7th on the ladder imo.

 

[no fate]

We're competitive purely on talent, our system is junk.
Our stoppage set-up, and the way we spread has more to do with our midfield being so poor than the players there.
And if we'd played our talent to their strengths in positions that suit, our midfield might look quite a bit deeper currently.

100%. Nothing to add.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I expect Lyon to be our coach in 2022. Hope Voss comes to us too to work with our midfield

 

[2blue4u]

We're competitive purely on talent, our system is junk.
Our stoppage set-up, and the way we spread has more to do with our midfield being so poor than the players there.
And if we'd played our talent to their strengths in positions that suit, our midfield might look quite a bit deeper currently.

Just wondering who all this talent is you speak of? I think you are purely basing it on potential rather than actual talent. We have 2 good mids and that is it. Amazing though since Barker gone Kennedy is one to obviously benefit from it. But potential is not talent. No matter which position players are played in effort takes no skill. I guess when players say they just want to play their role it is all just bs. How does a team get to half time and over half the team have not laid a tackle eg Sydney game. The game plan for most part holds up for 90% of the game. Is Teague perfect? By no means is he is not. But when do the players actually take some responsibility?

 

[Gethelred]

The players are a huge part of the decision (or should be).

It doesn’t have to be Lyon, just someone experienced and “tougher” IMO.

No, they certainly ****ing shouldn't.

The tail wags the dog at Carlton, and has for far too long. Let's not lean into that, not again.

 

[RoyalBlues]

But when do the players actually take some responsibility?

During games where there was some agro and a spark was needed (midway against Essendon, after halftime against Hawthorn and nearing quarter time against Adelaide) the fire in the players encouraged a rapid turnaround in the game and an eventual win.

That’s when players have taken responsibility and lifted in their own way to win out.

The coaching doesn’t seem to inspire and respond like that.

 

[bmaurizio]

Noticed a change in how at least 2 players in particular have had their roles changed recently....Dow and SPS.
Just speculating that this has happened since Power took over from Barker.
Also noted that Adelaide struggled to move the ball quickly against us last week....something Syd and WC appeared to do a lot more. Again, just speculation on my part, but I am noticing subtle changes from the Coaching evident in the past few weeks. Adelaide got within 14pts by mid/late 3rd qtr, but we managed to hold them off....Again, something we haven't been able to do this year....Curnow thrown in to tag after 1/2 time.....something has changed.
As for selection this week, around 600 games of experience were lost through injury/suspension....is this the right time to bring in Ramsay/Honey who have played 1 game between them, especially given we will only be 1 game out of the 8 if we win tonight. I don't think this season is gone yet....so getting games into youngsters is not the priority for me....
Hoping these observations are real.....and that we win tonight.

Agree with you on Power, but astounding it took the club so long to switch to Luke as head of midfield coach , Luke power was a champion midfielder triple premiership player, let’s hope we see more fresh structures.
His influence should be clearly noticeable by end season.

 

[Gethelred]

Are we a football club or a bleeding hearts club?

Get the football right first.

I think we're going in bass ackward.

You leave my bass out of this.

 

[2blue4u]

During games where there was some agro and a spark was needed (midway against Essendon, after halftime against Hawthorn and nearing quarter time against Adelaide) the fire in the players encouraged a rapid turnaround in the game and an eventual win.

That’s when players have taken responsibility and lifted in their own way to win out.

The coaching doesn’t seem to inspire and respond like that.

To be honest if the players need to be inspired every quarter to play footy then we probably got the wrong players. A six figured sum should be ample i would of thought. So when we win or look good in quarters its all the players. When we lose its all the coach and nothing to do with players. Yeah ok sounds legit.

 

[RoyalBlues]

To be honest if the players need to be inspired every quarter to play footy then we probably got the wrong players. A six figured sum should be ample i would of thought. So when we win or look good in quarters its all the players. When we lose its all the coach and nothing to do with players. Yeah ok sounds legit.

The point is that because they are poorly set up and since they are bereft of a workable, understandable plan they have been able to overcome that deficiency for themselves (because they have had to). That’s where they have been responsible for those wins.

 

[bmaurizio]

No, they certainly ******* shouldn't.

The tail wags the dog at Carlton, and has for far too long. Let's not lean into that, not again.

Yes it’s truly astounding that it’s been allowed to go unchecked for so many years. It’s the reason why the team is crying out for leadership and firm direction.
The good bloke image ain’t going to cut it , any longer.
Supporters , Power brokers , & Sponsors want results , everyone is totally fed up with insipid water treading.
It’s been going on for decades, time for fundamentals to change, fresh structures, how throughly the review will recommend not really sure.
But I’m certain Baggers will emerge stronger especially as we’re sound off field.

 

[katmanblue]

well put it on the agenda at least - might be a start.

I think the review is a step in the right direction if it's not hamstrung by politics.

 

[KohPhi]

Has the cattle? We have one of the poorest midfields in the comp and have done for years. Carltons solution was to go pay a half back flanker top dollar to help our midfield. How has that worked out so far? Personally i do not look at our team and say we have the cattle. All the best teams in the comp bat deep in the midfield. How deep does ours bat? You could also say that in a lot of games we have been in front or at minimum been in games to win them against the best opposition. So to me 90% of the time the game plan works otherwise we would be belted by 10+ goals. I put it down to players. I think people for some reason like to keep giving players an out. I am not sure which players you refer to as being the cattle. You need 22 cattle out their on game day but our list does not bat that deep.

I think we have the 'cattle' in the front and back half to work with..
But agree wholeheartedly about our midfield. Light on in talent and depth compared to all the sides in the 8.

 

[katmanblue]

Turns out some of us have brains

You take that back.

 

[katmanblue]

Totally agree with this, I do wonder if this can be changed though. I think even the last 5 weeks or so we have seen us putting players behind the ball more so maybe there is hope yet

Putting players behind the ball without a plan has meant they are often in the wrong spot.

So we have one less around the ball then opposition easily avoid our plus one. Leading to easy scores against.

No two ways about it, coaching has been shit. Now, I am not sure if that's coming from the head coach or from the line coaches not being up to it. Either way responsibility lies with Teauge and ultimately Lloyd.