Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[juzz88]

But it's an awful prospect, isn't it? People talk about when we make finals, or this or that. I'll just be glad when we're not going into Round 23 wondering whether our players are going to give effort or not.

I really hope Eagles beat Lions today
then Pies beat *
The thought of that puts a big smile on face.

I'll be glad when we aren't relying on the filth to put a smile on our face in Round 23.

 

[katmanblue]

Don’t please me please...

Are you displeased?

 

[Accidental genius]

Are you displeased?

There was no need for the please at the end. All else was good.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

I'll be glad when we aren't relying on the filth to put a smile on our face in Round 23.

Filth vs Scum I'm always hoping for the most painful result.

 

[Beast__Mode]

Funny how people have changed their thoughts on the Saad deal after the fact

As for Cerra, we missed that boat, price would be considerably higher, but makes us better immediately, rather than waiting for a draftee to find consistency

It will come down to what we give up, but I can see us trading out a player for that deal to be done, or our first this year or next as a minimum

exactly correct re: Saad. We paid retail price for a really good player who had a really good season.I had no problems with it then and have none now.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Why do we need Cerra's output now?

Because at the moment our midfield is a one man band in Walsh.

We let Cripps carry the midfield for years and he's almost broken now. We don't want that to happen to Walsh.

We have invested 5 years into this rebuild. If want to keep Walsh and Harry etc when their contracts are up we need to start improving.

Because "in 3 years when so and so matures we might start contending" isn't going to cut it anymore.

We've been shit for too long. I think the club and most supporters think we have most of the list in place to start competing for finals right now.

We need midfielder that can perform right now.

We paid up big time for Williams to sort out our ready made midfielder problem last year, but that problem still exists now.

 

[Arr0w]

exactly correct re: Saad. We paid retail price for a really good player who had a really good season.I had no problems with it then and have none now.

I actually think it was overs at the time and still do, but he has been consistently solid

Others thought it was a good deal, but have now changed tact, I find it strange

 

[Jeremias]

We did slightly overpay for Saad, but I had no real issue with it at the time, and I have no real issue with it now.

Saad has been very, very good and is one of few who we can rely on to bring the effort every week.

Yes we gave up a top 10 pick but one pick doesn’t mean we’ve stuffed the rebuild nor does it mean we’ve mortgaged our future.

Thats Herald Sun click bait talk.

 

[woof39]

I feel like there is a lot of frustration with how poorly the club has handled this year and what a horrible place it must be with the devil running the place. However, I'm yet to hear facts that back it up. Its all based on rumour and without hearing the clubs side of the story, you can't just assume the opinions and media guesswork is correct.

The frustration of the last 20 years has emotionally clouded any rational thinking for some and I understand the feeling.

There are plenty of facts as to why Teague has had one of the worst coaching performances of any coach this year. However, when it comes to comments like the club has left Teague out to dry, they gave hin no support, they got rid of his senior assistant, they started a review halfway through the season etc etc, there may be pretty good reasons to all of these. Instead of drilling down on each issue, too many people are quick to slag off the club without proper information.

Please, take a deep breathe and logically think through each scenario and what the potential reasons are. You will find some make sense and there may be some you still don't agree with but no one really has enough information yet.

Things are never as bad as they seem, just don't tell the media that but maybe try to remind yourself of it too.

Love to all during lockdown

 

[Arr0w]

We did slightly overpay for Saad, but I had no real issue with it at the time, and I have no real issue with it now.

Saad has been very, very good and is one of few who we can rely on to bring the effort every week.

Yes we gave up a top 10 pick but one pick doesn’t mean we’ve stuffed the rebuild nor does it mean we’ve mortgaged our future.

Thats Herald Sun click bait talk.

For me it was the timing, those deals and for Saads age, I think they are deals when you have cemented yourself in the 8

 

[Broadside]

For me it was the timing, those deals and for Saads age, I think they are deals when you have cemented yourself in the 8

Can see a good tactical coach having a lot of fun using Saad as an offensive weapon with the defence properly covering for him when he goes on one of his blistering runs.

 

[Arr0w]

Can see a good tactical coach having a lot of fun using Saad as an offensive weapon with the defence properly covering for him when he goes on one of his blistering runs.

On a wing?

 

[Own The Future]

For me it was the timing, those deals and for Saads age, I think they are deals when you have cemented yourself in the 8

Yeah agree with this.
Love Saad and despite him having a very good year I think he can (and will) be much better in coming years - especially with a more structured defensive unit and gameplan.
I think either of Williams or Saad would have been a good haul, both of them were possibly overkill. I know we were intent on making ZW a mid, but nothing at all from his past indicated he was any more than a pinch hitter in that role. Each of them are bordering on elite in the HBF role, but I fear that as neither are lockdown defenders they may struggle to play to their strengths in the same side without leaking goals. Hope I’m wrong. And also hope a new coach will utilise them far better.

 

[Broadside]

On a wing?

If he has the tank for it, maybe.

He runs 30m then bombs it 60m would make a lot of defenders nervous with Harry Charlie Honey Owies lurking. Maybe Ross can become renowned as a high scoring coach?

 

[chunkylover53]

Pretty sure Voss applied from memory


Won't get any objection from me there...

On the surface, this appears correct, but (other than the announcement about the review) everything else has been pure speculation - the club has said nothing.

Lets be honest, anyone interviewing for the job, is going to say all the right things, and say they'll follow all the right protocols. No-one knows until after the fact.

What you get with Clarkson, is the players that played under him giving endorsements that attest to this, even if they are 'sour grapes' like Lewis, no-one has come out and said he is bad for culture, or has the players offside. Just look at Hawthorn's form right now.

He is the best available option right now and definitely the safest bet, for a club who has got it wrong so many times.
How do you think the members will feel if we do not go after Clarkson with everything, then do our 'Due Diligence' only to hire someone else who is a victim of our rotten culture and fail after 3-5 years again?

I back Clarko to make our culture better as much as make us a better team on field.


Yep. It seems Rob Harvey will attest to that.

Never actually thought about the bolded and it's a good point.

Wonder if professional psychs ever get involved in the interview process? You know, to tell when they are embellishing or being ingenuine etc.

Re: Clarko, you and I have different views and that's cool, if the club didn't call him I wouldn't even care. He's not even fresh out of a 15 year marriage with Hawthorn. IMO he needs time to heal and be ready to coach for the right reasons. He's still coaching well but that's his club, his list, his leaders, his environment, his culture. He built that from scratch. It's a different story bringing it across to a whole new environment - as we've seen with Mick.

I was staunch on following recent history and sticking with our coach to get him to the level, like Richmond did with Dimma etc. But really, who the **** knows? The same trend doesn't last forever. Also I think just care less now #eco.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

We would be mad not to look at Talia, for the minimum - depth, or as a full back to free up Jones as a 3rd tall who can play in front and break the lines.

Hasn't Talia been injured most of this year?(bit like OMac) Crows might be unloading him for a good reason. Hope we gab some good young tall's in the draft instead of another midfielder.

 

[agro]

If it’s thought we caved on the Saad trade negotiation, the Carlton / Fremantle negotiation on Cerra is going to make the Beaconsfield Mining Disaster look like two kids playing in a sandpit.

 

[Ash24]

Adam Cerra. According to Champion Data he ranks in the top 1/3 of mids in the league for effective kicks, metres gained, inside 50s, marks, marks i50, spoils, goal assists, score involvements and shots on goal.

He is only 21 and not even in his prime. Can play both on-ball and on a wing. He will be a star of the comp for years to come and he's only getting better. If that's not worth pick 6, I don't know what is.

IN - Cerra + pick 28
OUT - Pick 6 + SPS

Take both our 2nd rounder (pick 24) + Freo's 2nd (pick 28) to get a ruck and KPD either through trades/the draft. Leaves us with more than enough for Cerra.

Easy peasy, problem solved, case closed.

 

[carlton_99]

Anyone else think Hawks could come late for Cerra?

 

[The Flying Doormat]

.

It's not gutter journalism.

Process with Bolton - when? who else applied? From memory he was the only well-credentialed assistant to have a crack at it.

You may have missed all the fanfare

Scott Burns, John Barker, Brendon Bolton make their case to Carlton coach selection panel

Collingwood assistant coach and ex-captain Scott Burns was one of three candidates who made in-depth presentations to Carlton's coaching subcommittee on Thursday.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Red_man2008]

Very reductive way of looking at it - ignoring the fact that I don't agree with that statement either.

They're not even remotely similar players so it's not as simple as "x is better than y". Cerra is 5 years younger than Saad was at time of trade, plays in a position of generally much greater demand (elite midfielders are much harder to find than attack-minded HBFs - before even adding Saad we already had Docherty, Newman, Williams coming from GWS - we saw that issue this year where we couldn't fit them all in so pushed Docherty up to the wing) and has a higher ceiling as a player IMO. Midfield is also clearly our most gaping weakness as a footy side - we've already seen what happens to the likes of Cripps when we leave them unsupported for years. Do we want the same to happen to Walsh?

I have held the (probably unpopular) opinion that we overpaid for Saad and I don't really think he was a "need" for us per se; what is indisputably a need for Carlton is to improve our midfield. Adding Cerra is objectively an improvement on our current stocks - and we would project getting around 10 years out of him at a very good level at worst (based on what he's already shown), or an elite level at best. We will hopefully get 5 years out of Saad before his athletic gifts diminish and with them his impact on games on footy - yet he plays a role that is inherently easier to replace.

I don't really think you could come to the conclusion, when taking into account of all of this, that Cerra would have less value than Saad at the trade table. There's just too much in his favour IMO

I actually don’t think Cerra is an elite midfielder. He may become one. But right now he’s a B grade midfielder. I would argue that If Dow was playing for Freo he would look awfully similar. At his best still Dow is better than Cerra. 2022 will be dows breakout season. And if we have both him and Cerra things will look up very quickly.

 

[Red_man2008]

Filth vs Scum I'm always hoping for the most painful result.

The media will still turn an Essendon loss into a successful year.

 

[Loose at HB]

I actually don’t think Cerra is an elite midfielder. He may become one. But right now he’s a B grade midfielder. I would argue that If Dow was playing for Freo he would look awfully similar. At his best still Dow is better than Cerra. 2022 will be dows breakout season. And if we have both him and Cerra things will look up very quickly.

I agree completely with the bolded.

But I think saying “at his best Dow is better than Cerra” is looking through some pretty serious blue tinted glasses. Paddy has shown nothing to suggest that yet - I would love nothing more then for Dow to break out next year because he was such a highly rated junior for a reason. Despite that, no one is taking him over Cerra as it stands and with good reason

 

[4thchicken]

prefer to keep pick 5.

Thoughts on a sps +fisher for cerra trade? - would probably want something else coming our way so perhaps

sps+fisher+61+ future 3rd -> cerra +28

 

[The Bighouse]

The media will still turn an Essendon loss into a successful year.

Unfortunately so however. Good draft/trade selections, improvements in players, team & systems and they advanced from where they were expected to finish (wooden spoon IMO).

I lambasted an * supporter in summer with how bad they were looking as a club, but that’s going to come back to haunt/egg on face. The good thing is that it can turn quickly, a hope held for us in the near future…