Bluemour Melting Pot XXVI

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/

Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their rumour files.

Remember ... #Bluemour





Continued from here ...

Bluemour Melting Pot XXV

Continued here ... https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-melting-pot-xxvi.1250444/

www.bigfooty.com

Continued here:

Bluemour Melting Pot XXVII

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Rosscoe]

I prefer Dow to Treloar...There I said it!

Mihocek is handy though

 

[Arr0w]

Depends what portion of his salary we agree to pay.

I think there’s a price that makes sense for us, assuming we can’t get Oliver.

I’d be offering the Pies an end of 1st, but would need to significant de-risk it from our side - only willing to pay $2-2.2m of his contract. The pies need to pick up the rest.

Also happy to include performance bonus to Pies if he reaches certain milestones (no. of games, top 10 finished in B&F, Brownlow, etc).

We would have the bargaining power. If they don’t stump up then they can keep him. Simple.

I am not really concerned with the amount per year, more the tenure.

I would give up a late 1st if I was confident on two items.

1. Can he sustain current form? Unlikely.
2. Will he remain, hamstring/injury free?Unlikely

That's why I wouldn't hand over a late 1st

 

[Coops93]

I wonder if the Geelong list manager is hated because they all take unders to stay together and strive for success.

They still get the same money, I doubt they're too concerned.

 

[ferrisb]

What is so wrong with the Grundy contract?

The guy was the best ruckman in the game and one of the league's best players for two years in a row.

He was a year out from FA, wanted a big contract, deserved a big contract and got one.

He's had a disappointing 2020 by his standards. But I don't think the offer was wrong (perhaps the Pies should have held firm on 5 years or 7 years at less money). But 7 year contracts are the new norm for pre-agent superstars.

Arguing against myself, I guess none of Kelly (GWS), Coniglio or Grundy has delivered on their mega contracts so far...

 

[HARKER]

He was conveying something that happened to him a year earlier, with no hint of anger in his voice.

Meanwhile you're using hyperbole to tell us what he did based on your emotional reaction to it.
I'm not sure 'private' is the key point in what occurred, and how do we know it was supposed to be private anyway?
If it was, that's a dirty, underhanded way for Liddle to get rid of him.

I don't know. You seem quite invested in upholding all things around the Silvagni name, whilst knocking anything Liddle.

What info have you got that's taken you down this path?

 

[Matty411]

Don't mind Jed as a plan B. Right in that slot of 500 to 600k and moderate cost.

 

[Stamos]

What is so wrong with the Grundy contract?

The guy was the best ruckman in the game and one of the league's best players for two years in a row.

He was a year out from FA, wanted a big contract, deserved a big contract and got one.

He's had a disappointing 2020 by his standards. But I don't think the offer was wrong (perhaps the Pies should have held firm on 5 years or 7 years at less money). But 7 year contracts are the new norm for pre-agent superstars.

Arguing against myself, I guess none of Kelly (GWS), Coniglio or Grundy has delivered on their mega contracts so far...

I don't think that 7 years will be the norm from now on.
There haven't been many signed, and they're not looking great currently.

 

[new_blue]

I am not really concerned with the amount per year, more the tenure.

I would give up a late 1st if I was confident on two items.

1. Can he sustain current form? Unlikely.
2. Will he remain, hamstring/injury free?Unlikely

That's why I wouldn't hand over a late 1st

I don’t think what we should be willing pay would work anyway.

What worries me most is Coll’s willingness to push him out the door. What do they know that they don’t like?

I assume there are other issues as play...

 

[Macca43]

Considering the effect it will have on our salary cap for the next 2-3 years restricting our ability to go for someone like Oliver or wines etc. i dont hink we should.

Furthermore, with Treloar, Williams, Setters, Ed, Cripps (maybe even SPS) already in the middle, what development opportunities will the Likes of Stocker, Kemp, Dow etc get? how long before they start looking elsewhere?

Do we need Oliver or Wines if we have Trelaor?

And we don't want to get too good because the young blokes won't get a chance to play?

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Summary of the Melting Pot this morning ...

 

[BlueFlagger]

Can someone fill me in on why we’re so obsessed with arguing about what treloar is worth, is he too big of a risk ect? Have I missed something?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mike D]

If you're stupid enough to sign up someone (anyone!) for 7 years, you deserve all you've got coming. Asinine in the extreme.

 

[HARKER]

Been having a look at O'Brien and I now feel it would be the wrong move to trade him.
There's quite a bit we can do with going forward.

I don't know whether we've lost a bit of confidence in him, resulting in him losing confidence in himself. Possibly.


EDIT: And as I posted this, Trade Radio discuss LOB.

 

[ferrisb]

I don't think that 7 years will be the norm from now on.
There haven't been many signed, and they're not looking great currently.

Fair point, John.

And I get that 7-contracts are risky for a club. No way I would be a fan if I was the list manager.

But lets say Cripps says to this club this year 'I've been approached by WCE and Freo. They have each offered me mega deals. I want to stay at Carlton. Make me a long-term offer and I will happily waive my FA rights, take slightly unders and commit to Carlton for the rest of my career'.

You don't want to match the other club on $$$ OR years. So you say if he'll take a haircut on $, you'll offer him long-term to compensate. And you have faith that he is the kind of person and player that will give his all no matter his contract status.

You don't want to bluff Cripps and say 'we can't match that, if you want that deal, you can leave'....... I can see how for a couple of players at each club, if your top player(s) back you into a corner, you almost have no choice but to back down. And the extra years (at lower $$$) is probably how limit the risk by controlling the total contract value.

Amazingly Collingwood seem to have offered Brodie top dollars AND a super long contract. I think you get one or the other. Not both. Silly Collingwood.

 

[Coops93]

If you're stupid enough to sign up someone (anyone!) for 7 years, you deserve all you've got coming. Asinine in the extreme.

It's stupid if there's no outs for the club i/e triggers or option years etc, which it doesn't seem like there is.

It happens all the time in the US sports where 5,6,7 year deals get handed out but there's no guarantees after, say, 3 years. If there performance drops of after 4 years they can flat out cut them or approach them to restructure without penalty.

The AFLPA is one of the strongest player unions in the world, though, so it'd be hard to get that sort of thing approved.

 

[BringBackSimmo]

View attachment 996436
Summary of the Melting Pot this morning ...

Would Adam Kennedy

40

Adam Kennedy

Age

32

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

245.6

4star

D

1.0

1star

K

1.0

1star

HB

0.0

1star

M

0.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

10.0

1star

D

18.6

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.4

4star

be let in? or Adam Cerra?

 

[murphster]

He didn't say we weren't interested, he just said we wouldnt have the draft capital or salary cap to get it done in his opinion.

The message from the ITKs say he wants to come not that he is coming. If we don't have a realistic way of getting him then nothing will be announced about Oliver wanting out.

This is the same trade radio that thinks the Saints can afford Crouch and Treloar, if that’s the case we can easily accomodate Oliver salary wise.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

What is so wrong with the Grundy contract?

The guy was the best ruckman in the game and one of the league's best players for two years in a row.

He was a year out from FA, wanted a big contract, deserved a big contract and got one.

He's had a disappointing 2020 by his standards. But I don't think the offer was wrong (perhaps the Pies should have held firm on 5 years or 7 years at less money). But 7 year contracts are the new norm for pre-agent superstars.

Arguing against myself, I guess none of Kelly (GWS), Coniglio or Grundy has delivered on their mega contracts so far...

I don't think you should ever really pay Ruckmen big big money and would prefer not to give big big deals. They just don't influence premiership sides to the degree that midfields and key forwards do.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I don't know. You seem quite invested in upholding all things around the Silvagni name, whilst knocking anything Liddle.

What info have you got that's taken you down this path?

Upholding his name as far as a List Manager because I think he did a great job at managing salaries, trade negotiations and turning currency into picks.

After that, the sacking. The press release using the COI as the excuse, the implementation of a recruiting sub-committee with Lloyd and Liddle sitting on it. The Ellis fiasco. And now, breaking established rules to pay Betts more and telling the President SOS would sabotage the draft.

What have you got going the other way?

 

[Arr0w]

I don’t think what we should be willing pay would work anyway.

What worries me most is Coll’s willingness to push him out the door. What do they know that they don’t like?

I assume there are other issues as play...

Not sure, but I would still suggest his contract is now the issue, especially if they were trying to attract topend talent with no cap space

 

[smashbox gill]

Been having a look at O'Brien and I now feel it would be the wrong move to trade him.
There's quite a bit we can do with going forward.

I don't know whether we've lost a bit of confidence in him, resulting in him losing confidence in himself. Possibly.


EDIT: And as I posted this, Trade Radio discuss LOB.

I would be keeping him. Its been a tough year for all players especially young players with their development.
LOB was really starting to come on last year towards the 2nd half of the season.
I recall he was killing it in preseason and then got injured, that along with these scratch matches would have made it tough.
I'll leave my judgements till next year.

 

[Jorge]

Not interested in a plan B mid.
We have the soldiers and are already bringing in 2 good players. We need the star power, in my opinion. If that isn’t available, hold fire until 2021.

 

[ferrisb]

I don't think you should ever really pay Ruckmen big big money and would prefer not to give big big deals. They just don't influence premiership sides to the degree that midfields and key forwards do.

From what I have watched of Collingwood in the last few years, Brodie is easily their best player.

He can (and does) dominate games and is easily a key difference in winning & losing each week.

 

[HARKER]

Upholding his name as far as a List Manager because I think he did a great job at managing salaries, trade negotiations and turning currency into picks.

After that, the sacking. The press release using the COI as the excuse, the implementation of a recruiting sub-committee with Lloyd and Liddle sitting on it. The Ellis fiasco. And now, breaking established rules to pay Betts more and telling the President SOS would sabotage the draft.

What have you got going the other way?

I've expressed what I heard already and in summary, if SOS wasn't as stubborn and sometimes rude as he was,, the whole ugly chain of events may not have eventuated.

I just thought you may have quality information, other than what has been broadcast or expressed by SOS himself.
I guess you're saying you haven't. That's all I wanted to know. Thank you.

 

[JustaBattler]

I don't know. You seem quite invested in upholding all things around the Silvagni name, whilst knocking anything Liddle.

What info have you got that's taken you down this path?

Oh I dont know you seem to be quite invested in upholding all things anti-SOS and pro Liddle

What info have you got that's taken you down this path?