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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
BOOO-ing Goodes
- Thread starter Double the Fist
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13 yr old girl.... she said "ape" FFS. You really think he hasn't been called worse over the course of his career? Odd time to get offended.
Yes, during indigenous round. And to the suffering opposition supporters, not to the Carlton players themselves. Go figure.
Yes. Yes it is. It increases the media attention 10 fold sure, which is why so many people think of him as an attention seeking twat. But also the vitriol which comes with it. Like Dermott said, he has bought the booing upon himself with his actions on field. If he'd thought 'bringing it to everyone's attention' on the footy field was the right idea, then he must reap what he sows and cop the boo's which come with it. Not threaten to retire.
Which is why we're in this whole circle jerk in the first place. Because of that ^
I'm all booed out now
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
The "ape" comment came in his 300th didn't it?
Have you actually read his AOTY speech or just the inflammatory bits?
So someone bashing an Aboriginal couldn't be doing it for racist reasons, unless he bashed every Aborigine he met?
Maybe the racist in the crowd stands and boos and yells things like go back to the zoo because everyone else is. Hard to do it if you are the only one. Easy in a mob.
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I totally understand that and that's a fair line to breach.
But as an AOTY, professional footballer, future politician, guest speaker etc on that day,
Do you not just water these things down when they get brought up, respond positively like a professional and move things along positively?
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Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
Why not just give an honest answer to the question?
This is Goodes' response the very next day.
"People need to get around her. She's 13, she's uneducated. If she wants to pick up the phone and call me, I'll take the call."
"I've got no doubt in my mind she's got no idea what she was calling me last night."
"It's not a witch hunt. I don't want people to go after this girl."
And he tweeted - "Just received a phone call from a young girl apologizing for her actions. Lets support her please"
Well invasion day isn't mentioned once in his whole AOTY acceptance speech, an outright lie. The reference to invasion day was in another part of the ceremony, it is as follows -
- Goodes admitted Sunday's Australia Day celebrations prompted mixed emotions after he learnt the full story of the country's settlement in regards to his own heritage when he was younger.
However, he said there were still reasons to celebrate his culture on January 26.
"There was a lot of anger, a lot of sorrow, for this day and very much the feeling of invasion day," he said.
"But in the last five years, I've really changed my perception of what is Australia Day, of what it is to be Australian and for me, it's about celebrating the positives, that we are still here as indigenous people, our culture is one of the longest surviving cultures in the world, over 40,000 years.
"That is something we need to celebrate and all Australians need to celebrate.
"There are people out there thinking that today is a great day for Australia - well, it is.
"It's a day we celebrate over 225 years of European settlement and right now, that's who we are as a nation but we also need to acknowledge our fantastic Aboriginal history of over 40,000 years and just know that some Aboriginal people out there today are feeling a little bit angry, a little bit soft in the heart today because of that, and that's OK as well."
So inflammatory! So divisive! Give me a break...
Just a question Dark Sharks, are these the examples of how Goodes is "the most openly racist person you've ever seen"?
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You know that time when Nicky Winmar lifted his shirt to show the colour of his skin to the crowd? Was that an odd time to get offended? Or maybe he had just, you know, snapped after copping it for such a long time?
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People concerned about Goodes AOTY speech being provocative it's got nothing on Neil Young's song " Pocahontas " .. Check the lyrics out
He even sang it a music awards night and got good reviews.
He even sang it a music awards night and got good reviews.
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DohjDuckDipDive
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I haven't been on this forum long, but I thought you were fairly intelligent Dark Sharks. Your footy analysis is decent. Clearly I was wrong because your arguments on this topic have been the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LALALA NOT RACIST LALALA". You agreed with Dermott Brereton FFS, possibly the most idiotic commentator in the AFL.
We as white people don't get to decide what is racist and what is not.
If you're not a racist, you listen to Aboriginal Australians and adjust your behaviour when needed!
If you don't adjust, especially with something as effortless as not shouting angrily, then you ARE racist.
STOP THE BOOS.
Ape can be particularly hurtful to some as it has been used for hundreds of years to offend people of colour. It is used to imply they are subhuman, as they were treated for thousands of years elsewhere (hundreds of years here) and continue in some ways to be treated in this country.
Ape is racist. And he was right to call her out. He was wrong to take significant offence from it though and would have done a lot more if he actually sat down with the girl, explained why it was hurtful and brought people together over it. Instead, he was divisive.
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
I thought he did talk to her about it?
Yes in Zimbabwe white people speaking about their history and rights is not looked upon kindly. Not so much in Australia. Quite frankly we live in a great country and just about every ethnicity is given an amazing life.
For me the only minority group that has anything to complain about is the one that has the smallest voice, and that's indigenous Australians.
Honestly I don't think it's my, yours or anyone else's right to be determining what he has a right to get offended at considering history. Yes many things happened more than a century ago but significant steps towards reconciliation have only happened recently. I mean it wasn't until 1992 that an Australian leader acknowledged that land and more importantly lives had been taken.
Well the thing about bringing people together is that they've all got to want to. We all have a tendency of picking quotes and facts to suit our arguments. Case in point the below quote. If people want to come together they will focus on this quote, if people want to hate and leave things as status quo they'll always go back to "face of racism".
"People need to get around her. She's 13, she's uneducated. If she wants to pick up the phone and call me, I'll take the call … I've got no doubt in my mind she's got no idea what she was calling me last night. It's not a witch hunt. I don't want people to go after this girl." - Adam Goodes 2013
I think people on both sides are pushing barrows.
* There are some who see everything as racist and look for racism where it is not because it exists in other areas.
* There are some who see the whole racism issue in general as PC rubbish and can't see their own racism (eg. why monkey/ape/... is easily racist)
* There are those who personally know Goodes/Watson/... and like them personally (or fans of their team) and think they are angels who can't do anything wrong
* There are people who support other teams who look for everything as signs of wrongdoing
The further to the extremes of the beliefs above the louder the voice.
With Goodes -
* sure he is one of quite a few exponents of diving/sooking, but there are a few worse than him around (eg. L.Thomas)
* pointing out true racism like the 13 year old can't be wrong. It can probably be argued that what happened afterwards wasn't perfect. I doubt Goodes knew her age originally and from memory the media didn't either & as such it effected the events immediately afterwards.
* those claiming the dance is traditional need to stop. It is not. It was made up a few years ago by teenagers. Directing it at the crowd does not help the situation and is not done as a celebration of Indigenous culture. It is an "up yours" which some could argue is justified. It is not the equivalent of the haka which is a true traditional dance aimed at the opposition before the game when they know it happens. (Personally not a fan of the haka, but that is another issue altogether)
* Eddie Macguire's comments were stupid & racist (re: King Kong) and probably influenced by his personal COLA war with the Swans.
* I don't know anything about his AotY speech, so won't comment about it. His appointment as the position was likely a political one being Abbott has a self-proclaimed interest in the area (and a reason to play it as a political game). This doesn't mean Goodes didn't deserve the position but (for him and his cause) it probably meant he was in a bad position from the beginning.
* People in Australia don't like to be lectured to by those in authority. We are extremely sceptical that they are in that position (often with good reason) for personal advancement. So them taking a stand against something will often cause an opposite reaction (unless of course it is confirming their original beliefs).
* The argument that not all Indigenous players are booed therefore it is not racism is not necessarily true. There is an element of anyone (Aboriginal or otherwise) being slagged off for being a representative of a cause (political or otherwise) unless it is universally supported. There is obviously people who are racist who are booing. But to say people are supporting the racists by booing is simplistic and most people aren't booing for racial purposes.
* Obviously Goodes is suffering mentally and like M.Clark should be allowed to just play. But he should also be prepared to help let the issue die down by not being a face of his cause. Let others do what they want in their own supportive way (I.e. not include a made up dance at the crowd).
* and lastly - many in the media are pushing their own barrows. Whether it is a hate (in some) of WCE, supporting a friend/family member (Goodes/Watson), trying to sell copy ($$$), doing the bidding of their master (eg. Murdoch), pushing their own political barrow (Bolt, Jones, et al). Some might actually make an effort at being geniunely interested in the issue.
Anyway - sorry if it is in the TL; DR category.
And sorry if the above was disjointed and all over the place. It was typed on my phone on the run.
* There are some who see everything as racist and look for racism where it is not because it exists in other areas.
* There are some who see the whole racism issue in general as PC rubbish and can't see their own racism (eg. why monkey/ape/... is easily racist)
* There are those who personally know Goodes/Watson/... and like them personally (or fans of their team) and think they are angels who can't do anything wrong
* There are people who support other teams who look for everything as signs of wrongdoing
The further to the extremes of the beliefs above the louder the voice.
With Goodes -
* sure he is one of quite a few exponents of diving/sooking, but there are a few worse than him around (eg. L.Thomas)
* pointing out true racism like the 13 year old can't be wrong. It can probably be argued that what happened afterwards wasn't perfect. I doubt Goodes knew her age originally and from memory the media didn't either & as such it effected the events immediately afterwards.
* those claiming the dance is traditional need to stop. It is not. It was made up a few years ago by teenagers. Directing it at the crowd does not help the situation and is not done as a celebration of Indigenous culture. It is an "up yours" which some could argue is justified. It is not the equivalent of the haka which is a true traditional dance aimed at the opposition before the game when they know it happens. (Personally not a fan of the haka, but that is another issue altogether)
* Eddie Macguire's comments were stupid & racist (re: King Kong) and probably influenced by his personal COLA war with the Swans.
* I don't know anything about his AotY speech, so won't comment about it. His appointment as the position was likely a political one being Abbott has a self-proclaimed interest in the area (and a reason to play it as a political game). This doesn't mean Goodes didn't deserve the position but (for him and his cause) it probably meant he was in a bad position from the beginning.
* People in Australia don't like to be lectured to by those in authority. We are extremely sceptical that they are in that position (often with good reason) for personal advancement. So them taking a stand against something will often cause an opposite reaction (unless of course it is confirming their original beliefs).
* The argument that not all Indigenous players are booed therefore it is not racism is not necessarily true. There is an element of anyone (Aboriginal or otherwise) being slagged off for being a representative of a cause (political or otherwise) unless it is universally supported. There is obviously people who are racist who are booing. But to say people are supporting the racists by booing is simplistic and most people aren't booing for racial purposes.
* Obviously Goodes is suffering mentally and like M.Clark should be allowed to just play. But he should also be prepared to help let the issue die down by not being a face of his cause. Let others do what they want in their own supportive way (I.e. not include a made up dance at the crowd).
* and lastly - many in the media are pushing their own barrows. Whether it is a hate (in some) of WCE, supporting a friend/family member (Goodes/Watson), trying to sell copy ($$$), doing the bidding of their master (eg. Murdoch), pushing their own political barrow (Bolt, Jones, et al). Some might actually make an effort at being geniunely interested in the issue.
Anyway - sorry if it is in the TL; DR category.
And sorry if the above was disjointed and all over the place. It was typed on my phone on the run.
And yet anyone and everyone laughs in my face when i suggest Aboriginals calling me a white c*** all the time is racist.
It's a funny old world we live in isn't it?
Amazing how racism apparently only applies to a certain color. I will always rue the day i was born blonde and Caucasian, as i obviously have no rights.
According to you, if a person deems something racist, it is. Just not in my case?
The irony of valuing individuals opinions based solely on their skin colour.
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
That's clearly racist and I'm pretty sure the AFL racism policy would apply to that statement just as it would to the "black" equivalent.
The "woe is me, I'm a poor white man" schtick isn't really going to wash.
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I read this and all I hear is "I'm the real victim of all this fake victimhood!". It's be funny if it was just you but that's basically half of society talking.
Well i wasn't basing any sort of argument on that, so you can spare me.
I was responding to obvious flaws and hypocritical double standards in his reply.
How often do we read in a match report after the game how someone like Naitanui, or Johansson (of the bulldogs) was racially taunted/abused by the crowd during a match? And do they make a spectacle of it? No. Do they run to the media/club/afl about it and turn it into a huge issue by labeling the entire crowd racist or threaten to retire? No.
It is dealt with appropriately by the suitable parties. Usually the abuser is cited and expelled from the club and/or banned from the stadium. There might be an article or a short story condemning racism and that's about it. It's how unfortunate racial incidents are usually dealt with in the AFL. A sharp blow.
Goodes on the other hand, has thrown that ^ out the window. He stopped playing, turned around and pointed directly at his ignorant "face of racism", a young child. Live on national television, on a friday night game, during prime time.
THAT ^ is one of several reasons why people do not like him. I haven't for one second said that "ape" isn't racist, but i do believe Goodes would have heard much worse in his 328 games before that. Wouldn't you? He didn't respond in the most gracious manner, something you'd expect from a professional footballer who's no doubt copped all different sorts of abuse in his career.
Look at the way Naitanui handled that racist lunatic on Twitter last year. That is professionalism.
that BBC avvy tho
We beat Melbourne in a semi in 1991 and a prelim in 1994, probably jealous of our dominance in the 90's
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
I think his reply was poorly worded and wasn't intended to mean that while people can't also be racially abused, but he can address that himself.
The game in question was Indigenous round which likely goes some way to explaining his reaction. In any event, just because other players can brush off racial abuse doesn't mean they should all be required to.
Goodes was clearly distraught after the siren, but was classy enough to speak up later and say people should be concerned about the girl and she shouldn't be targeted.
I think you've got this all pretty wrong, personally
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