Brad Thorn returns home to the Broncos from Union

[littleduck]

No I was referring to backrowers.

In both codes the most mobile players are backrowers. They do the most work and run the furthest (throughout a match). And I hardly think you could call someone like Jerry Collins fat and slow.

If you're simply talking about props than I'd agree with you, but they do less work at the breakdown than other forwards...they're shaped as they are for scrums. If there were no scrums props would look the same as backrowers.

Exactly. Thats what I meant.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Only real difference in fitness is the running ten metres forward and back every tackle(stuffs you) or if you are tackling all game.

And the ball is in play for longer than it is in union, so you have to be fitter to play league at a high standard than to play union at a high standard.

i can't watch union anymore, it's just not quick enough, also don't see enough BIG hits in union.(seen bigger hits in AR).

It's like, put a whole yr of union highlights on for two hours and you will only have two hours of highlights, then put the highlights on for Rugby League and you only have to go back to the last round of footy to see more highlights.

 

[Mint Condition]

On the other hand parra, when your side has the ball in league you get a bit of a rest if you want it. In union backrowers are expected to get to pretty much every breakdown, regardless of who takes the ball in...and for positions like prop and second row, I tell you pushing in a scrum can be the most tiring aspect of the game.

The rest of your post is rubbish.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

On the other hand parra, when your side has the ball in league you get a bit of a rest if you want it. In union backrowers are expected to get to pretty much every breakdown, regardless of who takes the ball in...and for positions like prop and second row, I tell you pushing in a scrum can be the most tiring aspect of the game.

The rest of your post is rubbish.

You tell me which second rower in union does more work than N Hindmarsh or C fitzgibon?

I don't see second rowers in Rugby union making upwards of 40 tackles a match on top of taking the ball forward all match.

Running back and forward in League does stuff you.

Scrums, yeah union work with those(League scrums crap)

How do you get a rest in the forwards in League?

Forwards move in a line towards the attacking team every play the ball, they also have to move back each time to stay onside, how the hell do they get a rest?

When they got the ball it is there job to take it forward to gain ground and make room for the backs to do their stuff, if they are a player with any ability at all they will move forward and back up incase there is a break made.The forwards get smashed from pillar to post, but they keep taking it forward....it's there job, they do more running and tackling in League, union do more on ground work than League(the hard yakka) but you don't see them running in 50 metre trys after 70 mins of union, its the backs that do the long range running in union.

If union players are so fit, then why the hell have most of the leading teams taken League coaches and trainers?

IMITATION IS THE BIGGEST FORM OF FLATTERY

If League had never been made, where would union have got all it ideas from when they went pro? union should thank League for doing all the hard work for PRO Rugby in the last 100 yrs.

and i don't give a stuff if my post is rubbish to you as i said above, imatation blah blah blah.

 

[Mint Condition]

Look mate, don't take everything so personally.

Forwards in league get breaks that union forwards don't get in two ways. One, because there's 12 interchanges so forwards can go off and then go back on...this can't happen in union, and secondly when a side has the ball a forward can easily take a break during a set of 6 and simply walk behind the play and get a drink from the trainer...again this can't happen in union.

As for which 2nd rowers in union do as much as Hindmarsh and Fitzy etc, well you have to understand that the two positions are completely different...just ask Brad Thorn. Of course they don't do anywhere near the amount of tackles or hit ups, but then again they have to push in every scrum, jump in the lineout and clear out at the breakdown.

As for your argument about how leagues continuous grind stuffs you, it's not necessary. I never argued that league forwards weren't fit, and I never argued that union forwards were fitter than league forwards...just that they aren't the fat, unfit slobs they are portrayed to be and that union (for forwards) is just as physically taxing as rugby league (albeit in different ways).

Now, you also say that rugby union forwards run in no long range tries. I ask how would you know? You claim that you don't watch it anymore.

Your statement is rubbish though. I'll tell you now though that I would bet my house on the fastest union forward being faster than the fastest league forward. You obviously haven't seen guys like Van Niekerk running in open space. Of course backs do the majority of the long range stuff...but it's the same in both codes.

And mate, don't be stupid all your life. Rugby League takes a lot of ideas from other professional sports too. This was epitomised last year when David Gallop went to NFL headquarters. But of course rugby union (at least in Australia and England) has learnt a lot from rugby league and it is a sign of flattery...is that supposed to make me embarrassed?

Don't you find it ironic though, that despite rugby union being professional for such a shorter period of time, it's rugby leagues administrators that could learn a lot from rugby unions administrators and not the other way round?!

 

[Fire Storm]

Boys boys BOYS!

The most important thing here is why Storm didn't make Thorn an offer. Geez, we'd be unstoppable. Well, more so then we already will be.


Its good to be back too.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Look mate, don't take everything so personally.

Forwards in league get breaks that union forwards don't get in two ways. One, because there's 12 interchanges so forwards can go off and then go back on...this can't happen in union, and secondly when a side has the ball a forward can easily take a break during a set of 6 and simply walk behind the play and get a drink from the trainer...again this can't happen in union.

As for which 2nd rowers in union do as much as Hindmarsh and Fitzy etc, well you have to understand that the two positions are completely different...just ask Brad Thorn. Of course they don't do anywhere near the amount of tackles or hit ups, but then again they have to push in every scrum, jump in the lineout and clear out at the breakdown.

As for your argument about how leagues continuous grind stuffs you, it's not necessary. I never argued that league forwards weren't fit, and I never argued that union forwards were fitter than league forwards...just that they aren't the fat, unfit slobs they are portrayed to be and that union (for forwards) is just as physically taxing as rugby league (albeit in different ways).

Now, you also say that rugby union forwards run in no long range tries. I ask how would you know? You claim that you don't watch it anymore.

Your statement is rubbish though. I'll tell you now though that I would bet my house on the fastest union forward being faster than the fastest league forward. You obviously haven't seen guys like Van Niekerk running in open space. Of course backs do the majority of the long range stuff...but it's the same in both codes.

And mate, don't be stupid all your life. Rugby League takes a lot of ideas from other professional sports too. This was epitomised last year when David Gallop went to NFL headquarters. But of course rugby union (at least in Australia and England) has learnt a lot from rugby league and it is a sign of flattery...is that supposed to make me embarrassed?

Don't you find it ironic though, that despite rugby union being professional for such a shorter period of time, it's rugby leagues administrators that could learn a lot from rugby unions administrators and not the other way round?!

I haven't taken anything personal(not yet)

Pretty game to put ur house on it.

I never said League hasn't looked at other sports.

I'm not stupid, i just see things differently to you.

I like the last bit though, how far would union be without Rugby League?(honest question)
If they didn't look to the little bastard would they be where they are?
Of course they would be, why should 2 sports be run by monkeys.
They would of got it somewhere else.

And yes i would put money on someone like big M Vella being able to out sprint most if not all rugga forwards.1 bloke i mentioned (N H ) never seems to get a rest.(wouldn't you like him in your union team?)

Now plz don't take any of this personal, i prefer League as a spectical over union any day, i have seen some nice movements from backs in union, but the forwards look to scrappy to me(my opinion).

Oh and League players might get a drink of water after a run, but union players get more than enough time to get a drink when the ball is hoofed into touch or the stupid ref won't stop blowing his whisle.(taking kicks at goal for penaltys all the time, sometimes up to 8 kicks each a game, that takes up a hellava lot of time don't you agree?).

Thats my opinion, your's is different, thats why we come here to talk chat or argue about our sports, it's all good.

and Thorne should've signed for the Eels.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The most important thing here is why Storm didn't make Thorn an offer

and Thorne should've signed for the Eels.

The Broncos were very good about Brad leaving to follow his all black dream. He was never going anywhere else. The boys all love Benny.

 

[Fire Storm]

Better roids are available at the Broncs. Why would you go anywhere else..........

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Better roids are available at the Broncs. Why would you go anywhere else..........

Pity these roids aren't helping them recover from injuries any faster then.

 

[Mint Condition]

Parra, Joe Van Niekerk has a standing start 40 metre time of 5.06 seconds (done last couple of years)...I don't know if that's the fastest time for a forward in world rugby but it's bloody quick for a guy his size and I reckon quicker than any fair dinkum forward in the NRL. Radike Samo (Brumbies 2nd rower/flanker - played for the Wallabies) is very quick as well...so are another half a dozen other pacific islander forwards.

Anyway, where would union be if not for league? Like you said, not much would be different. NZ rugby union hasn't been affected too much by rugby league at all and yet they're one of, if not the best side in the world playing wise and in history are easily the greatest side. The only real difference I could see is that RU would be the number 1 code in NSW and QLD if league didn't exist, and perhaps the Wallabies would have given the AB's a challenge for the best ever title.

As for Hindmarsh, he's a great player. A huge worker and someone any rugby side of either code would love to have...but in union there are great workers as well like the South African flanker Schalk Burger. Maybe Hindmarsh should come to RU though...the shorts might fit him better!

 

[littleduck]

Anyway, where would union be if not for league? Like you said, not much would be different. NZ rugby union hasn't been affected too much by rugby league at all and yet they're one of, if not the best side in the world playing wise and in history are easily the greatest side. The only real difference I could see is that RU would be the number 1 code in NSW and QLD if league didn't exist, and perhaps the Wallabies would have given the AB's a challenge for the best ever title.

Union has been heavily influenced by RL in recent times. Professionalasm in RU came about 10 years ago because of the rise of Super League, and the development of Super 12 over the same time has been related to the entertaining attack-orientated nature of Rugby League.

ps. I prefer more of a balance between defence/attack thatn currently exists in both codes, particular Super 12.

 

[Hurbie]

MC-Anthony Watmough did that in 4.76, Sea Eagles Second Rower. I'll try and find the Big League where they did all the Clubs Sprint Trials...All of them have forwards under the 5 second barrier.

And I can't believe you'd claim that NZ RU has not been affected by RL. That's Ludicrous. You'll find an awful lot of the All Blacks throughout history, especially the Maori's and the Islanders, have Roots in RL. You won't even get an Argument from NZRU historians on that issue!. I might as well claim the leeds Rhinos Have nothing to do with Union because they were formed after the Split (Even though they own the Dykes) and Bradford Park Avenue and Bradford City have nothing to do with Rugby League!

 

[Kurt Angle ©]

MC-Anthony Watmough did that in 4.76, Sea Eagles Second Rower. I'll try and find the Big League where they did all the Clubs Sprint Trials...All of them have forwards under the 5 second barrier.

Most of the forwards timed under 5.00 secs were hookers.

Though for 115kg, Tom Learoyd's time is impressive, so is Sonny Bill WIlliam's. Here it is anyway.

----

Brisbane B: Brent Tate, 89kg - 4.70
F: Tom Learoyd, 115kg - 4.88

Bulldogs B: Luke Patton, 86kg - 4.89
F: Sony-Bill Willliams, 102kg - 4.81

Canberra B: Mark Mclinden, 83kg - 4.75
F: Michael Hodgson, 102kg - 5.00

Cronulla B: Matt Rieck, 86kg - 4.30 * NRL's quickest
F: Paul Gallen, 102kg - 4.80

Dragons B: Matt Cooper, 92kg - 4.36
F: Tony Jensen, 96kg - 5.10

Manly B: Brett Stewart, 86kg 4.75
F: Anthony Watmough, 94kg - 4.83

Melbourne B: Billy Slater, 87kg - 4.71
F: Ryan Hoffman, 96kg - 4.95

Newcastle B: Timana Tahu, 92kg - 4.82
F: Michael Ennis, 89kg - 4.95

North QLD B: Mat Sing, 86kg - 4.85
F: Daniel Strickland, 100kg - 5.15

Parramatta B: Luke Burt, 88kg / Eric Grothe, 100kg - 4.80
F: Michael Vella, 107kg - 5.00

Penrith B: Rhys Whesser, 85kg - 4.68
F: Luke Priddas, 90kg - 4.80

Souths B: Matt Riddle, ? - 4.88
F: Ashley Harrison, 95kg - 4.97

Sydney Roosters B: Ryan Cross, 95kg - 4.68
F: Craig Wing, 86kg - 4.75 *Quickest Forward

Warriors B: Justin Murphy, 80kg - 4.88
F: Wairangi Koopu, 100kg - 5.00

West Tigers B: Shane Elford, 96kg - 4.36
F: Dene Halatau, 92kg - 4.96

 

[Aucklander]

And I can't believe you'd claim that NZ RU has not been affected by RL. That's Ludicrous. You'll find an awful lot of the All Blacks throughout history, especially the Maori's and the Islanders, have Roots in RL. You won't even get an Argument from NZRU historians on that issue!.

That's pretty much spot on.

The NZRFU saw the writing on the wall and was a major player in Rugby going openly pro about the same time the Warriors joined the Winfield Cup. Rugby League was making massive gains back then.

 

[Mint Condition]

When I said that the NZ RU hasn't been affected (I should have said as affected) I meant that you don't see many league coaches in the AB coaching system. I know, that for example the Auckland Blues and the Warriors do some training together but I'd guess that's quite limited. Perhaps South African RU would be a better example.

Kurt, those figures are bloody impressive...I wouldn't include Craig Wing as a fair dinkum forward, but the times of Learoyd and Williams etc are astonishing. If they're from standing starts Matthew Rieck should have become a sprinter (although like most speedstars in both codes I suppose his pace dies away over say 100 metres?). Still, I don't have figures that better the forward times, and while that doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist I guess the deed to the house is yours (and obviously being a rugby union supporter I live in a Mosman mansion, employ an English butler and have an endless supply of French champagne - enjoy). I still doubt any forward would be quicker (at least over 100 metres) than Radike Samo...he takes a while to wind up but he's faster than most wingers - one of the few who'd be better over 100 than 40. I'd certainly back him against Sonny Bill Williams and Craig Wing over 100 from what I've seen of them.

 

[Spiteful Beetle]

All of those times are flying starts, not standing starts.

I'd hate to have Sonny Bull Wulliams running at me with a 25 metres head start.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I'll tell you now though that I would bet my house on the fastest union forward being faster than the fastest league forward.

Just make sure the fridge is full thanks(beer plz, hate wine).

And you can leave the big screen telly there 2, now where do you, i mean "me" live?

 

[Hurbie]

Spiteful Beatle-There was no uniform testing. Some Did it with Boots with a flying starts, other went the whole box & dice with Sprigs on athletic tracks with proper crouching starts (i.e: Cronulla did it on tracks.).

Hopefully next year it's all done to the same standard. ( or even better, several different tests...over different lengths...oh how I love pointless stats!)

Auckmel-I was shocked to learn Auckland has 30k RL juniors. That's simply amazing.

 

[Aucklander]

Auckmel-I was shocked to learn Auckland has 30k RL juniors. That's simply amazing.

Where did you hear that?

I done some research for an article I was doing and the NZRL informed me the number nationally was, 15-20k but rising back up again.

 

[Mint Condition]

Just make sure the fridge is full thanks(beer plz, hate wine).

And you can leave the big screen telly there 2, now where do you, i mean "me" live?

Hey it hasn't been proven yet. My time for Van Niekerk was from a standing start. The league times are from flying starts!

 

[Hurbie]

Hey it hasn't been proven yet. My time for Van Niekerk was from a standing start. The league times are from flying starts!

No, they're not. No uniform testing.

Everyone did it differently. That's why Brett Stewart is so slow by comparison. He's the fastest player in the game since that Aussie bloke who broke the 10 sec barrier a few years back.