Brisbane being strong is good for the AFL

[Philhawk]

I personally find these threads idiotic.

It’s a national, salary cap, draft based sport. Teams go through ups and downs.

 

[Taper]

How?

More eyes on screens in NSW and QLD which is what AFL HQ want.
To think fans of our sport accept the clubs in NSW and QLD getting leg ups under the guise of growing the game - ask fans of other sports what they think of that, and you'll probably find they find it laughable.

 

[Cdog71]

North in its current iteration or wherever the AFL decide to move them to?

Don’t think North will be going anywhere.
I think they’ll come good.

Brisbane have, I think had more support across the board with picks, concessions and appointed administrator’s etc than North.
It was 2012-15 but it resulted in a really stacked team and Football Dept which played alotve finals.

The AFL have done alot to help Bris, perhaps they do want one of the QLD teams to be in finals.
With Bris on the decline and GC about to get more young talent thru the door and looking likely to rise I guess we’ll see if there’s any effect without Bris in the finals for the next few years.

 

[JasRulz63]

Don’t think North will be going anywhere.
I think they’ll come good.

Brisbane have, I think had more support across the board with picks, concessions and appointed administrator’s etc than North.
It was 2012-15 but it resulted in a really stacked team and Football Dept which played alotve finals.

The AFL have done alot to help Bris, perhaps they do want one of the QLD teams to be in finals.
With Bris on the decline and GC about to get more young talent thru the door and looking likely to rise I guess we’ll see if there’s any effect without Bris in the finals for the next few years.

The biggest support the AFL provided (apart from financial) is when they essentially put/helped put Greg Swann, David Noble and Chris Fagan in place. There's many factors, but those three coming in is probably the biggest. North have had assistance from the AFL in bringing in Clarkson, but not the other roles.

In terms of picks and concessions, since the rule change we've been given one priority pick (after the first round) so North have received more than we did from that POV.

The academy has been the main form of concessions we've had recruitment wise, though our academy has only generated the one top 20 pick (Eric Hipwood) as our recent high picks were father/sons.

 

[Rich01]

The biggest support the AFL provided (apart from financial) is when they essentially put/helped put Greg Swann, David Noble and Chris Fagan in place. There's many factors, but those three coming in is probably the biggest. North have had assistance from the AFL in bringing in Clarkson, but not the other roles.

This is exactly what turned Brisbane around.
Strong off field leadership.
North need more of this, not more draft picks and financial handouts that have encouraged them to let the AFL be a crutch for them.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Yes, I liked seeing lights exploding and catching fire. We need more of that.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It's good for the league when the Brisbane Lions are strong. The frontier must be defended at all costs and protected from grassroots rugby insurgency. The zealots are always looking for ways to push the AFL's fortifications back; all the way to Victoria if they could.

I agree with this, but that doesn't require Brisbane to be successful specifically. It requires at least one Queensland team and one NSW team to be successful. If both teams from one state are bad for an extended period, like both Queensland teams were for a lot of the 2010s, that's a hindrance to growth. If all four Queensland and NSW teams were bad at once, that would be a disaster for growth.

Fortunately the academies are bearing fruit now, so it's unlikely both teams from one state will be bad for a extended period. But who knows, maybe both the Swans and Giants finish their windows at the same time.

 

[Taper]

I agree with this, but that doesn't require Brisbane to be successful specifically. It requires at least one Queensland team and one NSW team to be successful. If both teams from one state are bad for an extended period, like both Queensland teams were for a lot of the 2010s, that's a hindrance to growth. If all four Queensland and NSW teams were bad at once, that would be a disaster for growth.

Fortunately the academies are bearing fruit now, so it's unlikely both teams from one state will be bad for a extended period. But who knows, maybe both the Swans and Giants finish their windows at the same time.

How is it good for the game having strong NSW and QLD clubs, as opposed to having strong WA and SA clubs?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

How is it good for the game having strong NSW and QLD clubs, as opposed to having strong WA and SA clubs?

Read the post I quoted. Growing the game means growing it in the rugby league heartland. WA and SA are already captive markets to the game.

 

[Taper]

Read the post I quoted. Growing the game means growing it in the rugby league heartland. WA and SA are already captive markets to the game.

QLD was declared an AFL state last year by the then CEO of AFL HQ.
Why do the Lions and Suns continue to receive leg ups?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

QLD was declared an AFL state last year by the then CEO of AFL HQ.

If you believe his marketing spin, that's great, but I'm little more wary.

Why do the Lions and Suns continue to receive leg ups?

Ask the AFL CEO.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

To put it another way, Is there actually a club that when up and about is definitely not good for the comp?

There are clubs who don’t bring as much being up and about, sure

 

[Taper]

If you believe his marketing spin, that's great, but I'm little more wary.


Ask the AFL CEO.

Depends on Gillon's definition of AFL state.
Hopefully he wasn't implying our sport is the number one football code in QLD, because it's not.

Also, it's blatantly obvious that AFL HQ want the Suns winning silverware. Quite frankly, it's a disgrace how footy fans accept the Suns receiving truckloads of concessions under the 'growing the game' guise.
Soon enough, the Suns will be able to field a team made up entirely of first round draft picks.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Depends on Gillon's definition of AFL state.
Hopefully he wasn't implying our sport is the number one football code in QLD, because it's not.

Also, it's blatantly obvious that AFL HQ want the Suns winning silverware. Quite frankly, it's a disgrace how footy fans accept the Suns receiving truckloads of concessions under the 'growing the game' guise.
Soon enough, the Suns will be able to field a team made up entirely of first round draft picks.

The Suns were messed up from the beginning by having the Giants come in just a year later while the Suns were still struggling. The rescue package was the AFL basically admitting they screwed them up and giving them another chance. Also, a lot of those first round picks are academy players, which the Suns helped make into top players by existing and providing a pathway for. Sure, top players from the Gold Coast existed before the Suns, but not with anywhere near the same regularity. The Suns having a successful period is the price that has to be paid for the Northern academies to eventually not be needed and create more talent for all clubs eventually.

 

[Cleansweep17]

No

I like VicBias

 

[Taper]

The Suns were messed up from the beginning by having the Giants come in just a year later while the Suns were still struggling. The rescue package was the AFL basically admitting they screwed them up and giving them another chance. Also, a lot of those first round picks are academy players, which the Suns helped make into top players by existing and providing a pathway for. Sure, top players from the Gold Coast existed before the Suns, but not with anywhere near the same regularity. The Suns having a successful period is the price that has to be paid for the Northern academies to eventually not be needed and create more talent for all clubs eventually.

Gold Coast were given start up concessions far more generous than Fremantle and Port Adelaide could have ever dreamed of, even if the Suns concessions paled in comparison to the start up concessions given to GWS.

Also, I remember in 2010 when people were saying Gold Coast had an advantage over GWS by entering the AFL first.
This was magnified ten fold after Gold Coast signed Ablett, with people saying GWS were left with the scraps after Gold Coast had scooped up the cream.

The lack of success Gold Coast have experienced over the years has been due to their own incompetence, it's their own fault not the AFL's fault.
The draft has become compromised since 2019 due to AFL assistance packages given to Gold Coast and North Melbourne - who are another example of AFL HQ rewarding clubs for their own incompetence, but the discussion regarding North is one for another thread topic.

As for the academies, the players that come through them should be accessible to all clubs via the draft - these players being exclusively accessible to NSW and QLD clubs is another example of AFL HQ giving these clubs leg ups under the 'growing the game' guise.

The Swans have been receiving leg ups from AFL HQ for 30 years which is bad enough, if they win the flag this year then surely we'll see AFL HQ strip back the leg ups?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Gold Coast were given start up concessions far more generous than Fremantle and Port Adelaide could have ever dreamed of, even if the Suns concessions paled in comparison to the start up concessions given to GWS.

No they weren't. Ready made players get you competitive far earlier than draft picks, who are speculative and may not work out. The Suns were also set up with very poor facilities which hampered the ability to turn those draft picks into good players. For both the Suns and Giants there was a huge number of draft picks who fled back to their home states as soon as they could, not the case for Freo and Port who had plenty of good local players they could recruit.

Also, I remember in 2010 when people were saying Gold Coast had an advantage over GWS by entering the AFL first.

Well those people were dead wrong.

This was magnified ten fold after Gold Coast signed Ablett, with people saying GWS were left with the scraps after Gold Coast had scooped up the cream.

You can always find people who get it wrong. Aussie Rules is a team sport and Ablett at the Suns is the best example of how one player can't fix a whole team.

The lack of success Gold Coast have experienced over the years has been due to their own incompetence, it's their own fault not the AFL's fault.

It's both. Do you think the AFL had no part to play in the Suns being set up with terrible facilities? Do you think they just handed a bucket a cash to a couple of people and said "go ahead boys, do as you please"? Bear in mind the AFL controls the Suns' licence.

The draft has become compromised since 2019 due to AFL assistance packages given to Gold Coast and North Melbourne - who are another example of AFL HQ rewarding clubs for their own incompetence, but the discussion regarding North is one for another thread topic.

Whatever, take it up with the AFL.

 

[Taper]

No they weren't. Ready made players get you competitive far earlier than draft picks, who are speculative and may not work out. The Suns were also set up with very poor facilities which hampered the ability to turn those draft picks into good players. For both the Suns and Giants there was a huge number of draft picks who fled back to their home states as soon as they could, not the case for Freo and Port who had plenty of good local players they could recruit.


Well those people were dead wrong.


You can always find people who get it wrong. Aussie Rules is a team sport and Ablett at the Suns is the best example of how one player can't fix a whole team.


It's both. Do you think the AFL had no part to play in the Suns being set up with terrible facilities? Do you think they just handed a bucket a cash to a couple of people and said "go ahead boys, do as you please"? Bear in mind the AFL controls the Suns' licence.


Whatever, take it up with the AFL.

You're probably the first person I've seen who has said they think Gold Coast were given worse start up concessions than Fremantle and Port Adelaide.
Leigh Matthews is on record saying that Port Adelaide would go winless in 1997.

Also, how long do you think the other clubs will put up with AFL HQ compromising the draft just so clubs like Gold Coast and North can continue to accumulate high draft picks?
Keep in mind that Tasmania is on the horizon and they're going to need draft concessions so they can build a team, and clubs such as the one I support have been deprived of high draft picks for long enough as it is.

The 2018 draft is probably the last draft that wasn't heavily compromised by special assistance packages to Gold Coast and North, and then there's the academies on top of that.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You're probably the first person I've seen who has said they think Gold Coast were given worse start up concessions than Fremantle and Port Adelaide.

For being competitive early, definitely. Freo did have it bad due to the rule around recruiting that gave Lloyd to Essendon, but they made a lot of unforced errors too. Port didn't have any such issue.

Leigh Matthews is on record saying that Port Adelaide would go winless in 1997.

Leigh Matthews is not always right, as events proved. People often get suckered by looking only at the top talent rather than the depth of the squad.

Also, how long do you think the other clubs will put up with AFL HQ compromising the draft just so clubs like Gold Coast and North can continue to accumulate high draft picks?

What will they do, break away and form their own league?

Keep in mind that Tasmania is on the horizon and they're going to need draft concessions so they can build a team, and clubs such as the one I support have been deprived of high draft picks for long enough as it is.

I'd be more than happy if Tasmania got fewer draft picks than Gold Coast or GWS did on startup, in return for being able to recruit more veterans from current AFL lists and a higher salary cap for the first five years. They would be competitive sooner and the draft would have more talent for other clubs to recruit.

 

[Always Ballin]

Updated! Another prelim.

2019: Finishes 2nd on the ladder; out in straight sets
2020: Finishes 2nd on the ladder; loses a home prelim
2021: Finishes 4th on the ladder; out in straight sets
2022: Finishes 6th on the ladder; loses an away prelim
2023: Finishes 2nd on the ladder; loses in the grand final
2024: Finishes 5th on the ladder; makes a prelim

Should the AFL be concerned with both QLD clubs sitting in the bottom 10?

Sup brah.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Updated! Another prelim.

2019: Finishes 2nd on the ladder; out in straight sets
2020: Finishes 2nd on the ladder; loses a home prelim
2021: Finishes 4th on the ladder; out in straight sets
2022: Finishes 6th on the ladder; loses an away prelim
2023: Finishes 2nd on the ladder; loses in the grand final
2024: Finishes 5th on the ladder; makes a prelim


Sup brah.

You’ve gone in balls deep on taper.

 

[Taper]

You’ve gone in balls deep on taper.

How so?
Brisbane are merely making up the numbers.
They'll be cannon fodder next week.

 

[Cmarsh]

How so?
Brisbane are merely making up the numbers.
They'll be cannon fodder next week.

I Don't think Geelong are that far ahead of them. Brisbane are a solid team.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

How so?
Brisbane are merely making up the numbers.
They'll be cannon fodder next week.

Brisbane have been consistently good for several years and qualified for finals regularly, just missing a premiership. AFL would be very happy with that.

This season, two good finals wins from 5th, including away to GWS.
They’ve already done better than 14 other teams - this is not “merely making up the numbers” regardless of next weeks result.

 

[Taper]

Brisbane have been consistently good for several years and qualified for finals regularly, just missing a premiership. AFL would be very happy with that.

This season, two good finals wins from 5th, including away to GWS.
They’ve already done better than 14 other teams - this is not “merely making up the numbers” regardless of next weeks result.

Adelaide had a similar run of 'success' under Neil Craig, but ultimately won nothing.
Premierships are the mark of success, not making up the numbers in finals and Chris Fagan is merely a Neil Craig clone.