Brownlow: Time to remove ‘fairest’ in best and fairest

[Cleansweep17]

Another case in point to remove ‘fairest’ - consider A Grade Thugs, Hitmen and Snipes like Lockett, Greg Williams, Dipper and Tony Liberatore all own Brownlows.

Unless I’m mistaken in the old Brownlow vote system the “fairest” criteria was taken in account via the actual votes. Eg if you kicked 20 goals but knocked somebody out you’d get 0 votes.

Not sure when exactly that changed but maybe it wouldn’t apply to some of those players you mentioned.

 

[Breretonisahood]

Never happen. AFL tribunal will just go into even more crazy mode to prevent suspensions of star players. Last nights Cameron decision just shows how far they will go to protect certain players.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

We already have that. It’s called the coaches award.

Do we really need an award for the same thing. Brownlow, Coaches award and MVP are really similar already.

Coaches award is okay as it’s actually done by match, so rating each week’s performance to the total.

The MVP is, just quietly, a bit of a joke. It’s just the players saying at the end of the year who they think is the best. That’s a hugely flawed system, recency bias etc would be rife.

And a lot of players almost seem to take pride in saying they don’t watch any footy apart from their own games as part of their job.

I can’t imagine much thought is put into it by many players.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Unless I’m mistaken in the old Brownlow vote system the “fairest” criteria was taken in account via the actual votes. Eg if you kicked 20 goals but knocked somebody out you’d get 0 votes.

Not sure when exactly that changed but maybe it wouldn’t apply to some of those players you mentioned.

They won Brownlows before ‘Trial by Video’ was also widespread.

That tends to help a lot.

 

[btdg]

Interestinf observation - Cooney won in 2008 ahead of Buddy (who finished 3 votes behind in equal 4th, alongside Matthew Richardson

Matthew Richardson

Age

49

Ht

195cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

3.1

3star

M

8.0

5star

T

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

7.8

5star

T

0.8

3star

and Adam Goodes, both of whome weren't midfielders).

Franklin polled votes that year every time he kicked 6 goals or more. He did not receive votes in any other game, including 3 matches in which he kicked 5 goals (one of those was a loss to the Bulldogs where Cooney had 34 disposals, kicked 2 goals and got the 3 votes).

Interestingly, in 2023 Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

(the Coleman medallist) polled votes in every match when he kicked 5 goals or more, and zero votes in all the other matches combined. He finished as the highest polling forward, 14 votes behind the winner. I think we can all agree Curnow was further off the Brownlow than Franklin in their relative years

It is almost like the umpires have a fixed baseline for forwards ie: 5 goals = votes, but any other goal tally = a midfielder deserved it more.

But that baseline has changed. Last year it was 5 goals, in 2008 it was 6 goals. When Lockett won in 1987 he polled votes in all matches with 7+ goals and only once with less. The baseline for forwards has contually fallen over time!

And insanely... if Franklin got votes at the current rate (ie you add at least one vote every time he kicked 5 goals) then he wins the 2008 Brownlow, at worst tying with Cooney.

I think a lot of this could be cleared up by redirecting the umpires and instructing them - if a forward kicks 4+ goals you need to strongly consider votes. Even just framing it that way rebalances the award imo.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Interestinf observation - Cooney won in 2008 ahead of Buddy (who finished 3 votes behind in equal 4th, alongside Matthew Richardson and Adam Goodes, both of whome weren't midfielders).

Franklin polled votes that year every time he kicked 6 goals or more. He did not receive votes in any other game, including 3 matches in which he kicked 5 goals (one of those was a loss to the Bulldogs where Cooney had 34 disposals, kicked 2 goals and got the 3 votes).

Interestingly, in 2023 Charlie Curnow (the Coleman medallist) polled votes in every match when he kicked 5 goals or more, and zero votes in all the other matches combined. He finished as the highest polling forward, 14 votes behind the winner. I think we can all agree Curnow was further off the Brownlow than Franklin in their relative years

It is almost like the umpires have a fixed baseline for forwards ie: 5 goals = votes, but any other goal tally = a midfielder deserved it more.

But that baseline has changed. Last year it was 5 goals, in 2008 it was 6 goals. When Lockett won in 1987 he polled votes in all matches with 7+ goals and only once with less. The baseline for forwards has contually fallen over time!

And insanely... if Franklin got votes at the current rate (ie you add at least one vote every time he kicked 5 goals) then he wins the 2008 Brownlow, at worst tying with Cooney.

I think a lot of this could be cleared up by redirecting the umpires and instructing them - if a forward kicks 4+ goals you need to strongly consider votes. Even just framing it that way rebalances the award imo.

Umps get a bad rap over the midfielder thing.

The coaches and players awards are won by midfielders every year.

Ablett beat Buddy in both awards in 2008.

The highest player in the coaches votes last year that you’d say isn’t a midfielder was Toby Greene, who came 9th.

Curnow finished 18th in voting.

It’s not that the umps favour mids - everybody (incl the coaches and the players themselves) favours mids.

It’s the modern game… win the midfield, win the game. Since actual planned tactics took over, the midfield is everybody’s first, second and third focus and priority.

 

[ibd77]

It is usually pretty difficult to win a Brownlow vote if you are missing games either from injury or suspension (excluding eligibility) in today's game. Suspension is enough penalty in its own right excluding the ineligibility rule.

Year	Player	Team	Votes
2023	Lachie Neale	Brisbane Lions	31
2022	Patrick Cripps	Carlton	29
2021	Ollie Wines	Port Adelaide	36
2020	Lachie Neale	Brisbane Lions	31
2019	Nat Fyfe	Fremantle	33
2018	Tom Mitchell	Hawthorn	28
2017	Dustin Martin	Richmond	36
2016	Patrick Dangerfield	Geelong	35
2015	Nat Fyfe	Fremantle	31
2014	Matt Priddis	West Coast	26
2013	Gary Ablett	Gold Coast	28
2012	Sam Mitchell	Hawthorn	26
	Trent Cotchin	Richmond	26
2011	Dane Swan	Collingwood	34
2010	Chris Judd	Carlton	30
2009	Gary Ablett	Geelong	30
2008	Adam Cooney	Western Bulldogs	24
2007	Jimmy Bartel	Geelong	29
2006	Adam Goodes	Sydney	26
2005	Ben Cousins	West Coast	20
2004	Chris Judd	West Coast	30
2003	Mark Ricciuto	Adelaide	22
	Nathan Buckley	Collingwood	22
	Adam Goodes	Sydney	22
2002	Simon Black	Brisbane Lions	25
2001	Jason Akermanis	Brisbane Lions	23
2000	Shane Woewodin	Melbourne	24
1999	Shane Crawford	Hawthorn	28
1998	Robert Harvey	St Kilda	32
1997	Robert Harvey	St Kilda	26
1996	Michael Voss	Brisbane Bears	21
	James Hird	Essendon	21
1995	Paul Kelly	Sydney	21
1994	Greg Williams	Carlton	30
1993	Gavin Wanganeen	Essendon	18
1992	Scott Wynd	Footscray	20
1991	Jim Stynes	Melbourne	25
1990	Tony Liberatore	Footscray	18

 

[Saab NLAW]

The biggest issue with the Brownlow is who awards the points

 

[btdg]

Umps get a bad rap over the midfielder thing.

The coaches and players awards are won by midfielders every year.

Ablett beat Buddy in both awards in 2008.

The highest player in the coaches votes last year that you’d say isn’t a midfielder was Toby Greene, who came 9th.

Curnow finished 18th in voting.

It’s not that the umps favour mids - everybody (incl the coaches and the players themselves) favours mids.

It’s the modern game… win the midfield, win the game. Since actual planned tactics took over, the midfield is everybody’s first, second and third focus and priority.

I totally agree. I guess in the modern era the one occasion that really stands out as a possible Brownlow win is Buddy's 2008. Even then, him finishing 4th is arguably 'fair'. Beyond that year i don't think there is a single modern season where you could argue the best performed player was a forward.

I just thought it interesting how clear cut the umpire's decision making seems - in 2008, 6+ goals = votes, anything below = no votes.

Everyone forgets that Brendan Fevola finished 1 goal behind Buddy in 2008... interestingly Fev polled in 7/8 games where he kicked 6 goals, and only once below 6 goals (he kicked 5.4 in that game) - the one exception where he kicked 7.3 and got no votes was round 22 vs Hawthorn where Buddy also kicked 6+

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I totally agree. I guess in the modern era the one occasion that really stands out as a possible Brownlow win is Buddy's 2008. Even then, him finishing 4th is arguably 'fair'. Beyond that year i don't think there is a single modern season where you could argue the best performed player was a forward.

I just thought it interesting how clear cut the umpire's decision making seems - in 2008, 6+ goals = votes, anything below = no votes.

Everyone forgets that Brendan Fevola finished 1 goal behind Buddy in 2008... interestingly Fev polled in 7/8 games where he kicked 6 goals, and only once below 6 goals (he kicked 5.4 in that game) - the one exception where he kicked 7.3 and got no votes was round 22 vs Hawthorn where Buddy also kicked 6+

I was thinking similar after the 2021 GF and Norm Smith.

Petracca was obviously great and had 39 touches and two goals. All five voters gave him the three votes and Fritsch the two votes.

Fritsch kicked six… I remember thinking, I wonder what it is that a forward actually had to do to get the three votes in most people’s eyes. Pretty much every game has at least one player get 35-40 touches. What does a forward have to do to get BOG? Kick 10 perhaps?

 

[Osho]

Anything decided by our referees is by definition probably wrong. They should be relieved of this responsibility to focus on their petty onfield overruling squables, and referring everything upstairs.

A panel of respected elders, let's elect them now before they die or are subsumed in scandal, should be placed at games their teams aren't playing in.

New criteria should be developed, the main one being effect on the game, opening the way for lower possession high impact players, and another being promoting defensive efforts.

Possesions 3m or more clear of an opponent gather no plaudits.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Laura Kane has ruled this out at least for the Rising star.

The OP is on point. In the 80s it was much harder to get reported, and when you did it was for a huge hit. Usually a thug attempt to wipe a player out of the game.

Now, with the pace of the game, it's become so much easier to get reported for minor incidents due to the pace of the game and little time to avoid contact. Given this, the 'fairest' component should be removed in it's current form and be listed as deliberate acts to cause harm only. Then there's players who are manipulating the rules and throwing themselves to the ground to get a dangerous tackle free kick among other strategies.

Noone wants players to miss awards to these sort of incidents. A Lloyd vs Lewis hit YES.

Just another example of the AFL having no understanding of how the game is played.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

I was thinking similar after the 2021 GF and Norm Smith.

Petracca was obviously great and had 39 touches and two goals. All five voters gave him the three votes and Fritsch the two votes.

Fritsch kicked six… I remember thinking, I wonder what it is that a forward actually had to do to get the three votes in most people’s eyes. Pretty much every game has at least one player get 35-40 touches. What does a forward have to do to get BOG? Kick 10 perhaps?

I've thought about this before, and I think you need benchmarks to determine the best player.

You need the best possible games over the last 20 years for reference, or even the last 10 years (Champion Data) and determine as to what constitutes the best player from the best in each position.

What that looks like for every position? In the case of 6 goals, it's significant but certainly not high up on significance to past results, but how that contrasts to what a midfielders game looks like it might do.

 

[Maddo11]

I'd be fine with the bar being raised. Any incident graded "intentional", any amount of careless incidents resulting in 3 weeks of suspensions, or a set $ value for fines (up to 10k or something).

Or something along those lines

 

[Quinz]

It's about time they remove suspension automatically making someone ineligible. Should be part of an additional penalty if it's an egregious offence.

Judd, Fyfe [x2], Cripps etc. should have been suspended under the rules but they were bent to keep them eligible. But that's the way it goes.

When acts graded careless with no injury can rule you ineligible you have to consider modifying the penalties.

If a Brownlow favourite does what Reid did they get a low contact fine. That's no good for anyone.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

When acts graded careless with no injury can rule you ineligible you have to consider modifying the penalties.

If a Brownlow favourite does what Reid did they get a low contact fine. That's no good for anyone.

Butters was close to a suspension.

Could you imagine if 3-4 of the top voted players were all ineligible due to minor incidents.

 

[HairyO]

Fines were brought in so that players werent suspended for minor things. Plus, the AFL can always deliberately **** up a Tribunal hearing to get a Brownlow favourite off if it comes to it.

They dont need to change anything. They have systems in place.

 

[blues4flag]

In an era that relied on a sole umpire seeing the incident, you could get away with a lot, and the threat of ineligibility was real.

With the number of cameras these days, any action worthy of a player being deemed unfair will be caught and likely to attract 3+ weeks.

I can't believe this is still a discussion in 2024. The threshold on one side has been lowered substantially, the threshold on the other needs to increase to match the intent behind the tradition.

 

[Engimal v3]

No change.

 

[Orange crush]

No change.

The outcry over Darcy and Reid is funny …. Didn’t hear boo when Dusty and Toby were ineligible

 

[Purple7x08_24]

The number of ways you can be reported has increased significantly. You can be reported for attacking the ball in a split second because your opponent got there first.

Needs to be ammended. The best player is the best player

 

[Engimal v3]

The number of ways you can be reported has increased significantly. You can be reported for attacking the ball in a split second because your opponent got there first.

Needs to be ammended. The best player is the best player

The best player is the best player, and the winner of the Brownlow is the Best and Fairest. If you get suspended, no win.

 

[Doashuey]

The best players tend not to be 'clumsy' on account of them being good footballers.

You don't even need to be clumsy now, you can attack the footy in a text book manner and but the other player contesting the ball can be the klutz that puts their head in a vulnerable position simply to draw a free and suddenly you have a holiday.
Agree entirely with the OP. When the rule was initially included in the award it was in the days where you had to go out of your way to punch or kick a bloke to cop a suspension. Applying it now where pure football actions and just simply good tackles have the potential to cost a player a Brownlow just doesn't make sense.

It also means that the AFL will tie itself in knots to not suspend someone for an action that anybody else who wasn't a Charly fancy would get rubbed out for. Chad Warner was the most recent one that springs to mind when he fended with a elbow. I said to my non-footy following mates at the time that I reckon he gets off because he is a red hot fav and what do you know, he gets a massive fine (relative to fines handed out for on field stuff) and no suspension. The size of the fine alone tells you the AFL knew it was worth a stint on the sidelines. So not only does it sometimes cost a fair player the chance at a Brownlow, it also incentivises the AFL to continue with inconsistent application of the rules.

I think it should be a case of intent of the action. It you get rubbed out for careless actions then you are still eligible. If the action is deemed intentional, then you are ineligible.

 

[sherb]

The Brownlow is a bullshit award anyway since it is so reliant on

a. being a midfielder
b. being a midfielder that the umpires easily recognise

It isn't a best player in the league award, it is a midfielder award, and many times it doesn't even get that right when deciding who was the best midfielder in the competition in any given year.

Yeah, it's the Midfielders' Medal these days.

When I first started following the game, you had players like Thompson, Moore, Dempsey, Teasdale, Moss, Quinlan, Round etc who won the Brownlow. Non-midfielders such as those players have no hope of winning these days.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Honestly I’m open to this idea.

It would run it in Jobe’s face even more