Updated Bruce Lehrmann * Justice Lee - "Mr Lehrmann r*ped Ms Higgins."

[Kurve]

Historical Rape Allegation Against Fmr AG Christian Porter
The Alexander Matters matters

Just a reminder, this is the crime board and we need to be aware that there will be victims of crime either watching this thread or engaging in here from time to time. A degree of respect in all discussions is expected.

LINK TO TIMELINE
CJS INQUIRY
FINAL REPORT – BOARD OF INQUIRY – CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
Joint media statement – Chief Minister and Attorney-General

LINK TO FEDERAL COURT DEFAMATION PROCEEDINGS

 

[Wooden Robot]

I've never said I thought he was guilty of rape because I don't know that. What I have said is that imo it defies common sense and logic to believe that nothing of a sexual nature or exchange occurred in the ministers office.

If she plain fell asleep it does.

 

[Toump Ass]

She’s as messy and disorganised as I'd expect her to be in the circumstances.

For real?

She’s a university-educated media advisor who’s likely been paid six figures to relay this story to the cameras already, supported by top dog lawyers…

edit: she prepared a timeline of events before she even pressed charges didn’t she?

I’m not saying she’s full of shit but she doesn’t sound like she’s not full of shit.

 

[Toump Ass]

Wouldn’t surprise me if Brucey is a similarly shonky operator too though.

 

[Kurve]

having the defence tear apart your statement and find factual inaccuracies is NEVER good for the prosecution. It would appear she has either not prepared well, or she is struggling under the pressure.

It goes against their credibility and their ability to recall correct information.

To prove this case the prosecution had to rely on circumstantial evidence, and when the evidence being shown is factually incorrect, it does not bode well.

Unless Lehrmann has a complete stinker on the stand, this is heavily favoring him.

I agree, it doesn't look good and many latch on to small inaccuracies as if it's absolute proof of lying or a dishonest character when for me on my reading of trauma response, it isn't necessarily so.

 

[Kurve]

For real?

She’s a university-educated media advisor who’s likely been paid six figures to relay this story to the cameras already, supported by top dog lawyers…

edit: she prepared a timeline of events before she even pressed charges didn’t she?

I’m not saying she’s full of s**t but she doesn’t sound like she’s not full of s**t.

You're exagerrating her job and quals, she was a junior who wanted to go back to university. Did she even get her degree? Neither here nor there though, she isn't the same person as she was before whatever happened in the ministers office.

She has panic attacks post incident, she takes valium and has done at least one stint in hospital for mental health issues, probably a breakdown. So yeah, she's a bit messy.

 

[Wooden Robot]

I agree, it doesn't look good and many latch on to small inaccuracies as if it's absolute proof of lying or a dishonest character when for me on my reading of trauma response, it isn't necessarily so.

For what it's worth, I don't think anyone has latched onto inaccuracies as proof she is lying or dishonest, or anything else.
More what everyone is pointing out, - and looking at it objectively - that the inaccuracies and generally shambolic recollections are hurting her case, not strengthening it.
I don't know if he's guilty, or not guilty, but sitting back reading what's transpiring, the actual seeds of doubt have been firmly planted ad the doubt is continuing to grow.
There might be something big coming - a smoking gun - but sitting back watching it from afar, it would be near impossible to convict right now.
And my gut is telling me, this has been played out all wrong .. that is media first.

 

[Toump Ass]

for real, didn’t realise higgs did some hospital time.

 

[Wooden Robot]

having the defence tear apart your statement and find factual inaccuracies is NEVER good for the prosecution. It would appear she has either not prepared well, or she is struggling under the pressure.

It goes against their credibility and their ability to recall correct information.

To prove this case the prosecution had to rely on circumstantial evidence, and when the evidence being shown is factually incorrect, it does not bode well.

Unless Lehrmann has a complete stinker on the stand, this is heavily favoring him.

I doubt he takes the stand.

 

[Lockyer24]

Fascinating to see how Bandana man operates when he smelled a buck

 

[FrankGrimes]

Typical bullshit from the defence Throw everything at discrediting the victim.

Rinse and repeat.

That’s their job and why they get paid a shitload of money, if you where on trial wouldn’t you want your lawyer to do everything possible to get you off

 

[Marlo]

Were they hooking up at the bar before they missioned back to Parliament?

 

[Wooden Robot]

Fascinating to see how Bandana man operates when he smelled a buck

Reckon if he's found not guilty, his and her highness apologise for ruining Higgins' case?

 

[jason_recliner]

No, they need to show beyond reasonable doubt that he did rape her.

Although I understand what you are getting at, and coming up with (or explaining) a viable alternative could certainly help his case, if the prosecution hasn't met that threshold (in the jury's eyes) then he doesn't need to explain a thing. That's all I was saying.

I also get what you're saying, I think we're saying the same thing, and it's probably just semantics. It's not possible to prove in many cases that something did happen, only to show that it's likely something happened, to varying degrees of confidence. In this case it's pretty clear that nobody can prove anything happened and it's going to be very hard for the prosecution to show beyond reasonable doubt that something likely happened.

 

[spike101]

The inquiry labelled Parliament House as a 'drinking culture'. I recall through the Choppergate scandal seeing Bronwyn Bishop's eye popping alcohol expenses, in to the tens of thousands. Can't find it now, they might have wiped it.

The review conducted by Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins was released on Tuesday and launched in the wake of the alleged rape of former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins.

The report identified “significant alcohol use” and a “drinking culture” to be one of the risk factors that can contribute to the prevalence of workplace bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Another recalled a time when they were “drunk on free booze” in a parliamentarian’s office: “You’ve got this room of 20-year-olds with a 60-year-old man … plying them all with alcohol in an enclosed room, in a professional office building. It’s not a recipe for good professional behaviour. "

Booze in parliament: 'drinking culture' under microscope in major workplace review

A review by the Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins has taken aim at the drinking culture at Parliament House, joining a chorus of others calling for greater regulation.

www.sbs.com.au

I thhink that is a different situation from two people arriving early in the morning on thier own

 

[Kurve]

I think the court might get to see the CCTV of Lehrmann leaving.

Guard spoke of something 'strange'​

Once inside the office, Ms Higgins has said the male colleague began looking for the item he needed to retrieve and she fell asleep on a couch.

She later told news.com.au and Network Ten's The Project that she woke to find the man on top of her.

"I woke up mid-rape, essentially," she said.

"Um, I, I don't know why I knew he was almost finished, but I'd, I'd felt like it had been going on for a while or that he was almost done. He was sweaty. I couldn't get him off of me. At this point I started crying."

CCTV shows the man left Parliament House at 2:35am, less than an hour after he had arrived with Ms Higgins.

At 3:00am, Nikola Anderson went to relieve a colleague at the ministerial entrance who was due for a meal break. He told her he thought the man had been acting strangely when he left.

"My colleague had tried to make conversation with him and he seemed to be in a hurry," she said.

"That was when my colleague and I decided that we needed to push it up the chain and notify our night shift team leader that there might've been something a bit strange going on."

Security guard who found Brittany Higgins on night of alleged rape speaks out

On March 23, 2019, Nikola Anderson's overnight shift as a security guard at Parliament House was like any other — until Brittany Higgins and her male colleague arrived in the early hours of the morning.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Mick 77]

This case is done she is all over the place.
Any half decent defence has found it so easy to discredit her.
Easy to tell the truth not easy to lie under the heat she lied simple.
All over red rover.
For some of you there could be video clearing him and you would still say he’s guilty!!

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I doubt he takes the stand.

No chance if he was my client (based on what has been reported of the evidence).

Problem is that if he’s innocent, that will always hurt him in the court of public opinion.

 

[Toump Ass]

For what it's worth, I don't think anyone has latched onto inaccuracies as proof she is lying or dishonest, or anything else.
More what everyone is pointing out, - and looking at it objectively - that the inaccuracies and generally shambolic recollections are hurting her case, not strengthening it.

Yup.
The commercial aspect of it, going on the biggest current events show on television for a big interview, a $320,000 book deal you've already got chapters for before you go to the cops, that's not helping her credibility IMO either.

Her boyfriend on the recording saying they got a friend they can lean on to push the story in question time, that's a bit... I dunno. Like worry about making the Liberal Party look shitty AFTER you get a ****in' GP and the cops involved ffs.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Yup.
The commercial aspect of it, going on the biggest current events show on television for a big interview, a $320,000 book deal you've already got chapters for before you go to the cops, that's not helping her credibility IMO either.

Her boyfriend on the recording saying they got a friend they can lean on to push the story in question time, that's a bit... I dunno. Like worry about making the Liberal Party look shitty AFTER you get a *in' GP and the cops involved ffs.

It all looks very low-rent, I'd be stunned by a guilty verdict and am also smelling a malicious prosecution lawsuit in retaliation

The girl must have had a lot of terrible advice along the way

 

[Kwality]

From the Guardian.

On why there were deletes in her phone before she handed it to the police.

Whybrow asked her whether she was concerned police would try to “suppress” what was on her phone.

She said she was concer ned that information might be passed to the office of the then home affairs minister, Peter Dutton.

Dutton, she told the court, had already publicly revealed “baseline information” about her case, well before she gave her evidence in chief interview to police.

Brittany Higgins feared information about alleged rape could flow to Peter Dutton, court hears

Higgins tells court she shared audio files before deleting them from her phone because she was worried about what the police might do with the contents

www.theguardian.com

Dutton, whats he got to do with the criminal case against Lehrmann

Problem Ms Higgins is having:

'Brittany Higgins has conceded she distributed a dossier and timeline to the press on the day the story of her rape allegation was published on February 15 in 2021.

Ms Higgins told the jury on Thursday her partner David Sharaz had distributed the documents to two journalists.

“Peter Dutton came out and said he had a baseline outline of my case before I even gave an evidence-in-chief interview. I know how information flows within the ministerial wing. I know that it’s not siloed. I was very scared, so I was seeking legal advice to know my rights because I was terrified.” The Age

"Ms Higgins said she was "terrified" the moment she reengaged with police and after then Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton said he was aware of her allegations.

"I was seeking legal advice to know my rights because I was terrified," she said through tears.

She said information wasn't "siloed" between departments". The Australian.

IMO One mastehad 'supports" the Higgins version and the other doesn't.

Can you link the articles involved ? Clearly there is context to the quotes.

 

[Kwality]

Whether he did what is being alleged, or not - what's his story for leaving her on the couch and legging it? I mean, it makes sense if he did do it, but if he didn't?

IF he is called by the Defence he can be cross examined.

 

[Kwality]

Wouldn’t surprise me if Brucey is a similarly shonky operator too though.

Fortunately the Criminal Court are hearing this, not the Court of Public Opinion.

 

[Toump Ass]

Whether he did what is being alleged, or not - what's his story for leaving her on the couch and legging it? I mean, it makes sense if he did do it, but if he didn't?

"I was just there to knock one out on a minister's desk and film it for my Whattsapp group. It was the fashion at the time. I forgot I'd dragged higgy along with me and went home".

 

[Nice Swan Brother]

I genuinely feel for her. At first I thought the decision to go public prior to a police complaint would jeopardise a fair trial. Whilst I still feel that to a degree, I can’t get past how poorly she has been treated by those who purported to be on her side. What were her BF, LW etc… trying to achieve? Scomo’s demise ahead of justice?

And her legal team, despite the time they’ve had, have done an ordinary job of preparing her for the trial.

It was pointed out earlier that she has aged quickly over the past 12 months, surely the media scrutiny has contributed to that.

We’ll likely never know 100% what happened that night, but the vultures need to be held accountable.

Fitz/Wilkes should hand their heads in shame.

I hope she finds happiness regardless of the outcome.

 

[Lady O]

I've never said I thought he was guilty of rape because I don't know that. What I have said is that imo it defies common sense and logic to believe that nothing of a sexual nature or exchange occurred in the ministers office.

Well not really. In her drunken state, there may have been a desire on her behalf to have sex with him. So she could have removed her underwear and invited him ********** before falling asleep. He, knowing that she was too drunk to give consent, legged it like a good boy should and only afterwards remembered the papers he went there to get.