News Buckley at the wheel - Jake Niall

[TradeDraft]

It's its own thread, if we haven't got one already.
I guess the question is: who will be our next premiership back 6?

Do you think Frost, Oxley and Sinclair are in it, TD?

I haven't seen enough of the first two to say much, and Sinclair would be an outsider for mine [sorry, Snoop ] although I admire how he adapted so quickly to a new role last season so I think he's definitely earned some points.

Frost and Sinclair I can see being there, Not Sure on Oxley

 

[noideaatall]

I thought the article a bit light weight, stated the obvious and didn't really question or propose anything of note. Lots of rich stuff to dissect in the whole notion of Bucks clearly taking control, didn't delve into a drop.

The punch line, that Adams, pick 6 and 10 will be central to the success of the 'current direction' was more of the same. Its in the same vein as saying the performance of Cloke, Swan and Pendlebury will be central to our success in 2014. Not that there is any real attempt to define what this new approach is. Its not like using your draft picks rather than trading them out is something radical, nor trading for higher picks.

My ten cents is, we should be judging the current recruiting, development and head coach on their ability to draft and develop the lesser ranks, not the relative value of their top picks.

An absolute awesome drafting team is going to spot the right talent for the need in the lesser ranks. A great development/support team is going to fill the holes that were missing. A fantastic coach is going to inspire them to play their best footy ever.

I'm no MM fan nor want to bring that division into the discussion. As an example though, I think MM did have that ability to bring the best out in some. I would like to see Bucks make something out of White, PK and maybe Armstrong just as much as I want to see pick 6 or 10 develop as they should.

 

[Hardas]

Yeah , well it's a whole club thing developing players full potential, but I know what you mean: say what you like [or don't like] about MM, but they tend to really play for him. Although the game requires skills and planning that may well have passed by the 'play hard' thing, given how many teams have adapted to the need for defensive sides and F50 tackling etc.

 

[Hva sher a]

Let me state that I am a massive bucks fan.

However I do believe bucks is under a bit of pressure. 8th this year wasn't good enough even considering injuries, with our list.

If we go backwards again this year and miss the 8, bucks probably won't lose his job but there will some kind of review imo.

I too am a Bucks fan. And I agree that without improvement he will come under pressure...but it that a bad thing?
It seemed to work for Bomber Thompson after 2006 when the Catters underperformed. Clarko was under pressure to win the 2nd flag with the list he had. And Mick himself was under pressure to deliver a legacy after 10 flagless years,
Pressure helps people focus and while I don't doubt Bucks is a professional, having some pressure will further force Bucks to bite the bullet and do things his way...which he is starting to.
I think this trade/draft period is going to be the single most important/influential time of Buck's coaching career

 

[Collin Wood]

Pie's should be Pies'. They were correct in the preceding paragraph. Online has been the death of editing. I can't remember the last time I read an article online that didn't have an error.

Pies should be 'Pies. Pie's should be 'Pies'. Thoughts? (Apologies if this has been done already...haven't had time to read all posts yet).

 

[Hardas]

Pies should be 'Pies. Pie's should be 'Pies'. Thoughts? (Apologies if this has been done already...haven't had time to read all posts yet).

'Pies' [forward line] is technically correct, but no longer necessary once Pies has become a widely-accepted standard short form of Magpies. [Good point, Col]

 

[noideaatall]

Yeah , well it's a whole club thing developing players full potential, but I know what you mean: say what you like [or don't like] about MM, but they tend to really play for him. Although the game requires skills and planning that may well have passed by the 'play hard' thing, given how many teams have adapted to the need for defensive sides and F50 tackling etc.

Yeah look I think the whole coach/player mental/emotional relationship is one thing, and I agree with what your saying in terms of the game moving past this, but at the end of the day the 'whole club thing' has got to show an ability to develop the lesser lights just as much if not more than the top draft picks. In the current AFL trading environment I suspect teams that can get more out of their 'B' grade players and drafts may just be the ones who win gfs.

 

[speedytiger]

We won't miss the 8, but there will be plenty who won't be happy even if we miss top 4, which is likely.

I think that comes from the frustration of winning just the one flag from such a great group of players. I'm not sure we are ready to sign off on this era accepting the one flag. Which is odd as being Collingwood supporters we should be grateful for any grand final win!

 

[jonbe54]

I think that comes from the frustration of winning just the one flag from such a great group of players. I'm not sure we are ready to sign off on this era accepting the one flag. Which is odd as being Collingwood supporters we should be grateful for any grand final win!

Look at that group

Pendlebury pure silk
Swan the athletes athlete
Ball Mr 1%er
Jolly Great 1st ruck
Cloke Sensational marking target up front
Didak Mr X factor
Johnno the complete running backman
Thomas sensational 2 way runner who tackled far above his weight

With the utmost respect and gratitude to the rest we were able to get players to play roles, combine that with stopping the opposition run from defense and we had a winning combination.

Once the opposition worked out a way through or around the press the gig was up, now we are recasting the team structures for a more balanced approach, it may take a little longer than Micks deeply conservative and structurally limited game plan BUT it should last longer.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Look at that group

Pendlebury pure silk
Swan the athletes athlete
Ball Mr 1%er
Jolly Great 1st ruck
Cloke Sensational marking target up front
Didak Mr X factor
Johnno the complete running backman
Thomas sensational 2 way runner who tackled far above his weight

With the utmost respect and gratitude to the rest we were able to get players to play roles, combine that with stopping the opposition run from defense and we had a winning combination.

Once the opposition worked out a way through or around the press the gig was up, now we are recasting the team structures for a more balanced approach, it may take a little longer than Micks deeply conservative and structurally limited game plan BUT it should last longer.

Gees I hope not, it took him 10 years

 

[Bay Pie]

Its not like using your draft picks rather than trading them out is something radical, nor trading for higher picks.

I'm no MM fan nor want to bring that division into the discussion. As an example though, I think MM did have that ability to bring the best out in some. I would like to see Bucks make something out of White, PK and maybe Armstrong just as much as I want to see pick 6 or 10 develop as they should.

Trading out/letting go A-graders and/or very good players for more early picks is a radical move for a team that has made the finals for the past 8 years.

How often has this happened in the past?

I like the aggressive way we are restructuring our squad. Now have to nail those picks.

What recycled players did MM turn around? Jolly and Ball were already guns when they came to us. Woewodin went from a BL medalist to delisted in a few years. MM got the most out of many rookies no doubt. Bucks has done that with Marley Williams and there is scope there for Witts, Oxley, Frost, Martin etc to add to that. Dwyer also was a hit in his 1st year.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Yeah look I think the whole coach/player mental/emotional relationship is one thing, and I agree with what your saying in terms of the game moving past this, but at the end of the day the 'whole club thing' has got to show an ability to develop the lesser lights just as much if not more than the top draft picks. In the current AFL trading environment I suspect teams that can get more out of their 'B' grade players and drafts may just be the ones who win gfs.

I'd agree with this. Look at the Swans with Richards, Morton, Shaw, Jolly, Mumford. I mean these guys were not in their bottom six but they were not considered stars when traded. We need a bit of that fairy dust with the likes of Young, White, Karnezis. We need Clarke or Mooney to become Taigh Keneally. If this can come from the leading teams stuff then great. As people often say, its your bottom 6 that win you the flag.

 

[September Action]

I thought the article a bit light weight, stated the obvious and didn't really question or propose anything of note. Lots of rich stuff to dissect in the whole notion of Bucks clearly taking control, didn't delve into a drop.

The punch line, that Adams, pick 6 and 10 will be central to the success of the 'current direction' was more of the same. Its in the same vein as saying the performance of Cloke, Swan and Pendlebury will be central to our success in 2014. Not that there is any real attempt to define what this new approach is. Its not like using your draft picks rather than trading them out is something radical, nor trading for higher picks.

My ten cents is, we should be judging the current recruiting, development and head coach on their ability to draft and develop the lesser ranks, not the relative value of their top picks.

An absolute awesome drafting team is going to spot the right talent for the need in the lesser ranks. A great development/support team is going to fill the holes that were missing. A fantastic coach is going to inspire them to play their best footy ever.

I'm no MM fan nor want to bring that division into the discussion. As an example though, I think MM did have that ability to bring the best out in some. I would like to see Bucks make something out of White, PK and maybe Armstrong just as much as I want to see pick 6 or 10 develop as they should.

I think your points are valid; I did allude to missing points in the article myself.

The point is though, Bucks has the changes he's pushed for. The team structure is being radically recast. It's going to be really interesting to see what he does with it all now. And yes, development of these younger players will be hugely important. Both the high draft picks and the rest. FWIW, I think '14 will also be a development year. I think Dekka wants another crack at the draft next year - so we may even see another interesting trade or two then. I believe the true test for Bucks will be in '15.

I am glad to see the end of Mick. Even as our coach I didn't like his arrogant, bullying, petulant and ego driven ways. But he did coach well in those last 2-3yrs. And most of all, his ability to get the best out of players was pretty cool. They really played for him. I feel this is the biggest danger with Bucks ATM. That and the fact he was taken apart by Clarkson and Hinkley this year. I trust and presume Bucks is smart enough to be "restructuring"and "developing" himself too, as part of this rebuild. It's stupid to think you'll be at your best in your first year or two of such a demanding job.

One final point about Mick and the players playing for him - + his loyal asides...Buttifant etc. People's public personas can be vastly different to their private ones. Layton Hewitt, by all accounts is a ripping bloke as per those close to him. But gee he reads as a tool to the rest of us. I suspect Mick is the same. He must actually be a good bloke. But his behaviour got under my skin in '08-'11

 

[speedytiger]

Once the opposition worked out a way through or around the press the gig was up, now we are recasting the team structures for a more balanced approach, it may take a little longer than Micks deeply conservative and structurally limited game plan BUT it should last longer.

I thought the same thing late 2011 but i still see sides pressing now and doing just fine. The only difference i see is our manic pressure has dropped off. Without that no gameplan will hold up

 

[jonbe54]

I thought the same thing late 2011 but i still see sides pressing now and doing just fine. The only difference i see is our manic pressure has dropped off. Without that no gameplan will hold up

The forward press is one thing and manic pressure is another but we had 'role players' applying those who don't have the versatility to adapt once the press is pierced - hence the rebuild - we've heard Bux and Hine say an nauseum that prime requisite for new recruits is versatility.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

The forward press is one thing and manic pressure is another but we had 'role players' applying those who don't have the versatility to adapt once the press is pierced - hence the rebuild - we've heard Bux and Hine say an nauseum that prime requisite for new recruits is versatility.

I thought the same thing late 2011 but i still see sides pressing now and doing just fine. The only difference i see is our manic pressure has dropped off. Without that no gameplan will hold up

With the interchange cap in 2014, maintaining that kind of pressure for 4 quarters will be difficult.
Maybe in bursts only, to break open the game.

 

[Billy#25]

Fully ag

I think your points are valid; I did allude to missing points in the article myself.

The point is though, Bucks has the changes he's pushed for. The team structure is being radically recast. It's going to be really interesting to see what he does with it all now. And yes, development of these younger players will be hugely important. Both the high draft picks and the rest. FWIW, I think '14 will also be a development year. I think Dekka wants another crack at the draft next year - so we may even see another interesting trade or two then. I believe the true test for Bucks will be in '15.

I am glad to see the end of Mick. Even as our coach I didn't like his arrogant, bullying, petulant and ego driven ways. But he did coach well in those last 2-3yrs. And most of all, his ability to get the best out of players was pretty cool. They really played for him. I feel this is the biggest danger with Bucks ATM. That and the fact he was taken apart by Clarkson and Hinkley this year. I trust and presume Bucks is smart enough to be "restructuring"and "developing" himself too, as part of this rebuild. It's stupid to think you'll be at your best in your first year or two of such a demanding job.

One final point about Mick and the players playing for him - + his loyal asides...Buttifant etc. People's public personas can be vastly different to their private ones. Layton Hewitt, by all accounts is a ripping bloke as per those close to him. But gee he reads as a tool to the rest of us. I suspect Mick is the same. He must actually be a good bloke. But his behaviour got under my skin in '08-'11

Fully agree. This thread has mainly discussed Bucks' ability to develop / mould a team of his choice. Improvement in game day tactics is equally cricital to success. The loss to Gold Coast cost us a shot a the 4 and you've mentioned Clarkson / Hinkley. To be fair, maybe Clarkson just has more ammunition at his disposal but losing to Port twice was telling

 

[Billy#25]

Trading out/letting go A-graders and/or very good players for more early picks is a radical move for a team that has made the finals for the past 8 years.

How often has this happened in the past?

I like the aggressive way we are restructuring our squad. Now have to nail those picks.

What recycled players did MM turn around? Jolly and Ball were already guns when they came to us. Woewodin went from a BL medalist to delisted in a few years. MM got the most out of many rookies no doubt. Bucks has done that with Marley Williams and there is scope there for Witts, Oxley, Frost, Martin etc to add to that. Dwyer also was a hit in his 1st year.

I think the article misrepresents the Daisy position, as if the Pies / Bucks entirely drove the outcome. As you mentioned, trading stars hasn't happened regularly in the recent past, but free agency is new and therefore the new history is being rewritten. It may be we didn't chase Daisy aggressively, or it may be with injuries, we simply didn't see him as worth the amount Carlton would pay, but it doesn't necessarily mean Bucks openly traded Daisy. The Shaw outcome, however, clearly shows Bucks wants the team to be disciplined.

 

[Billy#25]

I say we could possibly win the Flag in 2014 IF we don't have many Injuries. Bit Like in 2010 when People thought we where a Season away from being a Contender.

I agree some of the Players would need a season together to get the Continuity

It's interesting this year. First time in years we will have a softer draw given more games against the middle 6 teams from this year. Champion data has had us with the 1st or 2nd hardest draw for the last 3 years (from memory). That alone got Adelaide to top 4 in 2012, and helped Sydney to a degree in the last few years. It guarantees nothing, but may help with player rotation and keeping the players fresher and certainly give you a better shot at the 16 or so games required for Top 4. And yes, I know we lost to GC and Port x2 this year!!

Injuries will alwasy play a role, but I think our destiny this year beyond injury will be;

- Does Brody Grundy come on (and stay fit)
- Finding 2x Half back flanks that can provide drive as well as be effective defensively\
- Hopefully natural progression from the younger brigade - Keefe, Williams, Elliott, Thomas, Fasolo.

If that happens with an easier draw, I still think Top 4 is a chance.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I think the article misrepresents the Daisy position, as if the Pies / Bucks entirely drove the outcome. As you mentioned, trading stars hasn't happened regularly in the recent past, but free agency is new and therefore the new history is being rewritten. It may be we didn't chase Daisy aggressively, or it may be with injuries, we simply didn't see him as worth the amount Carlton would pay, but it doesn't necessarily mean Bucks openly traded Daisy. The Shaw outcome, however, clearly shows Bucks wants the team to be disciplined.

I'm of a slightly different view.

I think Bucks made a conscience decision (just looking at it from the outside) to strip away any remaining long held MM linkages.
Those that couldn't or wouldn't accept that there was going to be a new paradigm were delisted (Jolly, Dids) or allowed to go (Daisy) or asked to go (Shaw).
If the rumours are true about MM, in that he only ever consulted with 5 or so senior players and all the rest got their instructions from the assistant coaches, then it might be that some of those that were in the MM inner sanctum felt that they should continue to have the same level of privilege under Bucks and when it became evident that it wasn't going to be so they became agitated. A perfectly normal initial human reaction.
The difference was, after 2 years, they weren't able to adjust and tried to hold onto their past positions of team influence.

In steps Bucks and says "sorry guys, you've had 2 years to adjust and you aren't able to do it, we need to make changes"

Transfer that thinking to the corporate world and you see what Bucks did is a fairly common occurrence

 

[BEEG]

Team is finally Buckley's he now gets two years in my opinion this one needs to show game plan improvement the next needs to be getting back near the top 4

Back line is an issue Hurn should be our number one target next year

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

I've often thought as an outsider that the 'genius' of coaching is just the genius of 'simplicity'. There are very few actual geniuses who can produce patented strategies that shape the way the game is played - in recent times maybe Clarkson and Lyon? Otherwise - get them to play for you, get them to have a common sense of purpose, get them to understand their role and be predictable, get them to understand some simple mathematics - DI's, 1% acts, 16 inside fifties per quarter for 4 goals will win you 90% of games, if you combine it with 60+ tackles, make that 95%. Simple, clear, understandable processes that people understand. Isn't that what we all want in the workplace? I know I do!

I'm a fan of Hinkley and was rapt to see him get a gig and didn't even begrudge his success over us this year. But I also think he has had a bit of a honeymoon year, great young recruits hitting their straps, no expectations, a free wheeling, fun style of footy that entertains, suddenly you're the sexy team in town. Doing it again next year and the year after etc, will be the challenge for Ken. My point is, I don't think Bucks has had his honeymoon yet. At no stage has he had this chemistry. I hope he gets it and uses it well and sustains it as a coach. I don't think he will be a coaching genius but I see him as someone who can do the simple things well and hopefully put together a great team.

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

Pies should be 'Pies. Pie's should be 'Pies'. Thoughts? (Apologies if this has been done already...haven't had time to read all posts yet).

Correct.

Thank you.

Good grammar's important.

 

[muzzy2]

Correct.

Thank you.

Good grammar's important.

Bad Gramma's are important too.

There still family...






(Yes, this post is a piss take...)

 

[MyManLynch]

Bad Gramma's are important too.

There still family...






(Yes, this post is a piss take...)

Should be 'they are' or they're