Burka Must Be Banned In Public Places

[passthebottle]

A lot of people call for immigrants to learn the English language. What should we do with those of our own who can't speak or write it?

Please explain what you said and i'll respond.

Only one explanation for her dribble DRUGS??
Morroco a muslim country. Only a handful did i see wearing the burka or full covering. So the percentage in oz would be very little me thinks. More mass hysteria for the tree swingers to get worked up over.

 

[OB1]

Perhaps a Muslim posters (or anyone else who knows) can give us an explination of the burka's origins & why its only a small % of Muslim Women who wear it. Do we actually establish if these so called religious requirements have any real basis or do we simply accept every single cultural request? Does it actually say anywhere in the Quran that Muslim women must wear them or is it simply something that has evolved from a deisre to control women? Personally I don't care what people choose to wear but I don't think its appropriate to make exceptions for anyone choosing to hide their identity. Are they allowed to drive while wearing a burka? I'd imagine that it would have to restrict your vision. The scarfs don't bother me, even non-muslim european women have been wearing them for ages but I don't think the deire to wear them should overide any other clothing requirements e.g school or work related uniforms. If you CHOOSE to attend a school that doesn't have a head scarf as its uniform then you should respect that schools requirements. As has been pointed out by others the freedom to wear anything you like doesn't really exist. We all have to live by rules & regulations so I can't see why Mulsims should expect exemption.

 

[IntheNet]

A lot of people call for immigrants to learn the English language. What should we do with those of our own who can't speak or write it?

Immigrants, in my opinion, have a requirement and an obligation to learn the national language... bilingualism should not be allowed.

 

[Bombers 2003]

bilingualism should not be allowed.

What about in Canada?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

What about in Canada?

Or Ireland?

 

[Richo83]

Immigrants, in my opinion, have a requirement and an obligation to learn the national language... bilingualism should not be allowed.

Oh jeez. If they come to this country we WANT THEM TO BE BILINGUAL. As they already know their local language from their previous country, then move here where they learn English, becoming bilingual.

I'm bilingual, do I have to move to another country?

 

[Richo83]

Its time this garment was banned in public places.

People are not allowed to wear helmets or stockings on their heads when entering a bank etc.. so the burka shouldnt either.

Not to mention how repressive it is for women

So we restrict freedoms to increace the freedoms of muslum women. I am confused.

Western society places many repressive demands on women, like high heels that defy the laws of gravity, or the fact that even in the dead of winter, gonig out you'll see a man wearing a suit, whereas the girl will be wearing a dress the size of a hanky, often because it is the expected attire.

 

[Copernicus]

Immigrants, in my opinion, have a requirement and an obligation to learn the national language... bilingualism should not be allowed.

Are you mad? Bilingualism should be encouraged for people immigrating from a non-English speaking country. It's not like they can just forget their home language. See reality.

 

[Copernicus]

So if you leave me you are a cretin. I stand by my views but you are a useless indivdual who can't stand by your views. Absolute moron. Grow up.

Who are you talking to?

 

[froars]

Immigrants, in my opinion, have a requirement and an obligation to learn the national language... bilingualism should not be allowed.

I was talking about Katthawk's inability to speak the English lingo. I'm presuming he/she is Australian - should we deport him/her lol

 

[IntheNet]

Bilingualism should be encouraged for people immigrating from a non-English speaking country...

Wrong copernicus. Quebec, Canada is a perfect example of such chaos... bilingualism allows immigrants to delay learning language; a crutch! Better for them to learn the national language ASAP...a national language should not be compromised...it is a nation's identity... bilingualism makes the new language something to be avoided....a bad policy.

 

[mighty tiges]

Wrong copernicus. Quebec, Canada is a perfect example of such chaos... bilingualism allows immigrants to delay learning language; a crutch! Better for them to learn the national language ASAP...a national language should not be compromised...it is a nation's identity... bilingualism makes the new language something to be avoided....a bad policy.

You're contradicting yourself. If immigrants hold onto their mother-tongue then they will remain monolingual. We want them to become bilingual.

Let's turn this around. Scientists from all over the world must know English. All conferences and internationally recognised journals are in English only. If they can't speak, red and write in English they won't get past first base. Are these German, Japanese, Brazilian, etc scientists compromising their nation's identity? Nup!

Go to Europe and you'll meet people who can speak up to 5 languages fluently. They are taught English at school starting in primary school. Are these countries' education system compromising their own nation's identity by teaching English almost in tandem with their own? Nup!

It's a plus to be multilingual not a negative.

 

[Weaver]

Perhaps a Muslim posters (or anyone else who knows) can give us an explination of the burka's origins & why its only a small % of Muslim Women who wear it.

The burka is tribal wear for desert cultures. Many desert communities wear full covering - eg the Tuareg.

Do we actually establish if these so called religious requirements have any real basis or do we simply accept every single cultural request? Does it actually say anywhere in the Quran that Muslim women must wear them or is it simply something that has evolved from a deisre to control women?

The Koran requires all people to dress modestly in public. That rule applies both to men and women.

The question is then, what is dressing modestly? Some examples are given in the Koran about covering your head etc. But the burkha is simply one Muslim culture's answer to the modesty question, and their answer predates Islam and has no basis in religion.

Personally I don't care what people choose to wear but I don't think its appropriate to make exceptions for anyone choosing to hide their identity. Are they allowed to drive while wearing a burka? I'd imagine that it would have to restrict your vision.

In many cases women who choose to wear a burkha may also not be driving or banking. I doubt a burkha has any effect on walking kids to school or going shopping.

The scarfs don't bother me, even non-muslim european women have been wearing them for ages but I don't think the deire to wear them should overide any other clothing requirements e.g school or work related uniforms.

Young girls are not required to wear the burkha, so the school one is irrelevant. Also in the Australian context, those women who are wearing the full burkha are more than likely not in the work force.

If you CHOOSE to attend a school that doesn't have a head scarf as its uniform then you should respect that schools requirements. As has been pointed out by others the freedom to wear anything you like doesn't really exist. We all have to live by rules & regulations so I can't see why Mulsims should expect exemption.

Common sense can easily apply. A student can be in uniform and wearing a turban or scarf in school colours.

A school can easily extend its uniform policy to allow the wearing of such religious clothing as long as it is within certain limits and conforms to the school's colours.

 

[iameviljez]

Immigrants, in my opinion, have a requirement and an obligation to learn the national language... bilingualism should not be allowed.

This is ridiculous on a number of fronts. Firstly, how the hell do you propose that people unlearn a language? Hook them up to a machine and say, "here, forget this!"? It's crazy.
The second - and possibly even more important - point to make is that when you are not fluent - or barely even competent - in a language, even when you are living in an environment of that language then you simply need to speak your own language (let's assume an Anglophone living in China, like I was) once in a while for the sakes of your own sanity. You cannot walk around all day with complex ideas in your head and no way of expressing them for maybe even years; otherwise you are reduced to a simple form of Newspeak as outlined by Orwell in the ubiquitous 1984.
Equally poignant is the notion that, especially if you come from a lingual background that is not even remotely related to English, English is a damn tough language to learn. Put simply, I know Chinese students who have studied English from the year dot and, in addition to that, lived here for the better part of a decade and their Chinese still far outstrips their English. I myself am tri-lingual, (although only fluent in one), and I believe that it enriches me and provides me with a different insight into my own language. Just remember: a language is NOT an oath of loyalty.

 

[Moo]

Immigrants, in my opinion, have a requirement and an obligation to learn the national language... bilingualism should not be allowed.

So do you speak Navaho or Sioux ITN

 

[Clark Kent]

In an interview with Melbourne's Neil Mitchell during the week Alexander Downer, man of the people, mentioned how he strolled around a suburban shopping centre for half an hour the previous day, and did not notice any cultural disharmony.

Then, in the next breath, noted how he DID see a woman (presumed) in a burkha. Gee, funny that - he was responding to a question re Howard's statement that he found the burkha mildly 'confronting'.

Mitchell's response was priceless: "In all my time in Melbourne I've never seen one person in a burkha, and you've seen one in a stroll yesterday" (paraphrasing).

Fair enough - my confusion - never seen a burka in Australia, despite living in probably our muslim capital.

Is it often actually worn out here?

 

[Monkster]

Wrong copernicus. Quebec, Canada is a perfect example of such chaos... bilingualism allows immigrants to delay learning language; a crutch! Better for them to learn the national language ASAP...a national language should not be compromised...it is a nation's identity... bilingualism makes the new language something to be avoided....a bad policy.

Which national (read. official) language would you like immigrants to Canada to learn? English or French?

 

[mantis]

I often see women in bhurka's in the area where I live, as it has a fairly large muslim population. I don't find them intimidating in the slightest, bloody hell our PM is a pussy.

 

[Mr Q]

Or Ireland?

Scotland (English/Scots Gaelic)
Spain (Catalan, Castilian, Galician, Basque)
Wales (English, Welsh)
South Africa (English, Afrikaans, Xhosa, at least nine other official)
Swizerland (French, Italian, German, Romansch)
China (Mandarin, Cantonese)
India (Hindi, English, Assamese, Urdu, Kannada, others)
Sri Lanka (Sinhalese, Tamil, English)
Singapore (English, Chinese, Malay)
Malaysia (Malay, Chinese)
Indonesia (many different languages)
France (French, Breton, Occitan, Basque)
Belgium (French, Dutch, German)

Probably about half the nations of the world when you get right down to it have large groups that speak different languages.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Scotland (English/Scots Gaelic)
... etc

Probably about half the nations of the world when you get right down to it have large groups that speak different languages.

Elaborated my point nicely, Q (Or it may have been B2003's point, but you get the idea).

 

[Mr Q]

Elaborated my point nicely, Q (Or it may have been B2003's point, but you get the idea).

Of course, I left a really obvious one off. Wonder if IntheNet can guess it?

 

[medusala]

You're contradicting yourself. If immigrants hold onto their mother-tongue then they will remain monolingual. We want them to become bilingual.
.

Not necessarily if they come from English speaking countries.

 

[Copernicus]

Wrong copernicus. Quebec, Canada is a perfect example of such chaos... bilingualism allows immigrants to delay learning language; a crutch! Better for them to learn the national language ASAP...a national language should not be compromised...it is a nation's identity... bilingualism makes the new language something to be avoided....a bad policy.

How do you propose that an immigrant from a non-english speaking country promptly forget their mother tongue the moment they set foot on their new, english-speaking shores? It's an impossibility. We want people to learn English, of course, but there's no way known we can stop them from speaking their home language. The best we can hope for is that they learn English well enough. I certainly don't encourage the adoption of multiple official languages in countries like the US and Australia, but we need to realise the reality that people are going to arrive fluent in a language other than English. It's not an easy language to learn.

 

[IntheNet]

How do you propose that an immigrant from a non-english speaking country promptly forget their mother tongue the moment they set foot on their new, english-speaking shores? It's an impossibility...

I never said it was easy but calm yourself with the "impossibility" rhetoric please; millions did it as yet one more effort upon landing at the New World's gate at Ellis Island. What I am pointing out is that any crutch along the road to total fluency of the nationalistic language gives immigrants a reason not to learn it. That is why total immerision is used to teach a foreign language successfully. So too must immigrants learn.

 

[Copernicus]

I never said it was easy but calm yourself with the "impossibility" rhetoric please; millions did it as yet one more effort upon landing at the New World's gate at Ellis Island. What I am pointing out is that any crutch along the road to total fluency of the nationalistic language gives immigrants a reason not to learn it. That is why total immerision is used to teach a foreign language successfully. So too must immigrants learn.

I suppose you would completely forget how to speak English were you to move to, say, China, right? Come on. It's not a crutch to say that immigrants will retain knowledge of their mother tongue, it's a given. It shouldn't stop them from learning the local language to the best of their ability, though. Those who arrived at Ellis Island were still able to communicate in their home tongue, I am sure. Just because they also learnt English doesn't mean they suddenly became monolingual.

Anyway, I realise immigrants need to learn the language of their adopted country, but it's a much to expect that it will be 1) easy, and 2) that they will simply drop their home language.